A few problems with ranked

[Paul]

Just wanted to point it out

1. Connection issues
2. Unbalanced weapon distribution among both teams
3. Unbalanced rank distribution

And a little question with this post I want to ask: Does jumping help with combat? Or only for certain weapons? Or with laggy connection only?

 

[97Stephen]

All of those problems are known and while annoying, unless you play in a squad we all just have to live with them. About your question, apparently jumping with a gun will cause your spread to increase. Some new players use jumping to try to make themselves harder to hit, but it doesn't really work on good players. This can throw your accuracy off though so it's not really recommended as a tactic, especially against chargers. Blasters do use jumping as a technique though I am not familiar with why. Jumping while flicking a roller will increase your range (I think). I hope that answers your question.

 

[Mateiüsthesquidwarrior]

@97Stephen pretty much addressed them all, but I would like to take this opportunity to point out that it wouldn't be hard for nintendo to create some sort of sorting mechanism regarding creating balanced teams. But then again there is something fun about never knowing exactly what weapons you'll be playing with/against.

 

[97Stephen]

Yeah, that's one thing I wish they would fix. I always shudder when I'm on a team with three chargers.

 

[Award]

I've found a sort of odd theme with matchmaking in general, but it's too predictable to be a coincidence. When I started playing sploosh in TW, I suddenly found myself on a team consisting of 3 splooshes, and an opposing team with 1 sploosh. Then when I started playing squiffer, I suddenly found myself on a team with 3 squiffers, and an opposing team with one squiffer. When I started playing around with forge pro, I found myself on a team with 3 forge pro's and an opposing team with one forge pro.

You see the pattern. I don't know if it's an overall pattern or if it's based on the "turf inked" metric with a given weapon, but for some reason it seems that they like pairing nearly mono-weapon (BUT a mix of variants, eg. forge pro with splat pro, 2 classic squiffers and a new squiffer, 2 neo splooshes and a sploosh) teams along with one matching opposing weapon. My theory is it's based on turf inked for players new to a weapon class, for some reason.

(Worst pairing was the 3 splooshes and a roller against 1 sploosh and 3 eliters. )

 

[GreenSpiny]

And a little question with this post I want to ask: Does jumping help with combat? Or only for certain weapons? Or with laggy connection only?

I've often thought about this!

To increase weapon spread, for inking
To throw off enemy aim (sometimes works)
To help weapons with large hitboxes and slow movement

Think blasters, rollers, and the dynamo. These weapons move slowly while shooting and have a low fire rate. Since their aim is more forgiving than shooters, they can afford to fly through the air, making them harder to hit but not messing up their own shots. Not to say this is optimal (as a blaster you want to land your precise one-shots if you can), but it helps. As a Dynamo, you should always be jumping.

The problem with jumping on all weapons is, it limits your movement afterward. When a splat bomb rolls under your feet and you're in midair, there's no swimming away.

 

[Las7]

Jump strafing is key if you want chargers and inkzookas to miss you. Just keep in mind that even S players have bad aim so jump strafing doesn't guarantee they'd miss you. Also don't bother trying to jump strife with any of the heavier weapons it only works on light weapons - even Gals aren't especially mobile in that regard.

 

[97Stephen]

Jump strafing is key if you want chargers and inkzookas to miss you. Just keep in mind that even S players have bad aim so jump strafing doesn't guarantee they'd miss you. Also don't bother trying to jump strife with any of the heavier weapons it only works on light weapons - even Gals aren't especially mobile in that regard.

Inkzookas maybe, but a very good charger can predict where you will land, making you a better target than if you didn't jump.

 

[Elecmaw]

Jump strafing is key if you want chargers and inkzookas to miss you. Just keep in mind that even S players have bad aim so jump strafing doesn't guarantee they'd miss you. Also don't bother trying to jump strife with any of the heavier weapons it only works on light weapons - even Gals aren't especially mobile in that regard.

Jumping locks you (more or less) in a set trajectory untill you land, meaning all the charger has to do in this scenario to align his pointer at where you're going to land and pop. This is why it's so dangerous falling to the center area in Moray Towers when there are chargers about- you can't move untill you land.
Swimming is far more effective, it's faster and less visible to chargers.

 

[Paul]

Yeah I can tell that... Maybe I'm just not good at hitting people in close range. There was this blaster jumping in my face and I was shooting him.

A few of my shots probably didn't go through since he jumped of something...

 

[Elecmaw]

2. Unbalanced weapon distribution among both teams

While i don't mind this and finding a workaround would be far more trouble than it's worth, i think the points system should be re-calculated depending on the loadouts of the teams. A team with 3 chargers opposed to a team with just one will have significant problems with pushing. If the other team has rollers for stopping pushes then things will just get more unfair for the team with 3 chargers, meaning if they lose ground it's practically over for them. And yet, you'll still lose the default points despite the fact there was a strong disadvantage to one team.

 

[97Stephen]

While i don't mind this and finding a workaround would be far more trouble than it's worth, i think the points system should be re-calculated depending on the loadouts of the teams. A team with 3 chargers opposed to a team with just one will have significant problems with pushing. If the other team has rollers for stopping pushes then things will just get more unfair for the team with 3 chargers, meaning if they lose ground it's practically over for them. And yet, you'll still lose the default points despite the fact there was a strong disadvantage to one team.

First, that's why you don't see many bad chargers, I'm not saying this is a good thing but it does set the bar high. Second, a team of three competent chargers can win, I have been beaten by one. I think my teammates were idiots but that's beside the point. I'll agree that they have a disadvantage, but balancing the teams would make it take longer to find a team, especially if you play a common weapon. I don't really think they should change the points. The problem I see is that it sets a bad precedent. If they do that, then we will have people running around saying that they were at a disadvantage cause they had a team of four rollers, and they should lose less points. The thing is any team that isn't well rounded could be considered at a "disadvantage". Being on a team with other chargers is a occupational hazard of being a charger, that may sound mean but in fairness a team of three chargers is pretty rare. I would lean more to team balancing than to point balancing, mostly because I don't like the direction that would put us in.

 

[Elecmaw]

First, that's why you don't see many bad chargers, I'm not saying this is a good thing but it does set the bar high. Second, a team of three competent chargers can win, I have been beaten by one. I think my teammates were idiots but that's beside the point. I'll agree that they have a disadvantage, but balancing the teams would make it take longer to find a team, especially if you play a common weapon. I don't really think they should change the points. The problem I see is that it sets a bad precedent. If they do that, then we will have people running around saying that they were at a disadvantage cause they had a team of four rollers, and they should lose less points. The thing is any team that isn't well rounded could be considered at a "disadvantage". Being on a team with other chargers is a occupational hazard of being a charger, that may sound mean but in fairness a team of three chargers is pretty rare. I would lean more to team balancing than to point balancing, mostly because I don't like the direction that would put us in.

Yes, a team of three chargers can win, but the odds are against them which is my point(Similar to how the game gives you a different point total if you play with/against different ranks). I don't imply that i want to balance teams out but instead give them (a slightly) different amount of points depending on what weapons your team had during the match, and that's only for drastic cases like 3-4 chargers in a single team.

 

[97Stephen]

Yes, a team of three chargers can win, but the odds are against them which is my point(Similar to how the game gives you a different point total if you play with/against different ranks). I don't imply that i want to balance teams out but instead give them (a slightly) different amount of points depending on what weapons your team had during the match, and that's only for drastic cases like 3-4 chargers in a single team.

I agree that the odds are against them, but how few points should they get? If they lose zero points why should they even try? By basically saying "well your probably going to lose" doesn't produce much initiative. Yes, if you end up on a team of chargers the odds are against you (on some maps) but it happens rarely enough that I don't want to start playing with points. More than one charger can give you a disadvantage, but than so can a lousy teammate. Both happen randomly, but the chargers are rarer, and two good chargers are better than two lousy teammates. I get what your saying, but I just don't think that changing the points is the way to do it. When playing with randoms there is always a risk involved. I play around A rank so the risk of a bad teammate is higher than that of three chargers. If you play at S ranks I can see how this would help you, but I consider that part of the risk of playing with randoms.

Note: I don't play charger and this has never happened to me, so I consider this very rare. Does this happen to you more often?

 

[Award]

My uninvited two (or three) cents: I agree with 97Stephen. Point adjustments can work but it can also lead to badly breaking things, and we don't want Splatoon to end up like a Blizzard game where every time the "fix" something they create a whole new more disastrous problem. We've seen the backlash on changing the splatfest 4x to 6x multiplier already (justified or no.)

Additionally in another thread yesterday we were talking about some odd matchmaking patterns I brought up that other people seem to be experiencing too with some weapons (or maybe turf inked-based) every time I pick certain weapons that are either less common, or that I've used very little, I find myself on teams of 3 of variations of the same weapon and one of the same on the opposing team. It's always the same pattern. 3 identical variants on my team, one variant on the other team. It seems intentional for whatever reason (or at least a systematic glitch.) (E.G. I choose squiffer, my team gets two other squiffers, mix & match classic/new. One on the other team. I choose sploosh, my team gets two other sploosh/neosploosh, enemy gets 1, etc.) I don't think they'd rejig the point system to rebalance weapon distributions they may well be doing intentionally. However if they were going to rebalance anything, I think tweaking the match making to NOT pair 3 of the same weapon would be the obvious way to go, especially since the recent patch shows Nintendo is open to tweaking/improving matchmaking now that there's enough players to not have dead lobbies, and it's ultimately just a more fun match to play for both sides.

Personally I'd rather wait a few seconds longer to get a properly matched team, than a total slapdash team destined to lose, especially in ranked when points are on the line. A properly balanced team means it's more likely the more skilled team wins, rather than RNG generated victories that can be upset only by very high skill. I think the bad match making is less a failure of Nintendo to properly match teams, and more a bi-product of low WiiU sales and low-to-date Splatoon sales madating poor matchmaking to keep a flow of matchmaking go at all. Now that Splatoon has a few million copies out there and a flood of new players will arrive in just a few days, I think they're starting to tighten the reigns on proper matchmaking little by little. I suspect we'll see better weapon pairings come along with "General improvements to game stability and playability" in a future 2.5.0.

. I play around A rank so the risk of a bad teammate is higher than that of three chargers.

How do you have high chance for bad players in A rank? I'd expect A rank players should all be very good. I haven't spent the time moving out of B yet and never have enough time to risk a losing streak, but I've found that most of the TW and splatfest opponents I have are far, far, tougher than any of the B & B+ players I've played against in ranked. I assume they're all A and above. You can't tell me I've been playing mostly S+ ranks in Turf Wars! If that were the case I'd just go blast my way to S today :)

I don't play charger and this has never happened to me, so I consider this very rare. Does this happen to you more often?

It's not charger specific, but it does happen often. I'm not sure if it happens with chargers because the are popular, or because they are not popular, or if it's individual user specific based on using a seldom used or personally little used weapon (plus an unlucky person that gets stuck with that group.) Pain is a team of 3 splooshes and a roller against a team of 3 e-liters and a sploosh. If it's tied to turf inked at all, then it'll be more common for people who switch around and try a lot of weapons than people who always main the same thing. I've found that after I get stuck with the trio of pain for a while and keep using the weapon, it seems to stop. Maybe it's a Nintendo hazing ritual for new weapon users? :):
(original discussion that doesn't cover much more than this here:)
http://squidboards.com/threads/worst-teammates-ever.14580/page-2#post-137573

 

[97Stephen]

@Award I don't mean bad per se as not very good. Those people who don't push or who die a lot. I have gotten a lot more of those than a team of the same weapon. The difference between a team of chargers and a team of other weapons is as Elecmaw said, a team of chargers will have problems pushing, that a team of almost any other weapon won't have, or at least not be as bad. I think that the devs could patch in something to prevent to many of one weapon type on one team. The thing in my mind is that they haven't, so either they haven't had a reason to or there is a reason not to. If it's the former I believe that if enough people spoke out they would change it. It's funny how those teams happen to you, it's never happened to me. Do you play when the weapons first come out and everybody is using them?

 

[Award]

I don't mean bad per se as not very good. Those people who don't push or who die a lot. I have gotten a lot more of those than a team of the same weapon.

That sounds bad per se. :) Not that I'm not equally guilty more often than I'd prefer to be. I'd think (hope?) At A rank it's less a matter of players who aren't good in general, and more a matter of players who are just having a bad round or two, or players who, like me are too inconsistent - I can do very well or very bad on different days - that's my biggest problem. Or a group of uncoordinated players with very different ideas on approaching the map and therefore end up getting killed single file. I'd also think that would be a lot rarer at A rank in SZ & TC and more an issue in RM where overarching strategies are critical - but a team with no strategy is in better shape than a team with for unrelated strategies :) I'm just hoping that A is a lot better than B where it pretty much equates to "If I don't win it alone, we're going to lose (and the team might not locate the objective before the timer runs out.)" :(

. I think that the devs could patch in something to prevent to many of one weapon type on one team. The thing in my mind is that they haven't, so either they haven't had a reason to or there is a reason not to. If it's the former I believe that if enough people spoke out they would change it.

I think it does come down to 2 main probabilities as to why they haven't corrected the distribution:
1: The bad weapon distribution is intentional. The repeating trios almost seem that way, though I find it hard to imagine why that would be.
2: Insufficient player base to sustain functioning lobbies if it were too choosy. I think it's this one, and I think that problem is starting to improve. The fact that they finally just now changed matchmaking to try to match similar players more often in TW rather than the entirely random rooms shows that they're working on improving it. I also noticed for the first few days after 2.4, I noticed ZERO difference in matchmaking. Sunday night and last night, however, I started seeing levels under 40 in my (lv32) lobby for the first time in a while. And a mix of JP and Western players. Until now I've been playing almost exclusively JP players. My point is: They could have already rebalanced weapon matching in 2.4 under "general improvements" along with the TW matchmaking. We should pay attention over the next few days and see if there's a decrease in triplicates. If they didn't yet, I think they will if there's chatter about it.

It's funny how those teams happen to you, it's never happened to me. Do you play when the weapons first come out and everybody is using them?

No, in fact the only weapon I did that with was the Zink Mini a week or two ago and I think I saw less triplicates that day or two than with things like sploosh and squiffer that I tried long after they came out. I dont' think Zink was nearly as interesting to people as the crazy sloshing machine - that night EVERYBODY had one. I really like the Zink actually.

Not sure if 2.4 (after the 3 day delay I saw before improved TW mach making too effect (maybe?)) managed to fix the issue or not, but if you want to try it, go pick a weapon you haven't played much of and/or seems to be uncommon. It may (or may not) need to be one you personally haven't put much if any time into yet, though. Squiffers, Pros, Bamboozlers, Splooshes, Jet Squelcher seem like they experience this easily. Not sure about hydra, I played two rounds with it and it didn't click with me, but I'd bet it's a good candidate too. You probably won't see the problem in your first game, but it starts showing up within a few, sticks around for a while, then they might put the pair of same weapons on the other side for a while.

It could be purely coincidence, but it's too numerically similar to be a pure coincidence, (3v1 same class of weapons you rarely see 1 or especially 2 in the same lobby let alone 4.)

 

[VideoGameVirtuoso]

Just wanted to point it out

1. Connection issues
2. Unbalanced weapon distribution among both teams
3. Unbalanced rank distribution

And a little question with this post I want to ask: Does jumping help with combat? Or only for certain weapons? Or with laggy connection only?

I do not have any connection issues when playing Ranked Battles, since the release of it on Splatoon. I only get them during Splatfest, which is strange.

I am not sure what you mean by unbalanced weapon distribution. Whenever I play in Ranked Battles, team compositions do not stack many weapons unless there are a lot of Splattershots or Octoshots, in which case, both teams have them distributed as evenly as possible. They are also just a popular weapon to see in solo ranked.

There have been a lot of patches for matchmaking, which includes the latest version, 2.4.0. I have not experienced any poor matchmaking in terms of uneven ranks. Since the new update, I have not even had one player one lower rank below me.

Jumping helps with certain weapons, such as rollers. Blasters also benefit from it because the blast radius is more easier to maximize, and it allows for a different trajectory of the shot. Some weapons do not benefit from it and instead increase their spread, such as the Splattershot Jr.

 

[seakingtheonixpected]

I wish match making for ranked was similar to Splatfest matchmaking. It would be nice to be able to stick with teams that make good comps rather than wondering if all 3 chargers in the match are going to end up on the same team if you stay.

 

[97Stephen]

This last Splatfest I had an interesting experience. Both my team and the enemy had almost exactly the same weapon distribution. I'm not sure if this was a fluke or if this was the new matchmaking coming into play. If it is it would be an answer to one of these problems. Has anyone else seen anything like this? @Award I'm definitely guilty of bad days so don't feel to bad about it. I think your right and it is probably the second which makes the future brighter. I've used almost all those weapons and never had it happen, maybe it's a bug on your end.