Splatoon 2 Dualie Squelchers' viability

[CreeperFishStix]

The title of this thread is pretty self-explanatory, so I'm just gonna jump right into it.

As of right now, the Dualie Squelchers have no place in the competitive scene, and don't do well in solo queue, either. It's kit does not support the weapon at all, that being Point Sensor sub and Tenta Missiles special. The Point Sensor is not that useful, even though it received a buff going from Splatoon to Splatoon 2 (that buff being time active after landing/hitting an object). The reason it still isn't good is because it doesn't have a guarantee to locate anyone, as whoever gets located has to be within the radius of the landed point sensor, and the location time is relatively short. Not only that, the Tenta Missiles are arguably one of the worst specials in the game, as they can be avoided by moving the left-stick in any direction away from the landing missiles and any objects.

Despite all of this, the main weapon itself is the best over all other dualies. It has the longest range in its class, and has a dodge roll unlike any of its brothers. When you dodge roll, on any other dualie, you stop in place, and your reticles center. You have to wait a certain amount of time until you are allowed to move again, and once you start moving, your reticles separate. With the Dualie Squelchers, when you go into a dodge roll, your reticles still center, but you are allowed to move freely after they center. Instead of a movement cool-down, it is replaced with a time limit on how long your reticles are centered. However, if you roll, stop, and then try to move, your reticles will separate normally.

It may seem like I'm just giving you a bunch of statistics as to why one weapon isn't good, but this thread serves another purpose, and that purpose is to talk about a weapon that hasn't even come out yet, the Custom Dualie Squelchers. Since some people don't want to know about a weapon until it's actually confirmed for release, I'll put this spoiler button below. Continue if you wanna know more:

Spoiler: CDS viability

There is no certainty on the kit of this weapon, and any aspect of this weapon has a possibility to get nerfed or buffed, but as of right now, its kit is Splat Bomb sub and Ink Armor special. This kit suits the main weapon so much better than the original, as it can force people out of an area with damage and the possibility of death instead of location, and a special that is in-arguably one of the best specials in the game. It breaks when damage dealt to it reaches 30 or higher, but it can absorb up to 80. The main weapon also has a great painting power, which can help it charge special quickly, as well as the previously mentioned "special" dodge roll. Overall, the weapon looks to be a better N-Zap 85, with a better kit, greater range, and superior quirks/gimmicks.

With all of this in mind, there is not a place for Dualie Squelchers in competitive, and can barely hold its own in solo queue, unless it gets a godly buff, kit swap, or the release of the previously mentioned Custom version. This is just my opinion, but at least I backed it up with some facts and statistics. As always, you can throw in your two cents worth, but please back it up in a similar fashion, and prepare for a debate. I might not agree with you.

 

[Dessgeega]

What facts and statistics? You just talked about the weapon and your opinions of the kit mixed with some basic knowledge of how it works. HERE'S some actual statistics for you:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...tNMKwNE0tRea_vHf6cavl8KLI/edit#gid=1991298169

For a weapon that has no place, it sure is placing fairly well in League results, isn't it? The Dualie Squelchers are perfectly viable as a support weapon and the kit aids it to this end. It's not as ridiculous as the N-Zap or Splattershot but it does it's job well.

People love to talk about how Tenta Missiles are "so bad" because you can walk away, but here's the thing - you have to walk away. You HAVE to move. If you don't, you will die. Tenta Missiles are fantastic for flushing out entrenched enemies, timed well with advancing allies can result in game-winning pushes as the enemy is forced out of a comfortable position. In competitive play this can also be used for call-outs, as you can tell your teammates with voice chat where the enemy is and where they're going.

Likewise, point sensors have plenty of utility. Slap on 1 main 3 subs of Sub Power Up and they track foes for around 14-15 seconds, an eternity in this game. Point sensors can help slayer allies get kills, lead your sting ray wielders right to the foe, and shut down ninja squid users. Add in some Ink Saver Sub and it becomes very easy to ensure that enemies aren't getting away.

And what do both this sub and special have in common? They work best coordinating with allies. If you're a lone wolf who does your own thing, yeah, you'd think less of these, but people who actually try to work with their team be it randos or friends can achieve stellar results with the Dualie Squelchers.

Edit: And this comment from Ansible is gold.

 

[Slushious]

Not to mention, you can walk away from literally every special in the game....

 

[Dark Sage Walker]

@Dessgeega has the right idea. I love the Dualie Squelchers, and it's because I see the value in a weapon that does support. Provides intel. If you are good with communication, this is incredibly valuable information to have and to share with your teammates! Not everything can or should be based on how well it works in solo queue. Try them for yourself and see what you think.

 

[thundasi]

I am so glad you made this thread. If not, you would still think DS were garbage. @Dessgeega laided it out perfectly. Utility for days and days, buffed point sensors and an good user will keep atleast 2 of your teammates lit up for more than half the game. Almost NO ONE runs enough Cold blooded to stop them. the tenta missiles also keep their sensors up and are fire and forget so you can start rebuilding your special after firing. Throwing point sensors is so underrated that they are super effective. Inks well shoots better, and rolls like a boss?

 

[CreeperFishStix]

I said I might not agree with you, and here you go proving my point.

HERE'S some actual statistics for you:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...tNMKwNE0tRea_vHf6cavl8KLI/edit#gid=1991298169

Exactly how outdated is this document? I would expect Forge Splattershot Pro to rank higher than 11th overall with the current meta game. Brining up League data like this is a great way to get your point across, but in this situation, it doesn't. Dualie Squelchers are placed 30th overall from whenever this data was collected. It is not used nearly as much as many other weapons, many of them being part of the "meta", but also ones you wouldn't expect to see, such as, but not limited to, Splattershot Pro at 10th, Dynamo Roller at 22nd, and even Carbon Roller at 25th. These weapons were cursed with bad to mediocre kits that don't blend well with their weapons' zest, much like the Dualie Squelchers.

People love to talk about how Tenta Missiles are "so bad" because you can walk away, but here's the thing - you have to walk away. You HAVE to move. If you don't, you will die. Tenta Missiles are fantastic for flushing out entrenched enemies, timed well with advancing allies can result in game-winning pushes as the enemy is forced out of a comfortable position. In competitive play this can also be used for call-outs, as you can tell your teammates with voice chat where the enemy is and where they're going.

More often than not, when people are "entrenched" in a defensive position, there is always an option to push to the side or backwards. If timed right, the player will push to a location other than where they need to be standing, let the missiles land, and move back into position. Sure, you might now know where that player is, but if they are competent enough, they will have some sort of plan to deal with overextending enemies. The majority of your "back-lines" weapons used in competitive are great at punishing people who decide to step too far into enemy territory. There are also options to move to another location when pressured by enemies on most maps. Using the missiles in this way would be a great idea if there weren't already options to deal with and ultimately replace this system.

Likewise, point sensors have plenty of utility. Slap on 1 main 3 subs of Sub Power Up and they track foes for around 14-15 seconds, an eternity in this game. Point sensors can help slayer allies get kills, lead your sting ray wielders right to the foe, and shut down ninja squid users. Add in some Ink Saver Sub and it becomes very easy to ensure that enemies aren't getting away.

You sure are putting a lot of resources into your point sensors here. Using one main and three subs of Sub Power Up has already used up one third of your abilities, and adding some Ink Saver Sub increases your ability usage even more! Using that much of any combination of abilities for just one aspect of your weapon is a waste. Especially sense there are abilities that can counter and replace point sensors. That counter ability being Cold-Blooded. It takes away location time from Point Sensors, Ink Mines, and the ability Haunt. The only reason you don't see people using Cold-Blooded is because almost no one uses location tactics such as these, so there's no reason to add it into your builds, as they will just take up space.

Speaking of Haunt, that ability replaces Point Sensors for people who die a lot. But there's the kicker, "die a lot". It only locates people that killed you. However, this is not where the replacement abilities end. There is another ability that works as a location device, and that is Thermal Ink. When an enemy is hit by ink from your main weapon, excluding indirect hits from blaster-type weapons, the outline of the enemy you hit appears on your map when they hidden behind an object. Of course, some weapons work better with this ability, and the same can be said about Haunt. You still cannot deny the usefulness of these abilities.

And what do both this sub and special have in common? They work best coordinating with allies.

This is true, but that's ALL they're good for. The reason i'm arguing that Dualie Squelchers aren't as good as you think they are is because they only fulfill one role: supportive location. A "good" weapon can fill multiple roles in a team.

Take Custom Jet Squelcher for example. It paints well for its long range, and has Burst Bomb sub and Sting Ray special. This gives the weapon a lot of options, but it mostly fits into the support/defence category. Support, because it paints the map for the offense players to push in, Burst Bombs to help immobilize enemies, finish off kills, and pressure people out and away from defensive positions, and sting ray to eliminate unsuspecting and ill-prepared enemies. Combine this with the previously mentioned Thermal Ink, and it can even play slightly offensive with an added supportive location role. It also plays a great defense, because it can cut off pushing points, create and enforce difficult choke holds, and punish overextending enemies with relative ease. That is a lot of uses for just one weapon.

With all of this in mind, why would you use the Dualies Squelchers, with just a supportive location roll, over a weapon like Custom Jet, one that carries multiple, more direct, and helpful roles?

 

[The Salamander King]

@Dessgeega has the right idea. I love the Dualie Squelchers, and it's because I see the value in a weapon that does support. Provides intel. If you are good with communication, this is incredibly valuable information to have and to share with your teammates! Not everything can or should be based on how well it works in solo queue. Try them for yourself and see what you think.

I am so glad you made this thread. If not, you would still think DS were garbage. @Dessgeega laided it out perfectly. Utility for days and days, buffed point sensors and an good user will keep atleast 2 of your teammates lit up for more than half the game. Almost NO ONE runs enough Cold blooded to stop them. the tenta missiles also keep their sensors up and are fire and forget so you can start rebuilding your special after firing. Throwing point sensors is so underrated that they are super effective. Inks well shoots better, and rolls like a boss?

Fish has been playing Dualie Squelchers on my team for the past 3 months. He knows more about the weapon than most people. He's not saying it's a bad weapon, very few people would, he's saying that there are better options. Think of how the TTek compares to the vanilla Splattershot. The TTek is a good weapon, but it's original version just functions better at most things, mostly outclassing it.

Let's look at the Dualie Squelcher and what it would do in a team comp.
DS works well as a support weapon with its excellent painting and Missle Spam. I have found this to be quite annoying when fighting Fish in private battles. This is the weapons greatest strength, but there are weapons that do it better. Take the Mini Splatling, for example. It can do everything the DS does but to a greater extent. You lose a little bit of range, but it paints better, kills faster, and can support itself better with Burst Bombs.

The loss of Point Sensors might annoy you, but here is a nice way to somewhat nullify that

Spoiler: God-Tier Strat

Throw a Burst Bomb and open your map. At the very minimum, you'll be able to see them for 1.5 seconds, and 90% of the time it'll be much longer than that.

Here are my sources: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WnSDbSja9lar_VHZ89r_ix2mFk1KYsony2k71xtZDBc/edit#gid=0

That's all I have to say.
Don't kill me.

 

[Goolloom]

Exactly how outdated is this document? ... Brining up League data like this is a great way to get your point across, but in this situation, it doesn't.

It isn't. This list is constantly updated to get the latest results, and I am not pulling that out of nowhere, it's in the ''README'' section of the doc.
''Stats are gathered from the SplatNet Api using the top 100 league results anyone can access via the mobile app
Every two hours Nintendo posts the top 100 League Team (4) and Pairs (2) by league score
Data is retrieved from the Api every 2 hours to get the latest results
Every week a new tab is added summarizing the usage for the All regions and Team endpoints
Dates are cut off according to UTC time''
So you would think in this case using this data is relevant to the argument, right?

More often than not, when people are "entrenched" in a defensive position, there is always an option to push to the side or backwards. If timed right, the player will push to a location other than where they need to be standing, let the missiles land, and move back into position.

Getting people to move backwards during a push is exactly what the pushing teams wants, so they can move forwards and get the extra control of the map. Tenta Missles are used for that, displacing the defending opponents to let your allies move in and take care of them, or the missles makes someone overextend and get killed themselves. Getting someone out of position in this game is invaluable, since you are most likely getting more map control by doing so.

Sure, you might now know where that player is, but if they are competent enough, they will have some sort of plan to deal with overextending enemies.

You sure are putting a lot of resources into your point sensors here. Using one main and three subs of Sub Power Up has already used up one third of your abilities, and adding some Ink Saver Sub increases your ability usage even more! Using that much of any combination of abilities for just one aspect of your weapon is a waste. Especially sense there are abilities that can counter and replace point sensors. That counter ability being Cold-Blooded. It takes away location time from Point Sensors, Ink Mines, and the ability Haunt. The only reason you don't see people using Cold-Blooded is because almost no one uses location tactics such as these, so there's no reason to add it into your builds, as they will just take up space.

I'll say it again but knowing where the enemy is exactly, is invaluable as well. It makes them predictable.
Sure you can counter it with Cold Blooded, but a better reason why Cold Blooded is never used is more because it is extremely situational and it ends up being a complete waste of abilities, since, as you said, not much people use tracking tactics like that.
But that brings up my point. That's exactly why people use Sub Power Up on point sensors. No one uses Cold Blooded regularly, so you are pretty much guaranteed to get the extra long tracking time, and Sub Up gives it extra range and velocity, which is a nice thing to have here.

Speaking of Haunt, that ability replaces Point Sensors for people who die a lot. But there's the kicker, "die a lot". It only locates people that killed you. However, this is not where the replacement abilities end. There is another ability that works as a location device, and that is Thermal Ink. When an enemy is hit by ink from your main weapon, excluding indirect hits from blaster-type weapons, the outline of the enemy you hit appears on your map when they hidden behind an object. Of course, some weapons work better with this ability, and the same can be said about Haunt. You still cannot deny the usefulness of these abilities.

Haunt and Thermal does not replace point sensors at all, since the tracking is only for you, the player that died, or hit someone with your main weapon. The tracking is a subtle silhouette that appears when they are hidden behind things in kid form and that they are far enough for it to work in the first place.
The silhouette does not appear if they stay hidden in their ink in Squid form, too. People generally find it to be very unreliable because of that, and would rather use abilities that work most of the time, and more importantly, something that doesn't give them an extra thing to look out for, since the silhouette is easy to miss is the heat of the battle. Point Sensor tracking makes a very audible sound cue, it is very easy to notice and there is a line that connects you to whoever is marked, making it extremely reliable, much more than Haunt and Thermal Ink will ever be. Not that Thermal Ink or Haunt are useless, they're just outclassed in this current state.

On a side note... Salamander kinda mentionned it here

Throw a Burst Bomb and open your map. At the very minimum, you'll be able to see them for 1.5 seconds, and 90% of the time it'll be much longer than that.

People who take enough damage show up on the map for your team, so you can use that to your adavantage. When you call out that someone is really hurt, you can track them with the map, but you don't even need Haunt or Thermal Ink for that to happen.

Take Custom Jet Squelcher for example. It paints well for its long range, and has Burst Bomb sub and Sting Ray special. This gives the weapon a lot of options, but it mostly fits into the support/defence category. Support, because it paints the map for the offense players to push in, Burst Bombs to help immobilize enemies, finish off kills, and pressure people out and away from defensive positions, and sting ray to eliminate unsuspecting and ill-prepared enemies. Combine this with the previously mentioned Thermal Ink, and it can even play slightly offensive with an added supportive location role. It also plays a great defense, because it can cut off pushing points, create and enforce difficult choke holds, and punish overextending enemies with relative ease. That is a lot of uses for just one weapon.

If you have the Dualies Squelchers though, you also paint really well for a long range weapon albeit is has a little less range, it paints better than the Jet overall, and it does fit the Support and Defense roles well enough. Dualies Squelcher's amazing mobility can give it the edge in combat situations, and the kit makes it extremely good at harrassing opponents. Being marked with Point Sensor effectively prevents the enemy team from making any kind of flanks and limits their options, combined with the Tenta Missles, the enemy will be moving out of position, limiting them even further when the special is going off, which happens rather often with this weapon's painting capabilites. The Dualies Squelchers, like any other longer ranged weapon, is also good at cutting off pushes and holding choke points.
I don't think the Dualie Squelchers vs the Custom Jet is a good comparison since they play different roles altogether. One is focused on limiting the opponent's options (à la debuff) while the other is more geared towards more aggressive play with a kit that is better suited for combat support, taking hits at enemies to make it easier for everyone else.

Take the Mini Splatling, for example. It can do everything the DS does but to a greater extent. You lose a little bit of range, but it paints better, kills faster, and can support itself better with Burst Bombs.

I don't think the Mini does everything the Dualies Squelchers does but better. There's no way the Mini harasses the enemy team as well as the Dualie Squelchers, since they have less range, less mobility and lack of Point sensors.
I have to say, it does paint better overall and is often more reliable at killing, since it has Burst bombs, a very fast fire rate and less RNG than the Dualie Squechers two reticles, though that can be somewhat mitigated with the Dualie's rolls.
Again, the Mini Splatling and the Dualie Squelchers have different roles. The Mini will be more focused on getting every corner of the map painted and can fill the spot for getting kills, while the Squelchers will, of course, be annoying to deal with, with that mobility and the kit and everything I have mentionned above.

 

[Saber]

@The Salamander King
Okay I get where you can be coming from, but you aren't measuring the full potential of the weapon, as a weapom analyst and this being one of my mains since it came into the game.

Here is what I have to say
Firstoff most of you are classifying the DS as a support weapon, but it's main role is a controller
Aka. It's job is to control the flow of battle.
The DS can easily cover lots of turf, keep an eye on the enemy and keep enemies moving with it's mobility, and tentamissles. Plus it can play lockdown, keeping enmies out of key areas of the map. TRUE other weapons can do this but I am just pointing out that the DS is more than just a support.

Plus the weapons you compare it to the mini splatling well you are not calculating in rng, the extra mobilty you get from the dodge roll and slide. Making it a flawed comparison, the vanilla duelies would be a better comparison since it again does the same things but has a slightly better ttk and can be more aggressive than the DS

You also mention the jet squelcher, and yes this weapon is more viability in it's kit and thst is a grest point, but the squlcher has that kit built towards long range continuous pressure, the DS kits are built around pressure via forcing enemies to keep on their toes.

Again this weapon isn't without fault, it can't handle close range pressure, and it's slow ttk and utlitly (at times) compared to the splattershot pro and a .96 gal.
But it is still a viable option and a threat in the hands of a good player even in comp.

 

[The Salamander King]

It isn't. This list is constantly updated to get the latest results, and I am not pulling that out of nowhere, it's in the ''README'' section of the doc.
''Stats are gathered from the SplatNet Api using the top 100 league results anyone can access via the mobile app
Every two hours Nintendo posts the top 100 League Team (4) and Pairs (2) by league score
Data is retrieved from the Api every 2 hours to get the latest results
Every week a new tab is added summarizing the usage for the All regions and Team endpoints
Dates are cut off according to UTC time''
So you would think in this case using this data is relevant to the argument, right?


Getting people to move backwards during a push is exactly what the pushing teams wants, so they can move forwards and get the extra control of the map. Tenta Missles are used for that, displacing the defending opponents to let your allies move in and take care of them, or the missles makes someone overextend and get killed themselves. Getting someone out of position in this game is invaluable, since you are most likely getting more map control by doing so.



I'll say it again but knowing where the enemy is exactly, is invaluable as well. It makes them predictable.
Sure you can counter it with Cold Blooded, but a better reason why Cold Blooded is never used is more because it is extremely situational and it ends up being a complete waste of abilities, since, as you said, not much people use tracking tactics like that.
But that brings up my point. That's exactly why people use Sub Power Up on point sensors. No one uses Cold Blooded regularly, so you are pretty much guaranteed to get the extra long tracking time, and Sub Up gives it extra range and velocity, which is a nice thing to have here.


Haunt and Thermal does not replace point sensors at all, since the tracking is only for you, the player that died, or hit someone with your main weapon. The tracking is a subtle silhouette that appears when they are hidden behind things in kid form and that they are far enough for it to work in the first place.
The silhouette does not appear if they stay hidden in their ink in Squid form, too. People generally find it to be very unreliable because of that, and would rather use abilities that work most of the time, and more importantly, something that doesn't give them an extra thing to look out for, since the silhouette is easy to miss is the heat of the battle. Point Sensor tracking makes a very audible sound cue, it is very easy to notice and there is a line that connects you to whoever is marked, making it extremely reliable, much more than Haunt and Thermal Ink will ever be. Not that Thermal Ink or Haunt are useless, they're just outclassed in this current state.

On a side note... Salamander kinda mentionned it here

People who take enough damage show up on the map for your team, so you can use that to your adavantage. When you call out that someone is really hurt, you can track them with the map, but you don't even need Haunt or Thermal Ink for that to happen.


If you have the Dualies Squelchers though, you also paint really well for a long range weapon albeit is has a little less range, it paints better than the Jet overall, and it does fit the Support and Defense roles well enough. Dualies Squelcher's amazing mobility can give it the edge in combat situations, and the kit makes it extremely good at harrassing opponents. Being marked with Point Sensor effectively prevents the enemy team from making any kind of flanks and limits their options, combined with the Tenta Missles, the enemy will be moving out of position, limiting them even further when the special is going off, which happens rather often with this weapon's painting capabilites. The Dualies Squelchers, like any other longer ranged weapon, is also good at cutting off pushes and holding choke points.
I don't think the Dualie Squelchers vs the Custom Jet is a good comparison since they play different roles altogether. One is focused on limiting the opponent's options (à la debuff) while the other is more geared towards more aggressive play with a kit that is better suited for combat support, taking hits at enemies to make it easier for everyone else.


I don't think the Mini does everything the Dualies Squelchers does but better. There's no way the Mini harasses the enemy team as well as the Dualie Squelchers, since they have less range, less mobility and lack of Point sensors.
I have to say, it does paint better overall and is often more reliable at killing, since it has Burst bombs, a very fast fire rate and less RNG than the Dualie Squechers two reticles, though that can be somewhat mitigated with the Dualie's rolls.
Again, the Mini Splatling and the Dualie Squelchers have different roles. The Mini will be more focused on getting every corner of the map painted and can fill the spot for getting kills, while the Squelchers will, of course, be annoying to deal with, with that mobility and the kit and everything I have mentionned above.

A few things here:
1. An enemy will show up on your map whenever they have any of your color ink on them. Since it takes 1.5 seconds of sitting in your ink to start healing, you will be tracked for a minimum of 1.5 seconds. The Burst Bombs do 60 damage on a direct though, so it will take longer to heal, making the amount of time an enemy is located on your map quite a bit longer. In competitive, you will be in a voice chat with your teammates, so quickly popping open the map and calling out the enemy's position functions very similarly to being hit by a sensor.

2. I'd actually say that the Mini is much better at harassment than DS. The Burst Bombs are amazing at pressuring and harassing at mid-long range, and the main purpose of the missiles is the same sort of thing. DS only has Sensors, which offer no painting and little pressuring, and the same missiles, which it builds slower than the Mini.

3. The Mini's movement speed is actually better than the DS's. The Mini has a firing run speed of .8 units per frame, while the DS is at .72 units per frame. Run speed also scales better on Mini, giving you more speed per ability slot. An argument could be made for its dodge roll, so I won;t try and push this one.

That's all I have for now, here are my sources.https://loadout.ink/en-us/#0000000000000000000000000

 

[ThatOneGuy]

First things first, @Dessgeega and @Goolloom said it all.

The Dualie Squelchers are not weapons of mass destruction, they are the pinnacle of support and harassment in this game. With their impressive range, painting ability, mobility, and with it's kit to extend it's harassment even further. This weapon will constantly be in the back of the fight, rooting on the bloodshed with it's bag of tricks.

And if an attacker wants to approach it, if they are noticed, they will be unsuccessful in chasing it down. As it can easily move in enemy ink with it's dodge roll, because it doesn't lock it in place. Only two other weapons in the game can do this. The Octobrush and the Inkbrush, but even then, they don't have half the range of the dualie squelchers. A weapon like a blaster simply cannot pin this weapon down with indirects as the dualie squelcher player can easily dodge roll backwards to avoid it.

Spoiler: Actual Gameplay footage of a Dualie Squelcher escaping a Blaster

For real though, this weapon cannot simply be replaced. Bad weapons in this game (The E-Liter 4k, The Carbon Roller, Inkbrush, etc.) Are replaced by weapons that simply outclass them in all perspectives.

He's not saying it's a bad weapon, very few people would, he's saying that there are better options. Think of how the TTek compares to the vanilla Splattershot. The TTek is a good weapon, but it's original version just functions better at most things, mostly outclassing it.

Unfortunately, no. Your friend said:

As of right now, the Dualie Squelchers have no place in the competitive scene

That's about the worst situation a weapon can get into in the competitive scene. "No place" indicates that it's literally unusable right now or that it's completely replaced by other weapons. I'm pretty sure he's saying that it's a horrid weapon if he's saying there's no point in using them or saying that they have no place in this metagame.

It's role is a weapon that can function as an anchor supporting the team, however it can move freely as well. No weapon in the game can do both roles remotely as well.

The mini splatling? Covers turf better, but it can't anchor without the range and it can't just roll out of danger whenever it wants.

H-3? It has the same kit and better killing potential, but the slow rate of fire is unreliable for harassment and it's pretty slow.

Rapid Pro? Sure it can get people behind cover with even more range, but it can't move as fast and it can't paint nearly as well as the dualie squelchers.

Jet Squelchers? More range, and more accurate, but they don't paint as well and they can't drift out of a situation quickly.

Inkbrush? Sure it has a nice escape, but the range is awful and it's even worse than the dualie squelchers in a fight.

Octobrush? Nice escape with decent combat abilities, but the range is still not there to play an anchor and neither is the painting.

I could go down the entire weapons list, but I can't find one weapon that simply outclasses the dualie squelchers in every aspect. There isn't one weapon where I could just say "Hey use x weapon over the dualie squelchers, they're better in every single way." I could say that argument for the E-Liter 4k. It's range is barely worth the long charge time, as I can get just about the same range with a faster charge time and a better kit with the vanilla splat charger. The Dualie Squelchers just aren't in that position. They're not explicit "meta", but they're far from useless, letting them become viable.

 

[Lonely_Dolphin]

What makes you think the weapon doesn't do well in solo? Not only do I get great results with it, but I've seen plenty of other players performing well with it too. Honestly I think this weapon is my next favorite after Sloshers, and even after the Custom comes out I think I'll still prefer the vanilla. I just love practically always knowing where the enemy is!

 

[The Salamander King]

@The Salamander King
Okay I get where you can be coming from, but you aren't measuring the full potential of the weapon, as a weapom analyst and this being one of my mains since it came into the game.

Here is what I have to say
Firstoff most of you are classifying the DS as a support weapon, but it's main role is a controller
Aka. It's job is to control the flow of battle.
The DS can easily cover lots of turf, keep an eye on the enemy and keep enemies moving with it's mobility, and tentamissles. Plus it can play lockdown, keeping enmies out of key areas of the map. TRUE other weapons can do this but I am just pointing out that the DS is more than just a support.

Plus the weapons you compare it to the mini splatling well you are not calculating in rng, the extra mobilty you get from the dodge roll and slide. Making it a flawed comparison, the vanilla duelies would be a better comparison since it again does the same things but has a slightly better ttk and can be more aggressive than the DS

You also mention the jet squelcher, and yes this weapon is more viability in it's kit and thst is a grest point, but the squlcher has that kit built towards long range continuous pressure, the DS kits are built around pressure via forcing enemies to keep on their toes.

Again this weapon isn't without fault, it can't handle close range pressure, and it's slow ttk and utlitly (at times) compared to the splattershot pro and a .96 gal.
But it is still a viable option and a threat in the hands of a good player even in comp.

Based on that logic, should I be able to compare the Aersopray and Splattershot Pro, just because they control the same? The Splat Dualies and the Dualie Squelchers don't play anything alike, with the much more offensive Splat Dualies playing much more like a Splattershot than a long range shooter like DS is.

Also, support is almost identical to the "controller" class you talk about.

 

[The Salamander King]

First things first, @Dessgeega and @Goolloom said it all.

The Dualie Squelchers are not weapons of mass destruction, they are the pinnacle of support and harassment in this game. With their impressive range, painting ability, mobility, and with it's kit to extend it's harassment even further. This weapon will constantly be in the back of the fight, rooting on the bloodshed with it's bag of tricks.

And if an attacker wants to approach it, if they are noticed, they will be unsuccessful in chasing it down. As it can easily move in enemy ink with it's dodge roll, because it doesn't lock it in place. Only two other weapons in the game can do this. The Octobrush and the Inkbrush, but even then, they don't have half the range of the dualie squelchers. A weapon like a blaster simply cannot pin this weapon down with indirects as the dualie squelcher player can easily dodge roll backwards to avoid it.

Spoiler: Actual Gameplay footage of a Dualie Squelcher escaping a Blaster

For real though, this weapon cannot simply be replaced. Bad weapons in this game (The E-Liter 4k, The Carbon Roller, Inkbrush, etc.) Are replaced by weapons that simply outclass them in all perspectives.


Unfortunately, no. Your friend said:


That's about the worst situation a weapon can get into in the competitive scene. "No place" indicates that it's literally unusable right now or that it's completely replaced by other weapons. I'm pretty sure he's saying that it's a horrid weapon if he's saying there's no point in using them or saying that they have no place in this metagame.

It's role is a weapon that can function as an anchor supporting the team, however it can move freely as well. No weapon in the game can do both roles remotely as well.

The mini splatling? Covers turf better, but it can't anchor without the range and it can't just roll out of danger whenever it wants.

H-3? It has the same kit and better killing potential, but the slow rate of fire is unreliable for harassment and it's pretty slow.

Rapid Pro? Sure it can get people behind cover with even more range, but it can't move as fast and it can't paint nearly as well as the dualie squelchers.

Jet Squelchers? More range, and more accurate, but they don't paint as well and they can't drift out of a situation quickly.

Inkbrush? Sure it has a nice escape, but the range is awful and it's even worse than the dualie squelchers in a fight.

Octobrush? Nice escape with decent combat abilities, but the range is still not there to play an anchor and neither is the painting.

I could go down the entire weapons list, but I can't find one weapon that simply outclasses the dualie squelchers in every aspect. There isn't one weapon where I could just say "Hey use x weapon over the dualie squelchers, they're better in every single way." I could say that argument for the E-Liter 4k. It's range is barely worth the long charge time, as I can get just about the same range with a faster charge time and a better kit with the vanilla splat charger. The Dualie Squelchers just aren't in that position. They're not explicit "meta", but they're far from useless, letting them become viable.

I honestly don't think DS has enough range to be a good anchor.

On a completely different, semi-random note, the Dualie Squelchers is the only weapon (exceptions could include Gloogas) that requires you to either overextend or retreat if you want your main weapon to work well. Without dodge rolling the DS is pleagued with horrible accuracy nearing the end of its range. The only way to mitigate this is to roll, but if you roll forward or backwards, you risk either overextending and putting yourself in a punishable position or retreat so that the pressure your weapon can exert gets lessened by quite a bit. Of course, you could always roll to the right or left, but you then risk losing your aim on the target altogether. Obviously, this isn't a big problem, but it's still there.

 

[Slushious]

They're not really made for a front-on rush into someone's face. Flanking and stealth are things in the game as well. If you can't get someone head on, just go around and surprise them from another angle.

I personally use my dualie squelchers to hassle people from a distance and cover turf. There's a good bit of satisfaction to be had in distracting the other guys' sniper long enough for your teammates to take advantage of that distraction =p

Something doesn't have to be suited to being in the middle of every scrimmage to be viable.

 

[The Salamander King]

Something doesn't have to be suited to being in the middle of every scrimmage to be viable.

I don't think anyone was implying that it had to be. If you look, you can see the 3 most discussed weapons in this thread are Dualie Squelchers, Custom Jet Squelcher, and Mini Splatling, all support weapons that have trouble when fighting multiple people in open spaces.

Honestly though, if you want to go for stealth you should probably play something like Roller or Sploosh.

 

[Saber]

@The Salamander King
The difference between the controller and a support is the goal of a support is to protect their team, and give them vision.
A good example of this would be the splattershot pro
The goal of a controller is map coverage, they are going to work on keep the map in their control for as long as feasibly possible.

The reason why I compare the DS to the Vanilla dulies is cause both share the same main goal, both have the kit and the same mobility mechanics.
I was simply making a better comparison than the mini (I also picked the vanilla dulies cause it is literally the mini splatling's kit with dodge rolls).

P.S I'd love to meet that DS main you mentioned, as of yet I haven't met a whole lot of them who know their around the weapon in solo queue and I haven't played league in ages (due to a certain ex- plumber)

 

[The Salamander King]

@The Salamander King
The difference between the controller and a support is the goal of a support is to protect their team, and give them vision.
A good example of this would be the splattershot pro
The goal of a controller is map coverage, they are going to work on keep the map in their control for as long as feasibly possible.

The reason why I compare the DS to the Vanilla dulies is cause both share the same main goal, both have the kit and the same mobility mechanics.
I was simply making a better comparison than the mini (I also picked the vanilla dulies cause it is literally the mini splatling's kit with dodge rolls).

P.S I'd love to meet that DS main you mentioned, as of yet I haven't met a whole lot of them who know their around the weapon in solo queue and I haven't played league in ages (due to a certain ex- plumber)

"Share the same main goal."

What?

And the player I was talking about was the OP @CreeperFishStix

 

[Spaceswitchmars]

One thing I'll totally agree with Creeper on is that DS alt kit looks like a monster. Whether or not you think the vanilla DS is good, I can't imagine a world where the alt DS isn't at least some part of the meta.

 

[Elecmaw]

Elec...stay awake...plz...so...much...text...ohgod
Man, this is somewhat unrelated but there's this thing called brevity, people. Keeping your posts short and to the point makes it so much easier and pleasant to read. Piece-by-piece quotes are tempting, but they quickly bloat the topic to terrifying lengths if done several times in succession.
People new to this thread want to get the full story before posting, but when you have to plow through a neutron bomb of redundant text they'll inevitably run for the hills.

That being said, i think Dualies Squelchers share the same fate as the SSPro Forge in S1: It's strength is it's flexibility. Forge didn't see much tournament use but it was an absolute mainstray in Solo Queue: Having range over the top-tier weapons, some painting ability, sensors and the infamous inkzooka on it's side to help any potential comp in winning the battle. Sure you could pick TTek, but there's no guarantee your teammates will have at least one range weapon in there to help you deal with .96 decos.
While Dualie Squelchers are not exactly the same, it still has that flexiblity to help it deal with most situations. Especially helpful as now all top-tier weapons (aside from S2 Forge) have less range than it.

Sensors are weak in league/tournament settings but they are very useful in solo queue. You have no method of communicating aside from 2 prompts, so marking the enemy will immediately tell your team on what's going on. A marked enemy behind your team is hard to ignore, especially if the enemy is going for a push. Mines work too, but they are unreliable for directly marking someone.

I don't think anyone is going to argue Dualies are a top-tier threat, but they're not utter trash. They are rare in tournaments and league play, but that's more likely because they have trouble fitting in a comp. That being said, it's still a solid choice for Solo Queue.

yes i now know the hypocrisy of making a post of telling people to keep their posts short and then being guilty of doing the same oh god it's getting longer why am i so terrible