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Inkling Fan Language Sister Project: Octoling Language

Discussion in 'Original Content' started by EclipseMT, Sep 10, 2015.

  1. EclipseMT

    EclipseMT Full Squid

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    I figured since that we have been bringing up Octoling language topics at an ever-increasing rate on the Inkling conlang thread, I figured, why not start this thread?

    Anyway, here is the thread for the Octoling language.

    The language is partially (and asymmetrically) mutually intelligible with Inkling (Octoling speakers can understand Inkling due to its simpler grammar, but not vice versa). Unlike Inkling, verb conjugations are present, but verbs do not conjugate based on number and person like many languages. Some words, mostly nouns, are common.

    The script is based off those found in Sunken Scrolls and other Hero Mode elements.

    EDIT: Octoling and Octarian: What is the difference?

    Typical octarian troops are virtually not as intelligent as Octolings. Regular Octarian speech is represented as very crude, primitive, and virtually unintelligible to speakers of any other language, so Octoling is to Black Speech as Octarian is to Orkish.

    And yes, this is not canon, like our sister project.

    CURRENT PROGRESS AS OF THIS THREAD'S CREATION: I have created a basic conjugation chart with three verbs. I will upload it once I have time to do such.
     
    #1 EclipseMT, Sep 10, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
  2. PiyozR

    PiyozR Senior Squid

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    Posting here for updates.

    As much as I'd love to contribute here, I think I'm going to pass on Octoling. Inkling is taking up so much of my time as it is. Mainly, you guys seem to want to go full-out conlang nerds on this one. And I say go for it! Inkling was always meant to be more casual and easy to approach for all Splatoon. I look forward to seeing what you guys and gals come up with for a more intense, in-depth Octoling! Plus, I anticipate our two languages being mutually intelligible. As soon as you have something of note assembled, let me know and I will add a link to it within my Inkling social media outlets (when I make those).

    Dunno if this will help, but here were my original notes for starting the Inkling project. On there I have a ton of Octoling letters in no exact order. Use those as a base for your alphabet if you like.
     

    Attached Files:

    EclipseMT and theFIZZYnator like this.
  3. theFIZZYnator

    theFIZZYnator Inkling

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    @PiyozR One step ahead of you there! I actually already made the first draft of the Octoling semisyllabary.
    image.jpg
    This semisyllabary deals with syllable-end consonants by binding them with the vowel, like Zhuyin does. List of initial consonants is bound to change—I don't want Octoling to be too much of a direct transposition of Inkling, after all!
     
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  4. EclipseMT

    EclipseMT Full Squid

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    We'd still contribute to the Inkling language on a regular basis. Once I have a set infrastructure, the audience can go ahead and create vocabulary, which I will then consider to post on a monthly or bimonthly basis.

    EDIT: Once we have a set infrastructure.
     
    #4 EclipseMT, Sep 11, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2015
  5. EclipseMT

    EclipseMT Full Squid

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    For reference, I would also post my proposed system. The two can possibly co-exist as two modes of the same script, like Tengwar.

    I am also thinking of using the Inkling script (|hankai-ji|, lit. "Foreign characters") for writing loanwords/foreign expressions, as well as colloquially for indicating a strange or foreign pattern of speech (i.e. a foreigner or a robot), like when I used a mixture of kanji and katakana to render Auto's speech.
     
  6. EclipseMT

    EclipseMT Full Squid

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    Addition 2: Pronouns.

    I: |ya|.
    You: |pi|.
    He/she/it: |zon|.
    We: |don'ya|.
    You guys: |donpi|.
    They: |donzon|.

    My proposal for personal pronouns. Whether or not I distinguish case is still to be decided (there will only be subjective and objective forms).

    Also, if plurals are to be different rater than |don| added to the beginning.
     
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  7. EclipseMT

    EclipseMT Full Squid

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    Here is that conjugation chart I was talking about, in my typical (atrocious) handwriting.

    Like the Japanese false friends?
     

    Attached Files:

  8. theFIZZYnator

    theFIZZYnator Inkling

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    I suggest "he/she/it" to be |zo| and "they" to be |donzo| so we can use |n| as the object marker, like I vs me = |ya| vs |yan|, he vs him = |zo| vs |zon|.

    Also, I've modified the conjugation chart a bit. List of changes:
    - Imperative form of {yu} became {ye}.
    - Negative form became a prefix {nu-} for combination with other forms: e.g. {nusu} "to not do", {nuseta} "didn't do", {nuse}"don't do it!"
    - Interrogative form became {ay} for same reason: e.g. {suay?} "does it do?" {setay?} "is it done?", {saray?} "has it been done?"
    - Conditional form of {yu} became {yeba}.
    - Added gerund as {-o}: {so} "action", {kanabo} "preparation", {yo} "existence".
    -- Negative form can be formed with {nu-}: {nuso} "inaction", {nuyo} "being nonexistent".
    - Added future tense as {onu}.
    Here's the chart:
    path4142.png

    I also have a different set of particles (assuming all nouns end in {o})
    subject: {-o} (no particle)
    object: {-on}
    genitive: {-owe}
     
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  9. EclipseMT

    EclipseMT Full Squid

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    On the chart there is an error; the progressive of |yu| is rendered |kanabichu| romanized, when it should be |yu|. The glyphs are okay.

    Also, nouns do not take specific word endings, except for gerunds.

    But so far, great going! Next stop, we need counters. Three at most.

    EDIT: In terms of word order, I was thinking arbitrary with verb constrained to the end.
     
    #9 EclipseMT, Sep 12, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
  10. Andy-the-Dandy

    Andy-the-Dandy Inkling

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    It seems the Octarians receive commands through their music! I don't think that necessarily changes anything, though. For all we know, they all get the same commands.
    Would this be Inkling or Zhuyinkling? It just seems sort of impractical to have all those dozens of characters for only occasional use. It'd make more sense they can all read it if they're bilingual to at least some extent.
     
  11. EclipseMT

    EclipseMT Full Squid

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    I seen it as they adopted it in mockery of them. Internally, the word for "foreigner" was a derogatory term for "Inkling."
     
  12. EclipseMT

    EclipseMT Full Squid

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    Numbers and counters:
    1: |i|*
    2: |yo|
    3: |sha|
    4: |chi|
    5: |ha|*
    6: |an|
    7: |na|
    8: |ze|*
    9: |to|
    10: |ju|
    100: |juga|
    1000: |jutai|

    (Asterisks indicate gemination where a counter suffix follows)

    Octoling has three counters.

    The first is a "How many?" counter, akin to 「ひとつ・ふたつ・みっつ」etc. Unlike Japanese, Octoling does not have any variations of this counter for certain situations.

    The second is an ordinal counter, like 「一番・二番・三番」.

    The third is a "How many times counter, like how 「一回・二回・三回」 works.

    (EDIT: 10 also geminates preceding a counter)
     
    #12 EclipseMT, Sep 13, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2015
  13. theFIZZYnator

    theFIZZYnator Inkling

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    I think hundred should be just {ga} and thousand should be {tai}.

    That's gonna be nice. I think at least one of the counters should start with a gemination symbol, like {i} becomes {iikei} but {an} becomes {annei} for example. Also, six and seven need to be a little less confusable.
     
  14. EclipseMT

    EclipseMT Full Squid

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    When I was specifying germination, I was thinking about having the following consonant of the counter word geminate, not the ending vowel or consonant in the number.

    It's like how once is "ikkai" and not "ichikai."

    Also, six can be |im| or |ni|.
     
  15. EclipseMT

    EclipseMT Full Squid

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    Also in a moment I will think about what words the two languages share.
     
  16. theFIZZYnator

    theFIZZYnator Inkling

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    That's a pretty cool idea. I'm all for it. I prefer {ni} for 6 by the way.

    Just for the heck of it, do you want to add more consonants / another vowel? I'm thinking of adding the schwa /ə/ or the German Ü /ʏ/ for the vowels, and the trilled R /r/ or the guttaral "kh" /x/ for the consonants. Maybe even the English th /θ/ /ð/.
     
  17. EclipseMT

    EclipseMT Full Squid

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    What about Å, or the soft "sk" sound (/ɧ/) in Swedish?

    EDIT: A-ring (/ɔ/) is more or less "o."

    But I have heard interesting phonemes in Swedish...

    I like the idea for /x/ and the "th" sound.
     
    #17 EclipseMT, Sep 14, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2015
  18. theFIZZYnator

    theFIZZYnator Inkling

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    Okay, Ü and Å are in my "suggested new vowels" list. (A thing though, I wonder if we should go with the Swedish pronunciation of Å and move the /ɔ/ to O.)
    I feel that the Swedish Sj is a little too hard to pronounce for speakers of other languages than Swedish. May I suggest the Welsh LL as in Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch /ɬ/, or perhaps the bilabial v /β/ as in Spanish to go with the "Japanese F" /ɸ/?
     
  19. EclipseMT

    EclipseMT Full Squid

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    As allophones or as seperate consonants? Perhaps phi can be an allophone to /f/, and l and r can be made seperate with r occupying the alevolar tap (Japanese r) and l being your proposed Welsh phoneme.

    Then there is romanization. Should /x/ be |kh| or |x|?

    About the Welsh L, what is the closest approximant?

    Also, I thought (at least in Swedish) there was no significant difference between Å and O. Then again, might be wrong.
     
  20. EclipseMT

    EclipseMT Full Squid

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    Counters:

    |kai|: Counter to indicate number of occurances.
    |pan|: Ordinal.
    |tsai|: General (how many of an item).

    Number of seconds, minutes, etc. does not use this general counter.

    EDIT: Also, question words.
    |shukhi|: Who.
    |dou|: What (e.g. |douya?| "What is it?"/|Piha dousu?| "What do you do (informal)?")
    |shibo|: Where.
    |shiane|: Which one.
    |se|: How (I might revise this).
    NOTE: For "how many," simply take |se| and append the appropriate counter suffix to it (e.g. |sekai| = "how many times").
    |sesen|: How much/to what extent.
    |koi|: Why.
    |yane|: When.

    And demonstratives (Octoling has two degrees depending on location relative to the speaker, ignoring listener's point of view):
    |tena|: this.
    |dona|: that.
    |teane|: This (specific noun).
    |doane|: That (specific noun).
    |tezo|: Here.
    |dozo|: There.

    So there are still some cognates within this language and inkling. Not all of them, yet.

    ANOTHER EDIT: To clarify, once I have set even more of these necessary words, I will start getting the PDF composed (Anyone willing to publish script charts?), and then we can start adding more nouns, adjectives, etc.
     
    #20 EclipseMT, Sep 16, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015
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