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Nintendo Switch Talk Thread

Discussion in 'Squid Social' started by Aori, Jul 6, 2016.

?

Would you get the NX?

  1. Yes

    24 vote(s)
    77.4%
  2. Maybe

    6 vote(s)
    19.4%
  3. No

    1 vote(s)
    3.2%
  1. Aori

    Aori Don't get Cooked!

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    Edit: This thread is specifically for talking about the Switch and it's specifics over wishes for Splatoon 2.
    Talk about your wishes for the nintendo switch (NX) here.
     
    #1 Aori, Jul 6, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
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  2. Meta Knightmare

    Meta Knightmare Full Squid

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    same here! I mean the deciding factor for me with the wiiu was getting Splatoon and Smash (then later on some other games)
    So if it has some games i like (i usually wait a while before getting a new console anyway) then i may just invest the cash
     
  3. Maave

    Maave Inkling Commander

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    I'll definitely get it. The next Zelda game is confirmed and I have no doubt that Splat 2 will be on the NX. Hopefully there will be more interesting content. I don't really care about the rehashes like Mario Kart 57 or Mario Party Elevnty Trillion - not worth $50-$60 for something I've played often before.

    I'm hoping for a gamepad too. Something with a screen. It has a lot of potential that wasn't fully realized with the Wii U (not a whole lot of console sales, so not a lot of development). Especially games with local multiplayer where you can hide information from other players. Card games and RTS would work great.
     
    Mr. 9 likes this.
  4. Aori

    Aori Don't get Cooked!

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    I'm kinda interested in the new zelda (after not being interested in zelda since Majora's mask and OoT) and the new Splat game would be amazing! I really hope everything's actually affordable this time and not worth like half a hundred for just a game. Some people were saying the NX would probably be handheld, but that doesn't really sound fitting for the title of "NX" plus the 3ds new is still going strong.

    So it might have a controller with a screen in it, or something similar I hope!
     
  5. Award

    Award Squid Savior From the Future

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    Voted yes. For me a new Nintendo machine is a must-buy. Meanwhile, my PS4 continues gathering dust along with my Vita, and I have low probability of upgrading to Neo there.

    There's so many contradictory theories on it, including from the Nintendo execs. You mention affordability above. In terms of hardware Miyamoto's mentioned several times that the high price point of WiiU was one of it's problems and that's something they intend to remedy. On the other hand so many rumors speculate that it's "at least as powerful as PS4" and that 3rd party devs are impressed. If so, there's no way it sells for less than WiiU. If it's not an x86, PS4 powered systems, then we can presume Ubisoft, EA, Activision, Bethesda, etc will continue to ignore it. Nintendo would be committing to not compete in that race.

    What we know is, it's not "a handheld." Kimishima called it a "home console" himself, and references to the TV have been made. However, I also suspect it's "a handheld" - or rather the rumors that it's a hybrid system are indeed true. It makes sense on a multitude of fronts:
    • 3rd Parties are not coming back. Ever. Not Western ones. That means Nintendo needs to support their systems themselves, along with the 3rd parties like Atlus they already have. They can NOT continue to support two separate systems. They couldn't even do it this time. WiiU suffered early (and permanently) because 3DS faltered at launch. Development was redirected to save 3DS at all costs, sacrificing WiiU in the process. A wise move, as handheld is their monopoly market with no direct competition - they can't afford to lose it. But they cut loose their home console to move development to the handheld, and failed to be able to do both at the same time. That set the tone for WiiU. A single platform is essential if they're going it alone, and the fact that all their 3rd parties are mostly handheld gives them that support.
    • Iwata commented that they're aware that Japan likes to play handheld, and the West likes to play home console and they're always looking for ways to accomodate both ways of play.
    • The one rumor that seems undisputed is that it will use cartridges (game cards, whatever) while that would be wise on a regular console it's essential (and never halted) on handheld. If they're using cartridges, there's a good hint it has a handheld component.
    • The moment WiiU launched they started building a new HQ with the design to merge the handheld and console hardware divisions into a single unit. That plan clearly was already in the making before WiiU's launch. Combined with the "off TV play" of WiiU, it seemed like they were intending to bring their console (3rd rate competitor) product with their handheld (monopoly in its own industry) product.
    • WiiU AND 3DS seem to be slowing down with no known releases beyond Q4.
    • A March release. Historically Consoles always released Nov/Dec to catch the holiday sales, handhelds launched in spring to be ready for summer vacation sales. Portables do well for summer travel.
    • Nobody knows what NX stands for, if it stands for anything according to Kimishima. Apparently that was Iwata's knowledge only. But note that "X" (a letter and consonant sound the Japanese language does not natively have) is usually pronounced "Cross" in Japan (as with Xenoblade CROSS, Project CROSS Zone, Monster Hunter CROSS. Very possibly it's a reference to being a crossover platform.
    Ultimately, Nintendo NEEDS to streamline. They're the only company supporting two distinct platforms and the one that can least afford to do so. In addition such a product would actually be incredibly awesome. The ability to take new Zelda or Spla2n off the TV and take it anywhere with you, then toss it on the TV again would be amazing. If I could do that when I was a kid and play Mario 3 on my Gameboy? I'd have probably left the house more :p That would fit "a new unique way to play games" as Kimishima puts it. Taking the same game from the TV to anywhere as a handheld hasn't been done before. Sony tried with PS4/Vita Remote Play. Which needs to be in the same room or an amazing internet connection, and really runs awful. It's not like WiiU offTV at all.

    However I don't believe it will have a second screen. The removal of maps and inventory from the Gamepad in Breath of the WIld because it's "distracting" is a falsehood no matter what Aonuma says. They used it in TP, and WW. They removed it because it needs parity of NX and thus NX won't have the second screen. There could be a good reason.

    I picture, if it's a hybrid, there's two possible ways they implment it:
    1. The handheld is the console. Not powerful. Only as powerful as a WiiU. It comes with a docking cradle in the box. You leave the cradle wired to the TV. you come home, plop your NX on the cradle, pick up the Pro Controller and play on the TV. The screen is sitting on the "console" that's under your TV, so you don't get to use the second screen to play, just your Pro controller. But when you want to take it outdoors, you just pick it up off the cradle and go. A battery-powered WiiU that fits in your pocket (with a single screen, not a clamshell DS) It could sell a bit cheaper than WiiU and is more versatile.
    2. Two separate machines. You buy the NX Home and the NX Anywhere separately. They maintain their current price points: $399 for the home console, $199 for the handheld. For the budget minded, you can buy only the handheld for $199 and play any NX game with scaled down graphics on the portable device. For the "gamerz" you can buy the $399 console and play on your TV like a PS4 with beefier "PS4-or-better" graphics. For the die-hard Nintendo fan you buy both for $600 (or maybe a discount bundle for the two) and you can take your Zelda cartridge out of your console and pop it into your handheld and keep playing (with downscaled graphics.)
    Game pricing though. $40 or $60? I suspect it might be flexible enough that Zelda or Spla2n would be $60 and Fire Emblem $40 like before. They cant' charge more than $60 while Sony is not. Much as ALL companies would like to. Could they charge less? The costs of HD development really suggest $60 is too little (thus DLC and Amiibo) so probably not.

    New 3DS isn't really a new platform, it's just the latest hardware model like the DSi and the XBox One S. Certainly it's the most premium but it's still really just a 3DS. And the 3DS platform is quite old now - in fact it's precisely when they'd normally be replacing it....like NX might do. Though I wouldn't be sad if that weren't the case. 3DS has become my favorite console of all time, surpassing even SNES which I never thought possible. It's sad to see it go (and I love the 3D effect.)
     
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  6. Slurmp

    Slurmp Pro Squid

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    With Zelda: breath of the wild as a launch title, a near monopoly with almost no competition for the 3DS in handhelds, and the vast array of other first party IPs, I'm expecting the NX to be a home console. The PS Vita never got the traction necessary to keep up with the 3ds, and with no other big competitors Nintendo has that area locked down. This would let them use the NX to get back in the lead for home consoles.

    When the NX releases around March, Pokemon sun and moon would still be pretty new. This leads me to believe that it will be a heme console as they likely would'nt want to miss some of those sales.

    The thing I worry most about is that if the NX uses cartridges then it may not be backwards compatible. The NX using cartridges would also make it even more expensive for 3rd party developers to make games for it.
     
  7. Award

    Award Squid Savior From the Future

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    3DS sales are slumping though, not due to lack of interest, but due to overall market saturation for its audience. Investors are always pushing on how they're going to increase hardware sales on the 3DS side, and Nintendo's, and their 3rd parties need to move into new hardware whenever they've done all they want to on the current hardware. I wouldn't complain if 3DS had more life ahead, but I suspect it doesn't, it's really time for a genuine replacement. Though I wouldn't rule out, if it's option two of two separate pieces of hardware, that the console half comes in 2017 and the handheld half comes in 2018. And, honestly, they can't afford to keep making games for 3DS AND NX. If they transition fully to NX, 3DS will have a drought and look like the last 2 years of the Wii, same as when they pivoted to 3DS from WiiU. I think that's they cycle they're trying to fix (or if they're not trying to fix it, they've just stuck their head in the sand and are waiting for more failures.)

    Pokemon Black & White launched on the DS, AFTER the 3DS was launched. I don't think there's any harm releasing a 3DS replacement 4 months AFTER the latest Pokemon if last time they didn't mind releasing a game for the old system after the new one was already out. Pokemon's never been a cutting edge pusher of technology, and tends to aim at the largest install base possible.

    Honestly if it's not a hybrid, or two machines that play the same games, I really worry for its survival (and/or their handheld's - that could signal that they accept a split between handheld and mobile. And as mobile devices are vastly MORE powerful than 3DS these days, I don't think 3DS would hold on that long, especially in light of a drought.



    Their problem for a while has been, on the tech front, they didn't compete with MS and Sony. As a result, MS and Sony now have an established loyal audience that would have little reason to switch to Nintendo should Ninty offer an equivalent console at an equivalent price, particularly when it's a "less serious" or "less cool" brand. They continue insisting they don't want to compete in Sony/MS' "red ocean" and Takeda has been a loyal apprentice to Yokoi's ideas that an arms race for ever more powerful hardware will never satisfy customer demands. Yet in following that they basically ceded that market. If they try to differentiate themselves with another "gimmick" console, chasing after the Wii exercise fad again, they're going to lose big. I HOPE they know this (but they way they talk I at times fear they don't) But making their home console different by letting it tap into their amazing handheld dominance and act as an extension of it....that DOES give them an edge at something different. "Portable home console games" would legitimately be something that has never been offered before, and the concept was teased but very badly executed by Sony in Vita, and sorta, kinda tried with nVidia Shield (who, rumors say, is the tech partner on NX, and was willing to pretty much give the store away just to secure a contract with the big 3 after they lost BOTH MS and Sony to AMD/ATI...so...) :)


    Cartridges and backward compatibility: A few thoughts on that. The patents are fairly clear about a console with no optical drive. Nintendo itself has always hated discs. Miyamoto insisted NO for N64 (and they didn't want to pay CD royalties to Sony. They "caved" for GCN, but went with those odd proprietary mini discs. Wii finally had DVDs in a proprietary format. WiiU has BD.

    In the past the purpose of optical discs was that they were far cheaper than solid state cartridges, and they held far more data. That's no longer true. Modern ROM+NAND cartridges are quite cheap and actually store MORE data than their optical counterparts which are at the end of their useful expansion at this point. And as always they're WAAAAY faster and far more reliable with no moving parts on the console. Note that your 8gb 3DS game cards cost you less than your $60 WiiU BDs. The medium isn't the cost barrier anymore, just the content is. BDXL tops out at 128gb, but that requires special licensing, more expensive discs, more expensive drives, etc. Normal BD DL tops at 50GB. 3DS cards top at 8GB only because that was the file system defined 6 years ago or so. 64GB SD cards (bigger and faster than any BD DL) run for pennies now at wholesale.

    Also, DVD and CD printing was cheap. BD printing is not. With the increasing costs of discs, and the decreasing costs of cartridges (again, think 3DS GameCards or even Vita Game Cards or whatever they call them, not NES carts which were solid state daughter boards containing graphics coprocessors and such, not just game data, each game actually came with computer hardware, it wasn't just a data storage medium as modern "cartridges" are.)

    Also, a big point of expense (and bulk) in a console is the optical drive and it's the leading point of failure. Second would be that PS4 and XBO require installing games to the spinning platter HDD (another mechanical point of failure and limits the number of games installed) because optical is way too slow. Does Ninty want to get into selling "the 1TB model, the 2TB model, the SSD model"? No. And why bother: Cartridges ARE MMC SSDs. Each game can be its own SSD (and digital buyers can still buy their own external HDD like WiiU) With that fast access rate, no game install is needed. Thus no in the box HDD is needed. Lower cost to market. Why does nobody else do this? Because nobody else has an existing cartridge model and partnership on a large scale Nintendo does. They're Macronix' biggest buyer on their ROM products, and they overflow to SanDisc. It's one place they actually have a positive scale of economies. Also, Sony OWNS the disc format, so they have a vested interest in promoting the disc playback for driving their video products. MS wants to push cloud tech for their core business...I wonder if Scorpio will support ANY physical media?

    And finally: Backward compatibility. It's VERY unlikely. Very. While it's unlikely to have a disc drive, the eShop could still DISTRIBUTE WiiU games, But there's the problem of architecture compatibility. If they really want to make their own PS4/XBox and try to get FIFA and Battlefield, and Fallout on the platform as "the 3rd nearly identical box on the market", they need to shift from PPC to x86 architecture like everyone else. PPC emulation on x86. The whole ponit of RISC is that it's a lot more efficient than x86, using the clunky x86 architecture to process otherwise efficient RISC instructions requires tremendously overpowered hardware in comparison. I.E. IT can't run native so it must run in emulation, and unless it's MUCH more powerful, that's impractical. Microsoft vowed not to do it for X360, then they announced last year they'd do it on a game by game basis (I.E. the ones that don't suck horribly when emulated). Sony opted not to even try, and went with streamed games for PS3 via NOW. Which is an unmitigated stuttering disaster for most people. They bought Gaikai and thought they had a new toy to use. Works fine in Japan because their internet is like a LAN here.

    It's possible the architecture might be ARM as well (what most Smartphones and tablets use). That would mean the 3rd parties still won't care (no FIFA and Battlefield still), and backward compatibility would still be difficult. But if the nVidia rumors are true there's a fair chance that it could use one of nVidia's ARM based platforms.

    All might not be lost though, as, depending on the cartridge structure, it might be able to emulate 3DS as the 3DS isn't all that powerful....so it's possible even with a different architecture it could run the 3DS library. Which is ENORMOUS, and a lot more people have games for it than WiiUs. BUT if it doesn't have 2 screens, it won't really be able to play WiiU OR 3DS games. So "Remastered" games might be the only hope.


    All theories and speculations and we'll probably all be wrong when they announce it. It's probably a toe wiggle sensor with a microphone where voice pitch controls character movement. :p
     
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  8. Slurmp

    Slurmp Pro Squid

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    The return of the donkey kong GameCube/wii bongo thing.
     
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  9. Award

    Award Squid Savior From the Future

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    This is Nintendo we're talking about.... I've had nightmares about that! :eek:
     
  10. jason1637

    jason1637 Senior Squid

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    Third parties will make NX games if the NX is profitable for them.
     
    Award likes this.
  11. Flareth

    Flareth Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    It'll be utter ****, and it will fail horribly and kill Nintendo forever.

    At least, that seems to be the general consensus I've seen elsewhere. I don't know if it's out of genuine distaste for Nintendo, or if people are jumping to these conclusions because we've heard zilch about it. It's kinda sad, really. You'd expect new console hype to be mostly, well, hype for the the new console (or at least "cautious optimism", whatever the hell that means), not a bunch of doom & gloom.

    I don't know if I'll get it right away, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna miss out on Pikmin 4 and NSMBNX.
     
    Award likes this.
  12. Aori

    Aori Don't get Cooked!

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    I kept hearing that too, and honestly I don't know if that's going to end up being the truth or not. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
     
  13. SyMag

    SyMag SOLDIER 1st Class

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    I voted yes for one simple reason: I am a Nintendo fan. Super Mario Bros. 3 was the first video game I ever played at 5 years old, and 20 years later I still think of it as one of my all-time favorite games. Everything I know about that game started by being passed down to me by my mom.

    20 years later and I still find Nintendo to be the only gaming company I can wholeheartedly support. Recently, yes, their business decisions have been rather questionable, and a lot of people criticize how Nintendo's games are more suited for kids than for both kids and adults, and to an extent they're right. But I can't be the only twenty-something on this site playing a game rated E10+. Let's be honest, this is Nintendo's first original game since Pikmin launched in 2001; people keep saying Nintendo is going the way of the dodo, but Splatoon has proven that there's still plenty of tricks up Nintendo's sleeve. Look at how even in this thread people are talking in curious tones about what we might be seeing in eight months when the NX is launched. Nobody I know is having the same reaction to an Xbox successor, or a PS5.
    Nintendo has been changing the game since the beginning.
    It revived a video game market that was on its deathbed in the U.S. with the NES.
    It created a fierce rivalry with the SNES, a rivalry that is still referred to even today.
    It was one of the ambassadors of 3D gaming with the N64.
    It perfected a fighting game on the Gamecube that, even 15 years later, is still played at major gaming tournaments across the globe.
    Motion controls in games? Thank the Wii for popularizing that trend.
    And this is just the home consoles. They popularized, if not invented, the handheld console market.

    Maybe this isn't the answer anyone is looking for, but to me, Nintendo will be my #1 gaming company until the day I die.

    As for those who think the NX will tank, or that Nintendo is finished, I have one thing to say to you:
    "Leave luck to heaven."
     
    Mr. 9, Award, Slurmp and 1 other person like this.
  14. Aori

    Aori Don't get Cooked!

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    I'm primarily going off of what i'm hearing online for the most part. People are skeptical about it and I can't place why, but the main thing keeping me from being really hyped about the NX is my lack of a steady income to support me having enough money to get it (though i'm bound to get a stable job before it's release) and the fact I'm not sure if any games I need are coming out for it. Even if Spla2n comes out I probably won't get it until an AC game or a new Kirby game comes out for it. I also am going to be offput from it if it doesn't have the gamepad (without the motion controls, please) since I enjoy the offscreen play feature.

    I guess I'm also worried about how many people are saying it's gonna be garbage too, considering how many of them there are.
     
  15. SyMag

    SyMag SOLDIER 1st Class

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    I'm not sure if I'll be getting it at launch or not. It really depends on what sorts of games will be available at the beginning/how much it costs. But at some point, yes, I'll be getting one.

    I'm not sure how others feel about the Gamepad, but I like it. I remember watching the E3 where they first officially revealed the Wii U and thinking "what will they think of next." Sure it wasn't as groundbreaking as the Wii's motion controls were, but it was still an interesting concept. That's the one thing, I think, that separates Nintendo from the rest of the competition: they're the only ones who take risks anymore. The other big two consoles have become so streamlined that it becomes boring even to talk about them. You also have to consider that Nintendo makes their own games on top of the console, something neither Microsoft nor Sony do to as large a degree as Nintendo, which of course will spread their resources out thinner.

    My point is, there's always going to be naysayers. That's just how it is. But seeing how their Wii U has flopped and is being called one of their worst technological innovations since the Virtual Boy, I find it hard to believe that they're going to just copy and paste the Wii U concepts into the NX and call it the "Wii Us" or something like that (I think one of the reasons the Wii U flopped in the first place is because of the half-a**ed attempt at making a unique name for the console). They know they screwed up, which is probably why they're taking so long to say something about the NX--they want to make sure it's absolutely perfect first. The Gamecube is considered a low point in Nintendo's history, and look what followed it: the Wii, which iirc sold out within hours on launch day, so much so that orders for Wii consoles were backed up for months.

    If they can make a grand slam console once, they can do it again. I'm trusting them.
     
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  16. Aori

    Aori Don't get Cooked!

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    TBH motion control is a huge turn-off for me and always was. I couldn't really make the most of it and it was more of a nuisance than anything. I was really interested in the wii u's offscreen play because i could just lay in bed and play my games. It's uncomfortable for me to try and view my TV from bed bc i'd have to lay in a weird position, haha.

    I liked the gamecube...
    I still have mine, haha... it had good games like Kirby Air Ride and that one other Kirby ga-- oh wait that was cancelled lol.
    They said that the NX would be something new, but just because of that I don't think they can't not recycle the concept of a gamepad or something similar and make it better for this console. Offscreen play is incredibly useful- Perhaps even making it even more portable would be the key to making the NX succeed. Everyone loves portable games that you can play on trips, after all- and having it function as both a handheld AND a console would be amazing.
     
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  17. SyMag

    SyMag SOLDIER 1st Class

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    I understand that. I don't know if they'll make motion controls optional on the NX or not (if it's there at all), so don't lose hope just yet.

    I'm not entirely sure why the Gamecube is criticized so much. I like it (my indigo one is still here!), it has a good arsenal of first-party games, but general consensus is that it sucks :( From what I've heard on here, the idea of having the Wii U and 3DS markets merge into the NX is plausible (see the post by @Award further up), and if done well could make for a well-selling console, and perhaps further creating a niche market for itself.
     
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  18. Aori

    Aori Don't get Cooked!

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    It would definitely sell me on it if it worked as both handheld and console. Like... Instantly, the moment I had the money.
    as long as there's kirby games I can get on it.
     
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  19. Flareth

    Flareth Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    To me, it almost sounds like they want the NX to be a disaster for some reason. That or they're too cynical and won't let themselves be joyful about it.
     
    SyMag likes this.
  20. Award

    Award Squid Savior From the Future

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    True enough, but it's a catch-22, and it'll be harder this gen than last gen to get them on board. Costs of development are skyrocketing, staff sizes and project time as well. Every studio wants to support as many platforms as possible as easy as possible, so the answer was obvious: If EVERY platform is merely an x86 PC, then they really only need to build a PC version and accommodate only minor API differences between each other platform. Nintendo thought that since WiiU had appropriate power for 3rd party games, they 3rd parties would support it (and they said they would...but that was back when X360 was also PPC and before the x86 PS4/XBO twins released.) Supporting WIiU meant a total architecture rewrite of the game JUST to support Nintendo. And even then without spending tons of times on that it was never going to be amazing.

    Getting proper Western 3rd party support requires one of two things. NX needs to either be x86 architecture like the others, but then it would need to be a fairly power hungry heat throwing machine like the other two as well. -OR- the NX needs to sell like the Wii (a near impossible sell for the niche gaming company to sell another console that sells like the exercise fad the Wii was) - with a huge 100+mil install base, 3rd parties will have no choice but to spend a fortune on custom ports if they don't want to miss that audience.

    BUT - it's more complicated. Getting 3rd parties what they want and getting games to sell are two different things. The old axiom in Ninty circles that Nintendo gamers only buy Nintendo games is fairly true. If I were a project lead at EA, lets say for a new Dead Space game, deciding if I was going to spend the R&D money, EVEN IF NX is just an x86 PS4 clone, would I spend the time and money on the Nintendo platform? I know my audience that already likes my games is already loyal to Sony/MS/PC, they're already there. They really have little reason to leave the platforms they like. That audience was built in the PS2 era. And on those platforms, my competition will be Watchdogs, and Fallout, and Skyrim remastered. I can handle that, my audience is very targeted. But if I jump onto Nintendo, I'm gaining an audience that already rejected my type of games for Nintendo's type of games. Not many of them will be too interested, of of the ones that are, they probably already have an XB1/PS4/PC to play games like mine on - I'd get them anyway. But worse, right now I'm not on Nintendo, so I don't have to compete DIRECTLY against Nintendo for their customers. If I go Nintendo, I have longer dev times, longer costs, another certification to be approved on, AND come release day I end up competing DIRECTLY against Zelda and Metroid, a contest I'm certain to lose. So WHY would I put my games on a platform on which the only publisher bigger than myself has a near-monopoly on it's audience by owning the platform itself?

    Problem 3 is Sony/MS PAY publishers to bring their games over. They will pick AAA projects to contribute funding to to secure it on their platform. Big money, basically as an investment. Those platforms were built to be low cost PCs for gaming dedicated to the multiplat. The publishers have learned to rely on this funding model, and expect it. That's a game Nintendo won't play. They have their own games to fund. No funding, no game, unless the console is Wii-level success. And equivalent power.

    That's the real problem Nintendo has with 3rd parties. The architecture presents big problems, yes, but even if they just bought PS4's and painted a red "Nintendo" logo on the side and put them in a box with Mario's picture on them, 3rd parties are hesitant to open up to a platform with historically low results for them and opens them to crushing competition from the platform holder they just PAID to be on.

    A few games here and there like CoD would support it if it's x86 or has a big enough install base, but it wouldn't be a multiplat haven. PS4/XBO were built specifically for running multiplats and have a funding model to secure them. Plus they pay the consumer to buy the product, drawing initial funds from other divisions to sell hardware at a loss. Nintendo doesn't have that luxury, they can't sell hardware at a deep loss.

    So it's a lot more complicated than "if it's profitable" because architecture and install base are only two big factors in profitability - there's also the market they end up competing in. Lets face it, most Nintendo gamers buy Nintendo instead of the other two because they like the kind of games on Nintendo more than the other two. Those of us that like both, buy both. I happen to like Deus Ex (granted it was eventually on WiiU so not the best example), but Mankind Divided won't be. I do have a PS4 because I like some multiplat franchises. They'll get me to buy their game whether they go through the Nintendo hoops or not. I think Iwata had the right idea with the Wii, billing it as a "second console". Wii is depressing no matter what, but the idea was right. Nintendo has a very different market from the other two, and it NEEDS to have a very different market. It would never survive just competing in the same market. Wii & WiiU may be a low point, but Ninty hasn't genuinely competed in that market since the SNES. Yamauchi's decisions on N64 started it, though really it was the deal with Sony falling through that really set the current events in motion. Wii just hit a pinnacle of them being forced to a different market, taking their ball, and going home by being RADICALLY different. WiiU was an experiment in returning to compete against Sony without understanding where Sony was going.

    There's HOPE for 3rd parties, but I wouldn't expect them. Nor would I expect Nintendo to try to cater to them again. They tried with WiiU and it blew up in their faces. They WANT 3rd parties, but they're more interested in Japanese 3rd parties, and keeping within their unique "this isn't going up against Sony/MS" market. Besides, who really wants a 3rd PS clone when we could get something different?

    LOL, welcome to the Internet, where hype comes in the form of complaining, whining, and doomsaying, ESPECIALLY if you once read something sucks and haven't even seen it yourself. :p I think after the Wii's complete disregard for actual gamers, and WiiU's drought filled implosion (Note: WiiU actually turned a profit, and thus is not a 'failure' but damaged the brand) gamers are just jaded. Plus conflicting ideas from rumor mills and Nintendo itself and a growing internet dislike for Miyamoto and his fixation on kids (as though we weren't all kids when he first made fans of US with his same fixation on kids). So far on the internet "If it's not as powerful as PS4 Scorpio it will fail" Which is just internet idiot thinking from the unimaginative. Most people think of head-on attacks. "PSXBox has the audience with shooters and graphics, so if Nintendo does the same thing, THEY'LL get the audience with shooters and graphics. It omits the reality: Why would any of the 40 Million people with a PS4 now play their favorite games on an NX instead, when all those games will be coming to the PS4 they already have along with Sony's exclusives that most likely appeal to that player more than Mario, in exchange for a brand name that isn't even considered "cool"? They won't. A powerhouse me-too box would be the guaranteed failure. Ninty has to do different, even if they didn't want to.

    My only real fear for it is if they are really trying to capture the Wii fad all over again by building a "mass market, consumer friendly, multi-purpose" device trying to make it a fitness fad, or something again to guarantee the 100m+ sales again. It won't work. That was the right product at the right time, during a transition in technology. It spoke to a group that no longer can be spoken to, really. THAT would fail as hard as the me-too box. Or worse. They need to return to the Gameboy/DS roots: Make it affordable, and portable, and economical to develop for, and it will sell. It won't be running Fallout 5 if they do that. That's OK, Gameboy didn't run Mario 3. Tetris sold it just fine.

    All so true. I really don't think Nintendo games cater to kids more than adults. That's just a cultural lens people view it through. It has cute cartoon graphics and is immediately assumed to be for kids. Similarly. Tolkein's masterpiece of LotR was chided as a children's book even by his fellow Oxford colleagues and accepted that way mostly everywhere. The idea was anything with fantastical elements was clearly for children and not the place of adults. Of course, the whole novel is a social, societal, and political commentary about the industrialization of England - not even slightly for children. I suspect the realization of that spurred his detractors to scream even louder that it was for children, to discredit it.

    Similarly, Nintendo games are adorably cute on the surface and deviously frustrating down deeper. The grand master of that being Pokemon. The cute simple game oh so much for children to share pokemons in the schoolyard. Meanwhile, it's a monstrous depth RPG where adults that ignore the stigma play with deep spreadsheets and probability charts. The whole things a statistics & probability puzzle. You know...like the stock market. :p

    Other Nintendo games, cute as they are in 1-1, have you screaming 4 letter words non-stop by 5-5. I haven't seen many "push A to win" games on PSXbox that can be quite so infuriatingly difficult as even the adorable Wooly World.

    We're somehow still stuck in "Sega does what Nintendon't" - it's about brand coolness, following what's adult's are supposed to like based on visuals, while ignoring the deeper game systems that are usually significantly more complex than competitors. To be fair, Sony does have a fair number of Japanese games localized that would be at home on a Nintendo platform. MS really does not. But the Sony ones tend to be VERY anime-Japan-weeb-bait. It can't grab just anybody and pull them in.

    In the West, "family friendly" doesn't sell anymore. Yet Nintendo can't compete as the "edgy" brand either.

    All in all, NX faces struggles to be a success....BUT I think if you're a Nintendo gamer, it will be great regardless of it's success. Heck, the WiiU is great regardless. it hasn't had enough games but the ones it got have been largely excellent, with Splatoon being so good it caused me to have a backlog on a console with no games :p

    Because it's the internet which is filled with people that feel good about themselves by bashing uncool things, and tech snobs who sneer at the irrelevance of anything but the most superior tech (yet Apple somehow gets a pass despite their stuff always being as obsolete at launch as Nintendo's) :p

    Oh it better have motion controls (actually Ubisoft confirmed, accidentally, it does in the Just Dance e3 announcement: "Releasing on all motion control platforms including Nintendo Wii, WiiU Oct 2016, and NX in 2017." Splatoon has spoiled me in the extreme with those motion controls. You don't realize how much you use them until the other day I picked up Deus Ex to show someone, and felt like I was fighting the game. I could hardly control it. I was playing with Mirror's Edge: Catalyst on PS4 the other day and felt like throwing the controller across the room. It's a game based on fluid motion, like Splatoon, and the controls are anything but fluid. After Splatoon's motion controls, I'm afraid I might not even be able to play first person and close-camera 3rd person games without them anymore! :( I'm ruined! :p Sadly Nintendo redefined the console shooter's controls and the industry didn't even pay attention.

    IF it's the Hybrid idea (either 2 systems or 1 system) we'll get our off-tv. I'm hoping for that as well! I'd truly be shocked if it was not the hybrid idea. Even if it's 2 machines that play the same games, even if the handheld releases a year later. Honestly if it has that feature, if the library is deep, it could end up becoming my favorite platform of all time. I'd be in awe if Nintendo managed to best my "best platform" status from the SNES to the 3DS after all these years and then hit new heights for me in the very next generation. I still have a soft spot for SNES...but objectively it's hard to say it's better than 3DS considering the best SNES games are ALSO on 3DS.



    I don't put much stock in the "Nintendoomed" naysayers. They've been at it for a long time. Nintendo has been "doomed" since the NES came out. :rolleyes: It's amusing the internet has decided that a product they know absolutely nothing about, and don't even know what form factor it will have, is a guaranteed failure :p

    If I recall, according to the internet, both pre-and post-announcement the iPad was also doomed. ;) And that's the Internet's most BELOVED tech company!


    (Edit: Sometimes I really hate the double post policy:( This post didn't need to be a monolithic text wall and was 3 replies to 3 conversations...but I had to do it as one. sorry everyone!)
     
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