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Save Scumming in the competitive environment

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by TheMH, Sep 11, 2015.

  1. Agosta44

    Agosta44 Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    No one from A- to S play like top A+ players from July. Almost everyone has been leeched through squads. S rank solo queue is nothing but feeders now. There is a giant skill gap.
     
    Elecmaw and Charlight like this.
  2. chrisblass1

    chrisblass1 Pro Squid

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    Splatoon gameplay isnt even that complicated were A+ players from july are god like. Saying that no one in A- to S can fight them is an exaggeration, there is always someone better than you in those ranks.
     
    Mendax likes this.
  3. LockeExile

    LockeExile Pro Squid

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    By that logic it's 12.5% skill (you) 87.5% luck (the seven other players).
     
  4. chrisblass1

    chrisblass1 Pro Squid

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    I meant my team, not the other half of the lobby
     
  5. LockeExile

    LockeExile Pro Squid

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    Your team is only half the equation though. Even if your team works very well with you, you'll still lose if the enemy team is better. Even if you get an awful teammate, you'll still win if the enemy has two.
     
    Mendax likes this.
  6. chrisblass1

    chrisblass1 Pro Squid

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    Most people assume they lost because of their teammates instead of thinking they didnt play their best or that the other team was better. i should of said that better, instead of saying rank is 75% luck, i should say that getting teammates that work well with each other is. But yeah your right about rank in general.
     
    ThatLuckyKid likes this.
  7. ThatLuckyKid

    ThatLuckyKid Inkling

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    Thats true! You cant tell if your team is good together until the match starts and u see them play.
     
    Mendax likes this.
  8. Kittyy

    Kittyy Inkling

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    Ive watched him play. Ranked shouldnt be a 1v4 and sometimes it seems that way when your team mates simply don't do what they should be doing. If the other team is as skilled as him, or even better, he has a very low chance of winning the match if his team mates are garb. I've played a bit of ranked myself and a lot of players, B to S rank play so badly. I'm shocked they managed to be an A or S. Many times I played, the words "what are you doing?!" came out of my mouth a lot because of what I saw other players do. Sometimes you get a nice team, but thats not always the case. Inviso also doesn't have the best of luck in most cases either. So I am not surprised when he gets angry. Ive watched his team mates with the rain maker completely go the opposite direction of the pedestal/base. and there was no reason for them to go the other way. Time wasn't running out, no players on the other team were in the area at that time. There was no reason.
     
    Mendax likes this.
  9. Luke_T-800

    Luke_T-800 Inkling

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    Although I haven't save scummed, I can't blame anyone who does it for gear re-rolls. Grinding for cash is no fun and the stat differences aren't that major in comparison to other shooters. I've lost maybe two firefights ever due to inferior gear.

    But even though we tend to get headless chickens as teammates sometimes, save scumming to help advance or protect a rank you didn't deserve is just sad.
     
    Mendax likes this.
  10. Blast

    Blast Inactive

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    Not sure if anyone's said anything about this yet or if it will work, but wouldn't this be a great way for players to get access to their own gear and weapons for irl tournaments? All the players could take a USB stick with the save data from their game, then use it to overwrite with the files on the Wii U at the venue. Of course there haven't been a lot of irl tournaments yet, but this might be a good way to let everyone compete with their own stuff :3
     
  11. TheMH

    TheMH Inkling Commander

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    That would be great. Unfortunately every console has its unique key files with which all your data is encrypted on your Wii U. So copying files from one console to another is not a thing. Initializing the Wii U creates new keys, too.
     
    Blast likes this.
  12. Blast

    Blast Inactive

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    Ah, guess we'll have to find another way then, too bad ;;
     
  13. Inky Corruption

    Inky Corruption Full Squid

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    Unless I glossed over it there is something I want to draw attention to that I didn't see covered in this thread already.
    It is in regards to equipment rolling.

    See, my problem with the sub-slot rolling is that it is designed with incredibly unfavourable odds. Now, what type of game generally sports single-digit percentages, particularly below the 1%?

    MMOs

    Spyke offers MMO-level odds for equipment in a game that features no player-to-player trade, there is no market in which such a system could thrive, and the game is clearly not designed to enforce it either. The closest semblance to a player-to-player interaction is gear ordering, which only influences the person doing the ordering - the player who used that gear does not receive any benefits or compensation. And even then it's proven to be far less viable than save-scumming.

    In summary, the game offers unreasonable odds in an environment that does not support the format, hence the save-scumming method. Given these circumstances I find it entirely acceptable that people resort to such methods in order to acquire the gear they need for the meta-game.
     
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  14. LAG

    LAG Inkster Jr.

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    Wait you can actually save your rank from losing points. WOW. I got my S rank through sheer willpower - wins, losses, and all.

    I do think I'll try it for slot rolling (seriously, I spend so much money and end up comprising when I get a better roll than others even if it isn't 100% desired).

    I wonder if people look at S rank people and think they Save Scum. I fought hard for my accomplishment, and other people who play this game as vigorously should get that recognition, too.

    I think it's noncompetitive for sure - your rank has to MEAN something, so by removing any risk, you remove the competition. You lost? Restore your ladder point progression. Like... that's the opposite of competition.
     
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  15. Inky Corruption

    Inky Corruption Full Squid

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    The real problem with rank-scummers is that when they're put in a lobby with legitimate ranked players they typically end up dragging their teams down and the legit players suffer whilst they simply go reload an old save.

    Let me be the first to admit that I have often harboured thoughts that some of my team-mates in ranked were less honest with their accomplishments. That being said, I mustn't allow myself to use this as a scapegoat for my own misplays.
     
    Mendax, ShadowSlashX and LAG like this.
  16. Elecmaw

    Elecmaw Lord of the Squids

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    Considering winning a match in S rank nets you 5k gold, a single re-roll costs 30k meaning you'll have to win 6 matches to get a 2-1% chance of getting the exact subs you want... I can perfectly understand roll scumming and i don't hate people for doing it. In fact, i might start doing it next splatfest because getting the right E-Liter gear has been driving me insane for the past few months now.

    Rank Scumming, on the other hand... Can't stand it. It's hard for me to understand an Aero RG going 0-14 on average and still maintain his/her rank. The point of ascending rank is to eventually get better so you can carry your team, or at least be a bigger contibutor to the win than everybody else. If you cannot do that or can't exactly deduce why your team failed you the match, then you don't deserve your next rank, simple as that.
    I still think Rainmaker is near impossible to carry, though.
     
    Mendax likes this.
  17. Mendax

    Mendax Pro Squid

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    Kudos to you, bro!
    Personally, if I ever see an S ranker in my lobby, I always assume he/she has earnt it, even if I beat them. Granted, the chances of a player such as myself beating a legit S ranker are slim, but you never know the circumstances: perhaps I got a team that carried me to victory, or they got a really bad one. Perhaps they're having a bad day, and are finding it difficult to remember a cetain strategy. I dunno about you guys, but I forget techniques a lot.

    Now, I've got a question about Scumming for rank. Y'see I just got to A-, though I was in a Squad, and cannot rule out luck as a factor. As such, I've got a feeling that, despite having not scummed in the traditional way, I am undeserving of my rank. I'd like to improve, so here's my idea:
    1) kick myself down to A- 0, or as close as I can get to it without de-ranking.
    2) make a backup of my save, at A- 0.
    3) play nothing but solo queue, and replace my save with the A- 0 backup after every match, regardless of whether I win or lose. That way, I won't be kicked out, but I also won't progress.
    4) continue this pattern until I am able to hold my own in A rank, and perhaps even carry successfully.
    5) the minute I know I can hold my own, I set myself at A- 0, delete my backup, and then have to reach S rank legit, no matter what. If I get kicked to B, tough luck.

    Now, I do realise there are some problems with this. For one, until I can hold my own, I am still being a hassle for my team-mates, giving them undeserved losses.
    An alternative that I have considered is making a private match with 7 A/S rankers, though this would be incredibly hard to set up and I honestly don't know how much it would help.
    At the moment, the only people I am able to reliably Squad with on a daily basis are a rank or two below me. My only choices are to play matches where I am above my opponents, and therefore undeserving of any ranks I earn, or to put my friends lower than their opponents, giving them a disadvantage and possibly ranking them down unfairly.
    Please keep in mind: I am not attempting to justify Save Scumming in any way. All I want to do is get out of B rank, and stay out, in a way that's fair.
    If you decide that these options carry unfair advantages, I completely understand and will refrain from doing them.
    I've got no idea what I should do. Any advice?
     
    #97 Mendax, Oct 4, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  18. Njok

    Njok Bouncer

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    I'm not sure what you want to hear. You say you're not trying to justify save scumming but that's exactly what your post is doing? I don't mean to sound like a d*ck but honestly you've just literally described save scumming for rank. I don't see why it would matter that you reset after wins too and i don't know you so i don't have a reason to doubt that you would. But in the end, you are backing up to make sure you don't rank down = save scumming.

    Sorry if i sound harsh. The best advice i can think of: Just keep playing and keep trying to improve and you'll get there without scumming at some point.
     
    Damandatwin, Elecmaw and Mendax like this.
  19. Inky Corruption

    Inky Corruption Full Squid

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    Kind of leaning on Njok's statement. If you are serious (or want to be) about Ranked then get to know yourself some first. Pick a good time to play, when you're feeling perky and refreshed. Avoid playing Ranked when you're tired, hungry, stressed or in any state that would take your focus away from the game. If you still decide to play in such a state then you can expect to drop due to sub-optimal performance.

    At the end of the day, there is no shortcut. You win some and you lose some, be it through sub-optimal play or sheer luck of the draw. Even your best days could yield losing streaks just as well as your bad days, so just keep trying. Besides, even if you do drop in rank you should be able to work your way back up to your "rightful" rank without too much trouble anyway.
     
    Mendax likes this.
  20. Mendax

    Mendax Pro Squid

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    Ok, thanks for the info.
    And, on second thought, my post above probably was a bit confusing/hypocritical. Thanks for pointing that out.
    The main thing that frustrates me is that, no matter how well I think I'm playing, I'm always stuck in B+, and I never go higher outside of squads. I've no idea why, but no matter how much I learn, I never seem to improve. I don't know if that has to do with the fact that I don't really fight A ranks that often, and therefore how no idea how their tactics are different from B ranks: the two times I've gotten to A, I've just been thrown straight back down.
    I'll take your advice into account over the following week, see how I go.

    (Maybe I should play a few matches, and then find areas that I can improve in? I know Map Awareness isn't my strong point, so perhaps I should start with that. I suppose I should stick with Solo Queue, as well.)
     
    #100 Mendax, Oct 4, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015

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