Should the kit system return for Splatoon 4?

[isaac4]

I'm sure this is a topic that's already been discussed in another thread before but now that we're done with every 2nd kit and the quality of the new kits for Sizzle Season '24 have also been extremely good, would the kit system coming back be a good choice or should we get something different so we don't up with weapons being stuck with two terrible kits?

 

[Grushi]

I'm not against a system change but I'm worried the game would become way harder to read.
You already have your opponent's gear abilities to check at the start of the game, adding on a custom kit to remember is a lot, even if it's not fully customizable. Honestly I... kind of like the kit system. I think they're fun to think about and to look forward to. Even if we only get two kits per weapon I still think I'd rather have this than fully custom kits.

I'm kind of worried the game would become really stale with custom kits, everyone would use the same bombs, the same kill specials... It's just kind of boring. And yes I know that's mostly a balance issue but realistically I don't expect the devs to suddenly give us like two patches a month next game, nor do I want them to.

I just wish nintendo would pay more attention to the kits they're adding to the game, though from what I can tell they're trying to make kits based on playstyles more than balance or synergy.

• Dread D: little structure spam, literally, litter the map with your tiny location objects
• Custom Jet: Toned back s2 vjet with a 180p displacement special + mist
• Custom Explo: Aggro explo with tools to defend itself
• Vanilla undercover brella: Use mines to bait people into combo tools and use slider once they're weak
• Gold aerospray: Paint the entire map

These kits are kind of weird and don't fulfill the weapons' full potential but I kind of understand that the devs want to add varied playstyles to the game, even if some of these just don't work.

And overall, I think I prefer s3's kits over s2's, at least fun-wise. That's probably because the specials are more fun to use overall but I think the devs have improved at making kits, though this season is still an outlier.

And heck, I would have never even considered using mist on recycled brella, I completely wrote it off when it was revealed, but it turns out that it's got way better synergy than I expected, so kits let the devs show some odd synergy that you wouldn't expect at first.


tl;dr I honestly like most kits, and I feel like a system change could do more harm than good

Edit:
I do go back and forth on this topic though, there are good reasons for keeping and ditching the kit system. I just want to oppose the idea that keeping kits is an inherently bad idea and that custom kits would be saving the game and stuff.
As they are, I'm still happy with the kits we have in the game, though I could be happier.

 

[isaac4]

I'm not against a system change but I'm worried the game would become way harder to read.
You already have your opponent's gear abilities to check at the start of the game, adding on a custom kit to remember is a lot, even if it's not fully customizable. Honestly I... kind of like the kit system. I think they're fun to think about and to look forward to. Even if we only get two kits per weapon I still think I'd rather have this than fully custom kits.

I'm kind of worried the game would become really stale with custom kits, everyone would use the same bombs, the same kill specials... It's just kind of boring. And yes I know that's mostly a balance issue but realistically I don't expect the devs to suddenly give us like two patches a month next game, nor do I want them to.

I just wish nintendo would pay more attention to the kits they're adding to the game, though from what I can tell they're trying to make kits based on playstyles more than balance or synergy.

• Dread D: little structure spam, literally, litter the map with your tiny location objects
• Custom Jet: Toned back s2 vjet with a 180p displacement special + mist
• Custom Explo: Aggro explo with tools to defend itself
• Vanilla undercover brella: Use mines to bait people into combo tools and use slider once they're weak
• Gold aerospray: Paint the entire map

These kits are kind of weird and don't fulfill the weapons' full potential but I kind of understand that the devs want to add varied playstyles to the game, even if some of these just don't work.

And overall, I think I prefer s3's kits over s2's, at least fun-wise. That's probably because the specials are more fun to use overall but I think the devs have improved at making kits, though this season is still an outlier.

And heck, I would have never even considered using mist on recycled brella, I completely wrote it off when it was revealed, but it turns out that it's got way better synergy than I expected, so kits let the devs show some odd synergy that you wouldn't expect at first.


tl;dr I honestly like most kits, and I feel like a system change could do more harm than good

Edit:
I do go back and forth on this topic though, there are good reasons for keeping and ditching the kit system. I just want to oppose the idea that keeping kits is an inherently bad idea and that custom kits would be saving the game and stuff.
As they are, I'm still happy with the kits we have in the game, though I could be happier.

I agree with a lot of this.
The kit system isn't actually a bad way to balance weapons and give different ways to use them but the problem always comes down to the way the devs distribute subs/specials and how they refuse to buff weaker kit options.
That's also why the idea of getting rid of the kit system entirely is so appealing, people are just tired of waiting to see if their weapon will be lucky enough to get something they like and hopefully not be stuck with something like Angle Shooter or Slider.

The Sizzle Season '24 kits give me a bit of hope that they have a better understanding on what works but they still haven't buffed the weaker subs in the game so who knows if they'll just go back to making stuff like Neo Sploosh.
I really wish we had 3rd kits so we could see a bit more of what they consider good for a certain weapon and if their kit design from this season wasn't just a one time thing.

I still like the kit system though but I wouldn't mind a completely new system, it'd be nice to see how they could possibly deal with sub/special distribution in new ways.

 

[missingno]

There's a quote from Gem that I think expresses the problem perfectly:

In S2, if you liked a special, there was probably a weapon you could play that had it. I don't feel that way in this game, and I don't like that.

Consider some examples of things you can't play in Splatoon 3:

• A Shooter, Splatling, Brella, or Stringer with Zipcaster.
• A Dualie, Brella, Blaster, Brush, Stringer, or Splatana with Kraken.
• A Roller, Charger, Dualie, Blaster, Brush, Stringer, or Splatana with Inkjet.
• A Splatling, Brella, Blaster, or Stringer with Beakon.
• A Roller, Dualie, Brella, Brush, Stringer, or Splatana with Fizzy Bomb.
• A backline weapon with Trizooka.
• A backline weapon with Crab Tank.
• A backline weapon with Torpedo.
• A backline weapon with Burst Bomb.
• A Stringer with any good kit at all.

I used to think kits were cool back in S1 and 2. But as the number of main, sub, and special weapons have grown, kits become increasingly unsatisfying because of how many gaps they leave. If you want to play something specific, you may not find any permutation close enough to what you actually want. And since I doubt Nintendo would ever try to trim the fat and cut back, each game has to be bigger than the last because that's what consumers expect, this problem will only get worse if Splatoon 4 keeps going from here.

At this point the only real argument in favor of kits is that the game as we know it is balanced around them. If you took Splatoon 3 as it is now and let everyone freely pick Burst Bomb/Trizooka on every main weapon, that would be bad.

But the counterargument is that a brand new game can be properly redesigned around a different system. Just because it won't fit into Splatoon 3 doesn't mean Splatoon 4 can't be made to fit.

 

[Smash Arena]

I definitely prefer having kits, it gives each weapon a unique identity and also allows for preparation to fight specific kits. Additionally, I do think there are some weapons that just shouldn't have certain Sub Weapons or Specials, so kits allow for developers to avoid broken combos from appearing.

While a kit-less Splatoon game could be fun, I could definitely see it causing more harm than good.

 

[Cephalobro]

I agree, kits are necessary to avoid creating broken combos. Do you really want to deal with a Sploosh or Ink/Octobrush with a Burst Bomb? Or a Hydra with Ink Storm?

Yeah, those combinations would be a nightmare to deal with.

 

[Catloafman]

Theres a pretty easy solution to this
just add WAY more kits especially if Splatoon 4 somehow has more specials than s3 we need like 4-5 kits per weapon

 

[missingno]

Additionally, I do think there are some weapons that just shouldn't have certain Sub Weapons or Specials, so kits allow for developers to avoid broken combos from appearing.

I agree, kits are necessary to avoid creating broken combos. Do you really want to deal with a Sploosh or Ink/Octobrush with a Burst Bomb? Or a Hydra with Ink Storm?

You're looking at this through a Splatoon 3 lens. Splatoon 4 can be a different game that simply doesn't allow for anything this broken to begin with. There are lots of other ways to tackle this problem, it doesn't have to be through kits.

Consider that games like TF2 let you have any loadout you want, and it works there because that game is designed around it. Why couldn't Splatoon 4 also be designed around it?

 

[Smash Arena]

You're looking at this through a Splatoon 3 lens. Splatoon 4 can be a different game that simply doesn't allow for anything this broken to begin with. There are lots of other ways to tackle this problem, it doesn't have to be through kits.

Consider that games like TF2 let you have any loadout you want, and it works there because that game is designed around it. Why couldn't Splatoon 4 also be designed around it?

Good point, that could also give 4 the shakeup it so-desperately needs. 3 definitely feels stagnant in terms of new ideas.

 

[WIP Riley]

Probably, look I hate how restrictive the kit system can be, but what else would the solution be?
If we let people play custom kits the meta would be completely destroyed in its current form because everyone would run the most unfair combinations known to man

Playing burst zooka splash or k52 again would be hell, and it would bring so many weaponds down

Entire weapond classes would be obsolete because in a world with custom kits there is no way to keep a balance between the good and bad main weapons

And some mains just have to be bad, dynamo and hydra would break the game given the chance

So what would be the solution? Remove subs and specials completely? That's just gonna bring the same issue

 

[Aiko.Octo]

mostly echoing other here but I think the kit system is fine; it's only a 'problem' because there are too many undesireable subs/specials and not enough kits in general. I feel like treating those issues would lead to a better game than just leaving subs/specials in the game that no one wants and then just giving people the option to not use them as a 'fix'.

 

[missingno]

in its current form

As I've said above, my argument is that we should destroy the current form, in order to rebuild a new system from the ashes. I'm not picturing Splatoon 4 to merely be S3+custom kits, I want it to come with bigger changes that will set the game apart.

 

[WIP Riley]

I feel like that's a very old bridge you're trying to go across, it might end up bring a far inferior system

How do you propose you help weaker main weaponds? Do you just want luna blaster to have a unfair radius again?

 

[Tinybitt]

Yeah, to be honest it all depends on what subs and specials come back in S4 and what will be the new ones they’d add. I feel like the TF2 “Pick your own play style” can technically work, but we really have to see what specials/subs they would come up with. Hot take: they might not bring a lot of specials from splat 3. Maybe crab, cooler, booyah bomb and maybe zip.

 

[missingno]

How do you propose you help weaker main weaponds? Do you just want luna blaster to have a unfair radius again?

Are you suggesting the reason we can't try a new system is because low tiers would exist? Low tiers already exist now, so I fail to see how that's an argument.

I don't expect any system to result in 65 different weapons all having perfect balance. That's already not the case and it will continue to not be the case no matter what they do.