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The Game feels ruined for casuals

Discussion in 'Regular Discussion' started by Nukester, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. Nukester

    Nukester Inkling

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    For those of us that just like to INK, a lot of us have quit playing. There needs to be a new mode where weapons do less damage and very short range. As it is now, the game play is simply terrible. Use to love this game, but now it is just about killing. Way too competitive for those that like to just INK. Splatoon 1 was much better in this respect.
     
    Flopps and ※Zachary like this.
  2. Mr. Squiggly Squid

    Mr. Squiggly Squid Inkling Commander

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    I’m casual when I play and I haven’t had any problems like this. Everyone has a different experience. I’m sorry yours hasn’t turned out all that well but there’s no need to think everyone’s having the same issues.
     
    #2 Mr. Squiggly Squid, Jan 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  3. The Salamander King

    The Salamander King Inkling Commander

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    I do like your idea about a new mode mostly focused on painting (besides Turf War) but one of the best uses for turf war is testing out new weapons, so nerfing them all into Aerosprays isn't only boring for people because they would all be nearly identical in function, but also nearly useless for competitive players (which I suppose is what you want).

    Here's the problem with separating the casual and competitive communities:

    1. People want the world to take Splatoon seriously as an esport, so permanently separating the communities makes it 2x more difficult.
    2. If the 2 were as separate as you seem to want, it would be extremely difficult to get into competitive. The casuals would look at the big players as if they were tryhards that live in their mom's basement, and the competitive side would look down on the casuals like bugs.
     
  4. calamaro

    calamaro Inkling Commander

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    You could always try to find a 'casual' group and set up ink only private matches?
     
  5. Green Waffles

    Green Waffles Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    @Nukester Weird. this the first complaint I've noticed in a while regarding turf war difficulty, let alone for splat2.

    I have not really looked into/heard anything regarding splat2 lobby making, but in splat 1, they did a pretty good job of separating players based on play-style(roughly)
    -My friends who played predominately turf wars and went for the ink and run tactics were put into relatively chill lobbies (low overall splat count)
    -I would get very tryhard lobbies: heavy rush and hold mid like it was a splat zone, ink spawn little by little each time you respawned on your way back to the action, kinda lobbies.

    I've since assumed splat2 works of a similar, if not the very same kind of lobby making, since this is the first complaint I've seen or heard like this (all the complaints have been lobby wait times, regional only, that sort of stuff).

    My guesses would be
    -you have the misfortune of jumping into queue the same time of day as a lot of competitive squids with very few casual squids
    -lobbymaking has been changed (maybe focuses more on weapons/team comp than splat and turf count)
    -lobbymaker just hates you (not a joke, it is a possibility. I used to to try SO HARD to get squid parties started back in splat 1, rarely happened. Meanwhile, @Dessgeega was plagued by never-ending squid party lobbies. No matter the algorithm/science/hoodoo magic they put on lobby making, some rng always seems to be present.)
     
    #5 Green Waffles, Jan 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  6. ※Zachary

    ※Zachary Semi-Pro Squid

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    Hehehe. Blame people like me that use turf war to sharpen up on our Competitive Skills but don't want to hop right into solo ranked quite yet. :) Or maybe we are working on a new weapon and want to see how many splats we can rack up with it.

    I'll try to play turf war more casually. I don't want to see tournament players like me ruin your day in a Turf War. :p :)
     
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  7. Slushious

    Slushious Token Party Squid
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    Pretty much what Green Waffles just said. I do remember (quite fondly) Splat1 would match you based on your play style. I want to say it seems like Splat2 uses a Splatfest type power level system for Turf, just...without showing you your power level for some reason.

    The reason I say this is because it's been my experience thus far to get into a lobby, have a great old time doing my thing as a Filthy Casual...and then all of a sudden it's like I've been tossed into S+ Hell. I then just have to roll with it and lose my way back down to where it's at least a challenge to win instead of my team being curbstomped. Much like Splatfest, hence the guess as to how the matchmaker does things.

    What I can't explain is why everyone over level 40 will be on the same team, or all the lowbies will be on the same team, or the other guys will all be S+9000 or whatever. Weapon comp doesn't seem to have anything to do with it really.

    Splat's gonna do what Splat's gonna do. My advice is just keep lobby-hopping till you find a decent bunch of randos to play with. They're out there; it does depend somewhat on time of day or time of week, as well. You're inevitably going to find more competitive play styles the week before Splatfest.
     
    Nukester, ※Zachary, Ansible and 3 others like this.
  8. Timthegamer12

    Timthegamer12 Inkling

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    I agree totally with you. Even though im nee to the game and almost level 20. I have alot learn also hello everyone! I'm new here.
     
  9. MindWanderer

    MindWanderer Inkling Commander

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    That's my experience, too. When I get on a good win streak, I start finding myself the best player on the losing team a whole lot, and the other team is always hyper-aggressive murder machines. Then after a few losses, I'll start getting placed on solid teams and my opponents will include people who shoot in my direction and never hit me, or ones who I can casually walk up to and splat because they have no awareness. Turf Wars was a lot less frustrating in Splatoon 1; even when I lost badly, it was against players who were doing more or less the same thing as me, just better.
     
    Slushious and Nukester like this.
  10. Mar$el

    Mar$el Inkling Commander

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    I tend to run into squidparties at night and immediately join in :)
     
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  11. LiX

    LiX Pro Squid

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    I do agree that there seems to be a difference on how Turf War is going about in Splatoon 2. In the first game, you'd stumble into lobbies where everything was going slowly and chill. But most often in Sp2 turf battles, you'll feel after a few seconds that these guys are not kidding around.

    To me, there seems to be two extrema. The first, most common lobbies are the ones I described above: Tough battles, players taking it very seriously, sharpening their skills and working on their gear or other stats (money, exp. and so on). Naturally, they will go for the win.
    And I suspect there lies the difference to the prequel: Now that you can use tickets and grind perfect gear or money, people will look to win more persistently because a win makes better use of the ticket. I must admit, I am guilty of doing this too. I grind gear in turf and I actually like that most oftenly, I find lobbies with people who really try.

    What really annoys me is the second extrema, the (fortunately) scarce lobbies with the people who really just joke around, doing silly squidparties and what not. I do the most logic thing then: I super jump into the middle of the squidparty to a partaking teammate and then splashdown, wiping them all. And then I laugh and leave the lobby post batte. It's the only thing that helps me get over them trying to ruin the battle and waste my drink tickets. :p
     
    Nukester likes this.
  12. Mr. Squiggly Squid

    Mr. Squiggly Squid Inkling Commander

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    You sir, are a genius. :cool:
     
  13. Nukester

    Nukester Inkling

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    All, thanks for the replies, it does sort of jibe with my feeling that Splat2 is generally more difficult. Since the game was probably written by Japanese, they are much more competitive than casual.

    I guess I should just "suck" for a while to get in with groups more to my liking? I miss playing, but not when it just isn't any fun. Daughter and I quit playing early December, because we weren't having fun. Christmas was the first spatfest we have ever missed, we just didn't feel like playing with all of the ranked players anymore.

    Would it pay off to just say "heck with the level" and just start fresh with a new toon, level 1, and just ink?
     
  14. Slushious

    Slushious Token Party Squid
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    Honestly, my suggestion would be to hunt for a casual player group - we have a few around here. Once you have some friends, it's a lot more fun to jump in and play with them. I myself can accept even a crushing defeat if it comes at the hands of someone I actually know, rather than some total rando. At that point it's still all in good fun and not necessarily mean-spiritedness.

    On that note, you're welcome to add my friend code if you'd like. My hours are erratic and usually too late-night for most people, but I do play about once or twice a week.
     
    Nukester and ※Zachary like this.
  15. ※Zachary

    ※Zachary Semi-Pro Squid

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    When I see people like you squid party, and splat you and squidbag. Repeatedly.
     
  16. Dessgeega

    Dessgeega Squid Savior From the Future

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    And when I see people like you I report for unsportsmanlike conduct ;)
     
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  17. ※Zachary

    ※Zachary Semi-Pro Squid

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    Lol. Is a squid salty? Can't take the squidbag? :p
     
  18. Dessgeega

    Dessgeega Squid Savior From the Future

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    Unrepentant baggers get the bans they deserve :D
     
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  19. ※Zachary

    ※Zachary Semi-Pro Squid

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    You know, I really wonder if Nintendo actually bans people. I typically squidbag and most of the time I see others do it too.

    I'm highly doubtful banning people for spamming ZL is on Nintendo's priorities list.
     
  20. Dessgeega

    Dessgeega Squid Savior From the Future

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    There's been reports of it happening, enough for me to believe it. And if you're a chronic squidbagger you're setting yourself up for trouble... if nothing else, I guarantee quite a few people here won't want to play with you :p
     
    Hero of Lime and ※Zachary like this.
  21. ※Zachary

    ※Zachary Semi-Pro Squid

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    Eh, I wouldn't consider myself one of a chronic nature. But more of a gimmick in Turf War. Squid bagging in ranked is utterly stupid. The time one would spend rubbing the salt in is nearly equivalent to the time is takes for the enemy to respawn. It's practically a trade in my eyes. As for people not wanting to play with me, eh, I probably wouldn't want to play with them anyway. Unless of course we are talking tournaments here. Then oh boy, bring it on. :p (I do appreciate the insight about people actually getting banned.)
     
  22. LiX

    LiX Pro Squid

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    In my view, Squidbagging and Squid Parties are really among the things that ruin it for casuals aswell.

    Imagine a scenario in which a casual guy just boots up the Switch and wants to play a turf or two to level him up further so he can eventually buy all the weapons or something. But he doesn't have a lot of time to play, since his lady is preparing dinner. So he wants to make the most of it.
    Then he's thrown into a lobby where a squidparty is going on. His teammates are partaking and so are two of the enemy. The few players who are actually playing the game as intended are sadly two pro guys in the enemy team who ignore their two squidpartying mates. Casual will get stomped in that battle, because his teammates weren't doing anything, whereas the two enemy pros were painting like their life was on the line. After the battle, his wife will call for dinner. Oops, the squidparty kids who were just "having fun" just ruined the gaming experience for a casual. On the dinner table, he's not gonna recommend trying out that new colourful shooter to his girl...

    Needless to say, squidbagging will annoy casuals even more than pros. Imagine you're a casual struggling with the game and this one guy splatting you all the time already gets you salty enough. And then after the 4th time killing you, he squidbaggs on your inky remains. Also ruins gaming experience.

    I'm a pretty rational guy. my criticism doesn't revolve around snowflakery on my part. It's simple logic: If you're gonna be a douche, you scare away players, mostly casuals. But I want Splatoon to flourish, I want it big. I want it to be a game for casuals and pros alike. So I advocate for stopping any unneeded behaviour that's gonna make people go away.

    In all honesty, Sp2 getting pay to play sometime will already scare away enough casuals... Let's not push it even more.
     
  23. Red_Hero

    Red_Hero Inkling

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    Speaking as one who has come from casual splatoon 1 play and now heavy into splat2oon, I haven't really noticed this issue. I play Turf War with the focus on spreading ink and only focus on the kill if there's a squid in front of me. I win majority of my matches this way ( teammates and opposing team being factors to this of course. ) At no point till I jumped into Ranked Mode did I ever have to adjust my playstyle to focus away from spreading ink. Just my opinion and experience though.
     
  24. MeTaGross

    MeTaGross Inkling Cadet

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    I absolutely despise squidbagging because it is never about one person being better than another. I don't consider myself great, but I think I'm pretty good and I usually have some of the most coverage in a battle or one of the best K/D's in the battle. In my experience, the only time anyone ever squidbags is when my team is missing a player or one of our players is just a complete idiot. I cannot carry a team under these circumstances (usually) so when Joe comes over with his top meta weapon and skill equal to mine I can't do anything and he starts squidbagging, and because we are down a player it is nearly impossible to fix this during the battle.

    Basically, if you're going to be a **** then at least make sure you are without question the best player in the lobby, or just don't be a ****. This really is something that could drive away many casuals.
     
  25. ※Zachary

    ※Zachary Semi-Pro Squid

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    Oh lol. I'm not trying to be mean. :p but umm, not trying to sound full of my self, but I usually am the best player in the lobby. I typically have about 15-20 splats at the end of every Turf War and I always have the most Turf covered.
     
  26. LiX

    LiX Pro Squid

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    So you view having the subjective thought of being "the best player in the lobby" as a good reason to squidbag people in Turf War and ridicule them? That's an interesting approach. Could you explain why you think that's a good idea and how that supports keeping players in the game and not making casuals quit?

    Secondly, I'd like to challenge your argument of "always scoring 15-20 kills". I've played with some people who I deem really, really good. And even them don't manage that. It doesn't have anything to do with their lack of skill, but with the nature of the battle. Some Turf Wars tend to be fought rather defensively, so that there simply is not a big number of kills scored. In such battles, I'd say, it is impossible to come close to even 15 splats, given the style of the battle being fought and the 3 minute time limit.
     
    #26 LiX, Jan 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  27. The Salamander King

    The Salamander King Inkling Commander

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    Basically, just don't squidbag. Nobody likes it when they're trying to win a game.
     
  28. Mar$el

    Mar$el Inkling Commander

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    Basically regardless of who you are or what you wanna do you're gonna have to have a good attitude about it. People payed 60 bucks for this game and 300 for their switch and you can't control what they do, so it's on yourself to have a better attitude if you wanna get the most out of your experience. All in all, heavy squidbaggers and squidparties don't really take up a majority of matches. If I see a squidbagger I usually just chuckle a bit and move on. If they happen to be pretty good and kill and squidbag me like 2 or 3 times in a row (which has in 520 hours of this game only happened like 4 times maybe) then I kill them out of spite and give em a quick bag. Funny after I do that we usually win. Anyways, on to squidparties. I like them, but sometimes yeah I'm grinding for chunks and I wanna win. Well you got a couple options. They're not gonna stop because this is the experience they payed hundreds of bucks for. So, you can join and have some fun, you can ignore them, or if you're grinding do what I do and partially join them. I'll throw sprinklers around while partying and kill people on the other team who are trying then go back to it. Now if you're a casual then this might be a little challenging, but I don't think of casuals as the type of people who grind gear and get angry at a game. If you don't like a lobby, leave it. If you absolutely despise squidparties and if you see another one you're gonna explode, then either play something else, play ranked, or salmon run, or hero mode. You can't control what other people do and if you let your feelings be dictated by that fact you're gonna have a horrible experience.
     
  29. mercenariez

    mercenariez Inkling Cadet

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    Squidbagging is fine. If you let a virtual flopping inkling get to you, you need thicker skin, or else good luck in life.

    Banning people for squidbagging is absolutely ridiculous. It’s a mechanic in the game. Squidbagging can even be used to confuse snipers. If you disallow squidbagging, people will just find some new way to taunt you, like the recent one I heard about using Beakons as graves and waving to them. Is that gonna get banned too? What about running in circles after a kill? At some point you just need to let game mechanics be game mechanics.

    Is it rude? Maybe. Some people find it funny, and some people find it motivational so that they can respawn and play better. Some people get angry at it to which I say, chill, it’s just a flopping squid. If you’re that mad, let that anger fuel you and get them back. I don’t mean to say revenge is a virtue, but this is just video games. Sometimes even I get angry, but I usually rebut by dominating any squidbagger, because I can tell they lose focus. If you dominate them for the rest of the match, I can’t imagine you being upset about their first squidbag.

    I agree with Mar$el. It’s people’s money. Let them play how they want to play.

    To OP: There’s usually plenty of people who are down to do that in the Squidboards Discord group or on the Facebook Splatoon group. I sincerely hope people’s competitiveness do not turn you away from the game. I would prefer it if Splatoon has a niche for everyone: whether you just wanna fool around and have fun, or whether you want to be the best slayer in the world.

    And yes, I do think if you restart at level 1, you will find the lobbies easier. I have personally tested this out myself. Competitive this competitive that is not for everyone. I want everyone to have fun with Splatoon. Reset back to 1 and have a great time my friend, along with your daughter.
     
    #29 mercenariez, Jan 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  30. Mr. Squiggly Squid

    Mr. Squiggly Squid Inkling Commander

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    I find it strange how with Splatoon people take squidbagging so seriously it’s kind of scary, yet with teabagging in other multiplayer games, no one gives a crap about it.
     
    zzmorg82, ※Zachary and Mar$el like this.
  31. Dessgeega

    Dessgeega Squid Savior From the Future

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    Other games let players curse and swear directly at players via voice and text. Bagging's one of the only ways to be disrespectful here and people know this. Everything is relative.

    As for your comments about this being the experience people paid hundreds of dollars for, Mar$el, you're right. ALL of us did. So maybe it's a little irksome when someone sets out to have a negative impact on someone else's experience that we all paid for.
    Taunting in fighting games is a mechanic. Using emotes in Dark Souls is a mechanic. Squidbagging is NOT a mechanic, and considering Nintendo will penalize you for as little as taunting too much in Smash Bros, it's obviously something they don't appreciate. Remember, kids play this, and do you REALLY expect people in the 7-13 age range to have "thicker skin"? Really, is it all that difficult to just play the game?
     
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  32. Elecmaw

    Elecmaw Lord of the Squids

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    lol you guys sure love your derailing

    Back on topic though, this game is still at it's heart a third-person shooter. There's bound to be some conflict between players no matter the fact that there's an inking mechanic in the game. You can't just buy this game and expect to only passively paint all day. Removing that sense of conflict would make that game very boring for the most of us.
     
  33. MeTaGross

    MeTaGross Inkling Cadet

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    It's just a different demographic. Splatoon is a Nintendo game and most people that buy it probably want to enjoy the experience, while people that play COD are mainly 10 years old and say things like "yur mom gaey."
    Squidbagging is not a mechanic, it is a taunt, and the purpose of banning squidbaggers is not to stop squidbagging, it is to stop taunting. I don't hate squidbagging as an action, I hate it because it is something only a real POS would start. As I have said before, the only times I encounter squidbaggers is when one team has an absolute disadvantage — a missing player, for example — so the act is a cowardly way of trying to make yourself feel better in some way by making someone else feel worse.

    If you just squidbag for fun, why? It's just stupid, cowardly, and immature.
     
  34. Nukester

    Nukester Inkling

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    No, no no no no no. It's "Ink War". Who inks the most. Just give me a fire hose and leave me alone. I wish they had a shirt that said "don't shoot me, because I don't care. JUST INK".

    ;)
     

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