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Thoughts on an online competitive scene for Splatoon

Undr

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I like the seeding idea for an elimination cup, however what d'you mean by double round robin?


I used to play ETF2L, which is Europe's main TF2 league, for a good couple of years myself along with attending the iSeries LANs, but yeah I'd be interested to see what anyone else with experience would say.
Round Robin wherein during the season each team plays each other twice. One team is designated the "Home Team" and chooses the Stage to be played on. Whenever the next game is the other team is the "Home Team". Think divisional games in Major League sports such as the NFL. Actually, the NFL Divisional games are exactly what I'm referring to now that I think about it, lol.
 

Kat

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Round Robin wherein during the season each team plays each other twice. One team is designated the "Home Team" and chooses the Stage to be played on. Whenever the next game is the other team is the "Home Team". Think divisional games in Major League sports such as the NFL. Actually, the NFL Divisional games are exactly what I'm referring to now that I think about it, lol.
Oh interesting, looked it up real quick just to confirm what I thought it was before I saw the reply. It just depends how many teams sign up I think, double round robin might take too long if we have more than 1 group. It'll take a lot of adjusting and trailing before we do any official leagues no doubt as the timing is something that really needs to be perfected in order to make the leagues smooth and enjoyable. So it's completely possible we could have double round robin or double elimination.
 

Icedise

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Round robin sounds really natural choice to me. Remember that one round in Splatoon doesn't take that long. It can be over in few minutes. If the match is for example a Splat Zone, I can't really imagine that a 100 point round would drag longer than let's say 10 minutes. So teams can easily schedule more than one game per day, even if the games are bo3. So personally I dont think that round robin setup would take too long to go through. Of course experience gives us much better standing point for future leagues and possible tournaments.
 

HaDeeZ

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i agree. i don't think it's absolutely damning for the game but it does make life a bit harder
8 people all trying to search for each other might work but it all depends on, amongst other things, how matchmaking works and the the size of the multiplayer playerbase. If the matchmaking is similar to other console fps games then (theoretically) connection has the most priority which will cause havoc for teams comprised of players that aren't particularly close to each other like a team with 2 east coast and 2 midwest players for example or for say 2 teams that are far a way from each other trying to scrim each other.
 

Flying_Tortoise

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8 people all trying to search for each other might work but it all depends on, amongst other things, how matchmaking works and the the size of the multiplayer playerbase. If the matchmaking is similar to other console fps games then (theoretically) connection has the most priority which will cause havoc for teams comprised of players that aren't particularly close to each other like a team with 2 east coast and 2 midwest players for example or for say 2 teams that are far a way from each other trying to scrim each other.
With the main focus of the game being online multiplayer. I hope these new people of Nintendo (the creators of this IP are new ppl relative to the Mashimoto, and others) have learned something from other fps communities, and know how the connection needs to be great to make the gameplay great.
 

FunkyLobster

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With the main focus of the game being online multiplayer. I hope these new people of Nintendo (the creators of this IP are new ppl relative to the Mashimoto, and others) have learned something from other fps communities, and know how the connection needs to be great to make the gameplay great.
considering the main dev is a fan of other shooter games and nintendo has been vaguely listening to their audience when updating smash and mk8, i think we'll be ok

my biggest worry is how it's going to work at a physical venue. even if LAN is in the game, how are we supposed to transfer over perks? are we not supposed to at all? if so, that means we're playing a different game than the people playing online. not to mention how are we even supposed to get different weapons?

with or without physical tournaments, i think splatoon will have a competitive scene that will survive online pretty healthily, it's just it would be amazing if nintendo was transparent and supportive enough to make this work

we have a month to go before the game comes out, so lets hope they give us more news on how it will work before then...
 

HaDeeZ

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i think splatoon will have a competitive scene that will survive online pretty healthily
Not to beat a dead horse but honestly an online scene can't survive long without private lobbies, relying upon trying to get 8 people matched in matchmaking for teams to be able to scrim and practice isn't good enough. If the game releases without one we will have to make do, one option might be to follow the Smash grassroots route and form local teams that way teams can practice at weeklies and it will be much easier to hold tournaments that way. It wont be impossible to grow the scene but honestly if the option isn't there upon release but one of our first priorities has got to be a coordinated effort to convince Nintendo/the developing studio to add private lobbies.
 

FunkyLobster

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Not to beat a dead horse but honestly an online scene can't survive long without private lobbies, relying upon trying to get 8 people matched in matchmaking for teams to be able to scrim and practice isn't good enough. If the game releases without one we will have to make do, one option might be to follow the Smash grassroots route and form local teams that way teams can practice at weeklies and it will be much easier to hold tournaments that way. It wont be impossible to grow the scene but honestly if the option isn't there upon release but one of our first priorities has got to be a coordinated effort to convince Nintendo/the developing studio to add private lobbies.
at the bare minimum, splatoon will probably work like mk8 where eventually you'll get a high enough rank to the point where you're in matchmaking with competitive players, even if you're mostly working alone

there's got to be some way you can join with several of your friends into a room though, even if it's not private with adjustable rules. the devs are people who've been playing shooter games like cod for fun, i think they know the importance of having rooms with several friends, even if they imposed limitations on it

not to mention the only source that we have that says we don't have private rooms only says 'the game won't have private rooms like smash bros' which is very misleading
 

HaDeeZ

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the devs are people who've been playing shooter games like cod for fun, i think they know the importance of having rooms with several friends, even if they imposed limitations on it
I agree, but at the same time the developers are beholden to the desires of Nintendo and you never know with them seeing how anti-competitive they have always been so we will have to wait and see. Hopefully the developers will communicate with the competitive community of their game.

Round Robin league play with a playoff bracket is definitely the way to go for leagues; they do the same thing in Halo and CoD as well as Tf2. There is definitely no reason that we can’t have weekly ODCs (One Day Cups) on the weekend or during the week or even both if the interest is there, running in conjunction with any leagues. As they are really straight forward and easy to run, you just seed all teams throw them in a standard single elim bracket and the just play through it all day.

Seeing as Nintendo have neglected to allow us to change the rules I imagine games will be 5 minutes plus overtime so you're looking at something like 10-15 minutes per game. So a Bo3 will take about an hour and a Bo5 will take no more than an hour and a half. So say you have a 32 team bracket (that’s 5 rounds) you can have each round Bo5 so the tournament starts at say 1pm and you have an hour half to play each round. The number of rounds will depend on the number of teams and we can use a mixture of Bo3 and Bo5 if there a lot of teams to make sure the ODC can be finished on time. For example if you have a 128 team bracket (doesn’t necessarily need 128 tams just more than 64, the rest of the teams will get byes) that is like 7 rounds so you can have the first 4 rounds Bo3 and then the final 3 (quarter finals onward) Bo5.


The higher seeded team gets more hosts, (assuming there is private lobby option) the team not hosting will get to choose which side of the map to start on as there will most likely be a favourable starting side on each map. We can either choose to have a pick-ban/veto system for maps or just have map pool for each round. As for seeding the best option would be to develop a points system where you have the first ODC bracket completely randomized and then award points to teams either something like 100 points per win (25 per player) or something like 1st 800, 2nd 600, 3rd-4th 400 and so on and so on for the top 25% of placings. It’s important to have each player get the points so that with the inevitable team changes we avoid the drama that the Halo Pro League has had where the seeding belongs to a team as opposed to the players.
 

FunkyLobster

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I agree, but at the same time the developers are beholden to the desires of Nintendo and you never know with them seeing how anti-competitive they have always been so we will have to wait and see. Hopefully the developers will communicate with the competitive community of their game.

Round Robin league play with a playoff bracket is definitely the way to go for leagues; they do the same thing in Halo and CoD as well as Tf2. There is definitely no reason that we can’t have weekly ODCs (One Day Cups) on the weekend or during the week or even both if the interest is there, running in conjunction with any leagues. As they are really straight forward and easy to run, you just seed all teams throw them in a standard single elim bracket and the just play through it all day.

Seeing as Nintendo have neglected to allow us to change the rules I imagine games will be 5 minutes plus overtime so you're looking at something like 10-15 minutes per game. So a Bo3 will take about an hour and a Bo5 will take no more than an hour and a half. So say you have a 32 team bracket (that’s 5 rounds) you can have each round Bo5 so the tournament starts at say 1pm and you have an hour half to play each round. The number of rounds will depend on the number of teams and we can use a mixture of Bo3 and Bo5 if there a lot of teams to make sure the ODC can be finished on time. For example if you have a 128 team bracket (doesn’t necessarily need 128 tams just more than 64, the rest of the teams will get byes) that is like 7 rounds so you can have the first 4 rounds Bo3 and then the final 3 (quarter finals onward) Bo5.


The higher seeded team gets more hosts, (assuming there is private lobby option) the team not hosting will get to choose which side of the map to start on as there will most likely be a favourable starting side on each map. We can either choose to have a pick-ban/veto system for maps or just have map pool for each round. As for seeding the best option would be to develop a points system where you have the first ODC bracket completely randomized and then award points to teams either something like 100 points per win (25 per player) or something like 1st 800, 2nd 600, 3rd-4th 400 and so on and so on for the top 25% of placings. It’s important to have each player get the points so that with the inevitable team changes we avoid the drama that the Halo Pro League has had where the seeding belongs to a team as opposed to the players.
very well put :)

i expect the game to pretty much copy cods lobby system, where you can set up a private party with friends and join servers with enough room. the only difference being you can't set up an entirely closed off game, considering there's no bots. obviously this is lacking in features, but it's what we can expect at the very least... fill a party with 8 players- yourself, your teammates, and the other team, and youll get into an empty server with a gamemode of your choice
 

HaDeeZ

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Honestly until the other day I didn't even realize the game is supposed to come out next month, I thought it was going to be a Q4 release. You would think they would have released more details considering the game comes out next month.
 

Flying_Tortoise

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I agree, but at the same time the developers are beholden to the desires of Nintendo and you never know with them seeing how anti-competitive they have always been so we will have to wait and see. Hopefully the developers will communicate with the competitive community of their game.

Round Robin league play with a playoff bracket is definitely the way to go for leagues; they do the same thing in Halo and CoD as well as Tf2. There is definitely no reason that we can’t have weekly ODCs (One Day Cups) on the weekend or during the week or even both if the interest is there, running in conjunction with any leagues. As they are really straight forward and easy to run, you just seed all teams throw them in a standard single elim bracket and the just play through it all day.

Seeing as Nintendo have neglected to allow us to change the rules I imagine games will be 5 minutes plus overtime so you're looking at something like 10-15 minutes per game. So a Bo3 will take about an hour and a Bo5 will take no more than an hour and a half. So say you have a 32 team bracket (that’s 5 rounds) you can have each round Bo5 so the tournament starts at say 1pm and you have an hour half to play each round. The number of rounds will depend on the number of teams and we can use a mixture of Bo3 and Bo5 if there a lot of teams to make sure the ODC can be finished on time. For example if you have a 128 team bracket (doesn’t necessarily need 128 tams just more than 64, the rest of the teams will get byes) that is like 7 rounds so you can have the first 4 rounds Bo3 and then the final 3 (quarter finals onward) Bo5.


The higher seeded team gets more hosts, (assuming there is private lobby option) the team not hosting will get to choose which side of the map to start on as there will most likely be a favourable starting side on each map. We can either choose to have a pick-ban/veto system for maps or just have map pool for each round. As for seeding the best option would be to develop a points system where you have the first ODC bracket completely randomized and then award points to teams either something like 100 points per win (25 per player) or something like 1st 800, 2nd 600, 3rd-4th 400 and so on and so on for the top 25% of placings. It’s important to have each player get the points so that with the inevitable team changes we avoid the drama that the Halo Pro League has had where the seeding belongs to a team as opposed to the players.
I honestly need to keep this saved somewhere. Cuz that is some good info.
The drama happened b/c the points were attached to the players? So that if they traded teams they kept those points and attributed to the new team correct? so yah team points sound like the way to go
 

FunkyLobster

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Honestly until the other day I didn't even realize the game is supposed to come out next month, I thought it was going to be a Q4 release. You would think they would have released more details considering the game comes out next month.
huh? they've said it's coming out on may since the november 2014 direct, and announced an official may 29th release date on the direct at the start of this month
 

Flying_Tortoise

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Honestly until the other day I didn't even realize the game is supposed to come out next month, I thought it was going to be a Q4 release. You would think they would have released more details considering the game comes out next month.
Mb a nintendo direct next month? o_o
 

HaDeeZ

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I honestly need to keep this saved somewhere. Cuz that is some good info.
The drama happened b/c the points were attached to the players? So that if they traded teams they kept those points and attributed to the new team correct? so yah team points sound like the way to go
No the drama happened because the points were attached to the individual teams themselves as opposed to the individual players. The team captain kept the the points and it was something like if you didn't keep 2 original players then your points got reset. I can't remember the specifics but having each individual player have the points similar to how CoD does it with their MLG pro points system is better. It ensures no problems when rosters change (which might happen a lot) because the seeding is done by adding up the total of all 4 players points.

huh? they've said it's coming out on may since the november 2014 direct, and announced an official may 29th release date on the direct at the start of this month
I wasn't paying much attention lol xD
 

Flying_Tortoise

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No the drama happened because the points were attached to the individual teams themselves as opposed to the individual players. The team captain kept the the points and it was something like if you didn't keep 2 original players then your points got reset. I can't remember the specifics but having each individual player have the points similar to how CoD does it with their MLG pro points system is better. It ensures no problems when rosters change (which might happen a lot) because the seeding is done by adding up the total of all 4 players points.
ok I see. I guess I thought that with the points being attached to the players, then the best players could all team up to get the highest seed, but I suppose that will happen anyways. so ok individual points is better.
Where are we going to keep track of all those points should leagues arrive? Should it be based in the tourney section on squidboards?
What if the Tourney section had a SubSection called "League"
Then each league can have its own subforum in the League SubSection.. Then have their own threads that indicates points earned by the participants.
Of course there may be quite a few leagues if ppl try to make their own, but the major ones (and more professional ones) could get stickied
 

FunkyLobster

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ok I see. I guess I thought that with the points being attached to the players, then the best players could all team up to get the highest seed, but I suppose that will happen anyways. so ok individual points is better.
Where are we going to keep track of all those points should leagues arrive? Should it be based in the tourney section on squidboards?
What if the Tourney section had a SubSection called "League"
Then each league can have its own subforum in the League SubSection.. Then have their own threads that indicates points earned by the participants.
Of course there may be quite a few leagues if ppl try to make their own, but the major ones (and more professional ones) could get stickied
since there's not a tournament discussion subforum, i think it's fine to keep it in competitive discussion. i think booyah base is where people are supposed to go for discussing loadouts and map metas and whatnot, anyway
 

HaDeeZ

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Where are we going to keep track of all those points should leagues arrive? Should it be based in the tourney section on squidboards?
Yup, something along the lines of a thread in the comp forum (would be easier if it was stickied) that tracks the points of ever player whose played in at least one ODC and earned points.

Then each league can have its own subforum in the League SubSection.. Then have their own threads that indicates points earned by the participants.
Of course there may be quite a few leagues if ppl try to make their own, but the major ones (and more professional ones) could get stickied
Im not sure if you mean just a thread to show how many points the people in that league have earned or if you mean having points in the league. Just in case its the latter (ignore me if its not) I just want to make sure its clear that the points would be separate from the league or leagues. Teams don't need to be seeded in the leagues because they would be RR and the league playoffs would be seeded based upon league standings. You could maybe award some points for league games or for the teams in the play-off tournament but thats kinda unfair to teams and players not in the league and it also creates extra logistical issue in deciding how many points it would be and would it be the same for each league or more in certain leagues etc. so its not really worth it to incorporate the points system in the leagues.
 

Flying_Tortoise

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Yup, something along the lines of a thread in the comp forum (would be easier if it was stickied) that tracks the points of ever player whose played in at least one ODC and earned points.



Im not sure if you mean just a thread to show how many points the people in that league have earned or if you mean having points in the league. Just in case its the latter (ignore me if its not) I just want to make sure its clear that the points would be separate from the league or leagues. Teams don't need to be seeded in the leagues because they would be RR and the league playoffs would be seeded based upon league standings. You could maybe award some points for league games or for the teams in the play-off tournament but thats kinda unfair to teams and players not in the league and it also creates extra logistical issue in deciding how many points it would be and would it be the same for each league or more in certain leagues etc. so its not really worth it to incorporate the points system in the leagues.
Ok I see, thanks for bringing that up. Makes sense. So the points follow the player no matter the league they are in.
 

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