Splatoon 2 Weapon Viability

[The Salamander King]

So before I start this, I want this to be a place where all bias is nonexistant. Where we can talk about weapons like they should be talked about. We should be able to have a civilized converstion, weather you agree with the other person or not.
With that, let's start this off.

I see people all the time asking about weapons. They say things like "is this weapon good?" or "I main this weapon, do you think I should?" and people always say the same thing.

"Oh, if you like the weapon, you should use it."

This is horrible advice for newcomers, and in general. Whenever I see people saying things like this, I put some of my two cents in and tell them the truth ("The Flingza Roller is bad because it gets countered by nearly every shooter in the game and is just a worse Splat Roller. I would not recomend using it") and back up my claims with facts. It is at that point when everyone in the thread seems to turn against me and consider me a "bully".

This is disgusting. People are so afraid of offending people at this point that nobody will try and combat a point they don't agree with if they are in the minority. This needs to stop, and this thread was made to try and stop it.

Some people believe that every weapon is just as good as the next if you use it well. This is false in every way, and yet I see a ton of people saying things like this all the time. Some weapons are objectively better than others, and the people of Squidboards need to realize this.

This thread will be a place where anyone can drop their opinions (all must be fact-based) and Ideas. Be warned, however, that you will have to prove your stance. Many people will agree and disagree with you, prepare debate.

 

[Elecmaw]

"If you like the weapon, you should use it" is actually valid advice. This is ultimately a game, not a chore. Most people play games to just have fun, and not for sport.
If you're invested in competitive, then yes, you should mind the meta. But most of us are not even slightly interested in that. Most of us are just here to have fun trying out new weapons and figure out how they work. If we told newbies to stick with N-Zaps, they'll quit within a week of boredom after just running around the map and occasionally pressing the right bumper trigger to win.

And even then, people trying out weapons outside the meta is how it can develop and change. People first thought bubble blower was utter trash, and if we stuck with that attitude it'd stay trash. But people still kept experimenting with it and fount out it was actually very useful with specific strategies in mind. Forcing people to blindly adhere to the meta will just stagnate the meta in return.

There is a tactful way of delivering information, and that's not what you are doing right now. Bluntly telling someone to stop using their main will not get them to change their attitude. It'll just make you look like an elitist prick.

 

[ThatOneGuy]

Well, playing the "meta", only applies to competitive players, players who take the game seriously and want to climb the ranks. Casuals (which is the majority of the community) play the game for fun, and whatever gets them to that goal of "having fun" will do it. People who are actively seeking to try and better their game. So, we shouldn't waste our time trying to force this mentality on casual players.

This is disgusting. People are so afraid of offending people at this point that nobody will try and combat a point they don't agree with if they are in the minority. This needs to stop, and this thread was made to try and stop it.

Most of the time, people say that, not in fear of hurting their feelings, but to keep them consistent and interested with the game. Say someone is an E-Liter main (not the most viable weapon right?), so what do you do in this situation, if they ask you "should I switch my main, all I've used is the E-Liter, and I've been consistent with it."?

You don't immediately tell them, "Hey play N-Zap 85 dork". Try to give them something they're familiar with. Try to relish in the points as to why their weapon isn't the greatest.
Say "E-Liter has a really long charge time and doesn't have the range it used to have, plus the kits aren't much to write home about"

Because if you just tell them "Hey your weapon is trash, throw it out." They will:
Be less inclined to take your advice since you were rude to them, and they might lose their interest in the game because someone was toxic to them. And they don't want to be in a toxic community. We're here to help people, not make them quit before they can try.

Some people believe that every weapon is just as good as the next if you use it well. This is false in every way, and yet I see a ton of people saying things like this all the time. Some weapons are objectively better than others, and the people of Squidboards need to realize this.

You're somewhat right here. For our purposes, meta weapons are better than most weapons. However, if you can play a non meta weapon better than a meta weapon, what's the point of trying to use the meta weapon to win? If you win more with your non meta pick. Since the goal is "try to win". Ideally, you want to be good at the meta weapons. But there's nothing wrong with being exceptionally good with something like the dapple dualies, especially if it helps your team composition out more and it helps your team win more.

I think there is a line to say "Don't play x weapon, it's so bad and there are many other options", but most weapons in this game are viable to use in competitive play. Sure, some require some elbow grease to get used to, but they aren't obsolete by any means. Even if they aren't explicitly "meta", they can be threats in their own rights.

However, I'll get the ball rolling on this thread. I'll suggest a weapon to see what you think about it.

My weapon of choice is the Range Blaster.
A weapon that has fallen out of the immediate meta and dislikes the all the ink armors around it. However, that still doesn't mean this weapon can tear teams in two like a beast. With a mid range one shot kill, a nice two shot indirect kill, allowing for easy picks without line of sight. This weapon greatly benefits that it can one shot close range flankers if aimed precisely. This is where the rapid blasters would fall short. And with a nice kit, suctions and rain cloud, it can help the range blaster cover it's main weakness, it's awful painting. The range blaster with some effort behind it can easily become one of the best slaying weapons in the game.

So why isn't it meta right now? The meta has been filled with a lot of ink armor and bubbles. And the range blaster doesn't do well against either of them. It's dps isn't very high to burst bubbles, and against ink armor, the range blaster can't do much to win against that since it fires rather slow. So that lead people to switch to the vanilla blaster, which can fight ink armor easier, and is overall more forgiving.

However, I don't think that the range blaster should be put behind the vanilla blaster. First of all, it can make the same plays with good aim, and it can provide more paint and range for it's team. So I think that it shouldn't be forgotten just because there are easier options.

*EDIT*: Sorry this is so long, just wanted to get my points across

 

[The Salamander King]

I'd like to make some clarification here.
I'm not saying only play meta. I main Jet, definitely not a meta weapon, and I'd still recommend people try it out. I'm saying that there are weapons in this game that are outclassed by others, like Inkbrush, Aerospray, and the like. I see people running Aero all the time, and I ask them "why do you use Aerospray?" 90% of the time they answer with "It's painting is really good." They don't know that other things like Splash-o-Matic and Dapple Dualies paint just as much, but have a lot of other advantages over the Aero. This is what I want to get across to people.

 

[J'Wiz]

I used to be haunted by fact that my favorite weapon, Splat Dualies, wasn't "viable". The main thing I always saw was "Just use Splattershot!". Afterall, Splattershot has a similar playstyle, same sub, objectively better special, and more reliable aim. Instead of spending more time with my weapon and trying to find a way of playing it to set it apart from the Splattershot, I just stopped using it.

I wholeheartedly regret this choice. When I started using Dualies again, I remembered how fun it is to use. Those epic Dualie duels, the cool splats you get from dodge rolling. It was a rush. Unless you're competitive or something, having fun is the most important thing. Not only because I had a better time, but because I play better when I'm enjoying myself.

Of course there's a limit to "use what you enjoy". I recall one piece of advice being "Use whatever weapon you like that can stand within the meta.". I agree with this bit. I don't think we'll recommend some new person use Gloogas or something.

 

[The Salamander King]

I used to be haunted by fact that my favorite weapon, Splat Dualies, wasn't "viable". The main thing I always saw was "Just use Splattershot!". Afterall, Splattershot has a similar playstyle, same sub, objectively better special, and more reliable aim. Instead of spending more time with my weapon and trying to find a way of playing it to set it apart from the Splattershot, I just stopped using it.

I wholeheartedly regret this choice. When I started using Dualies again, I remembered how fun it is to use. Those epic Dualie duels, the cool splats you get from dodge rolling. It was a rush. Unless you're competitive or something, having fun is the most important thing. Not only because I had a better time, but because I play better when I'm enjoying myself.

Of course there's a limit to "use what you enjoy". I recall one piece of advice being "Use whatever weapon you like that can stand within the meta.". I agree with this bit. I don't think we'll recommend some new person use Gloogas or something.

This. You've put it much better than I ever could have.

 

[Windstar]

FILLER TEXT SO I DONT GET WARNED

 

[The Salamander King]

Even though I agree that the Flingza Roller isn’t exactly the roundest Roller in Ammo Knights, I’m just going to have to stop you right there. It’s ridiculous that you have the nerve to start lying and playing the victim card about a fictional weapon’s viability. Here is your discussion in the thread you were talking about:







You both respectfully argue each other’s points and eventually agree to disagree. But now, you say that people come in and call you a bully? Tell me where anybody calls you a bully anywhere in the thread, I’ll wait. I also don’t see anybody not politely arguing against your stance, which you say the complete opposite happens in previously mentioned thread. The hell, dude?

Or, this could be a massive coincidence and if so, I will edit this post to be a GIF of a baby goat falling over.

Ok, calm your nips there bud.
This is one thread. Check the "Main Weapon Question" thread. I sarcastically put a few of my less popular opinions out there, and was taken seriously, thus getting some crap from a few people over and over (specifically one guy who tried to get me banned for it and harassed my on almost every thread I posted on for the following week). I suppose the word "bullied" was a bit hyperbolic, but I wanted to get my point across. A better word would probably be "annoyed to the point of mild disdain", which is actually a sentence but whatever.

Also, that comment about me being able to respectfully argue was nice, so I thank you for that.

 

[Windstar]

Ok, calm your nips there bud.
This is one thread. Check the "Main Weapon Question" thread. I sarcastically put a few of my less popular opinions out there, and was taken seriously, thus getting some crap from a few people over and over (specifically one guy who tried to get me banned for it and harassed my on almost every thread I posted on for the following week). I suppose the word "bullied" was a bit hyperbolic, but I wanted to get my point across. A better word would probably be "annoyed to the point of mild disdain", which is actually a sentence but whatever.

Also, that comment about me being able to respectfully argue was nice, so I thank you for that.

Ah, I see. I thought you were talking about “Is the Flingza Roller good” thread. I didn’t even see what you were talking about before you mentioned it.

Even though it wasn’t really a coincidence and more of a misunderstanding, you get a cute goat GIF.

 

[Padre]

What ever anyone says, E-Liter 4k is a really bad sniper. :)
It needs even more range or something.

 

[ThatOneGuy]

What ever anyone says, E-Liter 4k is a really bad sniper. :)
It needs even more range or something.

As it hurts me to say as a previous E-Liter main, the weapon is terribly underpowered. A long charge time for barely any range difference just doesn't justify it's use on a team. And on top of that, it's kits are both unappealing (even though one has those amazing bubbles), it has that 10% swim speed decrease, and other weapons do it's job much better without half the hassle.

Do you like sniping? Use the regular splat charger since it has a similar range, with a much faster charge time and kits that blow away the E-liter's by comparison. You could even use the goo tuber and justify it's use over the E-Liter right now. At least the goo tuber can store at any charge and kill in about the same time as a splat charger with the recent buff.

If you want to be an anchor, there are better weapons for that too. Do you want to keep using bubbles? Heavy Deco. Do you want to get more consistent picks and keep rain cloud, play rapid pro. You could use the jet squelcher if you want to be a ranged threat as well, the kits are good.

E-Liter just doesn't have a place right now, even though it's an incredibly hard weapon to use and master.

 

[NPDgames]

There are four current weapon categories in my mind.

Meta-God
N-Zap 85
Sloshing machine
Blaster
Other popular competitive weapons. For the most part pretty easy and strong

High skill weapons
Chargers and the like, crazy strong but take so much percision you could just rock a normal weapon or a Meta-God so much better.

Normal Weapons
Everything else. you can do fine with any of them, don't need to care about what others think



Trash:
Tenta Brella, Undercover Brella, Eliters
Just don't. Please don't

 

[The Salamander King]

There are four current weapon categories in my mind.

Meta-God
N-Zap 85
Sloshing machine
Blaster
Other popular competitive weapons. For the most part pretty easy and strong

High skill weapons
Chargers and the like, crazy strong but take so much percision you could just rock a normal weapon or a Meta-God so much better.

Normal Weapons
Everything else. you can do fine with any of them, don't need to care about what others think



Trash:
Tenta Brella, Undercover Brella, Eliters
Just don't. Please don't

Your Trash category is SO spot on!

 

[AllToonedUp]

There are four current weapon categories in my mind.

Meta-God
N-Zap 85
Sloshing machine
Blaster
Other popular competitive weapons. For the most part pretty easy and strong

High skill weapons
Chargers and the like, crazy strong but take so much percision you could just rock a normal weapon or a Meta-God so much better.

Normal Weapons
Everything else. you can do fine with any of them, don't need to care about what others think



Trash:
Tenta Brella, Undercover Brella, Eliters
Just don't. Please don't

I can't really agree with the Tenta/Undercover brella being "trash" since at least Tenta has a very strong shield and it received nothing but buffs that truly help the weapon as the patches go on and that's not even accounting the fact that releasing the shield + using Bubble Blower is by far the easiest way to pop the bubbles than any other weapon in the game even with Object Shredder.

While Undercover's niche (holding ZR doesn't deploy the shield but you can shoot while holding ZR) can literally be bypassed from tapping ZR instead of holding the shield up to preserve it until the moment is right. Not only that but some weapons flat out have a hard time against the shield even though it's weak and it has a better fire-rate and less ink consumption than the Splat Brella.

Neither of them are amazing weapons but they're definitely not the absolute worst either. I'd put them under the "gimmicky but still has a purpose" category. E-Liter's niche isn't even that good anymore since every other charger is a better alternate and E-Liter hasn't been buffed enough to have a reason to pick it up at all when it's a just an inferior version of the Splat Charger.

 

[The Salamander King]

I can't really agree with the Tenta/Undercover brella being "trash" since at least Tenta has a very strong shield and it received nothing but buffs that truly help the weapon as the patches go on and that's not even accounting the fact that releasing the shield + using Bubble Blower is by far the easiest way to pop the bubbles than any other weapon in the game even with Object Shredder.

While Undercover's niche (holding ZR doesn't deploy the shield but you can shoot while holding ZR) can literally be bypassed from tapping ZR instead of holding the shield up to preserve it until the moment is right. Not only that but some weapons flat out have a hard time against the shield even though it's weak and it has a better fire-rate and less ink consumption than the Splat Brella.

Neither of them are amazing weapons but they're definitely not the absolute worst either. I'd put them under the "gimmicky but still has a purpose" category. E-Liter's niche isn't even that good anymore since every other charger is a better alternate and E-Liter hasn't been buffed enough to have a reason to pick it up at all when it's a just an inferior version of the Splat Charger.

Maybe not Undercover, but Tenta is pretty garbage imo. Paints slowly, kills slowly, shield is slow, and the kit isn't very good.

 

[AllToonedUp]

Maybe not Undercover, but Tenta is pretty garbage imo. Paints slowly, kills slowly, shield is slow, and the kit isn't very good.

It's definitely not a great weapon by any means. My point is that despite Tenta being slow and exploitable, it at least has a decent gimmick with Bubble Blower + launching shield and can actually ink turf while E-Liter has almost nothing to it besides range (and even then it's barely better than Splat Charger's range)

 

[ThatOneGuy]

Trash:
Tenta Brella, Undercover Brella, Eliters
Just don't. Please don't

I agree with 2/3rds of this trash list.

I agree with E-Liter being trash because, like me and other people on this post have said "The E-Liter is just a worse splat charger and the E-Liter's drawbacks do not justify it's range. Also, without a kit to help defend up close, the E-Liter dies to rushdown a lot of the time. Making it just an awful weapon overall.

Spoiler: Undercover brella Rant

The Undercover brella I also agree with. Even though it has it's niche of "Shoot with your sheild up" this tactic really only works against shooter players, and even then, the shield tends to under-perform and disappoint. The vanilla splat brella can somewhat simulate this as well. Just firing and shielding from time to time will be much more consistent than having the undercover brella's shield breaking and taking longer to kill with. And with the splat brella's 2 shot kill (being able to score 90 damage on someone) as opposed to the undercover's pathetic 40 damage, the splat brella can reliably counter shooter players much easier than an undercover could dream of.

Not to mention, the undercover brella cannot fight a blaster. If an undercover gets in a 1v1 with a blaster, it's gg for the blaster. As the blaster player can often break the shield in one direct hit, or ignore the tickles from the brella and shoot around the shield. Especially with the pitiful damage output and the awful kit. The splat brella fares much better in this scenario, as it can actually block a couple shots and retaliate with a two shot.

Now to all of you saying "omg ThatOneGuy is such a scrub. The Undercover Brella is a support weapon it doesn't want to get into fights."
I'll say this. The Undercover brella has amazing coverage. The main weapon can paint pretty well actually. However, what kind of support weapon has a kit like this: Ink mine and Splashdown. Splashdown isn't the biggest problem with the kit. Being able to charge at 160p makes it the cheapest splashdown in the game along with the vanilla inkbrush. Even though it has splashdown, it can't reliably combo into it for combat, and it's often forced before the undercover can get close to the target. Which doesn't make it reliable for combat. Ink mines bring the weapon down more since they cannot help the undercover's measly range or help the weapon paint better. Making it a worse splat brella.

Overall, the undercover brella is much like the E-Liter, eclipsed by more practical options.

Spoiler: Tenta Brella thoughts

The Tenta brella I don't agree with being trash. Even though initially it was just a sad weapon, having way too much end lag, and having the shield be way too slow in such a fast paced game, it still had a niche over other weapons. It's massive shield. Being able to block 800 damage by just holding it, and since the shield takes 1/2 damage whenever it's launched, it can tank up to 1600 damage for 6 seconds. Which is just insane. Also, object shredder will not increase damage against the shield either, making it extremely difficult to break a tenta brella's shield once deployed. A tenta brella can block your team from 3 bubbles bursting and still be intact. Which is just insane honestly. And the user can do this without releasing the tenta brella as well.

Shield aside, the main weapon has respectable killing potential as well. Being able to one shot up close, and having nice range for zoning out opponents. It can at least deter people up close unlike the E-Liter and sometimes the undercover brella. It's definitely not a combat oriented weapon. However, I will say it's pretty inconsistent in combat.

And even though the painting isn't all that, you get bubble blower in 170p (which is the cheapest bubble blower in the game tied with custom E-Liter). Which helps your painting and blocking tremendously. And you have some decent range to help you safely paint objectives or harass from afar.

Overall, the tenta brella is a real support weapon. As it actually has kit to help it support it's team. (unlike the Undercover brella) And even though it cannot paint, it does have decent kill potential and a shield that can tank ridiculous amounts of damage. Which is something no other weapon in this game can do. Nothing can simply take a tenta brella's spot on a team, it has a niche. Which makes it a nice part of a team strategy. However, in solo queue, this weapon falls flat as none of it's features can really be utilized there. So I wouldn't call this weapon garbage, I would call it semi viable since it can work if a team allows it to and no other weapon can merely eclipse it.

In trash tier, I would put carbon there as well, as it is overshadowed by the splat roller, and there's no real justification to having a carbon on your team.

 

[Squidilicious]

I agree with the general premise of your post...I think it's good advice to begin with an easier weapon when youre starting out esp starting ranked and then branch out to harder or even nonmeta weapons later. There is enough to take in in ranked (map knowledge, strategy, general awareness, etc) that you don't need to have a weapon with a steep learning curve to boot. Now that I'm pretty experienced I can pick up almost any weapon (excluding chargers) and hold my own in ranked. But I started with mainly easy weapons. And it wasn't boring at all to me to use meta weapons. I still use them frequently and they're just as fun.

I further think that if you bring a nonmeta weapon into ranked and you cannot perform at the level of the rest of your team with that weapon then you are throwing the match. I have no problem with someone bringing the worst weapon in the entire game into one of my ranked matches as long as they can keep up with the team. Also I know everyone has bad games so I would add that if you regularly use an eliter and do well with it and you have one bad game with it obviously that doesn't mean you're throwing.

 

[Saber]

So I do use a the flingza, the eliter 4k, the undercover, and tenta brella.... mainly cause i have a desire to learn every weapon and find a way to use it effectively (plus I'm already S+ so who cares)

But I will definitely say I do not recommend this for a new player, nor a player looking to break into the competitve scene (not unless you have a amazing comp to compensate for your weapons flaws)

Undercoverbrella has a inconsistent shots and a lackluster range all around, unlike other close range weapons which usually have a long range special or sub to balance it out. I do find it useful in clam blitz where your abilities allow you to not pay direct attention to you and allow you to sneak around an ambush players

Tenta, imo has a good place in RM since you can set up beacons and shield the RM for pushes so it works well for support, but it comes at the cost of offensive power and the worst coverage of all the brellas

Eliter 4k feels like the gannon of S2 it is most of the time it is a horrible weapon especially the CEliter, lacking any close range attack, long charge, a serious nerf to it's range, and the loss of the OP attack ability. (Seriously buff the range or shorrten.the charge and it would be 3x better)
But for some reason the initmidation of S1 makes people more cautious then they really should be.

Weapons that I feel have certainly have potential is the carbon roller
A lot of people rate this weapon lower than others in the roller category but it has lots of potential, it has autobombs a quick ttk if sweet spot and inkcloud to make up for it's lack of coverage.
Mainly I feel that you can easily bait people or track them with autobombs and I find it useful across every game mode with a strong choice in RM and Clam Blitz.

I also feel that with the latest buffs the goo tuber is pretty decent choice and could be competitvely viable especially now that partial kill and build up partial charges making it best against close range enemies. But this would only come with experience with all the mechanics of the weapon and knowing when to pick a fight.

Anyways those are my feelings

 

[The Salamander King]

Just a random little blurb here I thought I might bring up.
Despite these threads being listed in Competitive Discussion (to find what is the most effective weapon, strat, ability, etc.), people get sooo butthurt when you call a certain weapon bad. I get it, you like it Inkbrush Nouveu, but the threads in this category are supposed to have a competitive mindset. How can it be competitive when you accept Glooga Dualies as a viable weapon? You can't really say much about it either because, like I said in the original post, they try to shut you up.

I guess I might just be ranting at this point, but it does make me a little irritated.