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Weapons that Completely Replace Others

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by The Salamander King, May 31, 2018.

  1. The Salamander King

    The Salamander King Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    This is for weapons that straight-up outdo other similar weapons.
    For example:
    Splattershot Jr. < Nzap 85
    Aerospray MG < Splash o Matic Neo
    Forge Splattershot Pro < Foil Squeezer
    Foil Flingza < Slosher
    Aerospray RG < Slosher Deco
    Clash Blaster < Sloshing Machine
    Jet Squelcer < Rapid Blaster Pro
    Eliter < Firefin Splat Charger
    .52 Gal < Blaster/Custom Blaster

    I'll also leave this up to compare weapons that are more equal.
    Custom Jet = Heavy Splatling
    Splash Neo = Dapple Dualies
     
  2. AC1

    AC1 Inkster Jr.

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    Look at the top 500 rank X leader board for Splat zone (April and May 2018) and notice which weapons are represented in the top 500 for Splat zone. Repeat this exercise for Tower control, Rainmaker and Clam Blitz.

    Now tell me which weapons are under powered.

    I saw a good variety of weapons represented in the top 500 rank X leader board for Splat zone (April and May 2018) including the sploosh o matic and E-liter 4K.
     
  3. The Salamander King

    The Salamander King Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    Maybe I would do that if I was making a tier list, but I'm not. Besides, solo q isn't a good representation of what weapons are actually good because it's so random and unpredictable.
     
  4. MotorGamer

    MotorGamer Inkling Cadet

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    Clash Blaster > Luna Blaster
     
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  5. Squidilicious

    Squidilicious Inkster Jr.

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    Luna beats undercover sorella?
    Splat roller beats sploosh
    Dualie squelcher beats sploosh neo (as a tenta missile spammer and supportive painter)


    II don' think I agree that the foil squeezer beats the forge (although splat bomb beats suction) or that the splash neo is equivalent to the dapples. Also for some of the others I agree but it kind of depends on your playstyle. A slosher and an aero or a machine and the clash play pretty differently.
     
  6. AllToonedUp

    AllToonedUp Inkling Cadet

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    I'm curious why you think Foil beats Forge when Foil has pretty bad painting and a higher learning curve. I also don't agree with Sloshing Machine beating Clash when they play very differently and Slosh has dropped usage throughout time and is harder to use.
     
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  7. Reila

    Reila Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    I don't care about which one is better, but listen: Higher learning curve has nothing to do with a weapon being better or worse.
     
  8. The Salamander King

    The Salamander King Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    Forge and Foil have the same time to kill, but Foil has longer range, better accuracy, and better painting when in full auto mode. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WnSDbSja9lar_VHZ89r_ix2mFk1KYsony2k71xtZDBc/edit#gid=0

    Clash and Machine are comparable because they are both close-mid range (Clash's blast range reaches Splattershot range) with lethal bombs and Stingrays. Machine is better because of it's higher range and more consistent killing.

    The Splash Neo is a short range fast painting shooter with a bomb rush. The Dapple is the exact same thing except with a Beacon, which doesn't help it on combat like the Burst Bomb does. They are mostly interchangeable depending on the map.

    Sploosh Neo < Octobrush Neauvo would be a better comparison than Dualie Squelchers.
     
    the and AllToonedUp like this.
  9. MINKUKEL

    MINKUKEL Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    None of these 'straight-up outdo' one of the other. None. Unless one weapon is literally a variation of a weapon with one thing tweaked in its favor (say, if the Hero Shot Replica had the firing rate of the upgraded version from the single player - it would be objectively better than the normal Splattershot), this is a thing that doesn't exist. Dapple Dualies have the roll which the Splash doesn't. Jr. is a great weapon and the Custom has a great kit. Eliter has a ton of range more than the Firefin. Clash can harrass and annoy like no other weapon. RBP and Jet Squelcher aren't even almost comparable.

    The closest of this being a thing is the Splatterscope being outdone by the Splat Charger. It doesn't really add any precision to the Splat Charger IMO since the Splat Charger doesn't have enough range for a scope to add anything (unlike the Eliter). Which means that all it does is zoom in the view, meaning you can't see ****. But, for some people it apparentely does help, since people use both the scoped and the non-scoped variants. So, even there you could make a case for either.
     
  10. The Salamander King

    The Salamander King Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    This thread is in regard to the role the weapon plays on a team. The easiest example is Nzap 85 and Jr. With basically the same kit, the Nzap is better because of the added range and movement speed. Rapid Pro is very similar to Jet. Similar range, painting, and kits, but Pro has AOE damage, making it better.
     
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  11. MINKUKEL

    MINKUKEL Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    So? That doesn't change anything.

    If both weapons fulfill a similar 'role' (which is thinking in boxes a bit too much for my taste, but whatever), that doesn't mean that one does that role better than the other. Just because the Rapid Pro has AOE damage doesn't mean that it is better than the Jet Squelcher. Dapples and Splash both are quick inkers and kill rapidly from up close. You could call that a 'role' I guess. But how does that mean that the Dapples are worse?
     
  12. The Salamander King

    The Salamander King Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    If one weapon performs the same role (in the case of Jr and Nzap, armour support) better than another, it means it replaces it, possibly depending on the map.

    I've been maining the Jets for years, so you'd think I know. The Rapid Pro sacrifices a little bit of range for a better kit and much better killing potential. It very much replaces the vanilla Jet's backline support role, especially on TC.

    If you look at the original post, it says that Dapples and Splash Neo are equal. I don't know where you're getting the "Dapples are worse" from.
     
  13. Saber

    Saber Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    Hoenstly this is a good idea, it is good to know where a weapon stands in comparison a similar kit it helps you know how to boost your composition and how to handle enemy comps

    However weapons play more than one role in a game, I emphasized this alot in my player archtypes thread.

    For example yes the Rapid pro has similar range and a better kit, and the aoe would make this a better backline (defender)/ support weapon in comparison to a squelcher

    HOWEVER, the rapid does this at the expense of coverage, making a squelcher a better backline (defender)/ controller (can control the map or the pace of the battle)

    So in an example if you are running a aggressive dive comp on that favors attack but still want a backline than a rapid pro would be a better option
    In a comp that focuses on holding an area of the map or in comp that lacks good coverage (for example most TC or CB comps) a jet squelcher is much more effective than the rapid pro in this scenario

    Lastly though I do agree that in the example of the foil squeezer being a better forge there is a relatively high skill ceiling, and no matter how effective a weapon is ease of use will always take priority over effectiveness
     
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  14. MINKUKEL

    MINKUKEL Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    There are things that the Jet has but the RBP doesn't and things that the RBP has and the Jet doesn't. As long as that is the case, neither 'replace' the other.
    If it were quantitatively different in some ways you could say it, but it's a qualitative difference.

    Not to mention it's not they have the same exact 'role' it that's the word you want to use. They share similar triats, but that doesn't mean their purpose is one-on-one the same.
     
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  15. MotorGamer

    MotorGamer Inkling Cadet

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    Are you literally trash talking one of the best weapons in the game? The jet doesn’t even compare to the Rapid, they are different, but I still think the Rapid Pro is miles in front of the Jet. First off, it has two absolutely amazing kits that help for support and some defense. Next off, I would like to point out that the Rapid Pro does have a little bit of AOE, but not a lot compared to the other Blasters. Remember it has the smallest radius of all blasters. Next I would like to point out how easy it is to kill at range with this thing. Since it still has AOE, it can reach around corners. The Jet? A slow weak shooter that can take forever to kill if your opponent is good at moving around fast. And you saying that the Rapid Pro can’t paint is kind of ridiculous if we are talking the vanilla here. It has Inkstorm thank you very much. It also does more damage per shot, often lay being a 2-3 shot kill, although it might have a 4 shot kill in specific circumstances (shooting at a wall indirectly I believe...). It also has two amazing weapons that help the weapon so much. Poison Mist, which is helpful when you want to apply pressure to opponents, and Splash Wall, which is now good for obvious reasons, helps protect. It has Ink Storm, good for covering, one of the few downsides to this set. Other special is Ink Armor, helps you in the same way as a Splash Wall. If I were to choose a better kit...probably the vanilla but I could definitely see the Deco being played, because it comes in a close second. The Vanilla just covers weaknesses slightly better IMO.
     
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  16. Saber

    Saber Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    @MotorGamer

    Firstoff
    what I an pointing out in this example is that these are 2 unique weapons that have different advantages and fit into 2 unique comps, saying one can replace the other doesn't work.

    Secondly
    saying in a match said weapon is in a disadvantage against x weapon is fair
    (smash boards does the same thing with it's roster)
    and you bring out quite accurately why the squlcher is in a substantial disadvantage to the rapid balster pro
     
  17. The Salamander King

    The Salamander King Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    Kinda aggressive lmao
     
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  18. MotorGamer

    MotorGamer Inkling Cadet

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    Yes they have two different play styles, but you make it sound like the Jet is so good when it isn’t really, I would just like to point that out ok? I don’t mean to be aggressive...it’s just that I mailed it in Splatoon 1 (got a 17 game win streak once with it)
     
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  19. ThatOneGuy

    ThatOneGuy Inkling Commander

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    I'd like to add a couple more

    Luna Blaster < Vanilla Blaster

    Vanilla Blaster has more range, and less endlag than the Luna Blaster. Which steals it's role on a team 9/10 unless you really like splat bomb baller for some reason.

    Sploosh-o-matic < Dapple Dualies (both variants really)

    Take the sploosh and give it dodge rolls, and insane dps after rolling, and with that you have the dapple dualies. There's not even a point in using a sploosh kit when the dapples exist. Want a beacon weapon? Vanilla Dapples > Sploosh Neo. Curling Bomb / Splashdown < Toxic Mist / Inkstorm any day of the week tbh. As the sploosh's curling bomb splashdown kit makes it play way too linear and predictable. Dapple Dualies both have amazing support kits / great combat abilities.

    But I'd like to discuss a couple.
    I don't know how you're comparing this. Yes I get that they have the same kit, but they're extremely different in how they play.

    One is a baller spamming machine that charges it extremely fast at 170p and fast painting patterns to boot. The other is a more versatile slayer weapon that has a baller, but it takes a while to charge at 220p.

    Like many other people, I'm confused at this listing too.

    I get that they're both defense oriented weapons catering to players who like to backline, but they're pretty different. Jet Squelcher is mostly a backline that can paint if needed. Rapid Pro can't paint for itself if it wanted too. I get that a rapid pro will get used over a jet most of the time, but that's probably not because a jet is simply inferior to a rapid pro.

    I'd agree if it was more like what you did with the heavy and jet squelcher. Where CJS = Vanilla Heavy.

    Overall, it's a pretty good list. I agree with clash < machine and Forge < Foil Squeezer the most
     
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  20. hoo

    hoo Inkling

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    I think splattershot jr < splattershot is a better comparison. Since splattershot is a direct upgrade in range, and they are both similar weapons. splattershot < N zap I just don't see it.
     
    #20 hoo, Jun 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018

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