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What if the walls counted for points?

Ikieri

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I'm pretty sure mostly everyone knows this by now, but apparently shooting does not count for points. To be honest, in a game about painting everything thing in sight don't you guys find this strange? Sure, painting up walls gives you a tactical advantage but quite frankly I don't think that's enough.
In the latest Iwata Asks the developers explain why it came to be this way and while it does make sense I feel that Splatoon could have become an even more diverse game that it is now. What do you guys think?
 

Fightersword

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Game's about territory control. A wall doesn't really count as territory, at least in my book. Plus it would just be sort of tedious and no one would bother painting random walls just for points, if for no other reason than the tedium and time spent wouldn't be worth the relatively small % gain in Turf war. Not to mention ink on walls doesn't even do anything for you unless you're swimming in it. Ink on the ground forms a 'soft-wall' that opponent's have to shoot to get through, can be used to cut off opponent's, allows you to move from point to point faster, etc. Paint on walls lets you climb up certain things, and occasionally you can hide in it. It doesn't really function as territory, as it does nothing at all to your opponent or for you (minus letting you hide in it). So you don't get any points for it, which is good because you shouldn't be painting random walls for no reason because it gives you 0 benefit. If it did give you points and percent, then the benefit would go from being 0 to extremely small. with the opportunity cost you'd usually pay to paint said wall, it becomes a negative in both situations.
 

Marraphy

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I feel like keeping it just to the ground is fairer since you can't see walls on your gamepad map. If walls counted, I'd wanna know which walls don't have my ink color yet... it'd be kind of dumb if the opponents inked a bunch of walls that I just ignored because I didn't know they existed / didn't have a map to remind me about them. I like the overhead gamepad map though, and I don't think there's any way they could ever make a map that include walls on it, it'd be hard to read
 

bluekentuckyboy

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I think having only the ground count for points makes the game more combat focused. Instead of inking EVERYTHING, you now have to find precious grounds to cover to earn points, which may or may not be where the enemy is.
 

joetext

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Could have been interesting, certainly. I can see arguments for both sides, but I think it's probably best the way it is.

They found a way to make painting the floor really fun and interesting with the roller, making it a more support-type weapon among more standard weapons. With walls, it's a more awkward area when nobody is really well suited for it. I feel like they could have designed the game differently to make walls work better as territory , but it would be a different game from what they made in a number of ways.

I'm happy the way it is, but it's cool to think about what could have been as well.
 

Trieste Sp

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If the maps were smaller and there is a weapon for it, I can see it happening.

However, I prefer it to be floor only.
 

Ikieri

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Look, I'm not saying that we should have a game where we only paint walls but a game that incorporates the whole map.
Say for instance the single player. Everyone is saying how it feels like Super Mario Galaxy, so why not try and pretend that all platforms have their own gravity?
 

Crucifigo

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I can see why it'd be interesting having walls count for points, but it doesn't work visually with the gamepad map. It's such an important factor it would have to be overhauled to make wall ink visible so the birds-eye view of the map is still accurate.
 

Ikieri

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I can see why it'd be interesting having walls count for points, but it doesn't work visually with the gamepad map. It's such an important factor it would have to be overhauled to make wall ink visible so the birds-eye view of the map is still accurate.
Then wouldn't it be a nice idea to add some kind of 3D map, so you see the battle field from all sides?
Granted I guess that would take away the stealth aspect, but hear me out.
Imagine if each player got to see the map from all four corners viewing down from a diagonal view. That way everyone could see both their own individual walls AND the floor.
 

Marraphy

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Then wouldn't it be a nice idea to add some kind of 3D map, so you see the battle field from all sides?
Granted I guess that would take away the stealth aspect, but hear me out.
Imagine if each player got to see the map from all four corners viewing down from a diagonal view. That way everyone could see both their own individual walls AND the floor.
I was kind of touching on that a little bit in my post; i don't think it would work. if they incorporated walls into the map at all then ground areas on the map would end up being obscured in one way or another. I can try to show you what I mean later if that's not clear
 

Ikieri

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I was kind of touching on that a little bit in my post; i don't think it would work. if they incorporated walls into the map at all then ground areas on the map would end up being obscured in one way or another. I can try to show you what I mean later if that's not clear
Please show me what you mean. I kinda meant that the gamepad would be used for like a rotating 3d model so you could choose any angle to view from.
 

WiseSquid

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I think if walls counted for points it would slow the game right down, simply making it less fun. If the floors are the only thing that counts it urges you to move forward and squid more.
 

Crucifigo

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Then wouldn't it be a nice idea to add some kind of 3D map, so you see the battle field from all sides?
Granted I guess that would take away the stealth aspect, but hear me out.
Imagine if each player got to see the map from all four corners viewing down from a diagonal view. That way everyone could see both their own individual walls AND the floor.
A 3D map is cool in theory, but we'd need to see someone actually draw up something first. I think it'd be neat to see what the game map would look like.
 

Ikieri

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I think if walls counted for points it would slow the game right down, simply making it less fun. If the floors are the only thing that counts it urges you to move forward and squid more.
You sure about that? What if there were only certain walls that you could paint? Like some kind of statue or obstacle?
 

Marraphy

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Please show me what you mean. I kinda meant that the gamepad would be used for like a rotating 3d model so you could choose any angle to view from.
ok heres a crude diagram to show why i think a 2d map that includes walls wouldn't work:


The top drawing is our hypothetical turf war zone, in a box with one platform for simplicity. The bottom left image is how the map would look in the current game - a bird's eye view of the area with only the ink that's on the ground. The drawing on the bottom right is one way that walls could be incorporated into the map. As you can see, that would cover up information about the ink that's on the ground - it looks like there's less. Another problem is wall heights; proportionally taller walls would hence take up more room in this kind of diagram.. I don't think it's ideal.

What you suggested in another post is something like the top drawing; a 3D model of the arena, only you can turn it in order to get different views. While this option could work, I'd personally find it a taaaaad tedious tbh. I think the devs made a good choice in not counting walls, but I can see the desire to have more mechanics in play
 

ndayadn

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Only way I can imagine a map counting walls is something similar to the Metroid Prime series where you can spin that thing around everywhere.
But yes. I like the decision of just floors while keeping the need/fun of shooting up walls
 

Inky

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Please show me what you mean. I kinda meant that the gamepad would be used for like a rotating 3d model so you could choose any angle to view from.
This sounds like it's starting to overcomplicate what is supposed to be a simple premise. I don't mind glancing at the remote for an overview of the map but to have to keep rotating it to keep track of the paint coverage would greatly start to reduce the simplicity of the game for me.
 

Threevenge

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This sounds like it's starting to overcomplicate what is supposed to be a simple premise. I don't mind glancing at the remote for an overview of the map but to have to keep rotating it to keep track of the paint coverage would greatly start to reduce the simplicity of the game for me.
Agreed. We're forgetting that this is meant to be accessible to people new to the FPS genre as well, specifically kids. A 3D rotational map isn't exactly easy to comprehend for children. It's also a rather slow way to get information in a game where comebacks can happen in a handful of seconds.
 

Dirty Duck

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I originally thought the walls counted but I prefer it this way, it makes sense when I think about it because every wall you could paint leads to some more horizontal ground to cover and gives you a vantage point against the enemy. If all maps are designed in this way then I have no problem with no wall points, it's good design and going up a wall to higher ground and killing an enemy or covering far off ground from there is rewarding enough. Don't need to overcomplicate the simple top down paint division to decide who wins.
 

LinkJr

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A floor+wall map would not be ideal for the "quick glance" that the current only floor map gives, it would either be misleading due to perspective (looks like a small area but actually is bigger) or would have to be manipulated, which is certainly not good.

The second reason is probably the weapons, most are not great at painting walls, and adding the walls would probably limit the weapon variants we have now. So in this case less is more.
 

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