What is wrong with Switch Paid Online, and why I've accepted quitting in September.

[Green Waffles]

Alrite, So lets list out a few things. Since me making an offhand remark about not liking switch paid online, no matter how short and insignificant it may be, always elicits some form of backlash, I'll list out what I've learned and heard about switch online, why this knowledge has lead me to believe switch paid online is wrong, as well as positives+retorts to the negative points.
By the end of this post, I aim to help you at least understand why I have been so against Switch Paid Online.

Lets start of with what the core of Switch paid online is aimed to be. . .
"This paid service lets Nintendo Switch owners enjoy online multiplayer gaming as well as a dedicated smartphone app that connects to your Nintendo Switch system and helps you connect with friends for online play sessions in compatible games."
-so the primary functions are
~~~online multiplayer
~~~smartphone app

Ok then, the online multipayer. Why are we paying a subscription fee for a service we've been getting for free for. . .
almost 12 years? Before the Wii launched, Gamecabe was not focused on online, to my knowledge.
I only had one game that had online capability, Phantasy Star Online, which required special hardware add-on to connect it to your router via ethernet. The wii was the first to allow wifi connection for multiple games, to my knowledge.

"Because the WiiU sold so badly (or Nintendo is in a financial hard spot)"
I'm no accountant, but it seems switch sales and switch game sales are well coveriing that, along with the WiiU's saving grace that is Splatoon 1. Here are some charts from nintendo regarding sales!
https://kotaku.com/comparing-nintendo-switch-sales-to-the-wiis-and-the-wii-1822621521
(yeeah I know it's Kotaku, but they state these chaarts are straight fro nintendo, so shuush!)
And as to the overall financial state of nintendo? Have you kept up on Nintendo's annual financial reports?
I sure as heck have not. I can only go by the bite-sized data bits like system sales, game sales and the like. So if you have not been keen reading in on Nintendo's state of affairs, such as yearly financial reports, or are an accountant for Nintendo, we have zero credibility when it comes to addressing this, and shame on us for even daring to speak about it. From our un-learned perspective of things Nintendo-finance: sales are up, they're doing fine.

"Because they are going to improve online connection. Nintendo is getting servers for online gaming to be the most stable it has ever been!"
Wouldn't that be nice? I'm all for paying such a small price tag if it means nigh seamless, global match connection.
Sadly, this does not seem very likely, for two main reasons.
~~~One: Changing how a game handles online multiplayer is not simple. I'm no programmer, but my understanding, via some explinations from a couple individuals on The Inkademy, is that game code dealing with online multiplayer; client side prediction, server communicating, etc. is littered throught a game's code, rather than everything dealing with online being tucked away neatly into one place to be easily located and changed whenever the programmers want to. So you have to make corrections to all those scatterd bits of code, make sure you found everything, and then make sure everything hasn;t devolved into a buggy mess as a result of your changes. Not an quick and easy process, by any means. It's not impossible for nintendo/splatoon programmers to do, especially given the fact that nintendo has delayed launching paid online twice now, iirc. But it seems unlikely for the devs to change core coding this late into the game's life.
~~~Two: if they were doing such a drastic change, why not tell us? This has been a huge talking point since Splatoon 1, people have been complaing and/or lamenting about communication errors since may 2015. That's worth at least a line on Nintendo's paid online page mentioning "improved", "better", re-invented", hell even "good" match conection. Nintendo refuses to say anything about better connection, and that concerns me. If they don't deliver, they never promised it to begin with, and we would look the fool for ever believeing they would.
****There is still a chance, e3 is coming, but I'll personally count on me winning the lottery before anything like this happens.

"They're charging subscription to pay online upkeep costs"
Sounds reasonable, but then I remember that nintendo's servers only pair up 8 players(or 4 in the case o Salmon run) after which, the game runs off of peer 2 peer, ie: your internet talking with the other 7 players' internets.
AND Nintendo has been managing these lobby-maker server costs for 12 years now without charging. How did they do this? Was it through excess profit of product sales? Have they managed to keep profits rising because of now paid DLC and amiibo? Did the wizard, who was zapping them more money from thin air to pay for servers, quit last year?
Again, I'm no accountant for Nintendo, but from an outsider's perspective, things don't line up.


"but charging for online is industry standard, so it's Nintedo just getting with the times."
This is horrible logic.
"Microsoft now charges $120 dollars for one game, so it's ok that Sony charges $100, it's cheaper!"
"Other people are throwing unfinished food on the floor of the library, that pickle stain in front of the history bookshelves has been there for years it looks like, so it's fine for me to drop food everywhere."
or "I can rob that convenience store. so many other independent americans have done it."
You are not an idiot for using this kind of logic, but you are acting like one.
Please, stop doing this.







And what about the phone app?
Well, it allows for inviting your switch friends to join a lobby to play with you online, as well as voice chat that, in splatoon 2's case, will divide your chat room along team lines when a match starts, then re-merge them between matches. Cool idea.
But. . . how does this affect solo queue ranked and turf war?


And why, in a world where many apps are free, and those that are not you pay a one time fee to download and use, would you pay a subscription fee to use an app?


And why not just use another free platform for voice chatting with your friends when playing(Discord, Skype, etc.)?


and what about players of Splatoon 2 that don't have a smartphone? why do they have to pay subscription fees for a service the can't use?



Lastly, lets talk about the other benefits really quick
-retro games
Emulators exist, you can go and buy yourself a retro game system, or heck, you can buy one fo the new NES or SNES classic systems.
And how often do you find yourself playing retro games? This varies betwee person, obviously, but for me personally, I will hardly have the time. And that time I do have, I would rather play splatoon.
To those of us not interested in retro games, this bonus is like the fruit they hand out wiith your high school cafeteria lunch, few eat them.

-game discounts
OH BOY discounts on. . . more Nintendo products
netting them more profit from selling more Nintendo games
"But I'd buy those games anyways, so it's great for me!"
Yes but it's utterly useless for people only interested in a select few games.


AND FINALLY
"but it's so cheap"
This is perhaps the most used (and strongest) argument I've heard back.
The most I can do is hark back to my point about paid online being "industry standard" (everybodies' doin it, doin it dooooin it! Pickin' there nose and then chewin' it, cheeewin' it!)
and a friendly tweet response from when Nintendo announced the september launch. . .

"Because we pay for the system, we pay for the game, we pay for the internet. Then to get the full game experience, that we’ve had forever until now and have some extra **** we can’t even choose, we have to pay. It’s not about affording. It’s the principle, and we don’t like it." Thanks Marc <3

So, in summation, (and kinda re-iterating that quote)
for a person like me, who mainly wants to play Splatoon 2, paid online is not worth it.
From my perspective, I'm paying for a bunch of things that have been free for many years, and things I'm not interesting in buying in the first place. It's not worth it, and Nintendo is showing no signs of stopping.
I only have one way to really show them I don't like it, and that's by not paying and explaining why.
It's unfortunate to have to abandon a game one likes so much, but at the same time, I was alive and happy before Splatoon, so I'll be just fine without it, if worse comes to worse. I'll just do something else with my time, and I hope a few of the friends I've made on Splatoon will stick =p
I'm also afraid this is just a sign of nintendo taking a more profiteering approach to running the company, after Iwata's passing.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity,
but don't rule out malice."

If you managed to slogg all the way through reading to this point in the post, thank you(especially when I've been so dang crass with the down talking and straw-manning).
Up until a few months ago, when Nintendo not saying anything about the paid service started to have me worried, I'd gotten along very well with everyone I encountered on Squidboards. I'd had one or two disagreements, but things went over pretty cleanly and maturely. Only since this dividing point came up have I had anything resembling heart-ache when on the site. I'm pretty confident in saying the Splatoon fan-base is quite easily one of the better ones, if not one of the best.
SO since my experience has been, until recently, a very positive one. I felt this recent conflict warranted an explanation (as well as a venting, of sorts).
To anyone who I might have offended, I don't hate you. I'm just tired of getting the same ham-handed responses when I make a slight jip at paid online. I'm sorry if you feel offended, and I promise not to throw matches in solo queue if Nintendo puts us on the same team =)

Anyways
If you want to discuss anything more about paid online in this thread, it's not my main intention for the thread, but feel free to, if you want.

Peace.

 

[the]

With all due respect I think many people myself included agree with you that, with what we know about the paid online stuff, it’s pretty stupid and unnecessary
It’s just that ppl are tired of having the paid online brought up whenever anything good or exciting happens for splatoon. I get that it sucks but ppl don’t need to be reminded all the time, everyone knows it’s gonna happen, for better or (more likely) for worse. And I hope that now you’ve aired your grievances here, u can let the topic rest until new information or discussion arises about it.
And I don’t mean to come off as rude, I don’t personally know u but it seems like you’re a consistent and valued member of the forum, and I’ll be sad to see u go if you choose to do so
So yeah, I understand where you’re coming from and honestly I’m on the fence about whether I’ll pay for online stuff myself. I just think all that needs to be said has been said already.

(Also did u come up with that malice/stupidity thing, or is that some famous quote? That’s a good one)

 

[Green Waffles]

Not rude in the slightest =P
I get it

I suppose for me personally, I keep mentioning paid online because I've resigned myself to quitting as my only legitimate means of voicing my dissent. The fact I'll be quitting lingers in my mind all the time, and surfaces whenever I get excited about something new and cool coming out: "this is awesome! I best make the most of this before September!" is an inevitable thought when I see new splatoon 2 news. =/
And I intend to let things rest until we get more news, likely coming in e3. I'm just especially tired of getting the same hammed responses when I even mention paid online offhand.
I always think to myself "If you're ok with paying for it, why do you get defensive whenever I even point in that direction?"
and then think "They're probably a bit upset too, so why aren't they saying something more about it? Nintendo has ears here, quite a few ideas I've seen posted here back when splatoon 2 speculation was a thing made it into the new game(I explicitly remember someone describing nigh EXACTLY the splashdown special well before any form of splat2 news surfaced). Nintendo might not do anything about it, but they will hear us"
and this gets me even more down.

And I might not dissappear completely, in the event everything I forsee about paid online comes to pass.
I'll just do splatoon1 maybe, or watch splat2 tournaments 'n' such, or only play in LANS if my new found team is still around by then.

And it's up to you. Really, the strongest counter argument to mine is that it's so cheap (thought that's how a salesman/buisnessman slips profits in, it's classic nickel-and-diming, it works) so it won't hurt most people's wallets.
But I think anyone who can read between the lines would see I want as many people as possible to say (and followup on, if nessesary) that they won't pay the subscription fee. My voice alone means jack **** to nintendo, as a company. We'd need a huge collection of voices to get them to listen.

And no, I didn't come up with that. It's a somewhat famous quote know as "Hanlon's razor" =p
if only I were so witty.

 

[SkyWolf]

I guess I’ll just pay it, I want to keep playing online (especially because it is the main focus on Splatoon, and some other games like Mario Kart or ARMS aren’t that fun without them), I also have a lot of connection issues in this game, so I hope Nintendo makes better servers (I don’t mean that paying the online with entirely fix it, but I at least want to play without getting disconnected when I only have 5 points left to win a ranked... Yeah, that happened today). I understand that you don’t like it, I think neither of us do, but it is cheap and I guess it is worth it.
Edit: I checked the prices again and it isn’t as cheap as I thought, but I still think the same, I think it could be worth it.

 

[Marfie]

Ok then, the online multipayer. Why are we paying a subscription fee for a service we've been getting for free for. . .almost 12 years?

Video games have evolved a lot over 12 years; like how nobody has to go out and purchase expansion discs or deal with gluts of shovelware being released almost every week (for the most part).
Namely, the cost of developing games is changing while the price games are being sold at is staying the same; especially with many of them now having additional costs such as online content/etc.
It's why Video games are now starting to be treated as a service; development (or profit) no longer ends at launch. By extending the life time of a game with DLC or multiplayer content players can stay more engaged which reaps multiple benefits for the publisher and players.

We don't know if Nintendo's paid online is due to the financial costs of upkeep, playing follow the leader or whatever; but just like how they're no longer just releasing a game and being done with it (paid DLC for BoTW,Xenoblade 2, and now Splatoon 2), they're also not going to continue shouldering the cost of online simply because they've been doing it for years.
And in all brutal honesty, why would Nintendo keep online free if they know people are willing to pay for it (outside of angry gamers sending inappropriate messages to whoever is unlucky enough to have to manage their social media accounts)?

Nintendo's state of affairs, such as yearly financial reports, or are an accountant for Nintendo, we have zero credibility when it comes to addressing this, and shame on us for even daring to speak about it. From our un-learned perspective of things Nintendo-finance: sales are up, they're doing fine.

Nintendo is also collaborating with constructing a theme park, renovated the New York store a few years(?) ago, they have to pay for their yearly video game demo events,advertise games (which can sometimes cost way more than developing the game itself),they're also making a movie with illumination pictures, etc. etc. Nintendo's Switch profits are clearly going towards other things, especially since the costs of online are going to be shouldered by subscriptions now.

Yes they're doing fine now, after almost getting their financial caps smashed in by the WiiU's failure, I don't think they're going to continue (as if they ever were) being so lenient about free anything.

I don't think anyone is exactly going "WOW I love that come September I'll have to PAY to play online thanks Nintendo!!!" it seems more like apathy; it's not a super big deal especially since a huge hit like Smash is coming that'll obviously utilize online in some way.

"At least it's cheaper!" isn't really a good argument but it's a strong psychological pricing strategy; as others have said $20 (compared to $60) is a drop in the bucket to how much everything else for the Switch costs. With a game like Smash on the horizon (and I guess more DLC for Splatoon) Nintendo is making that $20 seem waayyyy more like an appealing add on to a game you were planning to buy anyways than a subscription service. The fact that it's cheaper is half of the super appealing thing about paid online; consumers are wwaayyyy more willing to drop $20 than $60 (and don't be surprised if Nintendo starts making special online subscription content like they do with amiibo).
This isn't to say that this attitude is right per say, it's just that there's more psychological factors regarding general consumer behavior at play here than you might think.

I encountered on Squidboards. I'd had one or two disagreements, but things went over pretty cleanly and maturely. Only since this dividing point came up have I had anything resembling heart-ache when on the site. I'm pretty confident in saying the Splatoon fan-base is quite easily one of the better ones, if not one of the best.
SO since my experience has been, until recently, a very positive one. I felt this recent conflict warranted an explanation (as well as a venting, of sorts).
To anyone who I might have offended, I don't hate you. I'm just tired of getting the same ham-handed responses when I make a slight jip at paid online. I'm sorry if you feel offended, and I promise not to throw matches in solo queue if Nintendo puts us on the same team =)

Being critical about the paid online service isn't offensive; what you're doing is continuously bringing it up,namely in conversations where it's not relevant and in some cases asking people to not respond/ignore you if they don't like your responses.

Like....I don't know if the paid online is some sort of stressor for you (as you keep bringing it up) but you gotta stop beating this dead seahorse man. People have already said their peace about the subject and there's nothing more anyone can argue about it until we get more information unless someone wants to go gamergate levels of stupid and get the government involved lmao.

 

[Dessgeega]

So are we supposed to ignore this thread as you keep saying to do? My only problem with you is how you never, ever let this go and always present this subject in the most negative, unpleasant manner possible, which Marfie also commented on. It's genuinely toxic the way you bring it up any new developments occur, something that The pointed out. If you were actually constructive in your criticisms no one would be disagreeing with you (or "getting defensive" as you so politely put it) to the degree you're getting. I know I'd have zero issues with you. Comments like "Just let me be upset, please" and this gem, well:
"Don't respond,
unless you're insecure and want to prove how good you are by pointing out the obvious fact that I'm over-reacting about an ultimately pointless video game.
I don't care if you agree/disagree

Just reminding you =/"
These aren't conducive to anything positive on these forums. Neither is calling people defensive or ham-handed - to throw out some descriptors to match, you come off as entitled and close-minded. Whether you quit or not, please, just STOP. Save it for when there's some actual news.

 

[Green Waffles]

Alrite, so I'm being too pessimistic.
I see that.

Maybe I'm being so negative because no one seems to do anything about it?
Maybe I'm upset that me saying "I'll quit" doesnt elicit any action from my friends?
Like they don't care whether or not we keep playing together?
Maybe I'm negative because people don't like the subscription fee, but then neither do nor say anything to try and change it?

It seems like everyone is just being so apathetic.
At least I'm trying something!
If I'm doing things wrong, what do we need to do things right? What do I need to do to do things right?

 

[Mar$el]

Alrite, so I'm being too pessimistic.
I see that.

Maybe I'm being so negative because no one seems to do anything about it?
Maybe I'm upset that me saying "I'll quit" doesnt elicit any action from my friends?
Like they don't care whether or not we keep playing together?
Maybe I'm negative because people don't like the subscription fee, but then neither do nor say anything to try and change it?

It seems like everyone is just being so apathetic.
At least I'm trying something!
If I'm doing things wrong, what do we need to do things right? What do I need to do to do things right?

I see nothing wrong with wanting to fight against it, but I think most people have come to the conclusion of nothing is gonna happen and just gave in. The main argument is that people love splatoon and 20 bucks for a year sounds like nothing for the inevitable. As for me, I'm gonna keep playing. People just payed 20 bucks for more hero mode content even though it doesn't affect online play really at all other than cosmetics. People donate 20 bucks monthly to their favorite content creators on patreon, and for comissions, and merch. Some people may not be totally happy but they love the game enough and would feel left out on a lot of good times, content and entertainment if they didn't. The hidden sales pitch here is "pay 20 bucks for a year of feeling included and having fun."

 

[Padre]

Lets wait for the product, test it, and have a second look. Speculation is... well, nothing.

 

[MINKUKEL]

By the end of this post, I aim to help you at least understand why I have been so against Switch Paid Online.

Well, all you've done is restate the same things we already all know. I know why it sucks to pay for online.

You can call it a 'principle', but that changes nothing. It's still the exact same pros/cons for either paying for it or not.

I used to hate buying digital games. I like having stuff physical, because it makes me more sure I 'own' the product. But there's lots of great games that only come out digitally, so I sucked it up.
I don't think 3D add anything to movies, and I don't like paying extra for it just because my local theatre decides to only show a specific movie in 3D. But, if I really want to see a movie, I'm going to let those few bucks slide, because what's the point? All that would happen is me missing out on a movie I want to see.

I would've missed out of great games like Kero Blaster and great movies like Blade Runner 2049 if I had stuck to my 'principles' blindly. The world doesn't always work how you want it, and Nintendo is, and had always been a company trying to make a profit.

Ultimately, you can write a dozen paragraphs about the pros and cons of paid online, but at the end of the day, whether or not you pay has an effect on exactly two things:
-Those 20 bucks that will either stay in your wallet or will go to Nintendo
-Your ability to play Splatoon 2

I'm convinced that the vast, vast majority of people won't miss 20 bucks extra over the course of an entire year, so it's essentially choosing between having a couple extra cents to spend each day and continuing playing one of your favorite games of all time. It's nothing more, nothing less.

And really, you're writing a dozen paragraphs and talking about principles over 20 bucks. It's a discussion about 20 bucks. Not ****ing abortion or something.

 

[Mr.HawK]

With all due respect to the topic at hand, there doesnt seem to be and good coming out of a thread like this. Im not at all against conversations discussing these things, but this clearly isnt going in a positive or productive direction so im locking the thread.