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Why Competitive Splatoon should use all Game Modes instead of one

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by AnchorTea, Jul 5, 2015.

  1. AnchorTea

    AnchorTea Semi-Pro Squid

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    Before you read, I want you to read this quote from @Egregore .

    Competitive Splatoon has been set off, it has been getting somewhat of a strong start with discovered data on weapons, clothing, etc. Almost everything is set up well. All there is left to do is to wait till August to get private rooms and to decide what should be the primary game mode for tourneys.


    The current suggested one is Splat Zones, as it is considered more competitive and the game says it's more competitive than Turf War. I will prove later in the OP that what the game says is wrong. Turf War is considered casual and is "non-competitive". I will prove why this is wrong. Tower Control is considered boring. This is an opinion, a lot say it's fun and even more exciting than the other modes. I will prove why both of those opinions are fine.

    Now here are my reasons why Competitive Splatoon should use all Game Modes:

    Anything that is VS. can be Competitive

    Competitiveness isn't something that is there already. Even if it's built to be "Competitive", it's never there in the first place. The reason I am mentioning this is because Splat Zones are said to be the main mode because it is "competitive" or "more competitive". While most of those who say that, believe that Turf War or any other mode isn't competitive at all. That isn't true though. Anything that involves any form of Versus can be competitive. Turf War is 4 players vs. 4 players, so it counts as viable for competitiveness. Same things goes for Tower Control and Rainmaker. Conclusion: Every Game Mode can be competitive. Not just one just because it's considered competitive or "more competitive".

    Each Game Mode is different enough to have their own Meta


    Think about this, each Game Mode has different rules, different ways of winning, and different layouts of each map (sort of). The only things they have is common is: 1. You can cover turf 2. You can Super Jump. 3. All the weapons work the same 4. They have the same amount of players. 5. Splattering the Bad Guys matters. 6. Team work is important. Five of those aren't really game changing at all. The rules of each mode is very different from each other to become their own thing. TW is simple and straightforward and requires the Team to be as quick and efficient as possible at covering turf. SZ requires the Team to keep a zone covered as long as possible. TC requires the Team to have incredible teamwork on making sure the Tower is advancing to their base, , this is one of the two modes that has the Main objective moving. Rain requires large amounts of teamwork, and the objective depends on the holder's decisions. Conclusion: All Game Modes can be different to the point where all of them can have a different Meta.

    It will attract more players to be a part of Competitive Splatoon

    Let's say that Rainmaker was the only Mode used at tourneys and this situation happened:

    Person: "I really want to join this tourney! Because I have been practicing Tower Control!"

    TO: "No-can-do. Tower Control is illegal at all tourneys."

    Person: "Why?"

    TO: "Because Tower Control and all other Game Modes besides Rainmaker are considered casual and non-competitive."

    Person: "What if I don't want to do Rainmaker?"

    TO: "Oh well."


    I know that this is a really specific type of situation, but you get the idea. Every single human being ever has their own opinions. Every single gamer has their own opinions. Every single Splatoon player has their own opinions. Some would prefer certain Game Modes over others. I don't really have much to say since this is very straight forward.

    That's all I have to say. I hope those who believe that only one Game Mode for Competitive Splatoon is fine will realize that is a terrible idea. I hope you all have a nice day shooting/flinging ink.

    Something from @D3RK about the TW debate full of insanity.

     
    #1 AnchorTea, Jul 5, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2015
  2. GeneraLight

    GeneraLight Inkling Commander

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    Amazing post, AnchorTea. You've nailed what most people fail to understand perfectly. Anything can be competitive if people play to outdo others. It doesn't even have to be a multiplayer game like Splatoon. It can be single player games with speedruns and high scores.

    Every mode is equally skill-based with different objectives. Shunning entire modes because of ignorant preconceptions will only stunt the growth and success of the community.
     
  3. Power

    Power Inkling Commander

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    It is an interesting perspective, (agree with several points). I haven't had much experience with competitive communities, but ima try to challenge this, for discussions sake.

    -If there is a competition, people (at least the hardcore people) want to be sure that the higher skilled team or player would usually win.

    Turf Wars:
    I am guessing the reason that most people do not find it competitive is that usually the results are determined in the last minute or 30 seconds of the competition. ---My team could be absolutely dominating the entire match, but we all die at the last thirty or 20 seconds and the opposition has a chance to scratch out a win.

    It could be said that it takes skill to not allow this to happen, such as setting yourself up in position to not all die, saving specials or avoiding making silly mistakes that cost a game. Most people aren't comfortable with that type of flip the switch comeback and would deem it as luck, reducing the "competitive" side of it for them. (I am not much a fan of it either) The skill gap in this mode would not be as wide in other modes and eventually it may reach a peak where everyone would be at the same skill in terms of tactics. As of now, there does not seem to be much room for evolving of strategies in turf wars, which is why many reduce it to a casual mode.

    The "competitiveness" of tower control and splatzones are a toss up and I feel are interchangeable, as both require constant coordination to pull out a victory. Last minute victories after a round of domination are much less likely to happen here. There appears to be more to these two modes than turf wars,(positioning, routes, etc) which once again widens the skill gap and reduces the chances of reaching a peak in strategy development.

    I have not even looked at rainmaker so I won't say anything there.

    Conclusion: (tl;dr for some)
    The limited potential for development of strategy in turf wars (From what we know now) hurts its competitive viability. People want evolving strategies just to get a slight edge over their opponent and to keep things interesting. Turf wars seems to be a "whoever kills the other team in the last 30 seconds most likely wins" despite anything that happened prior in the match. Not much room for development off of that. The other modes differ from turf wars in this sense and are deemed more competitive because of it.
     
    2xDair, Oatsy, itisRag and 1 other person like this.
  4. SlimyQuagsire

    SlimyQuagsire Pro Squid

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    I've been saying for long that tournies should implement every (competitively viable) mode. This will allow for a better gauge of skill, ability to adapt, and show teams' overall ability and skill at the game, as opposed to just being able to win one mode. It will promote much more skill growth, better tournament showings/attendance and overall strengthen the community as opposed to splitting it.

    @AnchorTea, not sure if you have, but if not, consider talking about this in the ruleset thread? This has been discussed there as well.
     
    GeneraLight likes this.
  5. ShadowB

    ShadowB Free Agent

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    To be honest, that is an ignorant statement. To say they are all 'equally skill-based'. Do you have anything to back up this statement?

    My own opinion is that it would be nice to see all forms played competitively as it may make the game more interesting.
     
  6. SlimyQuagsire

    SlimyQuagsire Pro Squid

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    It is up to community and its leaders to determine the competitive viability of each game mode and map (and combination of such) in order to create a fair, competitive environment that promotes team and meta growth. We can't dismiss a mode from the beginning, but we can't also say every mode will be equally skill based and suitable for a competitive scene without looking into it.
     
    BlurB and Flying_Tortoise like this.
  7. Kaliafornia

    Kaliafornia Splatin' through Inkopolis with my woes....

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    I agree that all modes are competitive as the fundamental aspect of this game is competition. However, Nintendo is choosing to define "competition" as killing v. survival skills.

    Turf War, depending on the map you could never/rarely see the opposition and avoid them while still covering ground and still get top score. In my highest score in turf war my K/D was 1/0 and I got 1847 points we won but it was made a lot easier for me by my teammates taking out the other team. I wasn't intentionally avoiding opposition but its just how it turned out. Turf rewards both good players and bad players. Making Turf ranked you would have to take out that aspect of it. Really SZ is basically TW just on a smaller scale which encourages confrontation. It's that confrontation aspect that the "skill" or "competitiveness" is based on.

    That said, K/D ratio isnt always indicative of a good bad player (holding a choke point and preventing enemies from passing is also crucial and if you drive them away then that's important too) but if your K/D ratio is 2/5 and you won chances are your team carried you. If your 2/5 and you lost chances are your team lost because you could not win your confrontations.

    TL;DR? Competition to Nintendo is K/D ratio and Turf War with its expansive maps do not always courage confrontations.
     
  8. flc

    flc Inkling Commander

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    the point isn't that some modes are not competitive, it's that not all modes are as competitive as they ought to be.

    fact is, turf is decided in the last 20-30 seconds and there's nothing that organised competition will change about that; the imperious lounge has already run "competitive" turf rooms where everyone generally tries to play well, and no matter what the teams are, triple or quad kills at the end of a match seal it. I've sandbagged these rooms to build up high scores (constantly inking the same turf), then pushed out with inkzooka for a triple at 0:25 and won after being spawn locked for two and a half minutes.

    now, the other team could do the same thing, but if a three-minute gametype is decided by who shoots their first inkzooka shot the best at 0:25 on the clock every single map, that is just not a gametype that fits in competitive play.

    turf will never be suitable for competition, even if technically it allows for competitive play. the first 2:30 is essentially a formality, and the last 20 seconds determine the entire match, with only a tenuous connection to how the rest of the game was going. the better team can easily lose because of one lucky inkzooka shot, splat bomb, etc.
     
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  9. ShadowB

    ShadowB Free Agent

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    yes I agree that it needs to be decided by all, I only wrote my opinion to show the person I quoted that I am not totally against the OP. But it would be unrealistic to think all forms will be equally competitive. Post above me has some examples to prove this and I can relate to the example.
     
  10. Kaliafornia

    Kaliafornia Splatin' through Inkopolis with my woes....

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    I'm going to play devil's advocate for a minute. The same argument could be flipped on Splat Zones as well if the game goes into OT. Especially in higher ranked rooms I often find that a lot of games go into OT and at that point a team could be dominating you the whole game and you could come back just because you were able to fend them off for however many seconds you were behind do to that lucky inkstrike/inkzooka. In TC we stopped them at 2 secs, had 94 secs on our clock and rode the tower all the way back to their camp base in OT. In Splat Zones, if matches are close, it all comes down to who can make the final push at the end of the game clock. I even had a 100/100 game once that we ran the timer out on and in that scenario the team with the most ink on the map won.

    I mean I agree with that assessment that game clock is a bigger factor in TW because the clock always runs its course so the chance for variables is greater but I don't think its the strongest argument for why TW shouldn't be competitive especially since in higher ranked rooms OT is common.
     
    AnchorTea likes this.
  11. Ryuji

    Ryuji Inkling Commander

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    I can't view Turf Wars as competitive much, not when the objective is simply to ink more turf than the other team. Any splats you get during the match will somewhat help to ink more turf, but unless you're keeping the other team stuck at spawn like flc and power said, all the turf you claimed will merely be reclaimed. Besides, the weapons you use in Turf Wars aren't dependent on the map rotation, so you can just use Aerosprays and the Jr. regardless of the current maps and still do decently. Splat Zones however, you need a pretty varied set of weapons and a strategy to keep control of the zones, which is why it's more difficult(and why many are deterred by it besides worrying about losing their rank). Splats also matter much more here than in Turf Wars because the more you splat the other team, the more time you have to take control and get the countdown started, so you'll want to splat them as much as possible. Furthermore, because the zones alternate between one team having the zone and the other team taking control, it's much more tense and chaotic than TW. I don't get a feeling of tension in TW like I do in Ranked battles. There is actually an incentive to win because you get a significant amount of money and if you lose you get nothing, unlike TW. The only thing that makes TW partly(would even go so far as to say fractionally) competitive but not fully is the fact you're on a team against another. That's it. There's much more at stake in Ranked.
     
    #11 Ryuji, Jul 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
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  12. EpicB13

    EpicB13 Inkster Jr.

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    I understand your perspective, and I don't wanna put you down, but your scenario example is like some one saying - "Why is there no Coin Battle at this Smash Bros Tourney? I've been practicing that!" I honestly think there should be one definitive mode for all tournaments.
     
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  13. AnchorTea

    AnchorTea Semi-Pro Squid

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    @flc it's your teams fault they lost, not the Game Mode. An Inkstrike at the last 20 seconds that gets a triple can determine a win at all Game Modes. Heck, all game modes can determine a win at the last seconds if you think about it. It's mostly a psychological thing. The last seconds will make you get more aggressive for that victory. @Ryuji your opinion doesn't determine what something should or shouldn't. @Power it's typically considered that TW has less strategies, but is there a way to prove this? We still don't have Private Lobbies yet, and you can make independent Tactics and group Formations. I even created some in one of my threads.

    I don't mean to be rude by what I said and for what i'm about to say to all three of you, but I am detecting some Splat Zone bias. And don't think I have TW bias. I love all the Game Modes. I play them all.

    @EpicB13 going by your logic, TW should be the main mode for Comp Splatoon because Comp Smash uses Smash's "Normal Mode".
     
    #13 AnchorTea, Jul 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
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  14. Citrus

    Citrus Inkling Cadet

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    A last second inkstike does NOT determine a win in any of the ranked modes at all. For example, in TW it does because there isn't anything you can do about it. In any ranked mode, you have a chance. For example, if in TC they last second inkstike the tower and gain control, you have a huge opportunity to take it back and win. It's your fault if you let them take it all the way to the goal. In Turf Wars, the match just ends, there isn't any chance to go and fill the ink in or something. Turf Wars can't be as viable because of how Dependant it is on the last 15 seconds. The in ranked modes, you can't just wait around 4 minutes and get the win last second just like that.
     
  15. AnchorTea

    AnchorTea Semi-Pro Squid

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    ...
    Then why did you say:
    A single inkstrike can't always determine a win in TW btw. It depends on the situation. If the match was 5 seconds before ending and an Inkstrike is launched, depending on if both teams are equal, then it means a win for one team. And you can do something about if a certain team member focuses on getting that one Bad Guy who has the Inkstrike special. Which something like that counts as a tactic AKA strategy in Turf War, and some say Turf War doesn't have tactics.

    And, technically you can stand around for four minutes and win in a ranked match. Let's say SZ. You somehow beat all four of the bad guys protecting the Splat Zone. Now you and your team can defend it, and even defend it in Overtime to earn the victory. Same thing goes for TC. One member can take the Tower then all of the members protect the Tower and got it to their side in Overtime.
     
  16. Citrus

    Citrus Inkling Cadet

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    No matter how much time is left, there is still overtime to take it back.l. And waiting for overtime to win is the worst idea ever, the other team gaining control means victory to them. That is an idiotic idea. No matter how much skill you have, you can't stop a last second inkstike or something in Turf Wars. In ranked modes, overtime gives you a clear opportunity to take victory right back.

    I wouldn't call killing someone that has an inkstike a "tactic", lol
     
    #16 Citrus, Jul 6, 2015
    Lasted edited by : Jul 6, 2015
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  17. AnchorTea

    AnchorTea Semi-Pro Squid

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    Just because it's a bad idea doesn't mean it's not there. It's something that can still happen.

    You obviously can't stop an inkstrike itself, you can prevent one by the tactic I said. You can actually prevent the covered turf from an Inkstrike by throwing Splat Bombs or Sticky Bombs at the landing area. Of course you need good timing though.

    The synonyms for Tactic is plan. That, what you replied to is a plan.
     
    #17 AnchorTea, Jul 6, 2015
    Lasted edited by : Jul 6, 2015
  18. River09

    River09 Inkling Cadet

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    I don't see why we can't try Turf Wars as well as the other modes. Not even trying to even see if it works in a competitive setting is a waste.
     
  19. Citrus

    Citrus Inkling Cadet

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    I completely agree, I'm most certain that all ranked modes will be played competitively, but turft Wars I can't see happening at all, none of the match matters until the end
     
  20. AnchorTea

    AnchorTea Semi-Pro Squid

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    Even if it doesn't involve purposely waiting for four minutes. Victory with Overtime has happened. I can guarantee it has happened to many ranked players. And what you say about Turf War is pretty much a stereotype by now. As it really just depends on which team is better. The last 30 seconds may make both teams more desperate for that Glory of winning, but one bad teammate can bring the whole team down.

    Now you're either just trolling or just being rude.
     

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