Ability Stacking and Diminishing Returns - Damage

[Boltasar]

One last update on this. I went through every weapon to see exactly how many Hits to Splat each takes, and if it can be reduced.

Here is the data table.

The (A/D) determines the difference between your Attack increases and your opponents Defense increases.
This should fluctuate with minor ability slots. However, I stuck with just Major slots.

A few oddities occur here. For one, there seems to be a damage cap in place. Noticeable on the Jet Squelcher (Probably applies to more weapons if you stack minor abilities as well). This leads into the fact that no weapon can kill quicker with damage ups, only less against armored foes.

Think this really drives the point home. Damage increases are of very little value. Maybe helping in situations where you are trying to push the range of your weapon, or with AoEs.

I noticed that with the Jet Squelcher as well, and the splash wall only insta kills if you are underneath it when it starts, otherwise you bounce off before you die.

 

[NineWholeGrains]

This is incredible work. Excellent job with the findings! Guess it's time to drop my Damage Up gear! :P

 

[Lyn]

Thank you for making this, it's very useful! :D

 

[Katastrphik]

I don't know if you want to do this. Or maybe you already have the answer. But could you test if the inkling run speed perk also applies to win your firing your weapon? I always thought that perk is the most useless as everyone uses squid from to get around fast any way rather than just plain running. But if it increases your movement speed while firing your weapon it could be a little more useful.

Just tested this quickly. Ran past 6 lines in the test area, while aiming at the ground. It is hard to run exactly straight, but I think this is enough evidence that you get a buff still while shooting. Gonna be harder to nail down exact numbers for these kind of things.

You still get a speed penalty for firing, it is noticeable even without timing it exactly.

All in all, I'm not sure how useful Run Speed will be, especially with how creative you can be in Squid Form.

I guess I should also note that I am recording at 30fps on an Elgato, and then timing in Movie Maker.

 

[Mayday]

Didn't expect abilities to work quite like this. Very interesting

 

[Blatikin]

All in all, I'm not sure how useful Run Speed will be, especially with how creative you can be in Squid Form.

Yeah true, I think if anything it will only be useful for jr as you have almost no speed penalty with it. Being a close quarters shooter you need to be able to close in on your target as quick as you can (which I'm guessing is why it has no penalty). Remember you can only kill while shooting (obviously) and having more faster movement while shooting means more pressure can be applied. And along with it having high rate of fire means you can probably out ink some one trying to advance on your position (notably on narrow paths). All this while still having the creativity of squid from.

You got to be into that sort of play style I guess to put it into practice and be good at it. And I'm not sure how effective this all would be, it's just all theory in my head.

Also I can see why the rollers, would have less buff's. If they got the same buff as the jr they would be a little crazy. All the weapons seem to have caps like this. Kinda annoying when you dont know about it and waste your power-ups. wish they did the this is how much your weapon gains for putting this on your gear in the stats like so many other games have done. That way you can just see if your wasting your time or not.

 

[Efrenisit]

Oh wow, I didn't know there was a difference between main and subs! That makes it more difficult to find a perfect set of gear!

 

[LancerStaff]

Think I figured out the default damage of the Splash Wall. It does 50 damage... Per frame. It does 100 damage total to a normal dummy, 500 to a giant one, and does 14X.X to the Defense Up one. And when it's hitting a giant dummy you can barely make out the numbers climbing, which have always been a multiple of 50.

 

[Katastrphik]

Think I figured out the default damage of the Splash Wall. It does 50 damage... Per frame. It does 100 damage total to a normal dummy, 500 to a giant one, and does 14X.X to the Defense Up one. And when it's hitting a giant dummy you can barely make out the numbers climbing, which have always been a multiple of 50.

That's probably correct, I got the same results looking on screen, but never scrubbed through frame by frame. Added for now.

 

[Casperr]

Do you know if Defence Up stacks mains AND subs so 3 mains + 12 subs? Or is it capped at 3 mains?

 

[Katastrphik]

Do you know if Defence Up stacks mains AND subs so 3 mains + 12 subs? Or is it capped at 3 mains?

I'm sure it does stack all the way to 3M + 12S, however I've yet to get any gear with the same main and all 3 subs. Closest I have is the Blue Moto Boots, which is Ink Res, and 3 Sub Run Speeds.

Damage Up and Defense Up seem to be linked, so if anybody had a significant amount of Damage Ups, and it still gave tangible increases, I'd say that stacking Defense Up would do the same.

I still question the usability of it however.

 

[Casperr]

I can confirm that Damage Up and Defence Up are definitely linked. From testing on the dummies I can confirm that a user with X main Damage Up versus a user with X main Defence Up does the standard base damage of that weapon. This is true for 1, 2 and 3 mains and I can imagine it is exactly the same for equal amount of sub abilities vs each other.

Now, the guide says that Damage Up gives a boost of max 130% and Defence Up gives a boost of max 120%. Unfortunately, my maths isn't good enough to work out how those numbers relate in order for us to apply a formula to this. It also isn't clear whether that 130 and 120 are if you have 3 mains stacked or whether a max stack includes 3 mains + some subs. Will report back if I find anything

 

[Katastrphik]

Ya I noticed the Defense canceling the Damage Ups too.
I'll try and unlock some Damage Up gear, since the highest % increase I see right now is 122.39% w/ 3 Mains.

The diminishing return on Subs will probably be fairly high once you hit 3 Mains. If 1 Sub Damage Up regularly gives 102.89% vs Base but with 2 Mains drops to 101.89%. I could see it taking all 12 Subs to get from 122.39% to 130%. Similarly with defense, 112.5% seems to be w/ 3 Mains, and 120% is most likely every slot filled.

 

[Casperr]

Ya I noticed the Defense canceling the Damage Ups too.
I'll try and unlock some Damage Up gear, since the highest % increase I see right now is 122.39% w/ 3 Mains.

The diminishing return on Subs will probably be fairly high once you hit 3 Mains. If 1 Sub Damage Up regularly gives 102.89% vs Base but with 2 Mains drops to 101.89%. I could see it taking all 12 Subs to get from 122.39% to 130%. Similarly with defense, 112.5% seems to be w/ 3 Mains, and 120% is most likely every slot filled.

Yeh, that's my theory too. The only thing that is making me doubt it is that the guide gives some examples such as respawn up that specifically gives the times for 1, 2 and 3 mains and says that the time for 3 mains is the max. It's not impossible that some items max at 3 mains and some max at 3 mains + 9 subs, although that sounds unlikely to me

 

[° Moteki]

I'm curious to know how inkbrush fares with the damage up

 

[Casperr]

I'm curious to know how inkbrush fares with the damage up

Seems to operate the same as everything else. Running directly at a dummy does 20 damage. Scales the same as everything else. Because its hitbox when you swing is quite big and weirdly shaped its definitely to get consistent numbers, but I don't see why it's any different to anything else. There's probably a theoretical max damage if all pellets hit and this will have the same shots to kill restraints as anything else

 

[Agosta44]

Just tested this quickly. Ran past 6 lines in the test area, while aiming at the ground. It is hard to run exactly straight, but I think this is enough evidence that you get a buff still while shooting. Gonna be harder to nail down exact numbers for these kind of things.

You still get a speed penalty for firing, it is noticeable even without timing it exactly.

All in all, I'm not sure how useful Run Speed will be, especially with how creative you can be in Squid Form.

I guess I should also note that I am recording at 30fps on an Elgato, and then timing in Movie Maker.

Run speed is 1 line further for a full ink tank, then .5 for the 2nd and 3rd main skill. It's extremely useful for fast walk speed weapons like Jr. and Aerospray.

 

[Katastrphik]

I made a quick reference video on the basics of how Damage Up gear affects your Inkling. Also with a few situational applications.

There are still some unknowns due to Sub slots, but this should suffice for now.

 

[° Moteki]

I made a quick reference video on the basics of how Damage Up gear affects your Inkling. Also with a few situational applications.

There are still some unknowns due to Sub slots, but this should suffice for now.

One thing that has interested me with dmg up is its viability with charge shot weapons. I've been considering doing dmg up on 1 main and 3 sub abilites for dmg up anywhere else. From what i can tell 2 mains is enough to give you great results for those pinches. Its also good to consider that enemy takes ink damage allowing you to charge 3/4 for the one shot kill( assuming he's on your teams ink) thoughts? trying hard to get a squidforce gear with 3 sub dmg ups to truly see how good this can be

 

[Katastrphik]

One thing that has interested me with dmg up is its viability with charge shot weapons. I've been considering doing dmg up on 1 main and 3 sub abilites for dmg up anywhere else. From what i can tell 2 mains is enough to give you great results for those pinches. Its also good to consider that enemy takes ink damage allowing you to charge 3/4 for the one shot kill( assuming he's on your teams ink) thoughts? trying hard to get a squidforce gear with 3 sub dmg ups to truly see how good this can be

It is probably worth trying out. From what I remember 3 Subs should be roughly equal to 1 Main anyways, which could free up that slot for one of the Main only abilities.
I unfortunately have still had no luck getting more than 1 Sub damage on anything, or else I could play with more situational stuff like this.

Playing with damage may be a way to get more players using chargers. Having a little guide for how long you'd have to charge could be useful for character building.