Why Competitive Splatoon should use all Game Modes instead of one

[Charlight]

@Char
Great points. I think I see what you are saying now. Let me try to articulate it:
When both teams don't NEED to interact for the first 2 minutes it is hard to determine the better team. Using my previous M:tG example, Wizards often bans things based on "interaction," i.e. if something causes a deck to be "non-interactive" is is usually banned. Similarly, in Splatoon, we would want modes that encourage team interaction. I can see how Turf Wars would be the least interactive, given its inherent need to ink turf away from the team.

Not exactly what I mean but you're on the right track. It's that if a game mode is heavily based on fewer interactions (in the case of Turf war the interactions towards the end matter much more than first 2mins), it doesn't decide on which team is better as accurately as a game mode where all the interactions you've had matter more or less equally. The game mode doesn't necessarily need to encourage team interaction, just not make the outcome of the game so heavily based on one or two specific interactions (last 30 seconds or so). Does that make sense? :)

 

[afrochimp]

A last second inkstike does NOT determine a win in any of the ranked modes at all. For example, in TW it does because there isn't anything you can do about it. In any ranked mode, you have a chance. For example, if in TC they last second inkstike the tower and gain control, you have a huge opportunity to take it back and win. It's your fault if you let them take it all the way to the goal. In Turf Wars, the match just ends, there isn't any chance to go and fill the ink in or something. Turf Wars can't be as viable because of how Dependant it is on the last 15 seconds. The in ranked modes, you can't just wait around 4 minutes and get the win last second just like

in smash we dont use normal mode, we change from time to stocks lol

 

[AnchorTea]

I thought of something.

So it's basically confirmed that a team can get lucky in Turf War and win the game when they are losing in the last 30 seconds. One thing we should research on imo is how often does it happen?

That's why I encourage most of you to record how many times a team got lucky in TW at the last 30 seconds, and how many times both teams were somewhat equal during the match, and how many times one team kept dominating the other. If the first option happens the most. I'm sure we can officially declare that TW isn't competitive.

However, I want this research happening only in SplatFest since we are all forced to play TW.

 

[Power]

Well, doing it only in splatfest isn't so great imo. We are trying to look at the competitive side of turf. In a team setting with communication. This is not present at all during splatfest. We have had several examples within the ink or sink tournament that showcased turf's flaws.

 

[AnchorTea]

Well, doing it only in splatfest isn't so great imo. We are trying to look at the competitive side of turf. In a team setting with communication. This is not present at all during splatfest. We have had several examples within the ink or sink tournament that showcased turf's flaws.

Hmmm.... Ok then. I'll still record the results, but you are right about what you said.

The reason I said SplatFest since, well, we're forced to play TW to an addictive amount.

 

[Power]

I feel that many people have come to a consensus on turf war... Anyways...

What about Rainmaker? Does anybody have any thoughts on its competitive viability? Problems that cripple the mode?

Edit: Looking at D3rk's comment. I haven't given it much thought, but kills being another win condition (or some other idea) may revive turf. Somebody could work out a points system of sorts, but who knows...

 

[Captain Norris]

I feel that many people have come to a consensus on turf war... Anyways...

What about Rainmaker? Does anybody have any thoughts on its competitive viability? Problems that cripple the mode?

some maps, such as Urchin Underpass and Bluefin Depot, aren't too bad. But then other maps are pretty awful. Has Rainmaker been in any tournament yet?

 

[Power]

some maps, such as Urchin Underpass and Bluefin Depot, aren't too bad. But then other maps are pretty awful. Has Rainmaker been in any tournament yet?

Not quite, I feel that we should do an all rainmaker tourney. (I know there is a 2v2 one going, but I want a 4v4 one)

 

[Captain Norris]

Not quite, I feel that we should do an all rainmaker tourney. (I know there is a 2v2 one going, but I want a 4v4 one)

You see, I prefer 2v2 to 4v4 in rainmaker. However, I do think that a small scale 4v4 tournament would be good. Like 8-16 teams.

 

[GameGalaxy64]

Not quite, I feel that we should do an all rainmaker tourney. (I know there is a 2v2 one going, but I want a 4v4 one)

This is exactly what I was thinking! We could "Suspect Tournaments" if you will. These tournaments would focus on all Turf Wars, all Rainmaker, map/mode combinations that degenerative play, heck, even weapon combinations, to help further advance the meta. As these would be small, I can't imagine they would be that hard to do and they could be done more frequently.

 

[Agosta44]

I feel that many people have come to a consensus on turf war... Anyways...

What about Rainmaker? Does anybody have any thoughts on its competitive viability? Problems that cripple the mode?

It's unfun and I don't think it's viable like SZ and TC are. It feels more like a mode they added just to say they had another. Camping is huge on basically all maps. Out of bounds is a thing on a couple of maps. You're forced to suicide or prepare ridiculous special/group pushes to ATTEMPT to retrieve the flag if the other team abuses OoB or a choke point in their base. I feel like it's a mode that's either won in the first 30 seconds or a stall war to 5 minutes.

 

[seakingtheonixpected]

Here is what competitive Turf War looks like, just to give everyone a frame of reference:

That's not my channel btw.

 

[Cobbs]

Here is what competitive Turf War looks like, just to give everyone a frame of reference:

That's not my channel btw.

Good vid :)

Just to be clear, every competitive game has its moments where it seems 'broken'. Starcraft, smash, SF, LoL. Drawing conclusions based off of very limited real-world evidence isn't advisable. Imagine if Stocks wasn't the smash ruleset, just because the first few tournaments had a lot of suicides, spikes, and other early kills which made players feel "this isn't how Smash should be played."

Every game could've been swung to have a different ruleset if the players decided it to be a good idea to react to how they're currently playing/understanding the game in an organized and experienced competitive setting. I mean, there's not even a hint of a metagame for competitive play yet, and without one nobody can really draw concrete conclusions.

 

[GameGalaxy64]

Good vid :)

Just to be clear, every competitive game has its moments where it seems 'broken'. Starcraft, smash, SF, LoL. Drawing conclusions based off of very limited real-world evidence isn't advisable. Imagine if Stocks wasn't the smash ruleset, just because the first few tournaments had a lot of suicides, spikes, and other early kills which made players feel "this isn't how Smash should be played."

Every game could've been swung to have a different ruleset if the players decided it to be a good idea to react to how they're currently playing/understanding the game in an organized and experienced competitive setting. I mean, there's not even a hint of a metagame for competitive play yet, and without one nobody can really draw concrete conclusions.

Great conclusion! We should take our time and see how bad these problems actually are and if they persist.

Btw, great vids! :p

 

[Agosta44]

I mean, there's not even a hint of a metagame for competitive play yet

Excuse me what?

 

[GameGalaxy64]

there's not even a hint of a metagame for competitive play yet

Oops, didn't red that far

 

[Charlight]

I mean, there's not even a hint of a metagame for competitive play yet, and without one nobody can really draw concrete conclusions.

er

 

[Cobbs]

I'm speaking compared to competitive esport games. Splatoon is still in its infancy. Even Smash 4 was, yet you see it growing into an adult with the quality of discourse, tournaments, the numerous professionals in the field whom are dedicated to unraveling the game and fully understanding it. Splatoon doesn't have as much as other games when it comes to the intricately dedicated & professionally hardcore/serious community Smash and other titles has. Which is alright :) that just means Splatoon has a road ahead of it.

I think being experienced with other scenes makes you come into competitive Splatoon with a broader perspective. We can't yet think we've got this game fully comprehended & understood. The metagame is not to the point where we can really draw concrete conclusions on certain specific things, naturally. All games are like this, no special treatment. :) Eventually we'll understand things much much better, and we'll all be talking more sense.

As a smash commentator, I've seen people misinterpret a ton of things as of Smash 4's release, but the metagame has matured through the 9 months that the game has been out. It's been a great journey and continues to be. :) Splatoon hasn't had the same time to grow up, but also doesn't have the same scene that Smash 4 was born into. As a result, we have to be our best selves when discussing Splatoon and hold it to the standard of other games. And that pressures our discourse to be smart & focused.

 

[Moy]

The metagame is not to the point where we can really draw concrete conclusions on certain specific things, naturally.

wot

 

[Cobbs]

wot

er

I'm sorry to bring this up, but is that all I can expect from this thread? Discussing the youth of a new game's metagame is a very ordinary and normal topic. If it's not to be admitted to, then I guess an honest discussion can't happen. In every competitive scene I've been a part of, quality discourse has mattered every single time. It's made not only a big difference, but a defining difference in the growth of a game's competitive scene.

I understand we're all big fans of Splatoon, if there's another place to discuss topics like these then I'd appreciate a link. Apologies if this isn't the ideal place to discuss this sort of stuff in depth. Cheers! :) Keep on splatting, squids!