All Tournament Feedback

[Static]

As time has been passing as myself and I'm sure others within the community continue to notice the same issue and problems popping up within different tournaments. Such as:

• DC Rules
• Lag Rules
• Time Limits
• Competitive Bans (Maps/Modes)
• Format
  
• Communication platforms:
• Tournament Times:
• Commentating:
  
• ect.

With that being said I feel as if the feedback threads usually all have the same complaints in them, so maybe we should try and create some kind of unified rule set. Or at least a unified complaint list, as I'm am not sure if tournament organizers currently read through other tournament feedback threads outside of their own tournaments to see how they can improve their own tournaments from watching others fail.

Feedback format:

• Tournament name(s)/date:
• Topic:
• Topic's issue:
  
• Potential Solutions:

• Other:

Any other ideas?

 

[Fightersword]

I occasionally look through some other feedback threads, both good and bad ones. That being said general feedback is nice. But I don't believe a unified ruleset will become a thing, as TO's will always have their own opinions on things, and we also want people to have the room to test out things without being bombasted for not using the 'unified rule set'. But knowing which problems are the biggest and why from several different standpoints can allow TOs to know what they should change, why, and things to test etc. I'm all in favor of 'unified complaint list'. Of course I'm in charge of SCL tournaments, so I'll provide some information about some rulesets we have for easy access, and why the rule is as it is if people ask/make suggestions.

Current D/C rule

Spoiler

>If a team has at least one person drop in the course of the match, then that team must stop playing immediately and call for a replay. The same setup and player list must be used for the replay, except in the case where a person cannot reconnect for whatever reason, then that person may be swapped out. Matches can only be replayed in this manner once by each team per round, so any D/Cs in matches after that one must be played out. If the match ends very quickly afterwards so that it is very clear it wouldn't have made a difference in the results, then this rule cannot be invoked. If a team continues to play after a D/C it will be presumed they did not intend to call for a replay.

Also, if a large amount of people randomly D/C from both teams, both teams must stop playing and a replay will be played. This replay does not count as either team's replay

We do not have any official rules regarding lag, though we do recommend changing hosts if things are really bad.

We don't have any official rules regarding time limits, but that's mostly because we've never needed them. The need for them and what rule to use would vary wildly from tournament to tournament.

For comp bans it seems like most people are generally in agreement to run everything other than turf war, and all the maps, usually with RM at lower frequency just because people tend to dislike it more than the others. I personally use Halo map/mode, which also helps SCL stay known for speed and which I personally like for splatoon; some people use others.

Format should be entirely left up to the TOs, but they should understand how to run the format they do and be able to do it efficiently. However, knowing which ones the community prefers the most would be swell.

Other topics
Communication platforms: A lot use discord now. I feel it should be the norm, though TOs should do more to help players find players from the team they're facing on discord, probably just from taking up a list of 1-2 reps for discord from each team during signups.
Commentating: just general procedure for that, and what people like in commentating and dislike in it
Tournament time: what time benefits most people. This also varies a lot from tournament to tournament. SCL has been running 1PM EST Sunday for almost every tournament, and we feel it's worked out well.

 

[Static]

• Tournament name(s)/date: In regards to BB4 and SLC 6
  
• Topic: New map releases
  
• Topic's issue: New Maps being added to tournament rotation too soon.
  
• Potential Solutions: There needs to be some kind of dead period before allowing new maps in tournament play, aside from balancing issues more so so that every team has a fair chance at learning said maps. My ideal time line would be one week after a maps release they're allowed to be used in tournament rations.

 

[Njok]

I know I do read through every feedback thread and take from that what I can. Pretty sure so does Kres, but I can't speak for others.

I'll find some time later to go into my view on some points that are being made, but for now i'd like to leave some general remarks about feedback here.

Note that this is not a complaint or directed at anyone. It's just stuff I noticed.

1. Feedback threads generally don't get much attention. While I get that any complaints a team may have had were probably already voiced on discord during the tournament, it’s a lot better for TO’S to have them listed in a thread.

2. I feel as if a lot of issues could be resolved if everyone just read the rules before going into the tournament. Not agreeing with the rules is fine and there are feedback threads for that. Not knowing the rules is something else. But perhaps we should think about posting them more clearly.

3. Some things that are being brought up are simply not as easy to deal with. Lag is a perfect example of that. Ideally we all would like a rule on it, it's not as if we enjoy it. But it just isn't as simple as banning the person that lags. There are discussions on that already and someone with a more technical background can explain it better, but I just wanted to bring up the point that if a rule doesn't come from this sort of feedback, it doesn't mean it's not been discussed.

Tbc at a later time.

 

[Kbot]

I know I do read through every feedback thread and take from that what I can. Pretty sure so does Kres, but I can't speak for others.

I try. Sometimes it's hard to do, but I try to read every feedback thread.

 

[Aweshucks]

I also read all of the SCL feedback threads and am keeping a close eye on this one as well

 

[Fightersword]

making rules can be pretty tough, too. I personally distinguish rules from framework, with framework being the sort of road the tournament goes down, while rules are things that keep people from straying too far off the road. I like this distinction because it better allows people to analyze if things went wrong with the tournament framework itself or some of the rules around the framework.

as an example I made a ****ty infographic with some examples of what I consider framework and what I consider rules.

Spoiler

In general rules are more often 'don't do this' while framework is more often 'do this', though there are of course plenty of exceptions.

Next I wrote down seven guidelines I keep in mind when making a rule. If a rule doesn't arguably meet all these guidelines, it tends to cause problems in some way or other. I'll put them down and put a short explanation of what can happen if not followed.

1. The rule is clear as are its punishments
If not followed can lead to confusion or anger in the players.
2. The rule is fair and easy enough to follow
If not followed can lead to teams getting frustrated or angry because they'll feel screwed out of a game or feel they can't follow it.
3. The rule punishes the right parties and punishes them a correct amount
If you punish both teams for something that's only one team's fault, the other team will probably get mad. IE. person has a deck error in yugioh, if they were
made to replay the game rather than giving the person with the error a loss, that would be punishing the wrong person.
Also for correct amount. Basically throwing people out of your tournament for small offenses will piss people off.
4. The rule cannot be used for gain, or if that’s impossible, the rule results in the least amount of gain possible
This is a more gray area. Rules like D/C rules need to be crafted so people can't D/C for advantage, as much as you can reasonably do without violating the other guidelines. You really don't want teams taking advantage of rules, because it makes your tournament look shoddy and makes absolutely everyone think twice about entering future tournaments
5. The rule is relevant to the tournament
Don't force people to do things like sub to a channel or follow a page to enter, unless there's a good reason for it. It Just annoys people.
6. The rule is enforceable without overly high amounts of trouble or good faith
Good faith means essentially assuming the team is telling the truth. Requiring evidence means your rule gives essentially gives no good faith, which is the best if it doesn't cause other problems. For D/C rules I think a middleground is best to keep things from stalling and to make it easy to follow. Rules are enforceable if you can reasonably watch teams to keep them from breaking them, which is why I shy away from rules that are match time sensitive, because I cannot reasonably watch every match time for split second things, even if I had a big team and everyone streamed.
7. The rule doesn’t negatively affect the tournament’s timetable when evoked. (Typically this means slowing the tournament down noticeably)
If your rule makes tournaments run noticeably longer, it probably needs revising. Tournaments with rules that cause time to stretch on can exhaust everyone involved

Those are typically what I go with when I make rules. Number 6 is probably the hardest guideline to follow perfectly because it's very gray.