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It looks like Nintendo is starting to slowly stop supporting the Wii U.

YOJOEHOJO

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Well, of course they are not supporting it as much as they used to. Project NX is going to be announced this year (or the next) and if they keep supporting the current console it's only going to harm them in the long run. Granted, they were lacking support for the Wii U to begin with due to the fact of many failures within even trying to. These being, and not limited to, things such as: 3rd Party Developers pulling out of several deals that were made prior to the Wii U's release, a horrible ad campaign that made everyone think that the Wii U was just an add-on for the original Wii (unless you live in European territories, that is. Then those advertisements actually did make it clear.), and the Wii U flopping for the first year and quite awhile after that. I actually was in a podcast episode discussing these problems with a friend.
 
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CM2

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Well, of course they are not supporting it as much as they used to. Project NX is going to be announced this year (or the next) and if they keep supporting the current console it's only going to harm them in the long run. Granted, they were lacking support for the Wii U to begin with due to the fact of many failures within even trying to. These being, and not limited to, things such as: 3rd Party Developers pulling out of several deals that were made prior to the Wii U's release, a horrible ad campaign that made everyone think that the Wii U was just an add-on for the original Wii (unless you live in European territories, that is. Then those advertisements actually did make it clear.), and the Wii U flopping for the first year and quite awhile after that. I actually was in a podcast episode discussing these problems with a friend.
They confirm they will talk about the Nintendo NX this year.
 

YOJOEHOJO

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They confirm they will talk about the Nintendo NX this year.
Reason why I said "or the next" in parenthesis is because of the fact that I hadn't really been keeping up as of late when it came to that, but was pretty sure of the fact it's going to be this year. I had my suspicions that it would be this year since 2014/2015, back when I started looking into getting a Wii U. I had watched a video a few months back posted by AlphaOmegaSin which confirmed my suspicion, but I of course wanted to make sure I had room for error.
 

Flareth

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Meh, I never really used either one, so it's no big whoop for me.

At any rate, I'm both a little surprised and not entirely surprised if/that they really are phasing it out. Surprised in that it's happening so soon, not surprised in that, well, it's happening so soon. I won't deny that the Wii U's on its last legs, but... I mean, shoot, even the GameCube lasted for 6 years. Was the U really that bad that it couldn't last a full console generation?

The closest thing I can think of for comparison is the Virtual Boy coming out, only to be dumped a few months later and replaced by the N64 in the next year. Now the Wii U isn't anywhere near the VB in terms of failure-ness, but the similarity seems evident to me, just on a longer time scale.

I'm still not fully convinced that the NX is gonna drop this year, but if it is, I have no objections to that.
...well, I do have doubts that releasing a new console in the middle of this generation is a wise move, but I'm open to proof that proves otherwise.
 

YOJOEHOJO

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The closest thing I can think of for comparison is the Virtual Boy coming out, only to be dumped a few months later and replaced by the N64 in the next year. Now the Wii U isn't anywhere near the VB in terms of failure-ness, but the similarity seems evident to me, just on a longer time scale.
It's actually nearly identical to the scenario of the SEGA Saturn to the SEGA Dreamcast. SEGA had given up on the Saturn nearly right off the bat and only gave it a 4 year life span until the Dreamcast came out. Nintendo has given the Wii U exactly a 4 year life span, and now it's moving on. I will note that this crippled SEGA in many regards, and I'm surprised that Nintendo is following in their footsteps. However, I think whatever they have up their sleeve will probably be something worth moving on to. Plus, they have enough money to see another failing console and still survive. SEGA did not.
 
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Well, Nintendo's been working on the Wii U for a few years now, they made it much before PS4 or Xbox One, so I guess to them its just becoming outdated like the rest, but hey, at least we still have Splatfests and updates.
 

Celeste

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To be honest it's not like they are shutting off major online services. They chose to discontinue these projects as they felt people were not really using them anymore and wanted to spend more of their time and resources on other things - well, that's what they said. As Nintendo have already stated numerous times before, the NX is not going to replace the WiiU and I do not doubt we will get more games released on the WiiU. We still have Zelda U to look forward to and I certainly think that the release of such a big title like that will cause a rise in sales for the consoles. There are a lot of really great games on the WiiU - of course it's not selling as well as perhaps the DS or Wii but they were revolutionary consoles that heavily influenced gaming, so it always was going to be hard to always move on from something as iconic or popular as the Wii.
 

Award

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It's actually nearly identical to the scenario of the SEGA Saturn to the SEGA Dreamcast. SEGA had given up on the Saturn nearly right off the bat and only gave it a 4 year life span until the Dreamcast came out. Nintendo has given the Wii U exactly a 4 year life span, and now it's moving on. I will note that this crippled SEGA in many regards, and I'm surprised that Nintendo is following in their footsteps. However, I think whatever they have up their sleeve will probably be something worth moving on to. Plus, they have enough money to see another failing console and still survive. SEGA did not.
SEGA's situation was far worse, and a lot more complicated. The Saturn isn't what pushed Sega to the brink, it was the last straw after a mountain of disastrous decisions, including disastrous decisions relating to Saturn's launch. Nintendo has a product that failed to meet expectations, however it is STILL a profitable product along side a massively profitable product (3DS). Nintendo didn't lose money on WiiU. Nobody goes out of business by making a profit, but you do move on to a product that might meet expectations. Sega (and especially Sega of America) was just mismanaged through and through.

You have to rewind to the duo of add-ons to see the whole story. First they release the Sega CD. And they fail to support it beyond a relatively small library of games. They tried promoting the Sega CD as its own platform even though it was a Genesis add-on. Then 3 years later they release 32x, which they again try to sell as a new platform to head off the early 32-bit era despite being an add on. Yet this addon could also work in conjunction with the Sega CD addon. Virtually NO games are released on this new platform. Then the SAME year (in Japan), one year later in the west, they clearance out 32x for, literally $40 (I actually owned one for about a week before returning it upon realizing how worthless it was :)) and release the Saturn. So they turned around what they tried to sell as 3 different platforms only to abandon them in a period of 4 years. Consumer interest at this point was getting pretty thin. But the story gets worse.

Pre-Saturn launch, they lined up their launch retail partners and 3rd party developers, etc. Then they came out at E3 with an arrogance undeserved. They declared a ridiculous price for their Saturn. Then they announced the bombshell surprise: The console would launch earlier than they told their partners! And to prepare for this surprise launch they already shipped out inventory to several retail partners! This had two effects. The first, the retail partners that they completely stiffed by cutting them out of launch immediately liquidated their entire Sega inventory and cut of all future sales relationship with Sega. As of that moment, half the popular retailers wouldn't sell anything Sega. The other half was the deadline they gave 3rd party game publishers was now invalid. Which meant the 3rd party games would not be there for launch, which prioritized sales for Sega's own games. Many of these 3rd parties also immediately cut off relationships with Sega. And then Sony takes the stage for their long rumored Playstation announcment and declares the price was 25% less than Saturn ($300/$400.)

So at this point Sega burned their bridges with 3rd party software, with half their retailers, and with their consumers via 3 consoles in 5 years, and they're not price competitive to boot. Things were looking bad. At this point Sega (as a console maker) was dead. They knew it. Dreamcast wasn't the final nail so much as a swan song from a company that knew it was over. They did pull Saturn before its time was up to launch Dreamcast which they committed all resources to make the absolute best machine they could make. Contrary to popular thinking the Dreamcast didn't actually sell badly, especially in light of having no launch partners at all. But they were so deep in a hole it needed to sell at Wii levels of success just to keep producing it. It didn't, and it was killed quickly along with the entire console division.

So, no, there's no similarity between Sega's demise and the Wii U at all. It looks that way if you glance at the numbers, but Sega's situation was so many horrific decisions and strings of failures piled up for years with zero success in between,, compared to Nintendo having merely a profitable product that wasn't as profitable as expected (while also selling the 3DS, the #1 selling console of the generation as a follow-up to the DS & Wii the #1&2 of last generation, one of which the #1 of all time. ) Nintendo also has brand power that amiibo launches sell out in 20 minutes and end up being scalped for fortunes. In the late 90's you couldn't sell a Sega figurine for the price of a chili dog. ;))

The press likes to make the WiiU sound worse than it is from a sales standpoint. It's Year on Year sales are lower than PS4, but it's lifetime sales (with an extra year on the market) are actually higher than PS4. Way higher than XBox One. It's pretty sad when even the XBox head Phil Spencer had to defend the sales of the WiiU from the press. (And why shouldn't he? We didn't know at the time what he knew: He was releasing Minecraft on WiiU, now #1 in Japan....;))
 
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Award

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Disclaimer: Opinion.

I mentioned in another thread, I don't think the Wii U was EVER meant to be a huge success. I think it was a stopgap and Iwata estimating huge sales numbers in the beginning was either him being completely clueless (since this is Iwata we're talking about, I highly doubt that) or him playing investors like a fiddle (which is very Iwata.) If the rumors of NX as a hybrid are true, that's in line with what I expected.

Handheld has been Nintendo's strength for a long time, to the point that during the Wii years, most of the "real games" were on the DS, not the Wii. It's no secret that maintaining two platforms, especially in the 3DS/WiiU era has been painful for them, and it's not something they ever really wanted to have to do, it's just that tech limited them to need to keep the hardware seperate. That era of tech is coming to a close - there's no reason a console needs to be separate from a handheld in the era of phones, tablets, AppleTV's.

The nature of the Wii U being sort of a handheld system that's also a console (but not really) always seemed to me they were nudging toward. From the moment "Cafe" was rumored that's what it seemed like. I love handheld gaming and love the offscreen features so it always seemed logical but incomplete. And then as soon as WiiU launched Iwata discussed the plans for unifying the handheld and console hardware divisions, building a new HQ to house it all. The merging of all the software units that was rushed through as an emergency action upon his death was not something they could conjure overnight - that was his own plan in the works but wasn't technically supposed to happen yet. The moment WIiU launched everything in Nintendo started moving toward unified hardware.

At his last investors meeting Iwata answered a question about NX (after saying he wouldn't answer questions about NX :D) he commented that he was aware of the difference in how Japan and the West have different play preferences (mobile vs. home console) and they are always trying to figure out how to cater to both with NX. Most signs seem to point to a 1-2 piece hardware that is both portable and TV based with a unified software lineup.

What that means if true is that WiiU was, internally, always intended to last through the HANDHELD cycle, not the console cycle, as a hybrid would have to replace 3DS first as it's naturally at the end of it's console cycle. Meaning this is exactly when it was intended to remain current.
But they'll continue supporting it with software right after release (they still sold Wii for a year or two after Wii U as well. And Pokemon B&W release on DS only after 3DS released.)

Speculation on NX being its own thing, but as it relates to WiiU, my opinion is WiiU was a test project and a holdover to give Nintendo a relevant HD platform while waiting for 3DS's sun to set to release the unified new platform that replaces them both, ending software droughts due to supporting one instead of two platforms. It's also possible WiiU software runs on a handheld battery powered NX. That means Splatoon in the park! NGYES/WOOMY!! WiiU seemed questionably powerful to a lot of console fans, but if WiiU was a precursor for a battery powered WiiU that fits in a pocket, that would be darned impressive.

I'm sure NX will be somewhat different than I'm expecting, but I have little doubt that the unified hardware - one platform for handheld/console will be true (though you probably have to buy both halves separately, because this is Nintendo.)

Also, if all that is true, releasing NX this year doesn't make sense, but I can't see them waiting either. All signs seem to point to it even though it's too soon. If it's two parts it might make sense the handheld part releases this year (replace the aging 3DS) and release the home part the following year. Or the other way around, replace the ailing Wii U this year, and keep 3DS momentum until the following year. Early games could possibly be dual release for both as many suspect Zelda U will be.

In any case it's a weird generational jump with timing because ultimately if all that is true, they're merging what was two platforms and two customer bases into one for the first time since 1989.

All that said, I love the Wii U & 3DS and will be exceedingly sad to see them go. Wii U only got into its groove recently, but 3DS may have replaced SNES as my favorite console of all time. It wasn't a great era to be a Nintendo investor, but it's been a great time to be a Nintendo gamer! And also, we have all those fond Iwata memories from the E3's and directs of the 3DS/WiiU era. :(
 

YOJOEHOJO

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SEGA's situation was far worse, and a lot more complicated. The Saturn isn't what pushed Sega to the brink, it was the last straw after a mountain of disastrous decisions, including disastrous decisions relating to Saturn's launch. Nintendo has a product that failed to meet expectations, however it is STILL a profitable product along side a massively profitable product (3DS). Nintendo didn't lose money on WiiU. Nobody goes out of business by making a profit, but you do move on to a product that might meet expectations. Sega (and especially Sega of America) was just mismanaged through and through.

You have to rewind to the duo of add-ons to see the whole story. First they release the Sega CD. And they fail to support it beyond a relatively small library of games. They tried promoting the Sega CD as its own platform even though it was a Genesis add-on. Then 3 years later they release 32x, which they again try to sell as a new platform to head off the early 32-bit era despite being an add on. Yet this addon could also work in conjunction with the Sega CD addon. Virtually NO games are released on this new platform. Then the SAME year (in Japan), one year later in the west, they clearance out 32x for, literally $40 (I actually owned one for about a week before returning it upon realizing how worthless it was :)) and release the Saturn. So they turned around what they tried to sell as 3 different platforms only to abandon them in a period of 4 years. Consumer interest at this point was getting pretty thin. But the story gets worse.

Pre-Saturn launch, they lined up their launch retail partners and 3rd party developers, etc. Then they came out at E3 with an arrogance undeserved. They declared a ridiculous price for their Saturn. Then they announced the bombshell surprise: The console would launch earlier than they told their partners! And to prepare for this surprise launch they already shipped out inventory to several retail partners! This had two effects. The first, the retail partners that they completely stiffed by cutting them out of launch immediately liquidated their entire Sega inventory and cut of all future sales relationship with Sega. As of that moment, half the popular retailers wouldn't sell anything Sega. The other half was the deadline they gave 3rd party game publishers was now invalid. Which meant the 3rd party games would not be there for launch, which prioritized sales for Sega's own games. Many of these 3rd parties also immediately cut off relationships with Sega. And then Sony takes the stage for their long rumored Playstation announcment and declares the price was 25% less than Saturn ($300/$400.)

So at this point Sega burned their bridges with 3rd party software, with half their retailers, and with their consumers via 3 consoles in 5 years, and they're not price competitive to boot. Things were looking bad. At this point Sega (as a console maker) was dead. They knew it. Dreamcast wasn't the final nail so much as a swan song from a company that knew it was over. They did pull Saturn before its time was up to launch Dreamcast which they committed all resources to make the absolute best machine they could make. Contrary to popular thinking the Dreamcast didn't actually sell badly, especially in light of having no launch partners at all. But they were so deep in a hole it needed to sell at Wii levels of success just to keep producing it. It didn't, and it was killed quickly along with the entire console division.

So, no, there's no similarity between Sega's demise and the Wii U at all. It looks that way if you glance at the numbers, but Sega's situation was so many horrific decisions and strings of failures piled up for years with zero success in between,, compared to Nintendo having merely a profitable product that wasn't as profitable as expected (while also selling the 3DS, the #1 selling console of the generation as a follow-up to the DS & Wii the #1&2 of last generation, one of which the #1 of all time. ) Nintendo also has brand power that amiibo launches sell out in 20 minutes and end up being scalped for fortunes. In the late 90's you couldn't sell a Sega figurine for the price of a chili dog. ;))

The press likes to make the WiiU sound worse than it is from a sales standpoint. It's Year on Year sales are lower than PS4, but it's lifetime sales (with an extra year on the market) are actually higher than PS4. Way higher than XBox One. It's pretty sad when even the XBox head Phil Spencer had to defend the sales of the WiiU from the press. (And why shouldn't he? We didn't know at the time what he knew: He was releasing Minecraft on WiiU, now #1 in Japan....;))
I know what went down with SEGA, don't talk down to me just because I wasn't saying every little detail. I am very minimal with details unless they are really needed, and with that being said I felt like sharing all the details about something that I believe this even remotely resembles would be just too much. The resemblance is there, albeit in a very small degree.
 

Award

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I know what went down with SEGA, don't talk down to me just because I wasn't saying every little detail. I am very minimal with details unless they are really needed, and with that being said I felt like sharing all the details about something that I believe this even remotely resembles would be just too much. The resemblance is there, albeit in a very small degree.
Fair enough, and I wasn't "talking down to you" just adding the background that many people are unaware of and disagreeing with your conclusion. Others have made the same conclusion for years since the whole "Nintendo is doomed" rhetoric began when Wii U sales failed to uptick. Given all the background there, I'd really have to strain to see any similarity to the situations.

One other key difference is Sega, like Sony and Microsoft sold software to sell more hardware, while Nintendo is first and foremost a software publisher who uses their close hardware platform to sell more software. It's just a thoroughly different business model. Wii U attach rate is stellar - just for Splatoon, there's over 4M copies on a 12M unit install base. That's incredible for a game that wasn't even a pack-in until 2 months ago!

Actually XBox's situation is a lot more similar to Sega's than Nintendo's is. While the WiiU hasn't lit up the charts, it at least is profitable. And the predecessor console was extremely profitable. XBox on the other hand, the entire division, has never made a penny. It's actually lost vast fortunes. People (and investors) see it as successful because of it's market share, but in reality they SPEND money running XBox, they don't make money. They sell hardware at a loss (as does Sony) effectively PAYING customers to take the system. Their marketing and advertising and various expenses are through the roof. MS management and investors want to dump the Xbox division like it's toxic waste - because it is. It started as a trojan horse to get Windows into the living room in an era where "beige box" PCs were confined to office rooms, laptops didn't stand in for desktops, and tablets & phones didn't exist. They were willing to spend unlimited money to push Windows to the every-day experience through XBox. That era is over, and they're left with running a console program that costs them money to compete in. And the XBox One isn't selling very well outside the US, while, like Saturn, Sony undercut them $100 at E3.
Fun fact (if you didn't know) Microsoft hired the newly failed Sega to help them design the original XBox - so XBONE is kind of "Dreamcast 4" in a way, spiritually at least.

Sony...I think Playstation is safe no matter what happens to Sony. It's propping most of Sony up at this point along with optical/medical-imaging and the battery divisions. Playstation is doing very well, and I think even if they spin it off or sell it it can do well. But Sony proper remains in deep, deep trouble. But they might have a weird generation of their own. If they end up separating from Sony they lose shared hardware and can no longer sell hardware at a loss. They'll have to hold in place and be "underpowered" as well.

Nintendo is probably the most secure in their place of all the console mfr. despite all the hysteria. People always forget they're selling 2 consoles, and the 3DS can be considered their main product. (Nobody says Playstation is doomed because Vita failed, for example.) My fear with Nintendo isn't the WiiU sales. It's their new obsession with Amiibo, theme parks, merchandising, etc. my fear is that they'll become a branding company like Disney, driven by merchandising and a loss in quality of their core products will ensue. That won't happen so long as Miyamoto is in charge of software quality, but longer term, there's much to worry about with that. The investors saw green in the Wii & DS era and keep trying to hold Nintendo to the same expected profits. Iwata played into that a little too much, and I think Kimishima seems headed that way too, though it could just be because right now they can't promote consoles as the foundation of their business forecasts since they can't talk about NX at all.
 

birdiebee

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@Award I just wanna say I really enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. Your analyses are really interesting to think about and you propose a lot of points I think many people overlook, and put into words a lot of my feelings toward the subject which I have been unable to! So thanks!

I just wanna build on that XBox is performing poorly outside the US point-- it's true. If you ever find yourself in a Japanese electronics store, notice how miniscule XBox's selection of products are compared to any Sony or Nintendo ones. Even Vita (which admittedly is far less of a flop over in Japan) has at least twice as much shelf space in a Bic Camera than XBone.
 

Award

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@Award I just wanna say I really enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. Your analyses are really interesting to think about and you propose a lot of points I think many people overlook, and put into words a lot of my feelings toward the subject which I have been unable to! So thanks!

I just wanna build on that XBox is performing poorly outside the US point-- it's true. If you ever find yourself in a Japanese electronics store, notice how miniscule XBox's selection of products are compared to any Sony or Nintendo ones. Even Vita (which admittedly is far less of a flop over in Japan) has at least twice as much shelf space in a Bic Camera than XBone.
Thanks for the kind words! :)

Yes, the monthly sales charts are almost comedy when it comes to XBox in Japan. Most month's it's under 1000 units, very many months it's under 300 units. For a country with the population density (and propensity of that population to purchase any and all new electronics) of Japan to move a whopping 300 units of a product in a month is unthinkable. It probably costs them more per month to warehouse them then they make selling them. I sometimes consider how the relationship of Xbox and Nintendo might evolve. Xbox has what amounts to a cost negative market in Japan, yet the recent Minecraft collaboration shows there's some demand for Xbox published software in Japan - as long as it's Nintendo branded. Combined with the constant praise XBox management showers on Nintendo, and their own knowledge of their parent company's unhappiness with their division, I imagine they know they'll be sold off at some point, if not directly closed. I get the sense they're being very careful to keep doors open and not burn any bridges with customers, partners, and even competitors that could become partners. The Pre XBox One arrogance seems completely gone and they seem to be doing everything they can to avoid Sega's mistakes. XBox is no longer really Microsoft - MS doesn't even want them.
 

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