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Are double-splats worth it?

Nintendo

Inkster Jr.
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
16
NNID
Gatoray
Two squid kids shoot each other and both die in a spectacular multicolored explosion of ink.

Is this good or bad? And why?

Obviously, if this can be avoided, it's bad. But if you know you're going to die should you go for an intentional double-splat? What about "2 for 1" or "3 for 1" trades? At what point does it become "worth it" or "not worth it"?
 

Terabyte

Inkling Commander
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
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300
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West Virginia
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PokeBoy99
If I think I have no chance of surviving, I'll try my best to splat them too. You and the enemy both dying is better than just you imo.
 

halpenstance

Inkling
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
11
For me I guess it depends on where it happens on the map. For example, if I see an enemy right next to my base, and I manage to double-splat, then I think I've gotten a better trade. It's much faster for me to respawn, cover his ink while I go to the middle, all while he gets to do nothing until he reaches the battle again.

Same could be said in the last 10 seconds, for example. If your team is winning, then imagine if every single person double-splatted. That would force everything the 9 second respawn, and you'd win. Obviously that doesn't happen, but if you take someone out with you, then it pauses both of your actions, which could be seen as better for the winning team.

Another example could include holding off a point. Like the upper area of Saltspray Rig. If you just got done inking it, then you see someone else rolling in, double-splatting them prevents them from taking it. You then both rush back over and reset. If you continue to do this, you'll always maintain control. Which is a positive thing.
 

missingno

Inkling Fleet Admiral
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missingno
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It really depends on the current game-state and position. If it's in our own territory, pushing them back to spawn while I don't have much of a trip back, alright. If we have the Splat Zone and just need to focus on stalling them out, good. If I've got live teammates nearby and they were alone, creating an opening to push, great. If it's the opposite, uh oh.
 

Nukichuu

Inkling Cadet
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May 8, 2015
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279
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Nukikero
Depends on the Mode. In Turf Wars i usually try to avoid fights that could end in a "double splat" because i know im better than anyone else anyway so theres no need to attack an enemy.
In Ranked its a bit different, Double Splats are good for the "Defending Team" but bad for the "Attacking Team"
 

Mayday

Row, Row, Fight the Power!
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
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92
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MaydayBelieves
Really depends on the situation. Obviously it's better to trade kills than to die. If help is rotating over to the opponent and none is coming your way, it's not a terrible option to go for the trade
 

shane3x

Full Squid
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
47
Double splats seem to be mostly lag related. Definite exception is 2 rollers hitting each other. In rare occasions certain direct match ups may result in a legit double splat but yeah mostly lag.
 

Funen1

Full Squid
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You could argue a lot of situations would fall under the "if it can be avoided" idea. The main exception would of course be when you're already in a substantial disadvantage and are probably going to die anyway, which has already been discussed. However, the vast majority of trades currently seen in this game are due to lag, as @shane3x mentioned. The thing is, the community as a whole doesn't seem to understand how to play around this yet, hence why we're seeing all these murky trades from things like rollers hitting you from twice their actual range. These kinds of trades will never be considered "worth it" - they can most definitely be avoided, but it's still gonna take some time for a noticeable number of players to learn how best to do this.
 

Alus

Senior Squid
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69
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starsauce
Double splats are better than no splats.

You will always benefit MORE from not getting splatted however.

That's all there really is to say about it.
 

Box

Pro Squid
Joined
May 14, 2015
Messages
140
I won a lot of matches just by trading splats with the Krak-On Roller. I had quick respawn x2 and quick super jump and would just jump right back to the beacon. At the end of the match, I'd be like 12/12.

Whether a trade is worth it depends on the situation. If you have control and the rest of your team is alive, it might be worth it. If you're pushing, a trade is totally useless unless you have teammates to capitalize. Really, every time you trade, you're depending on your team to take advantage of the situation you've created.
 
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growly

Inkling
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
13
I swear I get double splats more often then not. Glad to hear it is lag related, which is what I assumed. I am getting new internet to shortly which will hopefully help dramatically.

Exactly how would you suggest playing around the lag?
 

IsmaR

was tentacles all along
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If my team is in the favorable position, no question.

It usually helps that I run Quick Respawn.
 

Funen1

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I swear I get double splats more often then not. Glad to hear it is lag related, which is what I assumed. I am getting new internet to shortly which will hopefully help dramatically.

Exactly how would you suggest playing around the lag?
Well, not all trades are lag-related, just a bunch of them. Things like two Rollers splatting each other at the same time makes enough sense, and the very limited speeds of ink shots means there will always be some window in which two players could get shots off before they die, and then those shots end up killing both of them. Lag between systems simply increases the size of this window by virtue of how the electrical signals are sent received, namely, opposing players receive the signals from your actions slightly later than when you did them. Essentially, other players will always see you where you were instead of where you actually are. However, this game still treats you hitting where they appear on your screen ("where they were") as if they were really there, and they will be killed accordingly. That's basically why trades in close-quarters seem to happen so often - players are continuously, and perhaps unknowingly, putting themselves into a situation that's actually very ambiguous by nature. The obvious solution to playing around this kind of lag is simply to not put yourself into that situation, i.e., make sure they're not firing at you when you're firing at them - the "golden rule of shooters" as it's said. Granted, you should be doing that anyway, but the influence of lag just means that there's less wiggle room to this concept. Kiting Rollers, for instance, is still possible with good enough movement, but it becomes harder than it should be because they can hit your "ghost" and have it work.

And fair warning, getting a better connection on your end won't save you from a bad connection on the other, or from someone who's simply very far away from you. It takes a noticeable amount of time (as in, on the scale of frames, reaching up to seconds on occasion) for these signals to go literally around the world and back to your console, as described above. That's just physics. It sucks that it can impact how the game plays, but there's nothing anyone can do to change that, you can only adapt to it.
 

growly

Inkling
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
13
Well, not all trades are lag-related, just a bunch of them. Things like two Rollers splatting each other at the same time makes enough sense, and the very limited speeds of ink shots means there will always be some window in which two players could get shots off before they die, and then those shots end up killing both of them. Lag between systems simply increases the size of this window by virtue of how the electrical signals are sent received, namely, opposing players receive the signals from your actions slightly later than when you did them. Essentially, other players will always see you where you were instead of where you actually are. However, this game still treats you hitting where they appear on your screen ("where they were") as if they were really there, and they will be killed accordingly. That's basically why trades in close-quarters seem to happen so often - players are continuously, and perhaps unknowingly, putting themselves into a situation that's actually very ambiguous by nature. The obvious solution to playing around this kind of lag is simply to not put yourself into that situation, i.e., make sure they're not firing at you when you're firing at them - the "golden rule of shooters" as it's said. Granted, you should be doing that anyway, but the influence of lag just means that there's less wiggle room to this concept. Kiting Rollers, for instance, is still possible with good enough movement, but it becomes harder than it should be because they can hit your "ghost" and have it work.

And fair warning, getting a better connection on your end won't save you from a bad connection on the other, or from someone who's simply very far away from you. It takes a noticeable amount of time (as in, on the scale of frames, reaching up to seconds on occasion) for these signals to go literally around the world and back to your console, as described above. That's just physics. It sucks that it can impact how the game plays, but there's nothing anyone can do to change that, you can only adapt to it.
Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated. My current connection is awful, but also being in Australia obviously doesn't help. Will take your advice on board. Cheers.
 

Vexen

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Double splats seem to be mostly lag related. Definite exception is 2 rollers hitting each other. In rare occasions certain direct match ups may result in a legit double splat but yeah mostly lag.
I wouldn't say its lag, there are different firing rates for different guns, so you could have players deal fatal damage tot he other just as they die.

Also I dislike the term "double splat" because it really isn't a double splat because one side isn't splatting 2 enemies. It's more like "mutual splat"
 

shane3x

Full Squid
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
47
I wouldn't say its lag, there are different firing rates for different guns, so you could have players deal fatal damage tot he other just as they die.

Also I dislike the term "double splat" because it really isn't a double splat because one side isn't splatting 2 enemies. It's more like "mutual splat"
With how the game deals with netcode I'd say the majority are, whether its a overwhelming majority or not thats another question but since you are shooting where you are shooting where the enemy is on your screen and not where the enemy is on his own game its more then likely its lag related. There definitely can be times where a situation arises where weapon types and range line up that result in two players killing each other but its easy to tell when lag is and isnt involved.

I just went with the OP's term, it rolls off the tongue easier.
 

JuddTheCat

Inkling Cadet
Joined
May 9, 2015
Messages
182
Depends on the situation. If you are surrounded by their ink, you should try to take him down with you. If there is a lot of your ink behind you, you should be able to escape...Though the enemy will probably follow you.
 

Zoot

Inkling Commander
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May 4, 2015
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336
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Surrey, UK
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IveGotAMegaphone
It's not down to lag at all. Every time I've been a victim of double-splat, it's because I tried an ambush, but I'm so bad at aiming that I let my advantage slip and we ended up destroying each other. Alternatively, the enemy might have tried to ambush me, but their aim was poor and I was able to retaliate.

A double-splat is better than no splat at all, mainly because it can provide an opening for your team to push through. If you're off on your own when it happens and no one brought backup, then both splatees were just wasting their time.
 

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