Counters against (Insert weapon)

[Power]

During splatzones I have had the most trouble against these two weapons, the Dynamo roller and most forms of blasters.(More than 2 I know)

The Dynamo user:
usually perches themselves on an area and sprays their ink over and over preventing anybody from entering the zone. If i get to close, its usually over and my weapon does not out range the dynamo. Any tips on counters against them?

Blasters:
I feel like in many 1v1 confrontations I lose against a blaster or end up in a draw (both of us die) Usually the only way I get past them is by flanking, however does anybody have other tips against them?
(I mainly use the Splattershot Pro)

Note: This thread is open for discussion on counters against any weapon and subweapons/specials if you want.

 

[[EJ]_Locke]

Counters for blasters are easy. The end lag hits them hard. Swim around and then hit em. most blaster users are stupid anyways.

 

[Ikieri]

Hey let's play some Dynamo < Inkbrush < Shooter!

Ready set,

Spoiler: And...

Splat Bomb.

 

[Power]

Ahh, how could I overlook that, especially considering that they all do the same hop, shoot, ink routine.

 

[Setu]

Lmao it's crazy how underrated the dynamos and blasters are. I shred with them.

 

[Shroomsy]

The Dynamo user:
usually perches themselves on an area and sprays their ink over and over preventing anybody from entering the zone. If i get to close, its usually over and my weapon does not out range the dynamo. Any tips on counters against them?

Chargers. Alternatively, bombs since they're practically glued in place while flicking. Failing that just ambush them. Dynamo has so many solid counters it's silly.

 

[Setu]

I'd say that the only thing that can really "counter" anything is range.

 

[RtMbot]

Dynamo Rollers usually don't move around all that much; they'll typically just find a good place to sit and spray ink from there. If you're not using a Charger, the best thing to do is either try to figure out some way to flank them (since chances are you can't kill them from the front), or just throw bombs. If the bomb itself doesn't kill them, chase them while they're busy avoiding it and gun them down.

As for Blasters, do not engage if you have already been hit by one shot, since it only takes two to kill you and it is highly unlikely they will miss. Run away until your health regens, and then go back and try again. The problem is that the fight ultimately depends on the Blaster's ability to get a direct hit, so you never truly have an advantage over them, since they can just kill you instantly if they aim well. Otherwise they're pretty slow at killing someone who's at full health, so just engage then and hope they don't get a direct hit.

 

[Grafkarpador]

Dynamo Rollers usually don't move around all that much; they'll typically just find a good place to sit and spray ink from there.

You've not seen me play. I'm a damn hyperactive gorilla with that thing.

On topic: As a Dynamo player, I oftentimes find that gals and squelchers have the best shot at countering me if we're in an open confrontation, and sometimes Splattershot Pros if they luck out and their dispersing ink bullets happen to hit me from afar. Blasters too if they got their targeting down. Chargers oddly enough are not that problematic, I'm aware of their presence but a good Dynamo player can predict and pick apart a Charger before he even establishes himself in his vantage point. I'd see it more like a rivalry between chargers and dynamos (which oftentimes results in trades in my experience), not a straight counter, but they do pose a risk. Splat Rollers counter when they get up close and initiate their flick before me (with a large margin of error), but that's mostly easily circumvented by just spacing them out.

 

[flc]

Chargers oddly enough are not that problematic, I'm aware of their presence but a good Dynamo player can predict and pick apart a Charger before he even establishes himself in his vantage point.

you must have been playing against some awful chargers then lol

chargers absolutely destroy anything that jumps (due to jumping locking your movement for a whole second) or has slow/limited movement. dynamos are both.

also aggressive chargers don't use vantage points, they just abuse their range to kill you and then push up in the resulting hole in your team's defence. also, let's face it, on the maps where chargers actually have strong positions like saltspray, arowana, and kelp to a lesser degree (though very few chargers use the right vantage points there), dynamo is completely screwed.

Edit: to kill dynamos with something that can't outrange them, shoot them when they're just about to flick. obviously, from outside their cone of fire. if they're lagging, start shooting earlier; idea is, you need to be exploiting your own lag to make sure you don't exchange with them. if you do outrange them, secure your kiting route before engaging; make sure if you need to climb a wall, that wall is inked well enough that a few errant splats will not screw you over.

to kill blasters, aim where they're going to land from their jump spam and pop them from super close range. blasters have a minimum effective range whereby they can't reliably hit things; the only way you will get hit by a blaster at melee range is if they manage to turn and hit you. if they engage on you, you're generally already dead since the travel time on their shots is so long that their next shot will probably hit you before you've moved on their screen. ideally you'd either abuse the min range and rush them, or run out of their range if you're on the outside of their blast radius. also, hug walls. if a blaster misses you when you're retreating and hits a wall behind you instead, their shot will fizzle out and do no damage.

(this is part of why blasters are strong despite being bad on paper; countering them is counter-intuitive)

in general, anything that jumps should be ambushed when they land or tracked from long range so that their jumps mean less. if you have a oneshot weapon, aim where they're going to land (or somewhere on their trajectory) and pop them at your leisure.

 

[Grafkarpador]

you must have been playing against some awful chargers then lol

chargers absolutely destroy anything that jumps (due to jumping locking your movement for a whole second) or has slow/limited movement. dynamos are both.

And you must have been playing against some awful dynamos (of which there are to be fair quite a lot). The way most maps are set up, I can reach most chargers if I can secure myself a safe approach, which is easy since the Dynamo has a large range and a large area of effect, and a target that moves in ink is difficult to hit. Once I'm close enough the charger has exactly 1 second to aim at me and prevent my Flick while I am still moving sideways in mid-air. I've been playing in A lobbies for a while and trust me, I can counter a charger when I see one and a charger can counter me when he sees me, it's pretty balanced between the two weapons.

also, let's face it, on the maps where chargers actually have strong positions like saltspray, arowana, and kelp to a lesser degree (though very few chargers use the right vantage points there), dynamo is completely screwed.

What in the world are you talking about? Especially on those maps it's ridiculously easy to get rid of chargers because everything's crammed and reachable and exactly those maps are my jam. Chargers can still outplay me, but I can certainly outplay chargers.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

If you see a dyanmo on the ground, you can easily out maneuver them. Every time they try to fling ink in a close range 1v1, its a high risk, high reward. They swing, you swim at them, and then off to the side of them. They will die right after you do this.

 

[Rellek]

Let's talk about counters to a Splat Bomb that's been rolled under your feet.

 

[flc]

And you must have been playing against some awful dynamos (of which there are to be fair quite a lot). The way most maps are set up, I can reach most chargers if I can secure myself a safe approach, which is easy since the Dynamo has a large range and a large area of effect, and a target that moves in ink is difficult to hit. Once I'm close enough the charger has exactly 1 second to aim at me and prevent my Flick while I am still moving sideways in mid-air. I've been playing in A lobbies for a while and trust me, I can counter a charger when I see one and a charger can counter me when he sees me, it's pretty balanced between the two weapons.

What in the world are you talking about? Especially on those maps it's ridiculously easy to get rid of chargers because everything's crammed and reachable and exactly those maps are my jam. Chargers can still outplay me, but I can certainly outplay chargers.

A rank lobbies are trench now, especially when it comes to chargers, so that's not indicative of anything

also that's kind of the whole point: you can't get a safe approach against chargers because dynamos are slow and have a very long flick animation that can be taken full advantage of by a charger who isn't incompetent. if you're moving sideways in mid-air, your trajectory is set in stone for the duration of your jump. considering it usually takes me about a tenth of a second (6 frames by my count in my recordings) to flickshot someone who's using a weapon that doesn't paint a huge target on their back. if I get a chance to aim carefully at someone for any more than that, they're popped every time.

seriously. you are playing bad chargers. there's no excuse for missing jumping dynamos, which are literally the easiest targets a charger could possibly ask for.

plenty of things are still up for debate in this game; chargers countering dynamos is not one of these things.

 

[Kaliafornia]

also, let's face it, on the maps where chargers actually have strong positions like saltspray, arowana, and kelp to a lesser degree (though very few chargers use the right vantage points there), dynamo is completely screwed.

Where would you suggest the right vantage points there are?

 

[Grafkarpador]

A rank lobbies are trench now, especially when it comes to chargers, so that's not indicative of anything

also that's kind of the whole point: you can't get a safe approach against chargers because dynamos are slow and have a very long flick animation that can be taken full advantage of by a charger who isn't incompetent. if you're moving sideways in mid-air, your trajectory is set in stone for the duration of your jump. considering it usually takes me about a tenth of a second (6 frames by my count in my recordings) to flickshot someone who's using a weapon that doesn't paint a huge target on their back. if I get a chance to aim carefully at someone for any more than that, they're popped every time.

seriously. you are playing bad chargers. there's no excuse for missing jumping dynamos, which are literally the easiest targets a charger could possibly ask for.

plenty of things are still up for debate in this game; chargers countering dynamos is not one of these things.

Okay, so obviously every single charger I ever played even in A rank lobbies that were themselves A+ was terrible at the game, oh man what are the odds ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Of course if a dynamo player is dumb about it and just straight jumps at a charger fully frontal while making it clearly obvious he's trying a number in completely open terrain, he's going to get his brains blown out. No questions asked. Lived through it enough times. Splatoon doesn't exist in a vacuum though and bolting towards a charger who's first preoccupied with something else before they notice there's someone on the move will almost always result in them getting splatted because it will generally be too late for them. Using the terrain to your advantage, e.g. in terms of cover, also helps. The fact that the Dynamo creates a huge area of ink with a wide range means that one unnoticed flick is generally enough to create a large and outreaching approach path I can swim through, coupled with the fact that in a lot of instances the charger just shot somewhere else and needs to reload the weapon.

Also nitpicking a bit that has probably no bearing on your general argument because the difference it makes is rather small in scale, but listing your recorded reaction time is kind of misleading because that's only one aspect what goes through the process of seeing a target and hitting a target. a) the information arrives through internet latency of variable length from the enemy to your client, b) the charger needs to perceive through eyes and ears and the stimulus needs to be conducted to the central nervous system (eyes are generally slightly slower), c) they must cognize/recognize and evaluate the input in their CNS, d) coordinate a muscular reaction (best case scenario from muscle memory which would be slightly shorter than creating a new input program), e) conduct and execute the muscular reaction in the shape of button pressing from the antebrachial musculature inserting at the aponeuroses of the fingers and f) the performed input runs through the latency of the gamepad to the system (since the game handles deaths client side further latency is irrelevant). Your recording and frame count as I see it only covered aspect e) and f), unless you literally hooked yourself up with an EEG, EMG and ENG. In sum they would amount to more than 100ms anyway (but not to 1 second of course).

 

[flc]

Where would you suggest the right vantage points there are?

depends on how much caffeine is in your system

if you're twitching like a rabbit on crack cocaine, you can safely hold the first box on your opponent's walkway (the first one from mid, that is), which covers the mid drop-down and the opponents' left path. if you're a little less caffeinated, the closest box to your spawn on your own walkway is good for covering the opposite angle but you need to be very wary of what's going on in mid since you're further removed. and since dynamos are limited in where they can attack from, you can pretty easily pick them off from whatever angle they decide to take.

or if you're one of those weird people who do not measure your success with a charger as some function of the amount of coffee ingested prior, just base it on how confident you are in your aim and awareness.

alternatively if you aren't confident in your scope you can hold the mid dropdown or one of the corners, but that greatly limits your ability to block pushes or create picks

Okay, so obviously every single charger I ever played even in A rank lobbies that were themselves A+ was terrible at the game, oh man what are the odds ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Of course if a dynamo player is dumb about it and just straight jumps at a charger fully frontal while making it clearly obvious he's trying a number in completely open terrain, he's going to get his brains blown out. No questions asked. Lived through it enough times. Splatoon doesn't exist in a vacuum though and bolting towards a charger who's first preoccupied with something else before they notice there's someone on the move will almost always result in them getting splatted because it will generally be too late for them. Using the terrain to your advantage, e.g. in terms of cover, also helps. The fact that the Dynamo creates a huge area of ink with a wide range means that one unnoticed flick is generally enough to create a large and outreaching approach path I can swim through, coupled with the fact that in a lot of instances the charger just shot somewhere else and needs to reload the weapon.

Also, listing your recorded reaction time is kind of misleading because that's only one aspect what goes through the process of seeing a target and hitting a target. a) the information arrives through internet latency of variable length from the enemy to your client, b) the charger needs to perceive through eyes and ears and the stimulus needs to be conducted to the central nervous system (eyes are generally slightly slower), c) they must cognize/recognize and evaluate the input in their CNS, d) coordinate a muscular reaction (best case scenario from muscle memory which would be slightly shorter than creating a new input program), e) conduct and execute the muscular reaction in the shape of button pressing from the antebrachial musculature inserting at the aponeuroses of the fingers and f) the performed input runs through the latency of the gamepad to the system (since the game handles deaths client side further latency is irrelevant). Your recording and frame count as I see it only covered aspect e) and f), unless you literally hooked yourself up with an EEG, EMG and ENG. In sum they would amount to way more than 100ms anyway.

A+ is a trench with the exploit & net positive rating adjustment at 50% win rate (since A- and A lower the overall rating on a team, making rating changes for A- and A more likely to be +12 or -8) pushing people toward A+, and a large percentage of A+ players simply not playing the game anymore. if the lobbies I've been in lately are any indication, A+ is no longer any guarantee of skill, just of patience. so yes, the odds are good that you have not played against a good charger yet. considering that I'm not a good charger and I've met very few people who can outplay me with their own charger, yeah, I'd bet on it.

not sure why you think that chargers not existing in a vacuum means dynamos don't either. a dynamo flicking paint is one of the loudest and least subtle things in the entire game, and its animation is almost as long as an e-litre's 100 damage charge time. if you don't somehow draw attention to yourself from any number of angles--especially on those maps you claim to specialise in--and get up close to a charger, either they or their team (probably both) are doing something seriously wrong. the first thing I do after taking a shot is make sure my position is secure. a giant puddle of enemy ink appearing in my periphery is a pretty good indication that a dynamo is somewhere close by, meaning I need to do something about it. and, hey, if I'm screwed, there's always the superjump, which also takes less time than your swinging animation.

as alluded to at the top of this post, a good charger can and does lock down multiple areas, usually from some sort of vantage point that renders them immune to all but the longest-range weapons. dynamos do not belong to this category. perhaps a dynamo can get close if the charger misses (which, as previously stated, they shouldn't), but the charger should not be sitting around waiting for people to flank them. furthermore a scope only needs one second to charge (e-liter needs about a second and a half for a 100 damage shot), which is only slightly longer than the dynamo's point blank time to kill, and with a prepared shot, can kill the instant something enters its range.

even if your paragraph on reaction times were relevant (which we'll get to in a minute), jumping or really doing anything at all with a dynamo roller still gives me more than a second to react, aim, and shoot in the worst-case scenario.

I also did not mention reaction time. yes, reaction times are on average quite a lot slower than 100ms (last time I tested mine it was around 190ms but that was a few years ago), and that's kind of the point. predicting when and where stimuli will appear reduces the amount of time needed to react to them. if you know a pitcher is going to be throwing a curveball, you can start reacting to it before the ball has left their hand. in the same sense, if I know someone is likely to be coming around a corner at a given moment, or if I see someone jump, I can set up a shot well before I even know precisely where they are and drastically reduce my "reaction" time as a result (which is the entire reason peeking is so effective; see CS:GO AWP users).

EDIT: removed some of the snark in the last few paragraphs. sorted out in PM, much respect to @Grafkarpador for doing so

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

idk if it was included, but snipers with DMG up on will be able kill that dyno even faster. It makes the sniper get the one shot, one kill, with about half er so, of a full charge.

 

[Kaliafornia]

depends on how much caffeine is in your system

if you're twitching like a rabbit on crack cocaine, you can safely hold the first box on your opponent's walkway (the first one from mid, that is), which covers the mid drop-down and the opponents' left path. if you're a little less caffeinated, the closest box to your spawn on your own walkway is good for covering the opposite angle but you need to be very wary of what's going on in mid since you're further removed. and since dynamos are limited in where they can attack from, you can pretty easily pick them off from whatever angle they decide to take.

or if you're one of those weird people who do not measure your success with a charger as some function of the amount of coffee ingested prior, just base it on how confident you are in your aim and awareness.

alternatively if you aren't confident in your scope you can hold the mid dropdown or one of the corners, but that greatly limits your ability to block pushes or create picks

I usually stay on the box closest to the spawn on my walkway. However I like to move around so sometimes I will take the corner and be a bit more mobile to move in either direction, especially if the enemy has learned better than to take mid while I'm on the box.

Thanks for the tips. Haha I do find I'm on my best game after 2 red bulls.

 

[bluecrow]

The Dynamo user:
usually perches themselves on an area and sprays their ink over and over preventing anybody from entering the zone. If i get to close, its usually over and my weapon does not out range the dynamo. Any tips on counters against them?

just gonna self quote here

• If you can get in close (behind it, jump from above, just don't straight approach) it will die before it can swing. absolutely any weapon can do this, except chargers
• Each swing is about a second to do and there is no canceling it, so placing a splat bomb where they're swinging is a useful tool
• no really it is super immobile while trying to swing, even using a jump from a swim only gives them so much momentum
• any gun with a close to or higher range can shoot at it with little commitment. At the duel squelcher's max range is max range for the dynamo.
• the roller follows the standard damage curve the other rollers do (125 close, 25 max range) although the damage fall off is only noticeable near the edge
• it uses massive amounts of ink to swing (there is precisely 6 swings in it with out refilling and with a full tank), so putting a lot of pressure on a dynamo player's turf can result in you forcing them back

now what is really scary is a charger behind a dynamo
I had a match with 2 dynamos and 2 chargers, it was magical... for my team

these were general tips though

Let's talk about counters to a Splat Bomb that's been rolled under your feet.

get your butt out of there, use bubbler, use kraken
i mean it's pretty straight forward move or die
the only question is where you move to and what approach you take, which will always be situational