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Dev. of a Squidboards Weapon Tier List, Part 1: Calculations

How should scoped and unscoped charger variants be ranked? (Ex. Splat Charger and Splatterscope)


  • Total voters
    8
  • Poll closed .

Vitezen

Inkling Cadet
Joined
Oct 4, 2015
Messages
254
This thread is for the discussion of a weapon tier list based upon the results of tournaments posted on this site. The goal of this tier list is to create a way for players to easily understand what weapons they will need to understand and adapt to in order to compete at a high level.

Weapons will be ranked numerically according to calculations that will be discussed and finalized here. This is because I believe the easiest and most accurate way to discover the prevalence of a given weapon in the metagame is to look at statistics showing how often it appears and how successfully it competes with other weapons. For this thread's purposes, opinion-based or theoretical qualifications for a given weapon's place in the tier list will not be used. This is to avoid personal bias and errors. What we're discussing here is a system of placement that will output the ranking of each weapon for us, not the rankings themselves.

To start, I'll include my own proposed system below. Remember that this is only a proposal; the point of this thread is to finalize the system of placement for the weapons, so feel free to critique my own idea or offer and explain ideas of your own.

This calculation will include 2 numbers that will be used to compute the overall rank of a weapon: frequency of appearance and frequency of success.

Frequency of Appearance: How many times a team includes at least one of a given weapon.

EX: There are 32 rounds played over the course of one tournament. The total number of times that a team included at least one Bamboozler in their lineup is 4. The frequency of appearance for the Bamboozler is 4 / 64, or 0.0625. ( 32 matches x 2 teams per match = 64 )

Frequency of Success: How many times a team using the given weapon wins the round.

EX: Out of the 4 instances in which the Bamboozler appeared, the team including it won 3 times. The frequency of success for the Bamboozler is 3 / 4, or 0.75.

Now that we have frequencies for appearance and success, we can calculate the total value of the Bamboozler. To do this, we multiply the two scores together. This means that the Bamboozler's value is 0.0625 x 0.75, or 0.046875 out of a maximum of 1. We would then take this number and multiply it by 100 and round it out for a nice presentation, giving us a final total value of 4.69 out of a maximum of 100. However, actual calculations would take into account more than one tournament.

These calculations would be done for every weapon and its variant, the only exception being chargers with or without scopes. For example, there would be one category containing both the Splat Charger and Splatterscope, and a second category for the Kelp Splat Charger and Kelp Splatterscope.

I propose this method because it accounts for both how often players will be playing against the weapon, as well as how good the weapon itself is. If you're facing a certain weapon constantly in the metagame, regardless of its merit as a weapon, you will have to learn to counter it in order to win your games. The system also addresses the different ways a weapon is used. If a weapon is used often and wins just as often, you know it's definitely a threat and needs to be respected. If a weapon appears often but rarely wins, that means it may be difficult to use for many players, or that some other weapon in the meta is preying on a weakness it has; however, this still means you will need to be able to deal with it yourself. On the other hand, a weapon that appears rarely but wins often when it does is potentially a strong counterpick against certain strategies. Understanding why it's being used will be key to knowing how to beat it. Finally, weapons that appear rarely and also win rarely are likely bad or completely unfamiliar to the playerbase at present, and therefore aren't significant in an evaluation of the metagame until they see more play.

This system only tells us, through huge chunks of competitive player data, what ranking a weapon has. It doesn't tell us why it has that ranking. That's not for the ranking system to figure out. That's our job as intelligent, humanoid squidkids.

I plan to keep discussion in this thread open for about a week, after which we should be able to come to a consensus and move on to the next step of the process. For now, this thread only pertains to how we should calculate the ranking of each weapon. Remember to include your own suggestions and critique the methods of others.
 

Of Moose & Men

Inkling Fleet Admiral
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MuhFugginMoose
First off, thanks for stepping on my toes. Really respectful.

Second, the problem is, with trying to find some super 1337 calculation. You can't look at just tournaments to get a ranking system going. You have to look at weapons in general and if they're successful. If you use just tournaments as guidance you will NEVER get a "tier" for low ranked weapons that will never see use. You can't get Online ranked statistics so you're stuck with the same 8 or so weapons. If you want to create a tier list of about 10 weapons feel free. But that is why the thread I created is not exactly a "tier" list, as much as it is a viability ranking showing what weapons are viable and as the meta changes and progresses the viability ranking will as well. You can't really create a tier list especially if it's entirely based on tournament play. Because if it is, everyone already knows what is where.
 

Vitezen

Inkling Cadet
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Oct 4, 2015
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He said he doesn't intend to use my method, so I made my own. I don't understand what the problem is. Different strokes, I get that the threads have different purposes now. Try to keep the discussion on topic though, I want us to get through this so we can continue.
 

MakesDream

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ToastMiller
I like the proposal, the only thing I would change about it is that scoped variants should be in different places, there are advantages and disadvantages to both variants.
 

Giomaster

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Giomaster
I really like that method and i am looking forward to see the tier list complete, just one thing, for it to be also divided on modes and stages as well as in general would be pretty nice
if you want/need any help feel free to PM me and ill be pleased to help you on making the calculations
 
Last edited:

Vitezen

Inkling Cadet
Joined
Oct 4, 2015
Messages
254
I like the proposal, the only thing I would change about it is that scoped variants should be in different places, there are advantages and disadvantages to both variants.
I agree that scoped and unscoped are different, the question though is how different. What I'm afraid of is having a widely used weapon drop a rank on the list because it's split between scoped and unscoped. I don't think that would be an accurate representation of how often you should expect to see the weapon type. Compared to different subs and supers, scoped or unscoped is a much smaller difference, while the subs and supers can completely change how the weapon is played.

I really like that method and i am looking forward to see the tier list complete, just one thing, for it to be also divided on modes and stages as well as in general would be pretty nice
It's a similar problem for breaking it down on modes and stages. Essentially I would have to take my data and divide it by 36, or 48 if I count turf wars. The data sets would be way too small to make an accurate tier list. The only possible way would be to stretch the cutoff date further backwards, but then that would be accounting for a meta that isn't current anymore, which would still be inaccurate. Though this really depends on how many tournament results to which we have access, but I'm going to guess it wouldn't be enough to make separate tier lists for each category possible with this method.
 

MakesDream

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ToastMiller
have you talked to the TO's for messtival? its this saturday and they might be willing to help you collect data.
 

Giomaster

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Giomaster
have you talked to the TO's for messtival? its this saturday and they might be willing to help you collect data.
That is actually a very good idea, and maybe in the future the data would be much larger than now and that way we could divide it in different lists
 

Vitezen

Inkling Cadet
Joined
Oct 4, 2015
Messages
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I look forward to working with Messtival and other tournaments, but for now I'm not at the stage to collect data. There are still a few more variables in the creation of the tier list itself that need to be finalized. Besides, it seems that all I would have to do is watch the stream of the tournament. No other arrangements would be necessary.

For now I've added a poll to the thread about charger categories. The poll will close on November 10. After that we should be ready for step two and a new thread. After that this thread will still be up for discussion's sake, but changes won't be made until we at least try one finalized tier list.
 

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