How flexible is Splatoon's meta?

[MrMeatsauce]

One thing that appeals to me in Splatoon is that it seems that you can get away with using a majority of the weapons and still get decent results provided you have the skill to back it up. Some weapons are obviously better than others (even if it's purely situational), but there are other variables besides weapon matchups (positioning, team comp, map, etc.) that allow for different outcomes.

Is this because Nintendo is doing a good job with balancing the game? Or is this just because the game is new and nobody has discovered the gear/setups that will define the meta? I just don't want Splatoon's meta to become so inflexible it becomes annoying to play (I.E., League of Legends, Smash Bros Melee, etc.)

It's possible I'm just seriously misinformed and a clear meta has been established, but I haven't seen any evidence of that yet.

 

[MasterYoshidino]

It reminds me of how Mario Kart Wii played out in it's day. Typically inward drifting bikes were in maps and defined the meta but if a room was filled with karts then bikes would have problems trying to maintain their wheelies. It's sort of like that. Splatoon is one ink-hidden game of rock-paper-scissors which prevents any one weapon from always dominating but also is the cause of frustration because of said mechanic. You don't get what typically happens in first person shooters where rifles dominate everything because of instant kills from headshots and armor preventing handgun ammunition weapons from being viable.

 

[MrMeatsauce]

It reminds me of how Mario Kart Wii played out in it's day. Typically inward drifting bikes were in maps and defined the meta but if a room was filled with karts then bikes would have problems trying to maintain their wheelies. It's sort of like that. Splatoon is one ink-hidden game of rock-paper-scissors which prevents any one weapon from always dominating but also is the cause of frustration because of said mechanic. You don't get what typically happens in first person shooters where rifles dominate everything because of instant kills from headshots and armor preventing handgun ammunition weapons from being viable.

So do you think that's a good thing or a bad thing? I think that's better than having clearly OP weapons, but that doesn't mean the formula can't be refined.

 

[LMG]

I'd say it's because everything has some sort of drawback as well as some sort of advantage, as well as the fact that nintendo hasn't really changed the weapons to fit the current "meta", if you want to call it that. I remember another game where everyone said that one unit was very, Very bad, so no one used it. Then the company running the game buffed the unit to make people use it, but at the same time some guy found out how to use it properly and people learned from that person. Suddenly, the unit becomes too strong because everyone knows how to use it and it's now a lot stronger than intended

 

[GBstep]

First off, the game's just about 3 months in, so I don't think a clear meta is defined yet. Also, since for the first 2 months you couldn't really partner up with friends and form squads, you couldn't assign roles and weapons and just had to go with the luck of the draw.

What makes it trickier to figure out the meta is the game's unique mechanic "you're a kid now, you're a squid now". The feature adds a new dimension of game play that players are still figuring out. It's also a big factor that makes defining top tier weapons all the more difficult. Take the Rollers for example. If you didn't have the movement mechanic of turning into a squid, they'd be nothing more than gimmicks since you'll be shot down by longer range weapons before reaching an enemy. Thanks to the squid mechanic however, Rollers are able to take advantage of its mobility and stealth to make safe approaches and ambushes. At this stage in the game's lifespan, I think mastering movement as a squid and inking proper/optimal areas is much more important than figuring out how to use a weapon. Add map variety, clothing stats and game modes, and you'll find there's still a whole lot more we have yet to explore in this game.

For the longevity of the game, I think a flexible meta is very beneficial. It's what keeps the game fresh. If there was a clear top tier or overly-good weapon, then the game gets boring fast. So far thankfully, that hasn't been the case. The real drawback of having too flexible a meta is that it may be perceived as being too casual to be taken seriously.

The meta will only start taking shape once serious tournaments start, which is why I'm really interested to see how the Splatoon Koshien is gonna play out over at Japan. It's only when something's on the line that players start breaking down the game piece by piece, which excites and worries me at the same time. On one hand, it's great that the game is getting competitive attention despite being very new and different. On the other hand, if an overpowering strategy surfaces during the competition, then eventually games would devolve to teams applying that same strategy over and over again, with diversity only being dictated by map and game modes.

 

[picopepin]

At this stage in the game's lifespan, I think mastering movement as a squid and inking proper/optimal areas is much more important than figuring out how to use a weapon. Add map variety, clothing stats and game modes, and you'll find there's still a whole lot more we have yet to explore in this game.

Such truth! I mean its hard for me to defend just because i am so super exclusive to tentatek... HOWEVER i think tentatek in specific is one of those guns where its the maneuverability you have to get right in order to be useful with it.

For example Flounder Heights is my favorite map now because of the falling and shooting mechanic which i could technically pull off with any gun since the motions involved in getting my squid from one place to the next, firing, then retreating successfully are unrelated to the gun in my hand.

 

[Flying_Tortoise]

@GBstep definitely said a lot of it.
It's still really early in Splatoon's lifespan, but atm I see a lot of flexibility in splatoon. Not A LOT when it comes to solo queue, because there are weapons that are better at carrying at certain game modes BUT when you start doing squad battles it actually hurts to not have diversity in your squad. Some may disagree but when you are facing a very strategic squad that has roles for each of their members whom take advantage of their different weapons it is very difficult to overcome. This I learned a lot when facing SS-S in the Ink or Sink tournament. We had 3 Tteks on a team because we were missing a member and thought it would be fine as they were our mains and are considered one of the best weapons. Learning from that mistake we all started learning new weapons that would allow ourselves more diversity and make a better equipped squad.Do I think their team comp was the best one? No I think it was smart and balanced but could definitely be beaten by another team composition with smart play.

TL: DR there is a lot of flexibility in this game, but you still have to be smart about team composition. You can't just have 4 Tteks and expect to win. You have to think okay I need some close range ppl and some long range ppl, can I afford more of one than the other? What is the other squad going to use and what would best counter that? So the meta may revolve around a general strategy like that but I don't think there will be that one team comp that is going to be broken and remove the flexibilty.

 

[GBstep]

Such truth! I mean its hard for me to defend just because i am so super exclusive to tentatek... HOWEVER i think tentatek in specific is one of those guns where its the maneuverability you have to get right in order to be useful with it.

For example Flounder Heights is my favorite map now because of the falling and shooting mechanic which i could technically pull off with any gun since the motions involved in getting my squid from one place to the next, firing, then retreating successfully are unrelated to the gun in my hand.

Agreed. The Splattershots are generally well rounded weapons, which is why I believe they're a good choice for starting out. They're easy to pick up and you'll find yourselves concentrating more on proper movement and inking around the battlefield than learning how to work your weapon properly. It was only after I got competent results with the Splattershot that I decided to move on to the other weapons like rollers and brushes.

 

[TheMH]

People make the mistake and compare the meta of ranked battles in solo queue with the "real" meta of coordinated battles in teams of 4. Weapons like Tentatek and .96 Deco shine in solo queue due to their versatility, but a team composed of only these two weapons will be hard-countered by the first charger or even Squelchers. Same goes the other way around for a team of chargers only. This viability of almost all weapons makes Splatoon as great as it is in my opinion. And we have a long way to go to determine which weapon sets will do best.

The comparison with rock-paper-scissors hits the nail on the head in my opinion. It's just rather a "tentatek-.96 gal-e-liter" ;)

 

[WydrA]

Such truth! I mean its hard for me to defend just because i am so super exclusive to tentatek... HOWEVER i think tentatek in specific is one of those guns where its the maneuverability you have to get right in order to be useful with it.

For example Flounder Heights is my favorite map now because of the falling and shooting mechanic which i could technically pull off with any gun since the motions involved in getting my squid from one place to the next, firing, then retreating successfully are unrelated to the gun in my hand.

I think this is true of the "splattershot" weapons in general, especially the jr. Jr .takes 4 hits (without strength upgrades etc.) to kill someone, doesn't have great range and isn't all that accurate either. The only thing you have is the decently quick firing rate (not even the fastest) which allows for great maneuverability. Very frustrating a lot of the time, but very rewarding when you get it right.

As for the meta, I'm in agreement that it's very flexible. Nintendo's dev team has done a good job making things pretty balanced without over buffing/nerfing.
I would point out that there is always a meta and a young meta isn't all that different from an older one, but that;s just semantics...

 

[Flying_Tortoise]

What I really love is that you can't mix and match subs and specials, which I think really helped the developers balance out the weapon sets and allows more weapons more viable because a great gun can be brought down with a so-so special or sub weapon.

 

[CoconutTank]

What I really love is that you can't mix and match subs and specials, which I think really helped the developers balance out the weapon sets and allows more weapons more viable because a great gun can be brought down with a so-so special or sub weapon.

While it is true that players can't potentially create a monstrously efficient loadout by choice, I don't like the idea of some specials or subs being duds. There isn't any particular special that I can out here, but generally I find it hard to spend ink on Ink Mines or Point Sensors.

As for the subject in question, the good news imo is that the modes and maps are varied enough to make a majority of the weapons in the game usable in some combination. As long as all modes and maps get used, players will have to diversify.

 

[ILikeKirbys]

What I really love is that you can't mix and match subs and specials, which I think really helped the developers balance out the weapon sets and allows more weapons more viable because a great gun can be brought down with a so-so special or sub weapon.

That's... not the intention, I don't think. The different loadouts don't nerf weapons, just promote a different playstyle by having different strengths and weaknesses (or compensating for a weapon's weaknesses vs. enhancing its strengths, but I don't remember any good examples of that at the moment).
For one example, the Aerospray MG has Seeker/Inkzooka, a loadout that can be used for mobility (mostly Seekers, admittedly, but Inkzooka leaves a pretty long trail as well) and offense (since Seekers are a 1-shot splat if they hit, and Inkzooka is also a 1-shot, and both have very long range), promoting a more offensive playstyle, while the Aerospray RG comes with Ink Mine/Inkstrike, which is decidedly less mobile and promotes a more defensive style (dropping Mines on areas the enemy wants to go (or the Tower) to delay or splat them, and dropping Inkstrikes on entrenched enemies). For another example, the Blaster comes with Disruptors, allowing you to slow enemies for easier blasting, and Killer Wails for long-range harassment, while the Custom Blaster comes with Point Sensors, which can expose enemies to your team from farther than you can shoot, and Bubbler, which lets you safely engage at blasting range against any weapon. The origial loadout is more suited to ambushing and defense, by throwing Disruptors to make easier kill-shots on ambushes and Killer Wailing on ranged enemies; the Custom, by contrast, has no means of combat outside of its blasting range, only letting it expose farther-out enemies to teammates, but in exchange it is a better support weapon, since Point Sensors let the rest of the team deal with enemies and Bubbler can be passed to teammates in addition to making you invincible for its duration,
In both cases, you still have the same base weapon, but the loadout changes how you should use it.
At least, that's how I see it.

EDIT: Not sure I got any of the specific stuff right, but I think the base point might still stand. Am I right?

 

[Flying_Tortoise]

That's... not the intention, I don't think. The different loadouts don't nerf weapons, just promote a different playstyle by having different strengths and weaknesses (or compensating for a weapon's weaknesses vs. enhancing its strengths, but I don't remember any good examples of that at the moment).
For one example, the Aerospray MG has Seeker/Inkzooka, a loadout that can be used for mobility (mostly Seekers, admittedly, but Inkzooka leaves a pretty long trail as well) and offense (since Seekers are a 1-shot splat if they hit, and Inkzooka is also a 1-shot, and both have very long range), promoting a more offensive playstyle, while the Aerospray RG comes with Ink Mine/Inkstrike, which is decidedly less mobile and promotes a more defensive style (dropping Mines on areas the enemy wants to go (or the Tower) to delay or splat them, and dropping Inkstrikes on entrenched enemies). For another example, the Blaster comes with Disruptors, allowing you to slow enemies for easier blasting, and Killer Wails for long-range harassment, while the Custom Blaster comes with Point Sensors, which can expose enemies to your team from farther than you can shoot, and Bubbler, which lets you safely engage at blasting range against any weapon. The origial loadout is more suited to ambushing and defense, by throwing Disruptors to make easier kill-shots on ambushes and Killer Wailing on ranged enemies; the Custom, by contrast, has no means of combat outside of its blasting range, only letting it expose farther-out enemies to teammates, but in exchange it is a better support weapon, since Point Sensors let the rest of the team deal with enemies and Bubbler can be passed to teammates in addition to making you invincible for its duration,
In both cases, you still have the same base weapon, but the loadout changes how you should use it.
At least, that's how I see it.

EDIT: Not sure I got any of the specific stuff right, but I think the base point might still stand. Am I right?

yah I see your point. Definitely offers different ways to play. But it's a mixture of both. you have deco's in order to allow for different styles of gameplay but subs and specials are there to compliment the gun by improving it or making it less amazing. Random example, a splattershot jr. would have a hard time if it had ink mine or beacon because as a shorter range weapon you would prefer something to use when facing an opponent with long range and also echlocator on it would be fine but a long range weapon would probably be prefered or the bubble which allows it to have a panic button for when he has been outranged. I suppose its just that I still feel some subs and specials are better than others.

idk sorry if I ain't makin sense, pretty tired atm.
but the different styles of play are definitely what make the game fun. a lot of stuff are viable. so to reiterate the topic. it's flexible lol

 

[CoconutTank]

@ILikeKirbys: I can see the logic you're going for there. The regular Jet Squelcher is more tuned for fighting enemies in entrenched positions by using Splash Walls to block off an angle of attack and Inkstrike to flush them out if necessary. The Custom Jet Squelcher is amazing at fighting from melee range all the way to the very tip of its attack range, due to its responsiveness with Burst Bombs and Kraken. I use the Custom Jet Squelcher more, but I'm starting to think I need to use the normal one if the enemy team has a strong Charger or Splatling user.

But like @Flying_Tortoise says, some loadouts may have problems being viable. A loadout with a close range main weapon and no ranged sub or special may have a lot of difficulty getting anything done. The Inkbrush Noveau is currently facing that sort of problem, though potentially someone may find a way to make it super exciting to use. The Jr. + Mine example that was given is pretty close to where the Aerospray RG is, and it would be much easier to bully if it had Echolocator instead of Inkstrike.

Speaking of which, what exactly is the Custom Splattershot Jr's playstyle? It seems to be very much a support only weapon, as it has to rely on the main weapon in order to ink and deal damage. It probably doesn't have trouble charging up Echolocator, but it doesn't get to rely on Bubbler when engaging enemies and Disruptors don't threaten space like Splat Bombs do.

 

[ILikeKirbys]

yah I see your point. Definitely offers different ways to play. But it's a mixture of both. you have deco's in order to allow for different styles of gameplay but subs and specials are there to compliment the gun by improving it or making it less amazing. Random example, a splattershot jr. would have a hard time if it had ink mine or beacon because as a shorter range weapon you would prefer something to use when facing an opponent with long range and also echlocator on it would be fine but a long range weapon would probably be prefered or the bubble which allows it to have a panic button for when he has been outranged. I suppose its just that I still feel some subs and specials are better than others.

idk sorry if I ain't makin sense, pretty tired atm.
but the different styles of play are definitely what make the game fun. a lot of stuff are viable. so to reiterate the topic. it's flexible lol

Don't worry, you're making sense, at least to me.
And yeah, some subs and specials are just better than others, though some of that is just dependent on which weapon it gets stuck on (as an example, Disruptor is much better on a Blaster with its one-shots than it is on the short-ranged Splattershot Jr.).

@ILikeKirbys: I can see the logic you're going for there. The regular Jet Squelcher is more tuned for fighting enemies in entrenched positions by using Splash Walls to block off an angle of attack and Inkstrike to flush them out if necessary. The Custom Jet Squelcher is amazing at fighting from melee range all the way to the very tip of its attack range, due to its responsiveness with Burst Bombs and Kraken. I use the Custom Jet Squelcher more, but I'm starting to think I need to use the normal one if the enemy team has a strong Charger or Splatling user.

But like @Flying_Tortoise says, some loadouts may have problems being viable. A loadout with a close range main weapon and no ranged sub or special may have a lot of difficulty getting anything done. The Inkbrush Noveau is currently facing that sort of problem, though potentially someone may find a way to make it super exciting to use. The Jr. + Mine example that was given is pretty close to where the Aerospray RG is, and it would be much easier to bully if it had Echolocator instead of Inkstrike.

Yeah, not all loadouts are good (not the same thing as some-are-better-than-others, at least to me; some loadouts just aren't good, or at least aren't suited to the weapon they're on). Your Inkbrush Nouveau example is pretty much my thoughts on it; it's usable, I'm sure it's okayish in Tower Control or something, but it really doesn't seem good.

Speaking of which, what exactly is the Custom Splattershot Jr's playstyle? It seems to be very much a support only weapon, as it has to rely on the main weapon in order to ink and deal damage. It probably doesn't have trouble charging up Echolocator, but it doesn't get to rely on Bubbler when engaging enemies and Disruptors don't threaten space like Splat Bombs do.

Its playstyle is pretty much what you just said, and that's one of those not-good-loadouts that can sabotage a weapon like you were talking about. Disruptor/Echolocator would do better on a weapon that has more range, like a Splattershot Pro or a Dual Squelcher or something, but the Jr. isn't able to really take advantage of Disruptors because at the range they'd be used at, you'd be outranged or at the edge of your range where you won't get all hits with your rapid-fire (so you might get splatted anyway; any closer than that and you might as well just hold ZR and point-blank them). It can charge Echolocator pretty quickly, and Disruptors can be used to annoy enemies and let your team more easily pick 'em off, but overall it's not a weapon that can get into a fight and win, so you're stuck on support. Which would be good, but you can get quick Echolocators out of a Dynamo Roller (Sprinkler/Echolocator) alongside stronger attacks and more range, and you can get more mileage out of Disruptors with the L3 Nozzlenose or Blaster (L3 Nozzlenose has more range han the Jr. and Blaster, I think, and a faster fire rate if you mash ZR, while Blaster has more range and is a 1-shot with good aim, which Disruptors help with by slowing foes). It doesn't really have anything going for it that it isn't outclassed in, which isn't good. Kind of like how I think of the Inkbrush Nouveau, really.
At least, that's how I feel.

 

[GBstep]

I try to avoid calling any of the load outs right now bad or not viable. It holds you back from trying to find out how to use it properly. Like what has been said, the game is still way too early in its lifespan to make any judgments about weapons, and we have yet to actually see big competitive matches to make a proper call. Just have fun first trying out everything. If you find that what you were doing with a weapon isn't working with a particular load out compared to another (i.e. splattershot jr. vs. custom jr.), then try making adjustments or look for other ways to play them.

 

[jason1637]

Due to factors like balanced subs/specials and gear the meta is balanced and i dont see that changing til the next huge update.

 

[Helio]

Rock-paper-scissors. Hopefully forever.

Right now I think it is wide open. Even in short range combat there are a lot of good options,like Krak-on roller, Luna blaster, splattershots. I've even seen subweapon build outs and special rush build outs do great in turf wars.

I hope we never see one build out dominate and hope that a diverse team will always have an advantage.

I cringe in turf wars or ranked when my team is all one weapon.