I was in S rank once... (how to deal with severe losing streak?)

[jazuren]

Hi guys! I kinda just lurk here so I haven't made a post in forever. I wanted to know how you guys ever deal with losing streaks? Could really use some pointers

I'm dealing with the worst ever losing streak right now. Last Friday I was S rank 63 and I was pretty steady in that rank for the last two months. But recently, over the last weekend, I suddenly suffered a horrible losing streak. I've gone down not one, not two, but THREE ranks. Yeah. I'm A- now. It hurt really bad...let's just say the salt shaker is basically empty now. lol

I dunno what happened, I was doing fine last but then suddenly I started losing about 85% of the battles I was in. I didn't feel like I was playing any differently or anything and my teams were never bad or anything, I just always happened to be on the side that lost. They're always really close fun games but my team just unfortunately loses. And I was like "you know, it happens. at least it was a GG" but you can only say that so many times before you're literally at the S border line. After I got out of S it's been a nightmare getting back and staying there. I went between A+ and S about three times before I finally got stuck in A+ bracket. This time, the teams I was on were pretty random. Sometimes they'd be really good and others kind of average. But still, it wasn't enough and eventually I went lower and lower. Then I went to A...the horror. I'm so sorry for A's it's like purgatory. I remember when I first climbed out of there, it was so tough. There's good players but they don't really have the stage awareness yet. So there's a lot of mistakes happening here, or people being too safe and not wanting to leave a safe spot they have. That's the thing that usually costs us the game. It keeps happening, even when I go out for them and take out the other team, they won't cover the Splat Zone or get on the Tower. And when I get on the Tower or cover the Splat Zones, or take the Rainmaker, they won't fight. Or .bless the souls who do fight and but just haven't perfected their weapons yet.

I feel like in A the only way to get out is to do everything. Like the only way to be an S is to be so good at the game that teammates are just accessories. But that's not right, when I was in S rooms, or even A+ rooms, the people there have so much synergy, it's beautiful. (Heck, earlier today I was in a 3 v 4 for tower control with, We had a membered kicked at the very start and only me (.52 gal) and two chargers. Against a full team with some great players and we almost won so I was really happy with that). But A rank and below is just chaotic to me. Which brings me to recently, my newest low. A- rank. It has some good kids, but I can tell some of them just managed to crawl out of B+...which is awesome! But then they all huddle like bees around things and get splatted at once. And that's fun for me to do to the other team, I get even more kills now, but...when 3/4 people get splatted, I'm still just one squid.

I didn't think it would be this bad. I've dropped rank before but never like this. I'm pretty sure there's something wrong with how I'm playing, it must be...I hadn't played Splatoon in a few weeks so maybe I'm out of practice? But how could I have been playing just great (like thinking I was going to make it to S+ soon, great) to playing this poorly in only one weekend? I know what you're thinking, I should just take a break. But I love Splatoon, that's what I do FOR my breaks. Then I should take a break from ranked? But I love ranked, it has some of my favorite game modes. I don't want to stop playing...but now I'd afraid I'll go down even more. Maybe I'll just make a new account, start over clean and fresh. I'm going to miss those S rooms though...

tl;dr

I dropped several ranks and I'm kinda bummed about it. What do you suggest doing to make me feel better about a losing streak? Have you ever had one?

 

[cleosplatra]

Losing streaks happen to even the best of players, I doubt there's anyone on here that's never had one. I dropped out of S once during a horrid losing streak, I was at around S60. Luckily, it only took me a few matches to make my way back into S. Admittedly, yours seems pretty damn extreme, no wonder you feel bummed out :( Seeing as your streak has taken you down all the way to A-, it's probably due to how you're playing. For me, ranked is about adapting to your teammates, doing the roles they aren't doing. For example, most people seemed to only care about their kills, but if everyone is just splatting the squids, what's the point if no-one is on the tower/carrying the RM?

If I feel a losing streak coming on, I wait for the next rotation, it makes me feel a little refreshed.

 

[jazuren]

Losing streaks happen to even the best of players, I doubt there's anyone on here that's never had one. I dropped out of S once during a horrid losing streak, I was at around S60. Luckily, it only took me a few matches to make my way back into S. Admittedly, yours seems pretty damn extreme, no wonder you feel bummed out :( Seeing as your streak has taken you down all the way to A-, it's probably due to how you're playing. For me, ranked is about adapting to your teammates, doing the roles they aren't doing. For example, most people seemed to only care about their kills, but if everyone is just splatting the squids, what's the point if no-one is on the tower/carrying the RM?

If I feel a losing streak coming on, I wait for the next rotation, it makes me feel a little refreshed.

Yeah, I think over time I was letting it get to me so I stopped playing my best. I've also probably play a few too many hours. For sure ever since I feel down to A I've been way too reckless. I know I need to be prepared to do any job at any moment but goodness is it tough. lol But I guess that's ranked so it makes sense.

 

[Award]

I find it highly fascinating (given previous posts and discussions where we've debated whether there's merit to a systematic losing streak where it seems designed for you to lose, versus just random luck) that recently we now have 3 different threads specifically asking how people deal with losing streaks. More and more it's confirming for me: The losing streaks are indeed systematic. Whether by design or error, we're being forced to lose.

I also find it interesting you'd post this today specifically. My experience over the past several days is IDENTICAL to yours in almost every way. I used to avoid rainmaker - too easy to lose. But I recently decided to throw my rank away, stop caring, play rainmaker, play different weapons, and let myself lose. I crashed to B 6. I wasn't salty. I expected it. I knew I'd be doing badly for a while particularly when RM was up (and other modes since I'm introducing more weapons.) Over the weekend I was picking myself back up fairly steadily up to A 75. RM came back on at the end of Saturday and I played a few rounds, went down to A 43, and figured I'd call it a night, Picked back up on Sunday, back to A 76, figured I'd make it to A+ quickly - Zones was on. My specialty.

No, The losses started, and I'd go up and down hovering in the mid A's, then down to A 6, then back to the mid A's. But something was different, the sheer number of losses was feeling wrong, not because I played bad and lost, but because the losses were overwhelming where the other team clearly outskilled my team every time. My teams started playing like noobs while the other team did not. Up to this point, I wasn't too salty...I figured it's just a bad day.

So yesterday I picked it up, and the losing streak doubled down. Zones was up first: oh good, my specialty, back to A+ easy. No, nearly every single round was a loss. I was playing hydra, holding the zone as I usually do with hydra, but the enemy endlessly swarmed the zones and splatted the rest of my team over and over. And my team had a habit of dying on the zone, and being unable to take it back once it was captured. In tons of different lobbies. Every round was the same. As long as I don't get splatted I can keep the zone in contention. Once I get taken out, it all falls apart. And once the rest of my team is out, it's all too easy for me to get flanked unless I leave the zone (taking it out of contention.) Other rounds, just like you said, they were "close" games, or at least intense if not close in score. We blocked knockouts most of the time, but happened to lose most of the time. Our team just never got the tower or zone as long/far as the other. And like you said, saying "it was a good game" only works for a while. And, like you, so many rounds where, I had custom eliter - and I was the only one pushing the tower! I mean, I expect and anticipate giving the tower a good push with my kraken, waiting for a good time to use it when I can get the tower going...but I had to keep wasting it to get the enemy OFF the tower instead, and/or would ride the tower without a kraken because that's the only way the tower was going to move. I was fighting not to win but to prevent knockouts in most battles.

My figure was about the same as yours...you say 85% and I'd say that's about right. I posted in the salt thread about it too,

@SupaTim mentioned a particularly rough night in solo queue last night as well, and I was talking to someone (not a very good player particularly) playing TW last night that also had a miserable time with freakishly brutal matches. Someone who plays TW daily...it's NEVER that bad. Something was very, very off about the game yesterday, or the past two days. Something about the matchmaking is even worse than usual. Or whatever happened to the servers on Friday night has them completely FUBAR on how to build a lobby or something. The losing streak thing is something many of us have discussed before as systematic. Since so many of us were seeing almost identical conditions at the same time, I'm more convinced than ever it's systematic. But this time it's even worse than normal.

FWIW, while Tim still wanted to blame his playing, in your case, you said you didn't feel you were playing badly. In my case, I know I wasn't. I played 2p squads for a while, and we won more than we lost, nearly my only wins of the night, and I was very pleased with my performance regardless. Did I make mistakes? Sure, but they weren't the most costly ones in the game. In solo even the horrible rounds my own k/d were some of my best yet on TC with eliter, though some of that was because the tower was always incoming, never outgoing, so I had lots of opportunities to snipe them off. I played very well yesterday. Showing strong improvements on my new weapons (new for ranked, practiced eliter & hydra for over a month in TW before taking it ranked.) But winning LESS than at higher ranks.

I was getting salty about it last night simply because I was SO close to getting back up, and it was going so well, and then I felt so robbed of it. I doubt it's your playing, I doubt it's that you need a break, and we seem to have experienced the same troubles at the same time.

BUT that's amid the backdrop that I already committed to not care about my rank, just play it like i'd play TW, and let myself rank wherever it puts me. I've already accepted for a variety of reasons that a few of use have written text walls about that the ranked system in this game is flat out broken. We still debate whether or not it's rigged (my own theory is, yes, it's rigged, as a way of load balancing the player volume across the lobbies) meaning losing streaks are not always your own but the system decides "oh, hey, I need 100 more players in A+, so we'll make some imbalanced matches in S/S+ to pull some back down (which then pushes people down from A+, etc." Some probably think I'm crazy, but it seems to rigidly patterned in it's imbalanced team making.

So all I can offer, despite my own saltiness from yesterday, is ignore the letter, just play. Yeah, the lobbies tend to suck in A- (Oddly, I"ve found in the past few days that the B+ players often are BETTER players than the A-/A players. The B+ stacked teams seem to win more rounds than the A-/A/A+ teams.) So if you can't climb to S, embrace the drop to B+, things get better either way :p I'm going to bet I'm heading there myself today.

(Tagging @jsilva since our rants on this topic are becoming the stuff of legend on this board I think ;) )

Losing streaks happen to even the best of players, I doubt there's anyone on here that's never had one. I dropped out of S once during a horrid losing streak, I was at around S60. Luckily, it only took me a few matches to make my way back into S. Admittedly, yours seems pretty damn extreme, no wonder you feel bummed out :( Seeing as your streak has taken you down all the way to A-, it's probably due to how you're playing. For me, ranked is about adapting to your teammates, doing the roles they aren't doing. For example, most people seemed to only care about their kills, but if everyone is just splatting the squids, what's the point if no-one is on the tower/carrying the RM?

If I feel a losing streak coming on, I wait for the next rotation, it makes me feel a little refreshed.

If @jazuren saw what I saw, she's probably not playing badly, and there was probably little way to adapt to the team. Some of them DO try, some play well, but in a 1v1 fight, they're going to get splatted first, or they'll run into a 1v3 and get splatted. Heck, I'll do that too, but I'm usually doing it with purpose (a risky gambit to keep tower momentum, or get the enemy off it, etc...I know I'll get splatted, and it might be worth it.) Or just a careless mistake. But these guys just aren't great at controlling a battle. Those are the rounds that won't be a knockout but you have little chance to win. The ones that are knockouts are like the round I saw one of my team, from the start of the match, all the way inside the enemy base. Whether he was playing hero ninja or not, the rest of the enemy team was at the zone....the rest of our team was at the zone....that player took himself out of the game. Teams where they just can not get the zone back for 40+ seconds once the enemy has it unless I join in - but if I'm flushing a flank, I can't just ignore it and get stabbed in the back. It's a mix of players that really try but aren't as good as their opponents at splatting, and players that really don't understand how to control the map.

None of that is something I mind. But the now infamous losing streaks seem to be when the machine consistently pairs you WITH the above, and against players who are always better. But yesterday....even TW players saw something similar. It was weird. If this were an RPG, I'd call it a bad difficulty spike after such-and-such boss. Part of me wonders if the server failure on Friday involved a loss of player metrics so it doesn't actually know how to make matches anymore.

 

[SupaTim]

While I don't doubt that some of it was matchmaking last night, the games I lost while dual squading were games that I had a terrible showing. I suppose one could argue that boils down to matchmaking as well, since some dual squads are just better than others and tip the scales pretty far. Nevertheless, I felt I could have helped a bit more in some matches. Also, the games @jsilva and I won were games that we were either just better than the other team, or at least ONE of us could make up for a bad game from the other. In some lobbies we were both bested by the opposing team and those were the games we lost. I felt that the other dual squad on our team rarely contributed a great deal to the game (not to say they were zombies, but I don't think they ever carried us).

Typically, when I start playing badly it is precipitated by something weird that happens in the game. Like my burst bomb going through someone, instead of into them. Or two direct burst bombs not splatting someone. Or pumping people with 3+ more shots than it takes to splat and getting a trade at best. Some of these may be my lack of playskill (and therefore a perceived unfairness) but certainly some are due to shortcomings in the game or latency. When the game doesn't let me play fairly it frustrates me to no end and I go on tilt and start playing poorly. Of course, this is (at least partly) a personal problem and I intend to work on it, but, the problem inherent with the game remains.

Another frustration is the point system. TWELVE points for losing and SIX for winning in an "A" lobby seems ludicrous.

 

[BlackZero]

I've explained this many times, and will probably explain it many more. How do you deal with losing streaks? Limit them. If you're clearly not playing well, why do you keep playing until you've lost three ranks? If I lose 3-5 times in a row, I accept that I'm not in the zone and I find something else to do. That's how you deal with losing streaks. You simply put the game down and walk away for a few hours or a day.

The losing streaks are indeed systematic. Whether by design or error, we're being forced to lose.

None of that is something I mind. But the now infamous losing streaks seem to be when the machine consistently pairs you WITH the above, and against players who are always better.

Why is it that when people lose, it's always because of bad teammates and unbeatable opponents, yet when people win, it's always thanks to them and their flawless play? The other team isn't necessarily more skilled or better coordinated, but some people are convinced this is the case every time they lose. Sure, people will say they make mistakes and aren't perfect, but look at these boards. How many posts are there where people rant about bad teammates and how they played the best they possible could but lost to impossible odds? Now count the posts where people said "thank god the other team were lagging like crazy and had the worst teammates of all time or we'd have never one that match." When people win, it's because of their mad skillz. When they lose, it's because they had to carry a worthless team while they fought hard and masterfully against a team of vastly superior players who were in perfect sync with each other.

I think it would be very interesting if two people were somehow able to record themselves playing for two different random teams in the same match.

 

[Award]

New I've explained this many times, and will probably explain it many more. How do you deal with losing streaks? Limit them. If you're clearly not playing well, why do you keep playing until you've lost three ranks? If I lose 3-5 times in a row, I accept that I'm not in the zone and I find something else to do. That's how you deal with losing streaks. You simply put the game down and walk away for a few hours or a day.

Your input in figuring out some of the backdrop for how the system calculates was excellent and spot on, however we're going to have to agree to disagree when it comes to the "you're just not playing well enough" rhetoric. Something else goes on in this game, and the sustained nature of it is anything but random. It may just be a bug, but it's not random.

Your advice of limiting losses doesn't apply to people who DO put the game down for a while. Or for a day. Or play several sessions throughout the day on different modes/maps. When the pattern resumes, something is wrong. I know you have your explanation for how it's not the system, and that's fine, but a few of us have already disagreed with your theories and pointed out that your advice has been contradicted by results that do not match your hypotheses. I understand what you're trying to say, and there are absolutely cases that applies, but you're not looking at the more concentrated results where those theories definitely don't apply. And you mitigate when a player knows they're playing well or even better than usual, but losing more than rounds when they know they were under-performing.

Why is it that when people lose, it's always because of bad teammates and unbeatable opponents, yet when people win, it's always thanks to them and their flawless play

Not at all. I've said many times the team that wins is the team that EVERYONE plays decently. Every time. Most of the time I see the player with the super flawless play end up on the losing team. Sometimes that's me, sometimes that's not me. It's not me more times than it's not. I aim for consistency more than super skillz play. More times than not the "super player" will lose. The modest but entirely successful team wins.

Which comes back to your own theories on how it makes matches and could pair one super player with 4 mediocre players and the other team 4 average players which ends up better. Which is very likely. And would be very consistent with what is seen. But that still doesn't factor in why it sometimes does so consistently, lobby after lobby, for a given player. Be it bug, oversight, or conspiracy, that's systematic. Say it's not all you want to. Blame the players if you must.

But just via watching results for many matches in ranked and TW, the conclusion I have is the same: The super player does not make the team win, but awful team mates do make the team lose. I never once attribute a win to my "elite skills", but rather a team that consistently performed at average without anyone majorly dropping the ball, or to an enemy team that was so terrible they didn't even notice the tower going by them.

That's one of the reasons I believe the B+ matches are superior to anything in the A's. The B+'s might not be the best shooters, but they've learned the game fairly well and are usually working toward the goal. In the A's theres too many players trying to emulate what they've seen S's and S+'s do and become the rambo superhero, and do so badly and get killed. Rarely do I not see the team of mostly B+'s stomp the team of A's, while the A's have double digit kills and the B's do not (and even have double digit deaths.)

The game was designed so that team members had to play similarly well to win. The matchmaker doesn't always assign teams of similar ability. But what is the long running question is, why sometimes it CONSISTENTLY assigns teams of dissimilar ability against a team of much more similar ability.

"Take a break" is in fact poor advice, unless you know you are personally not playing well like Tim states, in light of the possibility that the system has a flaw because it encourages people to set expectations that when they come back the situation will be different because they're in a different mindset. When the systematic trend continues (or, randomly reverses) it creates additional frustration when not playing when you wanted to play didn't solve the problem.

The only realistic solution is to come to terms with the nature of the problem and accept the game for what it is.

Playing my way down to B6 knowing it was my fault, and expecting it as part of "re-training for new modes/weapons", only to recover back to A 76 before the game plunged me down, over a matter of days, let me see through saltless-filters the roller coaster of scoring without expectations of how I "should" be doing. And adopting a support rather than aggro role in ranked gave me opportunities to observe my teammates which I previously did not have when I played aggro. I can see when they're playing well, and when they're running headlong into (or avoiding at all costs) danger.

I'm a charger in TC now, but I go aggro when needed even if it gets me splatted. I push the tower when its needed, put myself in harms way trying to clear it off when taken, or keep it safe (or keep an emergency kraken in range by trailing it). When other chargers are on my team, I watch them. There's always the splatterscope that takes an ideal eliter perch. AND NEVER MOVES. The other eliter that gets crushed, but never approaches the tower. "Taking a break" does not resolve these issues. Waiting for a matchmaker to match a better team is all you can do. And if it doesn't....

If you haven't sat and observed your team on the map during losing rounds, you really ought to. You'll laugh. You'll cry. You'll go play Halo.

I think the "just play better" mentality probably applies somewhat to shooter players who play aggro. The mentality you can carry your team to victory if you play hard enough. Not all weapons can do that. And the design of the game against a competent opponent when you're against mostly A+ & S opponents doesn't really allow a 1-player carry. You NEED a fully capable team....at least 3 out of 4.

 

[SupaTim]

I've explained this many times, and will probably explain it many more. How do you deal with losing streaks? Limit them. If you're clearly not playing well, why do you keep playing until you've lost three ranks? If I lose 3-5 times in a row, I accept that I'm not in the zone and I find something else to do. That's how you deal with losing streaks. You simply put the game down and walk away for a few hours or a day.

Why is it that when people lose, it's always because of bad teammates and unbeatable opponents, yet when people win, it's always thanks to them and their flawless play? The other team isn't necessarily more skilled or better coordinated, but some people are convinced this is the case every time they lose. Sure, people will say they make mistakes and aren't perfect, but look at these boards. How many posts are there where people rant about bad teammates and how they played the best they possible could but lost to impossible odds? Now count the posts where people said "thank god the other team were lagging like crazy and had the worst teammates of all time or we'd have never one that match." When people win, it's because of their mad skillz. When they lose, it's because they had to carry a worthless team while they fought hard and masterfully against a team of vastly superior players who were in perfect sync with each other.

I think it would be very interesting if two people were somehow able to record themselves playing for two different random teams in the same match.

Hyperbole aside, I'm not sure that the two are mutually exclusive. I think it is possible, perhaps even common, that you play really well but the other team IS really good and you lose through no fault of your own. I also think it is possible that you play poorly and your team carries you to victory. All in the same lobby. As it is a team game, the argument that YOU ALONE are the one causing your losing streak is suspect (as well as the converse). Push comes to shove, I think everyone would agree that we've played poor at times and have both won and lost those games. Likewise, sometimes we play out of our minds and can't win a game, or destroy the opponents with abandon.

I just don't think it is as simple as you say. And I'm not sure many, if anyone, here actually insists that they have no part in every loss and the whole part in every win.

 

[jsilva]

I'm dealing with the worst ever losing streak right now. Last Friday I was S rank 63 and I was pretty steady in that rank for the last two months. But recently, over the last weekend, I suddenly suffered a horrible losing streak. I've gone down not one, not two, but THREE ranks. Yeah. I'm A- now. It hurt really bad...let's just say the salt shaker is basically empty now. lol

I recently went from S 98 down to A 18 over the course of a few days. I totally get it! When I got down to low A+ I had my son play for me because I was so tired of losing (he's very good) and despite playing extremely well he couldn't even win and dropped me to A 30. I hung around in A for a couple of days after that but made it back up to S 58 pretty easily once the repeated losses stopped.

I feel like in A the only way to get out is to do everything ...to be so good at the game that teammates are just accessories.

That's exactly what it feels like!

I'm pretty sure there's something wrong with how I'm playing, it must be...

I feel very strongly that long losing streaks are not entirely the fault of the player. Of course all you can do is see how you could have played better, so you should do that. But there's no reason to assume you are solely responsible for your ridiculous losses! Especially with how you described your games after dropping out of S. It's so familiar...

 

[jsilva]

Also, the games @jsilva and I won were games that we were either just better than the other team, or at least ONE of us could make up for a bad game from the other. In some lobbies we were both bested by the opposing team and those were the games we lost. I felt that the other dual squad on our team rarely contributed a great deal to the game (not to say they were zombies, but I don't think they ever carried us).

Sorry I didn't play better for you! I wasn't playing my best but overall I didn't play badly, but that was definitely the most imbalanced matching I've seen in squad.

 

[SupaTim]

Sorry I didn't play better for you! I wasn't playing my best but overall I didn't play badly, but that was definitely the most imbalanced matching I've seen in squad.

I don't think either of us played terrible (for the most part). You picked up my slack more often than not. I was referring mostly to that one game where the sloshing machine (iirc) was harassing everyone, and I couldn't get a positive K/D. Your ability to survive is pretty uncanny for a luna player. There will be more opportunities. :D

 

[Airi]

When it comes to losing streaks, I think a good portion of it is very psychological. I know a lot of people are going to disagree with that and I respect that. However, in many cases, it does seem like a losing streak is kept going by our frame of mind. If we're psyching ourselves out, we're going to be playing worse even if we don't realize it. When people get on losing streaks, their ego is understandably pretty damaged. People start thinking and fearing that they're going to keep losing. Even if they take a break, they come back to the game fearing that they are going to lose. This hinders our ability to play because we're doubting ourselves and we're doubting our team. The worst part is that most of the time, we won't even realize we're doing this to ourselves.

Another very big portion of constant loss is something we can't control or fix. Luck. A lot of the ranked system in Splatoon is luck. Your luck is based around the teammates you get and the weapons of your team. In the lower ranks, many matches are very luck based because you have a lot of people who get carried to higher ranks by their S rank friends. This can also be true for the S rank but it feels a bit rarer and more really skill based. Unfortunately, this isn't something we can control and something that happens to the best of us.

 

[Award]

Accidental double post.

 

[Award]

I don't think either of us played terrible (for the most part). You picked up my slack more often than not. I was referring mostly to that one game where the sloshing machine (iirc) was harassing everyone, and I couldn't get a positive K/D. Your ability to survive is pretty uncanny for a luna player. There will be more opportunities. :D

Yeah, having played a lot of luna myself, I had a hard time managing a ratio of k/d quite as widespread as jsilva :)

When it comes to losing streaks, I think a good portion of it is very psychological. I know a lot of people are going to disagree with that and I respect that. However, in many cases, it does seem like a losing streak is kept going by our frame of mind. If we're psyching ourselves out, we're going to be playing worse even if we don't realize it. When people get on losing streaks, their ego is understandably pretty damaged. People start thinking and fearing that they're going to keep losing. Even if they take a break, they come back to the game fearing that they are going to lose. This hinders our ability to play because we're doubting ourselves and we're doubting our team. The worst part is that most of the time, we won't even realize we're doing this to ourselves.

Another very big portion of constant loss is something we can't control or fix. Luck. A lot of the ranked system in Splatoon is luck. Your luck is based around the teammates you get and the weapons of your team. In the lower ranks, many matches are very luck based because you have a lot of people who get carried to higher ranks by their S rank friends. This can also be true for the S rank but it feels a bit rarer and more really skill based. Unfortunately, this isn't something we can control and something that happens to the best of us.

Agreed with everything about luck. Disagree about the psychological mindset though. That's why my experiment was interesting where I KNEW I would be awful and lose a lot. I didn't make it back to A 76 from B 6 by "playing hard intending to dominate", I just played, like it was TW, had some losses, more wins than losses, no stress, whatevs. Then it suddenly started sinking like a rock under the same conditions and mindset, not just that session, but numerous sessions on different days. I was playing with a very different mindset than both I used to, and what it's assumed most are playing with here, because I already came to terms with the systematic problem. And I knew I was the weak link for most of it and intentionally went in knowing so due to new weapons in modes I rarely touched. What you're saying is true, or would be true in normal situations. But not in that cycle or mindset. Whether I "accidentally" got up to A 76 and shouldn't have with my current weapon skills, or "accidentally got dragged back down (currently low a minus after last night) is irrelevant....it's "accidentally" making matches that carry people to extremes which in either case creates a wide swing from B+ through S that is a big revolving door that's really one giant rank. Heck in A, I rarely see a match with A's. Hard to call it A rank if you're rarely fighting A rank. Nintendo itself seems to view B+ through S as a single rank even within the ranks.

Many people DO have the mindset you're talking about when they care about rank...I didn't. I only got frustrated near the end when the absurdity of the cycle was getting kind of obnoxious.

But yesterday, really was weird TW players told me the same..we'll see how today goes.

 

[Legacy]

Losing streaks are something that happen to everyone. If I lose 3 matches in a row, I tend to go turf and play a bit there, and if that doesn't help, I just take a break for a while and come back on later. It really helps to refresh your mind, so long as you just relax. Just remember that losing is an experience that you can fix up on as a player! This is my way of approaching this kind of issue and it works for me. I suggest you should try it out and see how it goes for you. Best of luck!

 

[BlackZero]

however we're going to have to agree to disagree when it comes to the "you're just not playing well enough" rhetoric.

I'm not saying people aren't playing well enough. I'm saying that there are a huge number of factors that determine which team wins or loses. This ranges from a person's emotional state to how their weapon matches up with other weapons to how their own strategies match up with those of the other team. To say that I'm telling people they need to "get good" not even close to what I'm saying. I am saying that we can't simply blame the matchmaker for engineering losing streaks. It's one thing to say the MM sucks (which it does), but to say that it's deliberately setting people up to lose several matches in a row is something else entirely.

And you mitigate when a player knows they're playing well or even better than usual, but losing more than rounds when they know they were under-performing.

Therein likes the problem though. It's very easy for bias to impact how a person feels they've played, so their own self assessment may not be reliable. I can tell you that I feel I did exceptionally well, but someone may watch me play and think I did horribly. I would be more apt to believe the observer than myself because they aren't subject to the same level of bias regarding my performance that I was.

Your advice of limiting losses doesn't apply to people who DO put the game down for a while. Or for a day. Or play several sessions throughout the day on different modes/maps.

About a month ago, I actually took a two-week break from the game. I did that because I was getting so frustrated that it took more than a few hours or even days for me to come back to the game without any sort of residual aggravation. I don't mean put the game down for a few minutes. I mean legitimately walk away from the game and give yourself time to completely wash those horrible matches out of your system. That may take an hour, or it may take a few days. Swapping modes isn't the same as actually putting the game down and doing something else to take your mind off of it.

I know you have your explanation for how it's not the system, and that's fine, but a few of us have already disagreed with your theories and pointed out that your advice has been contradicted by results that do not match your hypotheses. I understand what you're trying to say, and there are absolutely cases that applies, but you're not looking at the more concentrated results where those theories definitely don't apply. And you mitigate when a player knows they're playing well or even better than usual, but losing more than rounds when they know they were under-performing.

When discussing Fire Emblem games, we have a saying: personal experience means nothing. This is because anecdotal evidence varies from each person. This is my problem with people using their own experiences to prove their point. You and others say using a loss threshold did absolutely nothing to stop it. I can honestly say that it worked for me and others on this board have also voiced the importance of putting the game down if they're having a bad night.. Which one of the conflicting accounts are right? Which is the norm? Testimonials are only useful for showing examples of what statistical data has already established. Beyond that, it's a simple matter of one side's story vs. another's.

I've actually looked at scatterplots of videogames that use Elo for matchmaking. I have seen how win and loss streaks cause these wild swings in the player value that Elo uses to form lobbies. I have also seen how putting the brakes on losing streaks by stopping play rather than riding the streak all the way down makes these fluctuations less dramatic. Similarly, putting a cap on win streaks helps even more, but people don't normally do this. I have also read up on different psychological concepts that exaggerate losing streaks. I'm not saying you or anyone else is making stuff up, but if I have to choose between hard statistical data or testimonies, I'm going to chose the data every time. I am truly sorry if these measure don't work for you and others, but they are statistically proven to the be most effective way of stabilizing your match-ups with this type of matchmaker. People who play these games have pointed these observations out.

What you describe, where you only get a series of losing streaks with no winning streaks is contradictory to how Elo functions. In statistics, this is called an outlier. There is a possibility of it happening, but it is far from the norm. An overwhelming preponderance of evidence established that, if a person goes into a win streak, they can expect a proportional losing streak to follow, then a likewise proportional win streak after that, and so on. By limiting the extent of these streaks (both winning and losing), you stabilize this trend and make these win and loss streaks less drastic. This is not a new phenomenon nor is it unique to Splatoon.

Splatoon is a somewhat unfortunate case of this, as Splatfests pretty much encourage binge playing to maximize snail pay-outs. In other games that use Elo, the incentive to maintain a stable player value that gives more consistently fair matchups outweights the incentives behind marathon play. With Splatfests, people are more or less driven to keep playing in spite of win or loss streaks to hit King level.

Which comes back to your own theories on how it makes matches and could pair one super player with 4 mediocre players and the other team 4 average players which ends up better.

Absolutely. I've never dismissed that as a possibility. I don't think it happens regularly enough to explain someone dropping three full ranks, but I do believe it is a factor in short-term losing streaks and general losses.

Say it's not all you want to. Blame the players if you must.

I'm not blaming anybody. I've said many times that there are too many variables to narrow this down to one thing. Some of them have to do with the player, some of them are just plain bad luck. I do believe people play a bigger role than they realize in a loss because people are biased, which is a very difficult thing to overcome when someone has to assess themselves. It's why some people refuse to change bad habits and others are too hard on themselves.

If you haven't sat and observed your team on the map during losing rounds, you really ought to. You'll laugh. You'll cry. You'll go play Halo.

As a general rule, I worry more about what I need to be doing that what other players are doing. At the end of the day, we're all there to try to win and have a good time. There's not much I can do about how my teammates play, so worrying about it is a waste of effort and unhelpful distraction. I coordinate with them the best I can, but ultimately focus on what going on around me.

I think the "just play better" mentality probably applies somewhat to shooter players who play aggro. The mentality you can carry your team to victory if you play hard enough. Not all weapons can do that.

Again, I never said that. I did say that I don't think people factor their own performance into losses as much as they do those of their teammates and opponents. That's not the same as telling people to try harder; that's me saying people should take a look at how they screw up even if they think they're doing well.

Hyperbole aside, I'm not sure that the two are mutually exclusive. I think it is possible, perhaps even common, that you play really well but the other team IS really good and you lose through no fault of your own.

That's a fair point, Tim. Unfortunately, this is a continuation of a conversation from another thread. I've pointed out that there are many factors that cause people to lose, including simple bad luck.

As it is a team game, the argument that YOU ALONE are the one causing your losing streak is suspect (as well as the converse).

Again, that is not the point I'm making. I may have over-exaggerated in my post, but that was only to drive home the point that people don't always realize how they actually perform. Many believe they are doing well, but they are also seeing themselves through biased lenses. This doesn't mean people need to play better, this means people need to recognize when they're having an off night (regardless of how they feel they're playing) and take some time away from the game if they want to avoid losing streaks.

I just don't think it is as simple as you say. And I'm not sure many, if anyone, here actually insists that they have no part in every loss and the whole part in every win.

As I said, this is a continuation of an earlier discussion; so don't think I'm saying it all comes down to the player. In the other thread, I said that Elo aims for as close to a 50/50 chance of either team winning. In that situation any number of things can tip the scales to one side or the other. With that said, I don't know why someone would want to tip the scales against themselves by playing while frustrated from several losses. People often blame teammates or unfair match-ups for their losses, and I get that they are blowing off steam. Still, if you choose to play while mad, your performance will degrade significantly whether you realize it or not. In that case, you really can't blame anyone else for you choosing to play while frustrated.

When it comes to losing streaks, I think a good portion of it is very psychological. I know a lot of people are going to disagree with that and I respect that. However, in many cases, it does seem like a losing streak is kept going by our frame of mind. If we're psyching ourselves out, we're going to be playing worse even if we don't realize it. When people get on losing streaks, their ego is understandably pretty damaged. People start thinking and fearing that they're going to keep losing. Even if they take a break, they come back to the game fearing that they are going to lose. This hinders our ability to play because we're doubting ourselves and we're doubting our team. The worst part is that most of the time, we won't even realize we're doing this to ourselves.

You are absolutely correct, and what you've just described is called "Tilt." In this state of mind, a person is going to act more aggressively and adopt ineffective strategies because they are under the effect of amygdala hijack that has gone into a positive feedback loop. I've tried to explain this to people many times and it is one of the reasons I always recommend people to stop playing the game if they are in a losing streak. You will actually prolong your losing streak this way and make things much worse. This will be followed by an equally dramatic winning streak, so the person will think everything's okay again right until the pendulum swings the other way again and they go back into a losing free fall.

 

[SpaceCanary]

If I get on a losing streak, I either switch weapons to combat what other people seem to be using, or I just go play Turf War or amiibo challenges (or Mario Maker, as happens to be the case with me). If it's bad, I generally wait for one of my staple map/mode combos, such as Moray or Mahi-Mahi Rainmaker.

 

[jazuren]

I find it highly fascinating (given previous posts and discussions where we've debated whether there's merit to a systematic losing streak where it seems designed for you to lose, versus just random luck) that recently we now have 3 different threads specifically asking how people deal with losing streaks. More and more it's confirming for me...

It really does kind of seem that there's odds stacked against me sometimes. I'm really not sure, it's kind of like a game of roulette and the other team just happens to be the victor. I've definitely been playing better today and I've climbed to A 70 and the games putting me in with A+'s now, but I still run into quite a few of those loses that are, like, you can tell it's not going to be very easy to win within the first 30 seconds. I'm playing like myself again since I've cooled off, but it's a slow process. haha

Thanks for your input!
---

I've explained this many times, and will probably explain it many more. How do you deal with losing streaks? Limit them. If you're clearly not playing well, why do you keep playing until you've lost three ranks? If I lose 3-5 times in a row, I accept that I'm not in the zone and I find something else to do. That's how you deal with losing streaks. You simply put the game down and walk away for a few hours or a day...
I think it would be very interesting if two people were somehow able to record themselves playing for two different random teams in the same match.

I know that's the text book way of dealing with a losing streak, but I mean when I put it down for the day and come back again later and still lose it's still a bit tough. It didn't all happen over the course of one day so even when I did put the game down and come back again it never let up. I can add that to me being a bit pig headed, but at the end of the day I like playing Splatoon and ranked matches and just because I'm losing doesn't mean I wanna quit every time I lose more than three games in a row.. Like I said earlier, I guess I could always make a separate new account with now worries and start there...But I don't want to be afraid of ruining my main account anymore.

I see what your saying though, I hope I don't come of like I'm blaming my team, I'm really trying not to. But it just feels like I'm doing everything a lot. My favorite games are when as a team we all did great against an equally good team. And I've had those recently too, but mostly ones where we just happened to lose even though it was a good close game.

-----

While I don't doubt that some of it was matchmaking last night, the games I lost while dual squading were games that I had a terrible showing. I suppose one could argue that boils down to matchmaking as well, since some dual squads are just better than others and tip the scales pretty far. Nevertheless, I felt I could have helped a bit more in some matches. Also, the games @jsilva and I won were games that we were either just better than the other team, or at least ONE of us could make up for a bad game from the other. In some lobbies we were both bested by the opposing team and those were the games we lost. I felt that the other dual squad on our team rarely contributed a great deal to the game (not to say they were zombies, but I don't think they ever carried us).

Typically, when I start playing badly it is precipitated by something weird that happens in the game. Like my burst bomb going through someone, instead of into them. Or two direct burst bombs not splatting someone. Or pumping people with 3+ more shots than it takes to splat and getting a trade at best. Some of these may be my lack of playskill (and therefore a perceived unfairness) but certainly some are due to shortcomings in the game or latency. When the game doesn't let me play fairly it frustrates me to no end and I go on tilt and start playing poorly. Of course, this is (at least partly) a personal problem and I intend to work on it, but, the problem inherent with the game remains.

Another frustration is the point system. TWELVE points for losing and SIX for winning in an "A" lobby seems ludicrous.

That was how I felt on a normal losing streak, but this one is just so out of it to me. There are plenty of moments where I feel like RNG or something gets the best of me (can be a nightmare when using Luna Blaster lol). Usually what I do when I'm losing is switch weapons to accommodate for what I'm lacking that day. I usually play Luna but when my streak started, I figured I needed to pull back so I picked up my .52 gal and started playing defensively. But when I kept losing I decided to play more offensively, but that requires trusting my team to do things like capture splat zones or things like that, so I have to go through a debate on what kind of team I'm playing with. (and if I make the wrong decision on what I should prioritize, we usually lose and then I feel bad about my decision. )

Also yes, I've lost 12 points on so many matches recently, even if we're outranked. V.V


---

I recently went from S 98 down to A 18 over the course of a few days. I totally get it! When I got down to low A+ I had my son play for me because I was so tired of losing (he's very good) and despite playing extremely well he couldn't even win and dropped me to A 30. I hung around in A for a couple of days after that but made it back up to S 58 pretty easily once the repeated losses stopped...I feel very strongly that long losing streaks are not entirely the fault of the player. Of course all you can do is see how you could have played better, so you should do that. But there's no reason to assume you are solely responsible for your ridiculous losses! Especially with how you described your games after dropping out of S. It's so familiar...

That really helps me a lot hearing that others went through this recently too. (I mean, that really sucks but also at least I have someone to talk to about it!) I

You're probably right, I'm the kind of person who probably focuses too much on my mistakes, so naturally I only look at what I did wrong. (I wish I could record my battles to look them over.) I think I'm at the point where I can tell if I'm doing awful and up, I was playing like I normally do. It's a bit hard, like it always seems like after I get splatted we lose control of the game. I feel like once I can start actually enjoying the game again when I play I might make it back up to where I was. But you give me lots of hope!



Thank all of you guys for your input! :)

 

[birdiebee]

Just to share my own little tale of loss and redemption, I went from S 42 to S 78, then down to A+ 20, then back to A+ 59 in the span of a 17 hour play session.
I do agree with @BlackZero that, had I stopped playing after 4-5 losses, and maintained my S rank in the first place, I would have done better the next time I picked it up. I don't know how much I subscribe to the theory that matches get stacked against me if I'm doing "too good" (Sorry @Award ! xD), but I do know I get stressed out, kind of panic when I'm not doing well and play worse than I was when I was winning.

The reason I didn't stop and kept allowing myself to fall was because it was the day off, I didn't have much else to do, and the thought of having to return to work the next day and not have as much time to play stressed me out and made me feel like "I HAVE to do this today...." After I dropped down to A+, I had convinced myself it was NECESSARY to get back to S as quickly as possible because I remembered the horror of the last time I fell out of S rank and the month it took me to get back there (I like to play S rank squad battles without worrying about my rank, so I wanted to get it back up for the next time I squadded). These mental objectives I convinced myself I HAD to do ended up hindering my performance. Had I been patient and allowed myself a few days to play with a clear state of mind, I don't think I would have fallen so hard.

After I quit that session at A+ 59, I played 2 days later and climbed to 91, took a break through a Splat Zones rotation I didn't like, then won a Flounder TC match to put me back in S rank. That was Saturday, I think. It's Wednesday and I haven't touched the game since. Taking time off because that binge session really wore me out. I'll play on my alt later this week and hopefully some squad matches this weekend and I'll be totally refreshed, I think.

 

[jsilva]

I won't get involved in another discussion on the matchmaking. As I've said before it doesn't make any difference to me whether long losing streaks are 'on purpose' or the result of mathematical errors/balancing. It's quite clear to me that it is extremely difficult to get out of these long losing streaks, and that 'tilt' is a completely inadequate explanation given my own many experiences (for instance, with my son playing on my account).

Like Jazuren says, I just want to play the game. I don't want to stop playing simply because the system decided I'm going to lose (whether through deliberation or error). So, losing streaks ... do your best :)