Indication that You've Learned a Weapon Well

[ChaosChao]

So I try to rank up weapons to silver SUPERFRESH rating in Turf War as a means to tell me I understand the weapon pretty well. Is this is good indicator for that or should I rely on something else?

 

[Amarae]

I've never gotten anything to SuperFresh actually, and I think that it might be unreasonable to use that a metric for some weapons. Turf War being a more "Carry or get carried" (All Splatoon essentially until you start playing with teams) might leave weapons that fill a supportive niche left out. It also may depend on your style, I'm a fairly objective and defensively oriented player, which tends to leave my K/D in a stable but lower average state than most hard carry players. For Turf War, that can often mean simply not winning as much.

I think the best metric is just how good you feel with a weapon. In Splatoon 1 I was a master CDS player. I played the CDS (Custom Dual Squelcher) more than any other single weapon, and for a long time by a considerable amount. After a certain time spent with a single weapon like that, it begins to feel more like an extension of your character (Cheesy to say I know, but trust me) than a weapon you are playing with. I could feel the rhythm of its fire-rate like the beat of my own heart, it's range like the reaching of my own fist at the enemy. When I was exclusive to the CDS, I had a confidence in my worst element (Aggressive fragging) that I could sense in no other weapon. At this level of familiarity, how you're playing your weapon is second nature, and you begin to feel the match at large unfold around you. You no longer consider what angles are good or bad for you, where you can reach with your range. You don't need to think about whether or how you can tackle an opponent, you start to think about whether it's *important for you to do that* at the time. Strategy moves to the forefront of your mind and the mechanics take a backseat.

That to me is how I begin to know that I understand my weapon.

To add to this, one of the first points of advice I give to people who want to learn if to take one weapon and Main the hell out of it. Keep a couple back ups, but as much as possible stick to that one weapon, even when it gets boring, even in bad match-ups. For every hour played on not this weapon, play three on it. Reach that point where you stop thinking about your weapon ever and you just know it. When you get that far, you start noticing so much more about an individual match and you begin to learn extremely quickly for a short period before the finer elements begin to settle in. When you can eliminate all the variables of unfamiliarity or inexperience on your end (By using only weapons you are extremely familiar with) you can more easily identify what's wrong with your strategy, or adept to the strategies being employed by your allies and opponents. This is the path, at least initially, to being an extremely strong solo player and heightening your individual ability.

Edit: Sorry, didn't mean to get all deep on ya, it just sorta happened while I was thinking about it.

 

[Ansible]

↑ ↑ ↑ ↑
Cheesy? Yep.:p True? YUP!

Can't say much else beyond just repeating @Amarae .

But if you also need metrics to attempt tracking your progress, then the freshness rating may not be ideal given how variable Turf War can be. Yet if you haven't already, make use of the Splatnet app instead. Not only go over your stats and previous battle records, but also try to remember some key moments in those previous battles when using your weapon. And while you're at it take clips whenever you can! Of both the good, bad, and in-between moments then review them afterwards to analyse. Review those clips that very day, the next day, a week from then, months from then, or whenever.

Heck, consider keeping notes to jot down whatever, like, how long you've used what weapon during how long a session, your results and thoughts on matches, thoughts like "must remember ___ will always outrange me," or "doing ____ uses up ____ amount of ink," or "my weapon can steamroll someone when they do ___," and so on. And review them on occasion!

 

[ChaosChao]

I've never gotten anything to SuperFresh actually, and I think that it might be unreasonable to use that a metric for some weapons. Turf War being a more "Carry or get carried" (All Splatoon essentially until you start playing with teams) might leave weapons that fill a supportive niche left out. It also may depend on your style, I'm a fairly objective and defensively oriented player, which tends to leave my K/D in a stable but lower average state than most hard carry players. For Turf War, that can often mean simply not winning as much.

I think the best metric is just how good you feel with a weapon. In Splatoon 1 I was a master CDS player. I played the CDS (Custom Dual Squelcher) more than any other single weapon, and for a long time by a considerable amount. After a certain time spent with a single weapon like that, it begins to feel more like an extension of your character (Cheesy to say I know, but trust me) than a weapon you are playing with. I could feel the rhythm of its fire-rate like the beat of my own heart, it's range like the reaching of my own fist at the enemy. When I was exclusive to the CDS, I had a confidence in my worst element (Aggressive fragging) that I could sense in no other weapon. At this level of familiarity, how you're playing your weapon is second nature, and you begin to feel the match at large unfold around you. You no longer consider what angles are good or bad for you, where you can reach with your range. You don't need to think about whether or how you can tackle an opponent, you start to think about whether it's *important for you to do that* at the time. Strategy moves to the forefront of your mind and the mechanics take a backseat.

That to me is how I begin to know that I understand my weapon.

To add to this, one of the first points of advice I give to people who want to learn if to take one weapon and Main the hell out of it. Keep a couple back ups, but as much as possible stick to that one weapon, even when it gets boring, even in bad match-ups. For every hour played on not this weapon, play three on it. Reach that point where you stop thinking about your weapon ever and you just know it. When you get that far, you start noticing so much more about an individual match and you begin to learn extremely quickly for a short period before the finer elements begin to settle in. When you can eliminate all the variables of unfamiliarity or inexperience on your end (By using only weapons you are extremely familiar with) you can more easily identify what's wrong with your strategy, or adept to the strategies being employed by your allies and opponents. This is the path, at least initially, to being an extremely strong solo player and heightening your individual ability.

Edit: Sorry, didn't mean to get all deep on ya, it just sorta happened while I was thinking about it.

So what's a good way to just know then? I use the Dualie Squelchers the most but I'm sure I can be better with even those. At what point does it become instinct, so to speak?

 

[Amarae]

I mean, you'll know because you feel it. I consider my "Good-ness or Bad-ness" to be made up of two identities. Mechanical and Strategic skill. So to get an idea of how far along you are with a weapon on a short term sense, let's look at my scaling system.

I am X good at the game because I am the sum of my strategic decisions and mechanical aptitude. If you replace my given weapon(s) with any other, I am still going to achieve a relative level of success to my total sum skill "X" but I might play at level of "Y" with any other weapon. I can very clearly feel the difference in these two realms because my strategic skill, while perhaps influenced, is unchanged. It is my mechanical skill that is being upset.

So the first step is to identify how good you are in general.

Then, when you are good enough with a particular weapon, it will be noticeable to yourself in particular. It might come as a "Wow I'm actually really good with this weapon now that I think about it" moment later on, as you have gradually acclimated into being synchronised with it. Or it might just be the confidence or even mere enjoyment of the weapon that leads you to consider yourself masterful relative to your general skill.

In the end, you will know you are at a much higher level relative to yourself with one weapon over another because you will simply feel that your understanding of it is greater than any other. Like wearing clothing for so long, you are so accustomed to its fit that you know it is yours and it is not wearing it that feels off.

 

[ChaosChao]

I mean, you'll know because you feel it. I consider my "Good-ness or Bad-ness" to be made up of two identities. Mechanical and Strategic skill. So to get an idea of how far along you are with a weapon on a short term sense, let's look at my scaling system.

I am X good at the game because I am the sum of my strategic decisions and mechanical aptitude. If you replace my given weapon(s) with any other, I am still going to achieve a relative level of success to my total sum skill "X" but I might play at level of "Y" with any other weapon. I can very clearly feel the difference in these two realms because my strategic skill, while perhaps influenced, is unchanged. It is my mechanical skill that is being upset.

So the first step is to identify how good you are in general.

Then, when you are good enough with a particular weapon, it will be noticeable to yourself in particular. It might come as a "Wow I'm actually really good with this weapon now that I think about it" moment later on, as you have gradually acclimated into being synchronised with it. Or it might just be the confidence or even mere enjoyment of the weapon that leads you to consider yourself masterful relative to your general skill.

In the end, you will know you are at a much higher level relative to yourself with one weapon over another because you will simply feel that your understanding of it is greater than any other. Like wearing clothing for so long, you are so accustomed to its fit that you know it is yours and it is not wearing it that feels off.

I don't know how good I am. I can't gauge how good I am in the game honestly without comparing myself to others.

 

[Amarae]

I don't know how good I am. I can't gauge how good I am in the game honestly without comparing myself to others.

Well in a game that is about competing against others, comparing yourself to other players is the only metric you can use in the general sense. The metric we ought to use for improving ourselves however, is to compare ourselves to our older selves compared to the rest of the players. Your signature states you are S rank in two modes, that should give you some understanding of how good you are by comparison to other players. in Splatoon 1, roughly 50% of players were in S. If this is true of Splatoon 2, you are roughly average.

It doesn't really matter though, because when I say understand how good you are, I mean more compared to yourself. To again reference the CDS in my Splat 1 days, I used to play 16 hours a day of Splatoon. It was all I did for a long time. When playing the CDS, I felt empowered in a way that other weapons would simply not deliver. You will notice when a particular weapon takes hold of you, because the way you feel when using it will overpower how you feel with other weapons.

If this sounds like some weird spiritual crap that's because it basically is. You will simply, feel it. You will know where to be, how to fight certain other weapons, how to be aggressive or defensive with your weapon. You will know how many frames (Whether you count or not) it takes for you to splat, you will know your ranges, you will know your arc, you will know all of this so intrinsically you do not think about it. You will feel a potential for success (Because success will still require the Strategic skill to match) with the given weapon you have acquired such mastery with more strongly than any other weapon.

It's literally that. You'll just feel it.

 

[Dessgeega]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with several points.

To add to this, one of the first points of advice I give to people who want to learn if to take one weapon and Main the hell out of it. Keep a couple back ups, but as much as possible stick to that one weapon, even when it gets boring, even in bad match-ups. For every hour played on not this weapon, play three on it. Reach that point where you stop thinking about your weapon ever and you just know it. When you get that far, you start noticing so much more about an individual match and you begin to learn extremely quickly for a short period before the finer elements begin to settle in. When you can eliminate all the variables of unfamiliarity or inexperience on your end (By using only weapons you are extremely familiar with) you can more easily identify what's wrong with your strategy, or adept to the strategies being employed by your allies and opponents. This is the path, at least initially, to being an extremely strong solo player and heightening your individual ability.

While there is value in being able to use your weapon without thinking about it, you don't have to main something to achieve that. What's described here is a path to crippling overspecialization. Maining only one weapon hurts your flexibility as a player. Many players main 2 to 5 weapons, or a given weapon class, for optimal results.

Well in a game that is about competing against others, comparing yourself to other players is the only metric you can use in the general sense. The metric we ought to use for improving ourselves however, is to compare ourselves to our older selves compared to the rest of the players. Your signature states you are S rank in two modes, that should give you some understanding of how good you are by comparison to other players. in Splatoon 1, roughly 50% of players were in S. If this is true of Splatoon 2, you are roughly average.

Incorrect. According to Nintendo themselves only about 5% of the playerbase is in S, so Chaoschao is distinctly above average. Hell, they're above average just being here asking questions, the largest section of any competitive playerbase is the silent majority.

If this sounds like some weird spiritual crap that's because it basically is. You will simply, feel it. You will know where to be, how to fight certain other weapons, how to be aggressive or defensive with your weapon. You will know how many frames (Whether you count or not) it takes for you to splat, you will know your ranges, you will know your arc, you will know all of this so intrinsically you do not think about it. You will feel a potential for success (Because success will still require the Strategic skill to match) with the given weapon you have acquired such mastery with more strongly than any other weapon.

It's literally that. You'll just feel it.

You can learn all that on the firing range and in recon mode. Spending an hour or so there testing painting range, killing range, direct/indirect damage and other statistics on the dummies is invaluable and a lot easier to memorize than anything in the heat of combat. Likewise, you can get a feel for any given weapon's reach on a specific stage by going on that stage alone - there's 6 stages available at a time, you can scope out all of them quickly enough. Large amounts of practice is valuable, yes, but hard data and weapon knowledge doesn't require hours and hours on the battlefield.

As for my feelings? A weapon's clicked in my opinion when you're winning at least 60% of your matches with it and not being placed at the bottom of the team consistently. You don't have to be a master for a weapon to feel natural, but it will show you're doing well and that you're climbing the skill ladder. And even then, that's not the hallmark of a truly skilled player. I may adore my Jet Squelcher but I can pick up most any shooter and do alright for myself, something I'm continuing to work on. Your skill will transfer to any similar weapon if you put in the effort to learn in a more generalized fashion.

 

[Nutmeat]

Getting a weapon to Superfresh is not an indication of proficiency with that weapon. I would say its more like an indication of "here's a weapon that you should consider learning". As posters above have stated, it takes a lot of time to really understand a weapon, much longer than it does to get a Superfesh.

 

[ϛ(°³°)/`]

I feel like the best indication of how well you understand a weapon is how you handle different situations with it. For example, you can overextend with a splat roller or a sploosh and be perfectly fine in solo queue, maybe even get a few dumb kills while wreaking havoc. If you overextend with something like a charger or a splatling, you're now on the spot and have to react accordingly to stay alive and get out of there. If you inherently know the strengths and weaknesses of your weapon, and can react on the spot to your surroundings without even having to think about what the best course of action is, then you know your weapon well enough. -and this is entirely contingent on the game mode you're playing, not exclusive to Turf Wars.

 

[Amarae]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with several points.

While there is value in being able to use your weapon without thinking about it, you don't have to main something to achieve that. What's described here is a path to crippling overspecialization. Maining only one weapon hurts your flexibility as a player. Many players main 2 to 5 weapons, or a given weapon class, for optimal results.

I myself main 2-5 weapons, but my point was that learning initially it's better to reduce your variables and stick to one weapon. I did have more success as I branched out (Partly because the CDS was so limited), but I did so using the fundamentals I picked up during my time spent mostly using just the one weapon.

Incorrect. According to Nintendo themselves only about 5% of the playerbase is in S, so Chaoschao is distinctly above average. Hell, they're above average just being here asking questions, the largest section of any competitive playerbase is the silent majority.

I said that of Splatoon 1, and mentioned "If that is still true". The last chart I saw for Splatoon 1 placed 45% of players in S rank.

You can learn all that on the firing range and in recon mode. Spending an hour or so there testing painting range, killing range, direct/indirect damage and other statistics on the dummies is invaluable and a lot easier to memorize than anything in the heat of combat. Likewise, you can get a feel for any given weapon's reach on a specific stage by going on that stage alone - there's 6 stages available at a time, you can scope out all of them quickly enough. Large amounts of practice is valuable, yes, but hard data and weapon knowledge doesn't require hours and hours on the battlefield.

I'm not talking about knowing the data. I know the TTK of the Splatoon 1 Splattershot is 15 frames. Everyone knows that. Everyone knows the range is 2.5. What I"m talking about it understanding that. Understanding how to use that data in the situation and not just being able to recite it to someone to sound like you understand how to use a weapon.

 

[ChaosChao]

Judging by my signature, you can probably tell I use the Dualie Squelchers a lot. I'm asking because I don't want to be overly reliant on that. Furthermore, it's tough for me to switch weapons to learn because the sub on the Dualie Squelchers isn't offensive, it's support-based so I often forget to use my sub because I have the mentality of "use it to seek out targets" not "use it as a means of offense in conjunction to my main weapon" you know?

 

[Dessgeega]

I myself main 2-5 weapons, but my point was that learning initially it's better to reduce your variables and stick to one weapon. I did have more success as I branched out (Partly because the CDS was so limited), but I did so using the fundamentals I picked up during my time spent mostly using just the one weapon.

Fair enough and sensible.

I said that of Splatoon 1, and mentioned "If that is still true". The last chart I saw for Splatoon 1 placed 45% of players in S rank.

Yep, I just felt the need to be pedantic :P

I'm not talking about knowing the data. I know the TTK of the Splatoon 1 Splattershot is 15 frames. Everyone knows that. Everyone knows the range is 2.5. What I"m talking about it understanding that. Understanding how to use that data in the situation and not just being able to recite it to someone to sound like you understand how to use a weapon.

Knowing can lead to understanding in my experiences. Having that data in your head leads to "how do I apply this?" which can lead to better success. My point is that it's just an easier starting point than just diving in with a particular weapon and getting to "feel" it. Knowledge is power!

Judging by my signature, you can probably tell I use the Dualie Squelchers a lot. I'm asking because I don't want to be overly reliant on that. Furthermore, it's tough for me to switch weapons to learn because the sub on the Dualie Squelchers isn't offensive, it's support-based so I often forget to use my sub because I have the mentality of "use it to seek out targets" not "use it as a means of offense in conjunction to my main weapon" you know?

Generally, when someone's ready to expand a safe start is weapons of similar capability, which you're already doing. From this it sounds like you're having more difficulty adjusting to using bombs more than issues with the main weapons... which I can understand. I take it you use the Custom Splattershot Jr. a lot for turf? Perhaps try the regular Jr. with some Ink Saver Sub and focus on trying to spook and kill folks with the splat bombs for a few matches. That step might help open the door for you.

 

[Mar$el]

Judging by my signature, you can probably tell I use the Dualie Squelchers a lot. I'm asking because I don't want to be overly reliant on that. Furthermore, it's tough for me to switch weapons to learn because the sub on the Dualie Squelchers isn't offensive, it's support-based so I often forget to use my sub because I have the mentality of "use it to seek out targets" not "use it as a means of offense in conjunction to my main weapon" you know?

It sounds to me that you need to branch yourself out to different weapons with different kits with the intention of learning how to use them. The intention is key here. If you have the intention then you will keep playing that weapon (I've done this in turf) just trying out different things with the kits and getting a feel for how to use it. I can't really prescribe any specific methods to doing this because I'm not too sure myself. I recall specifically doing this to learn inkjet by using the tentatek splattershot. I wanted to learn how to use curling bombs so I learned the bamboozler. I wanted to learn how to use baller so I picked up the slosher deco, and it turned out to be one of my favorite weapons that I main. Put yourself out there with the intention of learning. Even if you really suck at first, if you have the drive to learn (especially in low stakes turf war) then you won't be bothered by it too much.

 

[LiX]

I said that of Splatoon 1, and mentioned "If that is still true". The last chart I saw for Splatoon 1 placed 45% of players in S rank.

Just to comment on this point: When you said that 45% of the people were in S in Splatoon 1, my first reflex to way to say "Nahh, impossible." But then I remembered: In the first game we had mad hacking and savescumming. That may be why so many people could be in S. So your statistics are probably right.

In Splatoon 2 where we can do neither, rank is likely a better way to tell how good you are compared to others. Especially knowing those latest statistics there above.

 

[Amarae]

The stats in Splat 1 were basically that before Hacking got super prominent. In fact I find it absolutely bizarre it's not that way in Splatoon 2 given that this bloated S rank of SPlatoon 1 was caused by their being almost zero penalty for losing compared to massive point gains for winning. Only in S80 and upward was there actually any climbing at all, the rest was just grinding and you would inevitably at length make it to S80 as a 50/50 win rate. That's atrocious.

Splatoon 2 is amazingly even worse allowing players to skip ranks and employ almost literally no effort while still climbing with zero penalty for losing and relatively massive bonuses for winning.

So I can't imagine it's not the same but worse.

 

[Gameboy224]

The stats in Splat 1 were basically that before Hacking got super prominent. In fact I find it absolutely bizarre it's not that way in Splatoon 2 given that this bloated S rank of SPlatoon 1 was caused by their being almost zero penalty for losing compared to massive point gains for winning. Only in S80 and upward was there actually any climbing at all, the rest was just grinding and you would inevitably at length make it to S80 as a 50/50 win rate. That's atrocious.

Splatoon 2 is amazingly even worse allowing players to skip ranks and employ almost literally no effort while still climbing with zero penalty for losing and relatively massive bonuses for winning.

So I can't imagine it's not the same but worse.

Even in Splatoon 1, I find that an implausibility. S rank comprising 45% of the playerbase just seems unrealistic. Even if hacking is involved.

The only way I could see that even remotely being possible is if that metric was obtained through a survey of a certain group. Say, on this forum. Cause let's be honestly, this forum is gonna have more advanced players than the population at large.

45% of people being in S rank or higher is just unreasonable when you consider:
1. There are people who are just plain bad at the game.
2. There are people who play but bail on the game. Most likely not having achieved S rank, their data still exists in the pool.
3. There are people who are good, but not S rank good.

That still just as much applies in Splatoon 2. People who skip ranks, typically are not people who don't deserve it to some degree. You skip ranks by basically clearing an entire rank without losing and or a mix of you perform exceedingly well in comparison to everybody else. It's a system designed to get players who are clearly above a rank's level, to the rank they should be in.
In Splatoon 2, it might be harder to lose your rank, but it is still plenty plausible to find yourself in a rank limbo.
Hence why the rank percentages Nintendo listed recently I think are fairly realistic considering all the above.

 

[Amarae]

Well this isn't the actual data, but it's an analysis of the ranking system from I believe 2.2 and looking back to 2.0 and earlier that I've seen referenced often. https://www.evanmiller.org/splatoons-ranking-system-is-still-broken.html

 

[ChaosChao]

I guess while this thread is going I would also like to ask how to do better in Rainmaker and Clam Blitz. I'm (slowly) making my way up in Clam Blitz's rankings but Rainmaker I've been walled on A- for months now. Any advice would be helpful.

 

[Ansible]

Let's not forget Splat 1's squad battle system allows you to be carried from C-100 to A+99. And that there's one rank for all three ranked modes.

Anywho~...

I guess while this thread is going I would also like to ask how to do better in Rainmaker and Clam Blitz. I'm (slowly) making my way up in Clam Blitz's rankings but Rainmaker I've been walled on A- for months now. Any advice would be helpful.

So what do you do in Rainmaker? Like weapons (Glooga Dualies, right? I can't remember =p ), playstyle, tactics, etc?