Is defending your base still a viable strategy?

[Vitezen]

If what you're saying is true, it really just comes down to players not understanding how to play the game. There is no mode when the entire team can win just by killing. There is always some objective to accomplish, and if the entire team ignores it they lose. This is why I prefer flexible weapons, because I am always switching between killing or focusing on the objective, and I need something that can do everything.

Like I said, you can't control your teammates. If you're really having that much trouble, get a team, or at least stay out of TW if you want to play with people of a high level.

 

[Award]

If what you're saying is true, it really just comes down to players not understanding how to play the game. There is no mode when the entire team can win just by killing. There is always some objective to accomplish, and if the entire team ignores it they lose. This is why I prefer flexible weapons, because I am always switching between killing or focusing on the objective, and I need something that can do everything.

Like I said, you can't control your teammates. If you're really having that much trouble, get a team, or at least stay out of TW if you want to play with people of a high level.

Sadly, that's reassuring - I'd rather the problem be awful teammates, which is to be expected, than a devastating new meta that relies on what I'd consider completely funless gameplay of rush/storm/kill/and hold.

I saw the same type of situation several times yesterday in various maps - our base largely uninked, and I can neither ink nor push because I'm the only one "defending the base" (I.e. standing just inside our base at mid repelling the incoming waves of enemies.) Typically if I abandon my post to ink the base, or assist the team at the front, or worse, get splatted, that's it, without me holding that line, the enemy advances into our base, and it's over, there's no way to recover the ground lost. So I stay and hold that line. We actually won a few that way - but it was just heartbreaking looking at the map at the end. Our largely uninked base, a contested mid with both colors, and then our color pushing well into their base (which otherwise had every corner painted), with their color surrounding the sides of the map, clearly working very well on a rebound. We won by "luck" that the timer ran out before the enemy could stage their regroup, not because we solidly controlled any part of the map aside for the portion behind me.. Another 20s and the team would have been cut off and surrounded.

And I've felt the pain of having an uninked base in terms of loss of mobility to cut off an advance or fall back to a defensible position. In Piranha I got splatted about 1:00 on the clock and the enemy was moving through our main corridor toward the conveyors down. It would have or should have been easy for me to take the left route down and surprise them from the conveyor, cutting past them, or fall back to the bottom pit and ambush them. But no. Nobody inked the left route, or the bottom pit (there was a line and some splashings like someone flew through there painting by spraiying in every direction and as long as there was SOME paint SOMEWHERE it counted as painted), or the conveyor, or the ramp to the tower, so I could only either run on foot to meet them head on or ink my way as I went. the delay was of course disastrous. They were already inking the bottom when I got there, and there was just no time to repel and repaint all of that. I finished the round having been splatted 3x (the one that sent me back and the 2x kamikazi runs trying to take them head-on from an uninked unfortified position to get rid of them. The rest of my team had been splatted 6+ times, mostly just charging enemy territory, deep into enemy ink.

None of that is really related to the zerg rush rounds I OPed about but it's various examples of the bloodthirsty buccaneers on my teams.

I swear, every time I lose and the base is uninked and mid is contested, if I look at the map at the end, I ALWAYS see blotches of our ink all the way up to enemy spawn showing we clearly had "the whole map" painted at one time or another - and there's ALWAYS 1 or more squids deep in enemy ink, cut off and surrounded.

Unfortunately seeing some of these same problems is the reason I dropped back to mostly TW other than simply liking the mode. At least in TW it's harder to loathe your team for letting you down with these exact issues. Most of these clowns are NOT in the C's. The TC zerg rush was the most unforgiving of all. (I'd like to know what my team did in that TC round, because they didn't ride the tower, and they didn't seem to defend the tower. They didn't paint anything, and they didn't have a lot of splats. )

 

[Flareth]

In Piranha I got splatted about 1:00 on the clock and the enemy was moving through our main corridor toward the conveyors down. It would have or should have been easy for me to take the left route down and surprise them from the conveyor, cutting past them, or fall back to the bottom pit and ambush them. But no. Nobody inked the left route, or the bottom pit (there was a line and some splashings like someone flew through there painting by spraiying in every direction and as long as there was SOME paint SOMEWHERE it counted as painted), or the conveyor, or the ramp to the tower, so I could only either run on foot to meet them head on or ink my way as I went.

That's actually something I've noticed with Piranha Pit myself. Most of the time, if I don't make inking the far left side my priority when the match starts, it's generally not inked until after the first splatted squiddo on my team respawns. Although even then, if the other team can secure the middle ground and conveyor belts they'll usually take it anyway.

 

[Award]

That's actually something I've noticed with Piranha Pit myself. Most of the time, if I don't make inking the far left side my priority when the match starts, it's generally not inked until after the first splatted squiddo on my team respawns. Although even then, if the other team can secure the middle ground and conveyor belts they'll usually take it anyway.

Yeah, I used to make that a priority but I've found setting up a defensive line up at the middle conveyor isn't the first priority, things go bad. I've made an art of defending that area with any weapon and tend to HOPE that someone else goes down and inks while I keep it clear. Too often, that doesn't happen though. Carbon is the only weapon I'll take offensive to the enemy territory though. But only if the rest of the team is actually defending mid. More than one. Too many times I've left a 1v1 battle to a teammate while I move on only to find they got splatted and everything fell apart.

The other day we got spawncamped so bad I had to take custom eliter, alone, to the enemy base and start inking. Nobody followed me. Even with 3 beacons.

I've been taking the time when things go bad to even if it costs the match just sit on spawn and watch what my team is doing. I should really wear Recon of I want to do that, but oh well. Invariably, once things snowball and we're on our back foot, or getting close to spawncamped, if I look out what I'll generally is at least one other splatted squid at spawn. This squid almost invarably superjumps to one of the one or two squids who are fighting in mid. They will be splatted by the time he gets there, but they will have time to jump back to him before they all get splatted again. Then there is the one, sometimes two very, very deep inside enemy territory, surrounded on all sides by enemy ink. In some cases this squid gets taken out. In most cases the enemy seems to be aware of the fact that this squid will be harmless if left alone in their base. They let him roam there and just return to cover up his ink periodically. Almost every single time. Not much you can do if a squid voluntarily removes himself from battle.

There are some TRUE "zerg rushers" though. Triggerfish yesterday there were, for the second time, squids entering our gates before we even made it up to the bridge. I'm not sure how they got there so fast. I'm going to guess Opening Gambit and/or stacked swim/run speeds.

 

[SupaTim]

IMO, holding mid, which seems to go hand-in-hand with "defending your base" is the best strategy for turf wars. If you can keep the other team in their base (not necessarily at their spawn, but their base), then you will win. Now, a late game push into their base is good, but too often I see my teammates get bored/over-confident and push into the enemies base too soon.

Example, Ancho-V Games: obviously the middle area with the rising platforms is crucial, but once you control that area, it is necessary to defend it, don't just move on. Typically I stay on the ground and chuck burst bombs over to the enemies side. I won't always splat people, but it pushes them back. If someone is already stalking the mid, then I'll head to the right to ink part of their base with the high ground. But it bothers me to no end when 3 of my teammates cluster right under spawn just to be taken out with a special rush, leaving me to get ganged up on at mid. If this happens with 40 seconds left then we will often lose (unless I play out of my mind).

Defend mid and don't over-extend. If someone gets past mid and into your base you should go and splat them, lest they flank you and your teammates from behind. And for the love of everything that is inky, if someone is spamming booyah, it probably means they've died and you should watch your back/their X.

Sorry...this turned into a rant.

 

[Flareth]

Yeah, I used to make that a priority but I've found setting up a defensive line up at the middle conveyor isn't the first priority, things go bad. I've made an art of defending that area with any weapon and tend to HOPE that someone else goes down and inks while I keep it clear. Too often, that doesn't happen though. Carbon is the only weapon I'll take offensive to the enemy territory though. But only if the rest of the team is actually defending mid. More than one. Too many times I've left a 1v1 battle to a teammate while I move on only to find they got splatted and everything fell apart.

Piranha Pit is a deceptively large map, with multiple ways to get to where you need to be. This is a good thing in theory, since it means that a team can't just camp at the entrance and call it a day. In practice, however, there's nearly always an enemy charger up on the high grates/platforms near their spawn that'll keep anyone from getting beyond the upward conveyors, effectively camping us while the rest of their team gets busy. And nobody seems to have any way of clearing him out. (Lord knows I can't unless I'm rockin' the Octoshot.)

I've been taking the time when things go bad to even if it costs the match just sit on spawn and watch what my team is doing. I should really wear Recon of I want to do that, but oh well. Invariably, once things snowball and we're on our back foot, or getting close to spawncamped, if I look out what I'll generally is at least one other splatted squid at spawn. This squid almost invarably superjumps to one of the one or two squids who are fighting in mid. They will be splatted by the time he gets there, but they will have time to jump back to him before they all get splatted again. Then there is the one, sometimes two very, very deep inside enemy territory, surrounded on all sides by enemy ink. In some cases this squid gets taken out. In most cases the enemy seems to be aware of the fact that this squid will be harmless if left alone in their base. They let him roam there and just return to cover up his ink periodically. Almost every single time. Not much you can do if a squid voluntarily removes himself from battle.

Recon is... well, it's good if you want to fire an Inkstrike exactly where the enemy is, to see if the squiddo you plan to Super Jump to is likely to be killed before you get there, and if you don't happen to be using a weapon with the Echolocator.
Speaking from experience, I've been one of those squidiots who mistakenly Super Jumps into an early death. In my case, it's because I'm trying to save time; I don't usually use Swim speed Up, so it's faster to jump to somewhere than swim there. I imagine for them it's the same.
As to the latter case, if I could guess, I'd say it's either A) they don't realize that the home base is under attack, or B) they want to cover the enemy base and work backwards from there. The former is what happens to me every now and then; the latter, well... I bet they think they're clever, heroically charging into the home base with their guns blazin' and perhaps a Kraken charged up.

 

[Award]

IMO, holding mid, which seems to go hand-in-hand with "defending your base" is the best strategy for turf wars. If you can keep the other team in their base (not necessarily at their spawn, but their base), then you will win. Now, a late game push into their base is good, but too often I see my teammates get bored/over-confident and push into the enemies base too soon.

Example, Ancho-V Games: obviously the middle area with the rising platforms is crucial, but once you control that area, it is necessary to defend it, don't just move on. Typically I stay on the ground and chuck burst bombs over to the enemies side. I won't always splat people, but it pushes them back. If someone is already stalking the mid, then I'll head to the right to ink part of their base with the high ground. But it bothers me to no end when 3 of my teammates cluster right under spawn just to be taken out with a special rush, leaving me to get ganged up on at mid. If this happens with 40 seconds left then we will often lose (unless I play out of my mind).

Defend mid and don't over-extend. If someone gets past mid and into your base you should go and splat them, lest they flank you and your teammates from behind. And for the love of everything that is inky, if someone is spamming booyah, it probably means they've died and you should watch your back/their X.

Sorry...this turned into a rant.

That's exactly the way I always thought about it! And I think you're right about either boredom or overconfidence. Paying more attention I've seen 3 different scenarios when the "Rushes" happen:

1. My team seems to be ink happy, either charging specials, or painting the full base BEFORE establishing a defensive line. The enemy likely comes in in force at this point and takes over the base.
2. My team seems battle happy and rushes right to the enemy spawn, either being ignored, or bowled over en route. The enemy comes in in force and takes over the base.
3. My team does things right, takes mid, but instead of advancing slowly, the enemy vanishes and everything is silent in mid. Instead of digging in and waiting for an assault, my team decides to charge into the enemy base where they get easily picked off. Then the full force of the enemy comes, specials losed, taking out my defensive position in mid, and then takes over the base.

I saw exactly what you described in Ancho-V numerous times, and I play it exactly as you described you do.

And for the ranting record : I am so tired of getting attacked from the direction of my own base, in all maps, but especially in Depot. If I am watching the entire left hand side alone, and threatening, holding back a squid or two down there, I can only presume the rest of my team is watching the right hand side. But no. 75% of the time, they went to the right, and proceeded up to the enemy's base on the rear wall, where they of course got splatted. The enemy then comes up our base from that side, and gets me from behind while I'm sniping at their little decoy down in the bottom left. They do not wait until both the right AND left are secure and painted to advance to the enemy base, they just race up just one side, leaving the other one open. Great work watching my back while I watched yours, team! Because a Custom eliter/Custom Hydra can do SO well in CQC!

Piranha Pit is a deceptively large map, with multiple ways to get to where you need to be. This is a good thing in theory, since it means that a team can't just camp at the entrance and call it a day. In practice, however, there's nearly always an enemy charger up on the high grates/platforms near their spawn that'll keep anyone from getting beyond the upward conveyors, effectively camping us while the rest of their team gets busy. And nobody seems to have any way of clearing him out. (Lord knows I can't unless I'm rockin' the Octoshot.)


Recon is... well, it's good if you want to fire an Inkstrike exactly where the enemy is, to see if the squiddo you plan to Super Jump to is likely to be killed before you get there, and if you don't happen to be using a weapon with the Echolocator.
Speaking from experience, I've been one of those squidiots who mistakenly Super Jumps into an early death. In my case, it's because I'm trying to save time; I don't usually use Swim speed Up, so it's faster to jump to somewhere than swim there. I imagine for them it's the same.
As to the latter case, if I could guess, I'd say it's either A) they don't realize that the home base is under attack, or B) they want to cover the enemy base and work backwards from there. The former is what happens to me every now and then; the latter, well... I bet they think they're clever, heroically charging into the home base with their guns blazin' and perhaps a Kraken charged up.

The two ways they get around me on the sniping perch in Piranha is evasively running/inking past me, especially with loaded specials. Snipers have a hard time dealing with 3 targets at once. Or two sneaky ones. If I miss two shots, I'm in trouble. And of course getting me from below if they get there. Often they'll hit with an inkstrike, wail, or inkzooka, or suction bomb rush, or all 4 at once. :D

Recon is kind of worthless unless you super jump a lot. it doesn't have TOO many good traits, but if you're kitted up with a bunch of quick super jump mains like custom eliter I can see its value - jump to spawn to check enemy positions, then jump back to beacon. That would require a lot of map reading skill but I really should give it a try sometime. But I can't see forefitting some dmg up or ink recovery up or swim speed, or spc charge for it.

Jumping to other squids....I will sometimes do it when I think they're in a good position and time is needed to regroup, but it's so rare there's a safe, reliable place to jump. I've super jumped at the wrong place and time enough to not chance it unless I absolutely need to! ;)

And I do think it's the latter, the paint the enemy base and work backwards approach. They can pat themselves on the back after they're splatted. It does occasionally work - but it's got to be one out of ever 8 matches or so. The must think they're so amazing making it all the way to the completely abandoned enemy spawn.

I see it in Flounder all the time. We'll take mid, secure our half. Things are looking good, we have the high ground. THEN they all decide to paint the enemy base and hold a camp while they're at it. Sometimes it does work. Usually I watch mid fall back into enemy hands so there's our color, their color, our color. It's an even trade of mid for enemy base. The problem is we now have a 2-front war, and once the team gets splated, the enemy's defensive line is now mid and they can fill in their base while they hold us in ours. Nobody is content holding mid - they seem to always want the enemy base.

Imagine WWII if instead of capturing the beachhead at Normandy, the Allies just made a straight line through Normandy and made a beeline straight for Berlin as fast as they could get there! I hope these squids don't play Fire Emblem..... ;)