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Is Splatoon fun anymore?

Discussion in 'Regular Discussion' started by Zansatsu, Apr 28, 2016.

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    A very good post, and a very true one. So many of the "problems" we currently experience in splatoon are effectively the result of the fact that everyone is "playing it wrong" - not that finding every exploit and way to get ahead isn't the way competitive games work, but it feels like, particularly in upper ranks ALL play is play outside the way the game was intended to be played and while it can be fun in its own way it almost feels like you're playing a ROM hack more than an actual polished game. Things don't work the way we should.

    Mostly, though, I still feel like a point Momo (uggh, can't tag her since her name here is in Kana), but credit to her for pointing this out all the same, the main problem is that the game's fatal (and unsolvable) design flaw from the start was that it plays too fast. Specifically it plays so fast that most weapons have a time to kill that's faster than the average latency of the internet connections it's being played on, resulting in nearly every weapon being ohko on the receiving end ,and so many unpredictable lag issues. The problem for the future is the Splatoon "brand" is how about hyper fact action, yet the reality is the game is designed for LAN conditions and didn't take real world internet (let alone global internet) into consideration and will never work properly at its current speed on real internet. And instead of slowing it down the patches keep speeding it up! I'm sure it plays very well in Japan... :rolleyes:

    Yeah, I've definitely seen things that aren't quite right that might be hacks, but due to the above speed issue, lag does a lot of really weird things in this game. As a matter of fact it's rare to the point of being impossible that in a trade situation that I did not kill my opponent long before they killed me. It's rare a dynamo hit doesn't kill me from the far fringe and increasingly so, most weapons that kill me aren't even pointing at me. You can't flank people if you don't know what direction they're actually shooting! I've seen many instances where I shoot, then I explode, THEN my opponent turns around and fires at me.

    And I'm not sure I've ever once seen a bubbler/kraken activate BEFORE I land a kill shot and hear the sound. It's always after while I'm standing there useless not understanding my dead opponent is not dead. And it's VERY rare that the kraken that kills me actually jumped at me. I leap over them or go around them and thing I avoided it, then I explode with no attack animation. I'd say it's my internet, and it surely could be, but my pings to the normal tests (speed test, google, etc) are all fine. I haven't gone wired yet, but my WiiU is like 3 feet from an enterprise grade wifi AP :rolleyes: Time of day probably plays into it.

    Way OT, but I think you're the first (ok, second) S+ I've seen that admits noticing the losing streaks where your team is incompetent. Any time that discussion comes up, there's the usual parade of S+ players that will declare they've never seen that, and when it happens it's their own fault, and only people not good enough blame their teammates :rolleyes: Which never addresses the very point you bring up: If the problem is the skill base is improving - why is it only the OTHER team's skillbase that seems to be improving when this happens? :D
     
  2. Brunosky_Inc

    Brunosky_Inc 57% Squid Kid / 43% Hipster

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    I've rarely have had issues to that level while playing Splatoon, and that's considering that I'm playing from Chile, the self-proclaimed buttcrack of the world. Chilean internet is awesome! :D

    Oh, I'm not trying to say I've never had severe streaks of own incompetence; in fact I dare say that the majority of my loses can be, at least in part, traced down to screw ups of my own.

    But yeah, to say that every single loss can't be blamed on incompetency from your buddies is simply wrong.
     
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    LOL, apparently so! I do think geography gets involved. On the US East Coast I'm about as far from asia as a data connection can get. And when I play, it's mostly Asia playing. In the BEST of circumstances my ping to Japan is 1/4 second behind. I don't know how bad it gets in bad situations but I'd say closer to a full second. That's where the game gets annoying is when you can't actually play the game you SEE - you have to play the game that MIGHT be happening, that you CAN'T see. I sometimes wonder if I'm really "not as good as S+" or if I were to play on connections were dead enemies don't kill me at least 4 times a match if I'd think "wow S+ is easy!" :p It always seems like other players have predictive abilities. But yeah, I mean krakens and bubblers, pretty much in every case "hit, hit, hit, (or roller slam on face) hit sound...they're still there, hit them again...hit sound...then "bling" and they're a kraken and I'm dead. Or I fling, they die, then a magic ink splash appears and kills me, THEN the kill icon appears that confirms I got them. This is all pretty much routine. If I play a close range weapon I have to assume that I will die at least 6 times in a match AFTER killing opponents. Also common is the gal or ttk (or even splash-o-matic) where I hear one or two of their shots hit me, I flee behind a wall, and the additional shots continue hitting me twice as fast after I'm behind the wall and I die.

    My favorite lag I see sometimes is an enemy is glowing for a bomb rush and showing bomb throw animations, but nothing happens. Then all of a sudden you hear 20 of the bomb throw sound play all at once and you see this huge cloud of bombs all land down all at once. I've only seen that like 4 times ever, but that's a weird one. And players microteleporting are quite common.

    It's not every player, or every lobby, but it's often enough that its an expected part of the game.

    I've been taking pictures of the stat screens for some of those streaks, the shots are priceless when for, like, 8 consecutive lobbies you're on the team were nobody touches the tower or inks the zone and your team all went 1/3, 4/12, etc, You go 9/8, you opponents mostly went 7/5, and the rounds were your team is similar but the opponent went like 18/2. It's always confusing when I hear "don't blame your teammates" - like, really, they died more than they killed and they didn't even ride the tower - I can't carry them much harder if I'm the only one alive! (or if I keep dying because I'm the only one near the objective) :) Just surprised to see someone in the ivory tower of S+ notice that happens :) (FWIW, I have 2 S accounts, and I don't claim to be an S+ in any way - no sour grapes on that one, just frustration that it happens :) )
     
  4. Brunosky_Inc

    Brunosky_Inc 57% Squid Kid / 43% Hipster

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    Ouch... Sounds miserable. The worst thing that happens to me enough to say it's not just caused by cases of freak potato conections is stuff like "One hit. Two hit. Now this third hit oughta do it." -hitsound followed by almost instant Bubbler- "Aw crap..."
     
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    Yeah, that's in line with the one I have with bubblers. Just a little speedier :)

    The teleporters are the nightmare though. Certain maps do it more. Bluefin Depot - I can't tell you how many times I've seen the same squid jump off the ledge, then jump off the ledge again, then jump off the ledge, and as I go in for the kill, he jumps of the ledge and kills me :p

    Or when you're shooting at a squid and they suddenly vanish. They kill you from behind because that's where they really were to begin with :) Or the more annoying one....you chase them down, then suddenly they're behind you, so you turn around to kill them only to get killed by them now being right where you thought they were to begin with. THose little "microteleportations" are the worst. They only moved half a foot to the side and back but it was enough. :rolleyes: Technically the worst of the lag seems to NOT be against the Japanese players, I just feel Im consistently part of a second behind whatever they're doing (because I am) the real derpy lag comes from somewhere else, though I'm unsure where.
     
  6. Flareth

    Flareth Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    Um... doesn't CoD also usually have extremely fast kill times? Yet I've never heard complaints about that series being too fast* for our internet speeds. If a CoD game is being played on the same paltry connections as Splatoon, then I don't see how that alone is the issue.

    Now I'll admit, perhaps at least the Splattershot/Octoshot/Wasabishot is a bit fast for its own good. I'd be fine with bringing it down to the N-ZAP's level, but I'll have to give it another whirl before making a final judgement call on that.
    *I have seen a few complaints about it possibly being too fast in general, but not anything related to connections.
     
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    The net connections is really the reason why it's too fast though. Other complaints about game speed being too fast would be simply about players that prefer games that don't require as fast a reaction time. But the internet latency issue is the thing that turns it into a possible mechanical problem with the game itself.

    I'm pretty sure Splatoon is the fastest shooter out there. And the weapons are getting faster! But one thing to keep in mind with Splatoon versus other fast games even if it could be argued it's as fast (the swim mechanic speeds things up substantially) is the server setup. COD has regional dedicated servers, so your latency to the central server located on a main internet switch somewhere is all that matters for your own experience. In Splatoon we not only have P2P hosting but we have GLOBAL P2P hosting, so your latency is a factor of your ping to Farkus in Des Moines, Yumi in Osaka, and Djurk in Iceland. All at once. In a game faster than the latency to ANY of them :)
     
  8. JuddTheCat

    JuddTheCat Inkling Cadet

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    The one thing I don't get about ranked is RIGHT when I hit A 50+, I start going into A+ rooms for of A+...I'm an A rank though, I get having a few A+, but not a full room of them when I'm one rank lower...I then lose until I hit -50...And the cycle goes on and on...

    The game just wants me to stay A rank or something?
     
  9. Jei-Cos

    Jei-Cos Full Squid

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    Sure because everyone is able to use their game systems in the same area as their router. Oh wait, no..they aren't..Just because YOU can get a wired connection doesn't mean everyone else can. Does no one understand that is the LITERAL point of WIFI? The entire point of having a WIFI function is because not everyone on the planet is able to have a wired connection. You wanna be the one to come to my house and put holes in the walls just to play a damn game? Yea me neither. I do not own this house. That means the owner makes those rules.

    People need to stop with the damn "get a wired connection" crap. it's getting old fast. it's your go to for any problem. The simple fact is I shouldn't HAVE to..The stupid console has a WIFI option.

    Sorry, I know I sounds really upset about it, but it'd be nice if that wasn't the go to answer from literally everyone else in this community..Sometimes the things one person is able to do, like playing in the same level of the house as the router so be able to make a wired connection, other's can't. No one on this site seems to get that..I've been told countless times as if wired connections were just magical things that every single person on teh planet are able to do.

    Also don't sit there and tell me there aren't any cheaters and hackers..That's just ridiculous. there are cheaters and hackers in every game.
     
  10. Brunosky_Inc

    Brunosky_Inc 57% Squid Kid / 43% Hipster

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    Well, yeah, but the ones in here so far have been a small community that has mostly kept to itself other that a few odd incidents that a lot of people knew about.

    What you described in that previous post are textbook cases of lag simply smacking you in the butt.
     
  11. Leronne

    Leronne Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    I never said there weren't any hackers and cheaters. My point was that not evrything should be blamed on hackers or cheaters. I never said that i myself am able to have a wired connection because i don't and i can't either. And i am so f*cking sorry for trying to give advice that would be somewhat helpful, really.
     
  12. Flareth

    Flareth Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    I did think about that, and I did consider the possibility that perhaps regional servers would go a long way towards alleviating the lag issue. But then I remembered that A) There probably aren't enough Splatoon regulars in each region to make dedicated regional servers worth it, and B) anecdotal evidence suggests that the lag in NA gets even worse during Splatfests, so perhaps they wouldn't really help at all.

    Meh. Maybe it's just because I've been stuck with FiOS for years, but I've not really experienced the horror stories that y'all have had. (Probably because I get disconnected before it can, haha.) If we ever get teamed up maybe then I'll see.
     
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    Yeah that's the whole set of two reasons they didn't set up regional servers. One not enough players in each region by FAR. Two: Nintendo's cheap, why spend the money if they don't have to? They're not interested in competitive play even slightly. C-rank TW is "the game" as far as they're concerned. And finally, every other company doing it charges monthly fees (or monthly fees disguised, thinly, as DLC) to run it. Datacenters don't pay for themselves.

    Yeah NA lag gets even worse but that's because we're P2P. Your lag would be constant and the result of your lag if your connection to the server were static. Other players would still be as laggy as they are, though the dedicated server code could handle it better because it would know who shot first and who lagged etc. But it doesn't remove player lag as an issue, no.

    There are definitely times where I'm pretty sure I've encountered hackers, but it's generally REALLY difficult to tell lag and hacks apart since the netcode in this game is so bad that lag yields similar effects as hacks more often than not (did the carbon roller that hit you from 20ft away in mid-air hack his roller, or was ye actually smacking you in the face with it as you sthot still and shot at the sky according to his screen?)
    You just can't tell.
     
  14. «◆Johηηγ◆»

    «◆Johηηγ◆» Full Squid

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    The game isn't fun anymore because people are taking the game too seriously ESPECIALLY the japanese players over seas.

    These pictures basically sum up what most people encounter online when it comes to the Japanese side of the community

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Also, if the messaging system on the Wii U's miiverse wasn't so bad, I could just PM my friends and make a private room and play there, but the messaging isn't formatted to be instant messaging, so it takes a long time to receive any messages at all.

    I remember I would get messages from people that were sent days apart from the time I first receive them, it was crazy.

    If people were able to communicate in an easier way, people would just avoid random matches and they would host/join rooms with their friends to avoid this problem, well.. that's at least what I would do.

    Barely anyone hosts rooms in Smash 4 or Splatoon, so you're practically forced into playing online with random people who MAY or MAY NOT be quote "MLG PRO" which is kind of annoying.

    DISCLAIMER: I have nothing against Japanese players, it's just most of them are TOO DAMN GOOD at this game, so don't argue with me that I'm being "Racist" because I'm not. That is, if you read my whole post...
     
    #54 «◆Johηηγ◆», Dec 13, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
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  15. kunoichi squid

    kunoichi squid Inkling Cadet

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    @: «◆Johηηγ◆»
    Your entire post sums up most of what I've been trying to say for quite some time now. I agree wholeheartedly! Thank you for putting into words what I could not say. It's an unfortunate turn of events, but it is what I have experienced and agree with!
     
    «◆Johηηγ◆» likes this.
  16. Creator438

    Creator438 Semi-Pro Squid

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    Omg THIS! I really hate this about these weapons! They come off as if they kill me in two shots, under the TINIEST bit of lag (like it seems it isn't even lagging), and when I kill those people with Tentatek, it takes four shots even in minimum range! This is an even bigger problem with N-Zaps. At least with Splattershots, it looks like you were killed in two shots but it feels like it happened in three. N-Zaps literally look and feel like 3-shot kills in the same context (Splashes, Duals, and Jets have this same issue). I feel like the weapon is almost busted under latency, because you know something's wrong when you're using Tentatek and an N-Zap flawlessly kills you without a scratch on him (in which case you don't even trade with the guy). I don't lag often, but it just goes to show how much impact the tiniest bit of lag can have in a game.
     
    #56 Creator438, Jan 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  17. Crimsoninkling

    Crimsoninkling Semi-Pro Squid

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    yes, but there are so many rollers & chargers everywhere.
     
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  18. HySquid

    HySquid Full Squid

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    preach.mp4
     
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  19. «◆Johηηγ◆»

    «◆Johηηγ◆» Full Squid

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    So what?
     
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  20. «◆Johηηγ◆»

    «◆Johηηγ◆» Full Squid

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    There is also the issue that people would hack, they used a program called "Splathax" which would let you customize your gear so that you could have any ability you wanted.

    It basically traces the IP of your Wii U and worms it's way into your game through it, I'm sure lots of people used this program (Which I'm sure does not work anymore) to get the insane or gear that you see online.

    Because I'm pretty damn sure if nobody could hack their gear, you wouldn't see THESE TYPES OF PEOPLE online all the time..
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Does this even need an explanation at this point? It's pretty obvious that hackers have ruined this seemingly innocent franchise with ability hacking.

    Way to go hackers for ruining everything nice in the world.
     
    #60 «◆Johηηγ◆», Jan 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017

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