Luna Blaster Neo: In Depth Weapon Analysis for my Next Video

[Creator438]

For anyone unaware, let me fill you in;
I'm currently let's playing Splatoon on my YouTube channel, and I'm targeting it towards... well, really every Splatoon player. Whether you're a competitive player, you're trying to jump into the online scene, or if you just like the game. My LP is meant to be for any and all Splatoon players.

For the competitive aspect of it, part of what I'm doing to give the community insight on the competitive side of the game is telling them what weapons I believe are good and bad, and why. I base these opinions off of my own feelings regarding the weapon without trying to be too biased (though I think I'm pretty good about avoiding bias when I say what weapons I think are good and bad), my own knowledge of the game's core mechanics and necessities to win a match, weapon matchups and comparisons (and how I believe certain weapons stack up against each other), and my (somewhat limited) knowledge of tournament play.

I'm trying to reach out to the competitive Splatoon community about Luna Neo's effectiveness in a competitive setting. This is because I'm using it in the next episode of the series, and I really don't have much on it in regard to my stance on the weapon.

I should mention that I think that Luna Neo is, at best, a mid-tier weapon. I do not believe that it's overpowered, broken, unbeatable, etc. as many people do, because the very idea is false, and I want the community to pick up on that from my analysis on the weapon. But again, I don't know much about WHY it is considered such.

My stance on it in terms of negatives is as follows: it has very little range, thus there are going to be many strong meta weapons that will easily take it down (much like what I said about Krak-On Roller, which I also did an analysis on) and it therefore needs to rely on flanking and swim strafing, which it won't always be able to do; in order to paint, it either needs to be getting picks or using Bomb Rush, which works well on it, but with a short ranged heavy depletion weapon that should expect to die a lot in a game, getting special doesn't come terribly often; and it has absolutely no way of fighitng its way out of a lockout, which means it's going to be very hard for it to come back as the Luna will have basically become useless at that point.

On the plus side though, I can say that: it has fast indirect and direct kills, making the "killing as painting" aspect of the weapon very reliable, not to mention that it punishes overextending like a beast because of that; it makes riding the tower in TC a death trap, and for that matter, if it's below you and shoots above itself twice, you're going to die; because it can play such an aggressive weapon that also finds itself dying a lot (due to its aggressive and in-your-face nature), you can run builds that either increase your survivability (more Defense, which is esp. good against other Blasters w/o Damage Up) or ones that play for trades to make your death in said trade irrelevant (QR+SJ); and finally, not only do your bombs give you the luxury of zoning that Vanilla Luna doesn't have easy access to, but your Bomb Rush lets you take back map control at a very fast rate, and if you're keeping the other team back, a Bomb Rush from a Luna Neo will allow your team to keep its momentum going such that there's nothing more the other team can do.

But that's all I've got. Is that good? Does that get the point across? What else do I need to add, if anything, to make my analysis complete? Are there inaccuracies in my analysis (surely it can't ALL be wrong :p )? If so, what are they?

Please give me some feedback. I want to give the community as much solid analysis as possible so that we have some decent guides out there!

EDIT: Great input to those who've responded so far! Greatly appreciate it! Anyone competitive players who stumble upon this, keep it going (whether you mention good or bad stuff about Luna Neo)!

 

[binx]

It's good, but mid-tier still seems a bit hard. It's not a weapon supposed to be flexible and do more or less evertyhing like a mid-range shooter. It's an aggressive weapon, and it does the job. Having a luna in the team brings a lot of dynamism, because the opponents always need to check if it's falling from the sky, hiding, or even flanking. When it kills someone, sure it's called out, but if you're too near you will find yourself wasting your special or trading, while the luna doesn't care much because of its respawn. And haunt is a real possibility...

Basically, it's the annoying weapon. The weapon breaking the opponent's rythm while creating chaos and opportunities for the mates. You're kinda forced to always think about the opponent's luna, while killing it makes you ok for 10 seconds at best. Or at least that's how I see it.

Some techniques you might have missed:
- As any blaster, variable range based on your moves.
- Combo bomb+shot possibility is real.
- A bit of damage up unlocks a 3HKO from a bomb rush instead of a 4HKO.
- Lunas like landforms, and falling in the middle of a 2HKO.

I believe my teammate Ceybau is one of the best Luna in EU, so you might be interested by his channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBWg7snlqR81RfstaqqhEzg/videos

PS: The range is actually kinda big, because of the huge explosion. If you go in the training area, you'll be amazed at how far it actually hurts, and it's still making 50% damage when you only graze your opponent.

PPS: Extermination is one of the best EU teams, and dominated for a while. Ext Kagutso plays luna neo on basically every map, and is making a great job and lots of kills (15-20 kills competitive is not that uncommon). But he doesn't record I believe.

 

[vanille987]

as already said. ^
the range may be short but the explosion has a pretty good range you need to look out for.
i still agree it gets outranged by lots of other weapons though.

i actually rarely used the weapon much myself but have experience with oppenents using it.
I find its a burst damage weapon, e.g. it can jump in the fray dealing huge damage but once spotted, it begins having trouble and will likely be splatted by aware players, also creating the not able to use special 'problem' as you mentioned.
Especially noticeable in TC.
also, while being weak to a long range weapons, you can still get a good splat with short range ones by using the lag between shots to your advantage.
one more thing i like to add, maybe obvious, echo locator/point sensor.... or the the blaster just being in a open area greatly reduces its effectiveness as it has a hard time getting a good attack in.

due to this, the tier it has greatly depends on the mode/map combination.
overall i agree its mid-tier in general though (again i rarely used it but it feels like that to my)
For the rest, i can't think of something to add.

 

[Creator438]

Hmm, yeah, I didn't somehow remember the fact about Luna's weird range as a result of its blast radius, even though I was aware of the fact haha. I have tested its range in the shooting range to see why it's still hitting me while I'm using Tentatek and standing in my effective range. It's some funky stuff...

The weapon breaking the opponent's rythm while creating chaos and opportunities for the mates. You're kinda forced to always think about the opponent's luna, while killing it makes you ok for 10 seconds at best.

Acutally, yeah, I can see why. B/c Luna Neo is such an aggressive mofo, and because it does kill people quickly, easily, and sometimes incontestably, it's going to be stopping teams from pushing, defending, supporting, etc. And that allows it to poke numerous holes in the other team's rhythm to such an extent that lets its team turn the tides of a match to land in said team's favor.

However, if we're looking at that, it then begs the question of how relevant that is to having map control, if the lack thereof makes it hard for the weapon to do things, etc. Obviously it's hard to do anything with a lack of control, but one of the things I don't really know all too well about the Luna Neo is how well it operates under a lack of map control. I would assume it can't really, yet at the same time I feel like it doesn't need too much map control in the neutral game to help the team get its ball rolling (i.e., if said neutral game lasts for a while, it could still get kills, harass players, etc.). One of the things I touched on in my analysis on the Krak-On was that if it's losing, it's going to do nothing; it doesn't ink turf quickly enough to get it up close to people (so it can kill them), it can't use its Beakons for the aggressive purpose that they serve on the weapon (I go more into detail on that in the video), and its Kraken wil only land in back into its spawn point after they waste it trying to go in and kill people who can swim around, hide, etc. freely without any care in the world. The big point I was trying to drive home in that video was the idea that a weapon can't be considered overpowered if, at any point in the game, it becomes completely useless. Or for that matter, top tier. I didn't say that Krak-On was bad, because it still has amazing things going for it and great tools to help its team secure a win, but rather I placed it in mid tier because I don't consider any weapon to break anywhere close to high-high tier (at the very least) if it can't do anything at any point in the game.

But of course, Krak-On and Luna Neo are very different weapons. Thus a lot of what's true for Krak-On Roller is definitely not true for Luna Neo.

 

[binx]

From what you're saying, it seems you're seeing flexibility as necessary to be a top-tier weapon. Like, luna is really awesome as an aggressive weapon, but you still want it to be able to take back map control and it’s not great for it.

First of all I'd say the luna is not that bad to turf (when you're safe). CRB for instance is worse off when you want to turf. Then, if you absolutely want to be useful in these kinds of situations, you can choose a build that will help, based on rush for example, with bomb range up and/or duration and/or special saver and/or charge up, and the common comeback is helping too. I would advise against it because my opinion is that it's not the role of the luna. I see it like this: luna will take some kind of risks, being able to trade quite easily, and even make a clean kill if it goes well. This will help the team to take back control. The other weapons will act more calmly, contesting turf from a far and building special.

Well basically, I don’t think a weapon should be able to do everything. Weapon kinda able to do anything will be tentatec and gals I guess… The proxy will trade their flexibility for some other strong points. And that’s the same for most weapons; you gain an advantage in some area, and then pay the price in another one. E-Liter is very good, but if you’re considering its ability to be efficient when the map is controlled by the opponent, then… You’ll still want your mates to turf it all.

To sum it up, in competitive, the teamplay should be taken into account. When the opponents have control, even if you take 4 weapons kinda useful to take it back, coordination is key. So it makes sense to have at least some kind of vague roles, and taking weapons which fit them. Then you can think about contesting map control starting with a special from your ally (let’s say another rush, or an echo, or a bubble). Shouldn’t be so impossible in these conditions. Basically you’re not alone, unlike in ranked (then again, luna is very easy in ranked).

And about the luna being completely useless, it’s actually very hard to make it happen. There are some maps where losing control will be annoying as hell for lunas, especially in zones (but every weapon have good or bad maps), but on some others it’s just not possible to prevent it to at least go at some dangerous corner where it could jump in at any moment.

Well anyway, I don’t know much about top-tier or such. I’m just defending the luna because I see it as a great aggressive weapon ^^

 

[vanille987]

without map control, the luna indeed has problems, its up to the other team members to create a opening or ink the area so the luna can take one itself.
on its very own, it'll be hard but some ideas.
-use special, possibly ink some floor to fill it up.
-if team is scattered, pick them by surprise, one-by-one.
-in general: utilize stealth/bombs and use cover alot if possibly.
though by the time luna menaged something on its own, the rest of your team already did somethimg better probably.
the luna schould stay in its original role unless you have a really bad team or weapon combinations.
imo without control, luna is better of filling up its special or threw bombs to help a bit out until a proper opening appears to possibly turn the tide for your team.

 

[Creator438]

From what you're saying, it seems you're seeing flexibility as necessary to be a top-tier weapon.

It sort of is when it gets right down to it. I mean, why are things like Tentatek, Dynamo, Hydra, Zimi, and other Splatlings top tier weapons? Because they have so much flexibility; they're great at killing/painting, they'll never become useless at any point during a match, they have extremely versatile/helpful kits (not only for themselves, but for their team, as well), and they cover their baseis very well because of that. They always have a place on a team because of that; you could point at a weapon like Hydra, Ttek, or Dynamo, and say "You know, I could get a lot out of this. Let's run it!" Now it's possible to look at CRB, 96 Deco, Splatterscope, etc., and say "well those weapons aren't very good at painting; how can one say they're flexible, and thus top tier?" These weapons are still top tier despite not being able to paint (96 Deco is arguable; I don't really know) because they have traits that make them flexible in different ways. You know, if you think about CRB, for example, yes it sucks at painting, but all it really needs is a little bit of map control to get its ball rolling (it's not as reliant as, say, a Krak-On Roller). If it finds itself losing because it doesn't have enough map control, it's still a long range 1-shot with no start up on the initial shot, it's still really good at slaying, it still has indirects to make its kills more reliable, and it still has Splat Bombs for getting people the hell out of a place. Now if it's losing, it can't do much, but it doesn't become useless. It still has the tools it needs to be effective, even in a lockout or losing situation (its Kraken is about the only thing that becomes useless on it, but CRBs thrive with Kraken by saving it for the perfect opportunity anyway, as opposed to going in with it).

First of all I'd say the luna is not that bad to turf (when you're safe). CRB for instance is worse off when you want to turf. Then, if you absolutely want to be useful in these kinds of situations, you can choose a build that will help, based on rush for example, with bomb range up and/or duration and/or special saver and/or charge up, and the common comeback is helping too. I would advise against it because my opinion is that it's not the role of the luna. I see it like this: luna will take some kind of risks, being able to trade quite easily, and even make a clean kill if it goes well. This will help the team to take back control. The other weapons will act more calmly, contesting turf from a far and building special.

Yeah, it wouldn't really be the most ideal thing. I mean, Bomb Range could work on Luna Neo (I have actually seen a max bomb range Luna on Moray, which was kind of funny XD), Duration Up isn't that useful b/c it's a 6 second special, Saver/Charge up aren't good on Luna not only for the fact that it has Heavy Depletion, but because it's going to die so much that these abilities sort of become irrelevant (and Luna isn't supposed to farm Bomb Rushes anyway).

Anyway, its kills will help its team get control, sure, but I feel like with Luna, you're going to find yourself engaging more so with front line fighters as opposed to going ham on everybody before being taken down, unless it flanks. The way I see it, in Splatoon, it's very hard to justify the effectiveness of flanking. This is not just because the flanker can get called out by the person who died to them, but also because on some map/mode combos, you either can't flank reliably or at all. Maps like Piranha pit come to mind for all game modes, you can't really flank on Hammerhead in Splat Zones (I believe), and don't even get me started on - *gasp* - Port Mackerel. Because of that, I feel like a Luna is probably going to find itself dying to somebody within the time it engages people without getting a wipe, and that's its impact on the flow of battle until it comes back. But it's very much like you said: the weapon's not going to be useful on every map, and because of that, team comps are going to want something different from a Luna Neo because it just plain won't get the job done (esp. considering what they may have to go up against, which is half the battle when considering weapons like Luna, Jr., etc.).

Well anyway, I don’t know much about top-tier or such. I’m just defending the luna because I see it as a great aggressive weapon ^^

Oh yeah, Luna Neo is a great aggressive weapon. It does major work in TC, gets quick kills, and if it's doing its thing really well and helping its team get that win in the process, you're going to have one hell of a time. The point I'm really trying to drive home is that the weapon isn't as overpowered as people make it out to be. It's a strong weapon, yes, but it still has weaknesses, and people don't think about them very much. Thus its only fair to assume that people who believe its overpowered consider it to be a top tier weapon. I feel as if players will observe a small number of people go like, 8-2 + with Luna Blaster Neo in Tower Control, and/or will get ****ed up by it a few times, and get mad because they're bad at fighting it. The fact that very few people in the community, at the very least, actually know how to take it down and don't have to complain about it shows what little info we have on its weaknesses.


That's why I'm trying to find weaknesses of this weapon so I can tell people that this weapon isn't a broken hair dryer without limits. If anyone knows some negatives, weaknesses, etc. of the Luna Neo, please share them. We need to let the community know that this weapon isn't unstoppable, and that there are weaknesses of this weapon that people can take advantage of.

 

[binx]

Well I feel like we don’t see the same thing when we talk about “flexibility”, because Dynamo would never come to my mind when I think of a flexible weapon. Nor would come Hydra. I’m even surprised you’re telling the Dynamo can’t be useless at any point, because you have actually a really hard time when your opponent has control and a good sniper (or even any other long range) basically securing a key point. And there are some maps just awful for the Dynamo.

About the builds I suggested on the Luna, even though I still say you’ll be better off not thinking so much about the possibility of being locked out, you’re saying they wouldn’t be good without trying them. I didn’t really play them too, but I can remember at least two times when I did. Once were in a no-respawn tournament and once were in private fun. So you can’t really take the results (I did very good) to a real game, but I can guarantee that a special-build *will* get you your special. I can’t see why the fact that it’s a 6 seconds makes special duration bad.

I mean, imagine the situation: there is a Luna rushing. It’s rushing from somewhere you can’t kill him (bomb range up), it’s rushing for a long time, and the bombs are gradually going further in your side. It can really be annoying. Come back with some special charge or saver will let you have your rush quite fast (it’s only 180 points). And remember the end of a rush actually fills the following rush. As a last point about rushes, most people surviving a rush will actually still take damage from it. If the rusher doesn’t have damage, he needs 4 weak explosions to kill you. Add a bit of damage, and it’s only 3 (unless you’re a defense-user). Take a long rush, and people *will* need to go back way more than usual, because you won’t have the usual possibility of taking it. It won’t be played because basically quick respawn and stealth jump are way too good for the weapon, you don’t need this kind of build… But if you’re worried about situations where the basic QRSJ strat won’t help you, this is definitely surprising and annoying too.

Well, a bit off topic there. But anyway, you’re accepting some “not really flexible weapon” as still top tier for some (explained) reasons, but then Neo Luna seems acceptable too. Still I’m not saying you should play Luna on Port SZ. Nor I would say “play a charger on Flounder SZ”. If you absolutely don’t want to change weapon then… Yeah, the very fact that one map is bad for your weapon forces you to change weapon on every map. But that’s kinda extreme.

About flanks, it’s still powerful, even if you’re called out. You just don’t play a ranked game flank in competitive – you know you’re called out, but the opponents suddenly need to care for their flank/back while still fighting in front of us. The flanker doesn’t need to take much more risk, just staying a bit there… Depending of the maps you might have some hellish camp points for the Luna. You gave Hammerhead as an example, but blasters are good on this map from my POV, and you don’t need a big flank, just to work with the obstacles of the map.

Anyway! Of course the weapon is flawed. Of course you can fight it. The main problems are the lack of flexibility (possible moves) and the lack of range (even though lots of people are definitely underestimating the range of this thing). Basically, to fight it, you need to play your range effectively (I’m assuming you have more than it). For a Tentatek for instance, it means playing at its very best distance. Any shorter and you’re taking a risk of trading with its 2HKO or combo, if you don’t kill it fast enough. It's possible to force it to shoot by feinting an approach too, reducing its moves even further and making it more predictible.

Else, it’s the same than any short range weapon. Be aware of such an opponent, check out the lurking possibilities (mainly with subs), keep your distance. Defense might help, and echo/sensors/poison are especially annoying for them. And maybe the important thing: be careful of stealth jumps. Pay attention at its respawn time, look at the sky, and make it pay.

PS: From my point of view it’s ok to have flaws as long as you have strong points too. Like how an E-Liter has a lot of flaws but is still good because of the very long OS possibilities, or how hydra and bad at close range and still good overall.