On Big Run Salt and Elitism

[TheEggoEffect]

TL;DR Competitive players aren't gatekeeping; we're just disappointed that, in our eyes, Nintendo trivialized a previously difficult accomplishment, removing its esteem in the process.

You've probably noticed by now that a lot of more competitive players aren't a fan of the golden Big Run score being a fixed 135 eggs. This has, understandably, caused a lot of uproar among casual players, calling it a classic case of elitism and competitive players taking all the fun out of what is supposed to be a lighthearted game about squid paintball. I want to address this issue from the perspective of a competitive player and explain why I personally dislike the 135-egg requirement.

For me (and probably a good number of skilled players), much of the fun in this game comes from is skill ceiling, how endlessly it can be optimized. This is true in PvP, where there's a constant drive to aim better, move better, and make better decisions, but it's especially true in Salmon Run. Learning and implementing all the little tricks to make your score that tiny bit higher - optimal special usage, when to lure bosses vs when to deal with them quickly, snatcher optimization - is something I've spent a ton of time doing, and the payoff of my 170-egg high score this Big Run is something I'm really proud of.

Although I'm mostly intrinsically motivated, I still want a way to show my hard work to other players, and posting clips on Discord or Reddit doesn't quite cut it; this is where Splashtag badges come in. Without a real way to share my high score with other players, badges provide the next best thing. I wear my Top 3000 X Rank and Top 5% Eggstra Work badges because I'm proud of being among the best that there is, and because these accomplishments were legitimately challenging. Top 3000 required me to consistently play well against the upper echelon of players, and the Eggstra Work badge required near-perfect planning and execution in a preset seed. Big Run used to be similar in that you still needed to be one of the best to get gold; the problem was that it bred unhealthy habits, spending half your weekend grinding and still not being sure you "won."

I definitely prefer the new system with the predetermined score; I just think it's too low. The current score for gold only requires you to get 45 eggs per wave. For people who spend a lot of time optimizing their Salmon Run play (like me!), this is trivial. A single fog wave, if played well, can easily net you more than half of the requirement. Under the new system, it feels like just about anybody in EVP (which itself isn't a huge accomplishment) can get 135 eggs with good enough luck and enough grinding. In the eyes of most competitive players, the cutoff being this low took a lot of prestige out of the gold Big Run badge. That's the real reason so many people are calling for a higher requirement for gold. We're not gatekeeping; we're just disappointed that, in our eyes, Nintendo trivialized a previously difficult accomplishment, removing its esteem in the process. The reward feels less meaningful for the amount of effort we put in.

Note that while I'm defending the competitive mindset, I am in no way defending the behavior of some of these "elitist" players. Belittling others just because you've put more time into improving than they have isn't going to solve anything.

 

[OnePotWonder]

Well said. Even though I didn't get gold this Big Run, I do agree that the requirements are a bit low.

I mean, think about what we're transitioning from; the top 5% of players achieving gold. In fact, these fixed values make for the lowest requirements out of any big run. The first big run had a gold score of 137, and the scores only went up with each passing season. I think people have forgotten, Nintendo included, that gold is not supposed to be achievable to the casual player. Gold is a cut above.

I mean, when you have the highest tier of rewards be accessible to everyone, what are the elite Salmon Runners supposed to aim for? Personally, I think scores of 90 / 120 / 150 would be a lot fairer.

Also, just a nitpick, but I don't think this needed to be posted twice.

 

[Suchi]

I do get why people are miffed about the big run rewards change but at the same time I get why Nintendo changed the system. 135 is still a pretty high score and not everyone who plays the game is eggVP. The game also still gives you your
percentile in splatnet, AND you have eggstra work which is way more competitive oriented. They could increase the high score threshold but I'm not playing big run for the locker reward that won't even fit in my locker. I will agree retroactively making the badge less valuable does suck though, and I have noticed some casuals act really entitled over things.

 

[Lisku]

yea, but I feel like its a bit unfair to more casual players because it used to be that the ONLY way to get the gold reward is to have a team. that kinda defeats the entire point. I think it should be higher but having to get 200+ eggs is just absurd.

 

[Alphine_Agnitio]

I think for this big run specifically it felt way too hard, most waves we struggled to get 30+ INTO the basket, but often had 40-50 eggs sitting around and unable to grab them efficently before time ran out(and I was playing with a full squad pretty much the whole run)

I do agree 131 is a bit low still though

 

[Lisku]

I think for this big run specifically it felt way too hard, most waves we struggled to get 30+ INTO the basket, but often had 40-50 eggs sitting around and unable to grab them efficently before time ran out(and I was playing with a full squad pretty much the whole run)

I do agree 131 is a bit low still though

that's exactly what happened to me

 

[Dessgeega]

No one's commented on the practical reasons for this change, namely that the playerbase is shrinking.

There's less and less people playing Splatoon. This is the case for any online game past it's first year. Heck, many experience a solid drop in player count after the first month. As time goes on, only the diehards will remain, and if the prizes are based on the players participating that means the requirements for each percentage will only go up with time. Eggstra work was 218 for gold last time, I would not be surprised if it goes higher in the future. Changing to a fixed score system was the only way to ensure what casuals that remain can have a good time with future big runs without feeling hopelessly outclassed.

Also, just to be purely cynical here, our opinions don't matter, hah. Nintendo puts the Japanese playerbase first, we've seen this time and again, and unless those folks start complaining loudly in addition to us, nothing's going to change.

 

[Egomouse]

I really like it because Eggstra Work is a much better event for pushing yourself. Big Run just feels like a casual event where you play for double scales and enjoy this limited time SR map. Salmon Run is supposed to be a cooperative mode and its kinda weird the event is competitive when its about saving the stages from Salmonids...

The blind system was terrible. Its so much funner to help friends out getting gold and stuff. I'm allowed to play with friends that aren't the best. I think its weird that Big Run was competitive in the first place. It feels like it should be more like Splatfest where you get rewarded for playing more, rather than high egg scores. Maybe total egg collected would make more sense for Big Run, like "I collected 333,333 eggs and now I'm on a leaderboard" as an extra thing for social media clout. Collect this amount of total eggs and you'll get gold, I would love that so much more. I barely played this Big Run, but I did get gold and 6 gold scales, which is nice.

I used Big Run to improve myself in Salmon Run and used it for milestones for improving myself. Now I have 999 badges and Eggstra Work badge and stickers. I think its nice Big Run helped me in that way, but the playerbase has been dropping and I'm not sure if Big Run still brings people into playing Salmon Run. I think it deterred people away when it was the blind system and the playerbase turned onto the overfishers. That was a terrible experience too. I feel like Big Run should be getting people interested in Salmon Run and then Eggstra Work can be the serious event.

Personally, I think they should've kept the top 5% gold badges and made new set gold badges because there's like 50 X rank badges, they didn't have issues keeping old X rank badges. They're still keeping track of top 5% and stuff so its not like they needed to reword the badge, just make a new one for a gold trophy badge. Then I can still use my gold Big Run badge to show off my accomplishment if I wanted to, instead of only my Eggstra Work or 999's or HLM badge.

 

[missingno]

I can see the issues with the system, and I could get behind changing it for Splatoon 4. But I think that changing it midway through Splatoon 3 isn't fair to everyone who earned their gold badge fair and square.

 

[Driftwood]

I kind of think the issue could be resolved by adding separate badge(s) for being in the top 5% (and maybe also for the top 1% and for something like the top 10 teams or something). It would then be similar to how the game awards a set of badges for reaching certain ranks in anarchy but then also gives harder to get badges for the various echelons of X rank. That way very high skilled individuals would get their (due imo) recognition, but more casual players won't feel as left out.

I think the reason the Big Run rewards have always caused so much ranchor is that the game makes a big fanfare about them, going so far as to mention them in the newscast. Because of this everyone who so much as turns on the game during Big Run is aware of them and way more people who feel the sense of loss for not getting them. This is opposed to pvp where I suspect most casual players aren't even aware of the existence of the X rank badges. And anyway if there are a second set of badges that are specifically label as being for very high skill players then I doubt most casual players will feel left out for not getting them even if they become aware of their existence (similar to how it is in pvp imo).

You can argue that people shouldn't be upset for not getting this or that badge but human nature seems to desire these kinds of markers....there is a reason achievements are so prevalent in games (and even been used to "gamify" other activities). But how people react to them tend to be greatly affected by how they are presented to them by the developers.

 

[OnePotWonder]

I can agree with the idea of reinstating a new top 5% Big Run badge. I'm fine with the current scores from a casual perspective, but at the same time highly skilled salmon runners should have something more to do than scale grind during a Big Run. We should cater to both demographics of player.

We have yet to see a Golden Egg badge, might be a good fit.

 

[Keiya]

I'm pretty sure Nintendo wants this to be achievable without voice chat or needing to understand any of the game's internal quirks. 45 every wave is already a pretty high bar under those conditions, especially if they're trying, as I suspect, to stop people feeling the need to poopsock to chase ever-higher scores.

 

[Lisku]

I'm pretty sure Nintendo wants this to be achievable without voice chat or needing to understand any of the game's internal quirks. 45 every wave is already a pretty high bar under those conditions, especially if they're trying, as I suspect, to stop people feeling the need to poopsock to chase ever-higher scores.

That is EXACTLY what i was thinking. I just don’t know how to word it