isaac4
Inkling Fleet Admiral
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2024
- Messages
- 725
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I started working on this thread around a week ago thinking that this would be a very quick process of deleting the less interesting and weaker subs and specials (shout-out to Wave Breaker). After that I could change the kits to make them more interesting as I felt that it didn't make sense that a single player mode like Side Order only had Fizzy and Crab on one weapon while Triple Inkstrike and Ink Mine were on two.
As I started working on it, I ended up learning more about the mode itself and my thoughts on the design of the Order kits changed.
I still believe that most of the kits should have been different (why does Order Stringer have the same kit as vanilla Tri-Stringer) but I've decided against taking away any of the subs and specials to prevent the mode from feeling more repetitive.
To answer the problem I had with some of the kit options being "too weak" or not feeling "impactful enough" to consider keeping for an entire run, I've made some changes that I think ends up helping with that. There's also two Order weapons that I felt that I needed to change for a different reason.
I'll list them all here before showing the Order kits I ended up deciding on.
Sub weapon changes
Last thing I want to mention is that I'll be listing my reasoning for the kits below. I've also taken the time to change the favored chip tones on most of the weapons so I'll add my reasoning for any chip tone changes as well.
Weapon background credit to @/Sirvee_ (Reddit)
Order Dualies
Order Brella
Order Shot
Order Roller
Order Charger
(No changes)
Order Stringer
Order Stamper
Order Slosher
Order Blaster
Order Brush
Order Splatling
Octo Shot
As I started working on it, I ended up learning more about the mode itself and my thoughts on the design of the Order kits changed.
I still believe that most of the kits should have been different (why does Order Stringer have the same kit as vanilla Tri-Stringer) but I've decided against taking away any of the subs and specials to prevent the mode from feeling more repetitive.
To answer the problem I had with some of the kit options being "too weak" or not feeling "impactful enough" to consider keeping for an entire run, I've made some changes that I think ends up helping with that. There's also two Order weapons that I felt that I needed to change for a different reason.
I'll list them all here before showing the Order kits I ended up deciding on.
Sub weapon changes
- Toxic Mist - jelletons become significantly more slower when traveling through Mist than before, Mist will now passively do small damage to any jelletons traveling through it
- Ink Storm - special charge cooldown is removed
- Killer Wail 5.1 - special charge cooldown is removed, damage done to jelletons is slightly increased
- Wave Breaker - special charge cooldown is removed, damage done to jelletons by each wave is significantly increased
- Order Shot - nerfed ink efficiency
- Octo Shot - nerfed ink efficiency
Last thing I want to mention is that I'll be listing my reasoning for the kits below. I've also taken the time to change the favored chip tones on most of the weapons so I'll add my reasoning for any chip tone changes as well.
Weapon background credit to @/Sirvee_ (Reddit)
Order Dualies
Even when I first started working on this thread, I was sure that I would keep the same kit for the Order Dualies with the only possible changes coming from the favored chip tones. As the first weapon a player has access to, it makes sense for the Order Dualies to have an easy sub for mobility and a simple special that can reliably kill jelletons around and in front of them.
What really convinced me to keep the same kit though were the mobility chips. The Order Dualies have two weapon-specific mobility chips that give it a dodge roll attack and extra dodge rolls but on top of that, they also improve Reefslider. For some reason, mobility wasn't one of the favored chip tones so I obviously had to change that. I also kept support as the second favored chip tone since it's really helpful for players that are just trying out Side Order for the first time.
It also does well for having multiple dodge rolls that can be used a lot more freely if a player has enough enough support chips equipped.
What really convinced me to keep the same kit though were the mobility chips. The Order Dualies have two weapon-specific mobility chips that give it a dodge roll attack and extra dodge rolls but on top of that, they also improve Reefslider. For some reason, mobility wasn't one of the favored chip tones so I obviously had to change that. I also kept support as the second favored chip tone since it's really helpful for players that are just trying out Side Order for the first time.
It also does well for having multiple dodge rolls that can be used a lot more freely if a player has enough enough support chips equipped.
There's not a lot I have to say for Order Brella.
I actually really like the kit they gave it, especially because the main and kit together play a lot more differently than the Order Dualies.
It gives some nice variety when you're starting out and unlocking new weapons to potentially take into a run. To help with this more passive playstyle, I decided to change the second favored chip tone to support.
I actually really like the kit they gave it, especially because the main and kit together play a lot more differently than the Order Dualies.
It gives some nice variety when you're starting out and unlocking new weapons to potentially take into a run. To help with this more passive playstyle, I decided to change the second favored chip tone to support.
Similar to Order Brella, I didn't do much for Order Shot outside of making the ink efficiency worse.
There wasn't any point in changing the kits but I did switch the favored chip tones as I wanted Order Stringer to have range/mobility instead
There wasn't any point in changing the kits but I did switch the favored chip tones as I wanted Order Stringer to have range/mobility instead
The only changes made were to the favored chip tones which were previously power/lucky. I do agree with Order Roller needing the power chips to be able to more easily handle jelletons with its poor fire rate and short range but there's also a few mobility chips that are specifically designed to help with rolling speed and knockback. There's also other mobility chips that help make Kraken Royale stronger.
(No changes)
Order Stringer
Changing this kit was one of my main reasons for starting this entire thread. In a mode that's supposed to be distinct from the regular pvp gameplay, giving the Order Stringer the same kit as vanilla Tri-Stringer made no sense to me. There doesn't need to be any restrictions for balancing so why repeat the same sub and special combination?
It also doesn't help that they're on the weaker end of subs and specials in Side Order.
Toxic Mist doesn't feel very impactful for the amount of ink it takes to throw one and its ability to slow down jelletons isn't something that's unique to the sub since you're able to use chips that slow down jelletons with your own ink while also doing passive damage on top of it. That's why I felt that I needed to improve the sub first if I was going to keep it around.
While I did consider changing the entire kit, I decided to keep Mist on Order Stringer since it fit better than most of the other weapons.
I also ended up giving it Crab Tank since I liked the idea of using Mist to slow down any approaching jelletons before popping Crab to either take care of them or another enemy that might be a bigger priority. Stamper already has Crab on its second kit as well so I wanted the special to be on another weapon.
Lastly, I switched the favored chip tones to range/mobility. I would have given it support or power but Order Charger and Blaster already have those and I wanted to keep it distinct by making it the more mobile, long ranged weapon. I think the devs might have had a similar idea but I don't like that they made mobility the main favored chip tone.
It also doesn't help that they're on the weaker end of subs and specials in Side Order.
Toxic Mist doesn't feel very impactful for the amount of ink it takes to throw one and its ability to slow down jelletons isn't something that's unique to the sub since you're able to use chips that slow down jelletons with your own ink while also doing passive damage on top of it. That's why I felt that I needed to improve the sub first if I was going to keep it around.
While I did consider changing the entire kit, I decided to keep Mist on Order Stringer since it fit better than most of the other weapons.
I also ended up giving it Crab Tank since I liked the idea of using Mist to slow down any approaching jelletons before popping Crab to either take care of them or another enemy that might be a bigger priority. Stamper already has Crab on its second kit as well so I wanted the special to be on another weapon.
Lastly, I switched the favored chip tones to range/mobility. I would have given it support or power but Order Charger and Blaster already have those and I wanted to keep it distinct by making it the more mobile, long ranged weapon. I think the devs might have had a similar idea but I don't like that they made mobility the main favored chip tone.
It's a bit funny that the weapon that comes right after Order Stringer which had the kit that I felt most confident in changing is Order Stamper which has my favorite order kit.
I made sure to keep the same sub and special on Order Stamper even if it made the process of making this thread harder than it had to be.
Regardless, the only changes I made were to the favored chip tones which used to be lucky/drone for some reason.
I changed them to power/range to make it easier to build your chips around the explosions and damage from both Fizzy and Crab.
I made sure to keep the same sub and special on Order Stamper even if it made the process of making this thread harder than it had to be.
Regardless, the only changes I made were to the favored chip tones which used to be lucky/drone for some reason.
I changed them to power/range to make it easier to build your chips around the explosions and damage from both Fizzy and Crab.
Despite this being one of the first kits I planned on changing, I didn't actually decide on what it would have until every other kit was finished. I knew Slosher would be easier to work with so I focused on what the other weapons should get first.
That's how I ended up with Killer Wail 5.1 on Order Slosher since none of the other kits had it but Fizzy was more of a personal choice. I knew I wanted it on a second weapon and originally that was going to be Order Stringer but that would have just created the same kit as Order Stamper so I decided to save Fizzy for later.
Once I knew I was going to give Killer Wail to Slosher, I saw the opportunity to reference the old vMachine kit before its special was changed to Booyah Bomb.
The favored chip tones were also determined by the kit change as there are support chips that increase the knockback of explosions and having better mobility would do good with the ability to use Fizzy as a paint trail.
Another personal reason but I do like improving the mobility on Order Slosher whenever I use it for a run so that did play a bit of a factor.
That's how I ended up with Killer Wail 5.1 on Order Slosher since none of the other kits had it but Fizzy was more of a personal choice. I knew I wanted it on a second weapon and originally that was going to be Order Stringer but that would have just created the same kit as Order Stamper so I decided to save Fizzy for later.
Once I knew I was going to give Killer Wail to Slosher, I saw the opportunity to reference the old vMachine kit before its special was changed to Booyah Bomb.
The favored chip tones were also determined by the kit change as there are support chips that increase the knockback of explosions and having better mobility would do good with the ability to use Fizzy as a paint trail.
Another personal reason but I do like improving the mobility on Order Slosher whenever I use it for a run so that did play a bit of a factor.
The Order Blaster kit went through a lot of changes before I ended up figuring out what I wanted for it.
I took out Wave Breaker but then added it back in after making the cooldown and damage adjustments. That didn't stay for long though and I ended up going with Suction/Ultra Stamp for the weapon kit.
Suction Bomb and Ultra Stamp both pair well with power chips and Ultra Stamp specifically helps Order Blaster with its extremely slow dps.
There also wasn't any reason to change the favored chip tones which makes me more confused on why the devs chose to give it Wave Breaker. There's a lot more I could say about why I really dislike Wave Breaker on Order Blaster but that would be getting too off topic.
I took out Wave Breaker but then added it back in after making the cooldown and damage adjustments. That didn't stay for long though and I ended up going with Suction/Ultra Stamp for the weapon kit.
Suction Bomb and Ultra Stamp both pair well with power chips and Ultra Stamp specifically helps Order Blaster with its extremely slow dps.
There also wasn't any reason to change the favored chip tones which makes me more confused on why the devs chose to give it Wave Breaker. There's a lot more I could say about why I really dislike Wave Breaker on Order Blaster but that would be getting too off topic.
Unlike the other weapons, my reasons for changing this kit weren't too complicated. I wanted Order Blaster to have Ultra Stamp and I was confident that Order Brush would be able to take advantage of Wave Breaker much better than the weapon it was on before.
I also wanted Sprinkler to be one of the few subs that gets to be on two kits instead of Ink Mine so I gave it to Brush.
There's a certain playstyle I saw from this combination of main, sub, and special with quick mobility and the ability to quickly weaken the jelletons surrounding the player as they move.
To add on top of that, I changed one of the favored chip tones to drone with the idea that Pearl would assist the player as they move around the map avoiding any enemies.
I also wanted Sprinkler to be one of the few subs that gets to be on two kits instead of Ink Mine so I gave it to Brush.
There's a certain playstyle I saw from this combination of main, sub, and special with quick mobility and the ability to quickly weaken the jelletons surrounding the player as they move.
To add on top of that, I changed one of the favored chip tones to drone with the idea that Pearl would assist the player as they move around the map avoiding any enemies.
This kit should have been finished a lot faster but I was having a difficult time deciding whether or not to keep Splash Wall.
I don't like it in Side Order and I'm confident on my belief that Splash Wall is the weakest sub in the entire mode but was that really enough of a reason to get rid of it?
After all, if a player doesn't like it they could just change the sub later on.
Obviously my concern on not making Side Order feel even more stale was what convinced me to keep Splash Wall. If any weapon was going to have it though, it was going to be the Order Splatling so I kept it there.
I also switched the order of the favored tone chips to support/drone so that there would be a higher chance of getting the weapon-specific chips such as Quick Charge and Midfire Charge.
I don't like it in Side Order and I'm confident on my belief that Splash Wall is the weakest sub in the entire mode but was that really enough of a reason to get rid of it?
After all, if a player doesn't like it they could just change the sub later on.
Obviously my concern on not making Side Order feel even more stale was what convinced me to keep Splash Wall. If any weapon was going to have it though, it was going to be the Order Splatling so I kept it there.
I also switched the order of the favored tone chips to support/drone so that there would be a higher chance of getting the weapon-specific chips such as Quick Charge and Midfire Charge.
I wasn't sure on what I wanted for Octo Shot since it's supposed to be biggest challenge of the entire mode.
The idea of purposely giving it a weaker sub and special came to mind but I decided that I still want the kit to feel good to use since it's the last weapon a player gets to unlock. I still ended up giving it a weaker sub though, with Burst Bomb replacing Splat Bomb.
This makes the kit more distinct from Order Shot while also making it a bit more of a challenge to use since Octo Shot doesn't get as much value from having Burst. That's especially true when talking about floors where the objective is to destroy portals.
It also happened to be a nice coincidence that vShot had the same kit in Splatoon 2.
Lastly, I noticed that none of the other weapons had their favored chip tones as lucky so I gave it to Octo Shot which I think is a good change to make the more useful mobility and support chips less likely to appear.
The idea of purposely giving it a weaker sub and special came to mind but I decided that I still want the kit to feel good to use since it's the last weapon a player gets to unlock. I still ended up giving it a weaker sub though, with Burst Bomb replacing Splat Bomb.
This makes the kit more distinct from Order Shot while also making it a bit more of a challenge to use since Octo Shot doesn't get as much value from having Burst. That's especially true when talking about floors where the objective is to destroy portals.
It also happened to be a nice coincidence that vShot had the same kit in Splatoon 2.
Lastly, I noticed that none of the other weapons had their favored chip tones as lucky so I gave it to Octo Shot which I think is a good change to make the more useful mobility and support chips less likely to appear.
