SCL Super Ultra Turbo Edition: 3rd Biweekly Tournament Friday October 2nd

[Ultramus]

...why are we 4th seed having won both previous SCL tournaments? O_O I would have assumed 1st, at least second, are we not currently the highest ranked team in SCL at Shark III or whatever?

 

[Aweshucks]

We're Taking other tournaments into account with the seeding, not just our own. We would have seeded you third, but we didn't want to make you play the other squid squad team round 3

 

[Flying_Tortoise]

Awe man that makes me cri evrtim. Hopefully we can compete next Tournament?

Don't worry with your team name. You've already won in spirit

 

[Ultramus]

Wait, so you mean to tell me that the SCL ranking, of which we are currently the highest, is not the basis by which you seed your own tournament? Has there ever been some indication that other tournaments were offering ranked points for SCL?

I'm not saying I really care, I'm fine with the bracket, but I fundamentally disagree with determining seedings arbitrarily based on how you feel each team stacks up based on recent results. If you are going to do this, do it right, assign ranked point values to each tournament divied up to 1st, 2nd, etc., that way you have a quantifiable running ranking system, basically how the ATP does it for tennis, do that.

Otherwise you will just be giving 1st seed to whomever won the last tourney, regardless of who they beat. If you are basing it off head to head, Spades beat us once, lost to TSB once, who lost to us once, Lol.

Better to have an actual ranking system that is empirical, we don't need to reinvent the wheel here. ATP and golf have good systems that we should emulate.

 

[Flying_Tortoise]

Wait, so you mean to tell me that the SCL ranking, of which we are currently the highest, is not the basis by which you seed your own tournament? Has there ever been some indication that other tournaments were offering ranked points for SCL?

I'm not saying I really care, I'm fine with the bracket, but I fundamentally disagree with determining seedings arbitrarily based on how you feel each team stacks up based on recent results. If you are going to do this, do it right, assign ranked point values to each tournament divied up to 1st, 2nd, etc., that way you have a quantifiable running ranking system, basically how the ATP does it for tennis, do that.

Otherwise you will just be giving 1st seed to whomever won the last tourney, regardless of who they beat. If you are basing it off head to head, Spades beat us once, lost to TSB once, who lost to us once, Lol.

Better to have an actual ranking system that is empirical, we don't need to reinvent the wheel here. ATP and golf have good systems that we should emulate.

Well there are several reasons why we decided against ATP. We did a lot of research and literally everyone in SCO agreed with an ELO-based ranking system. But I do agree with you why have a ranking system if you aren't going to use it for seeding. Well although not a great response please realize that we haven't had too many tournaments, so we feel it would be better to look at all tournaments recently to do a good job of seeding as some really good squads havent participated in our tourney. Again like I said it's not the best response, but once the ranking system gets more data, and is indicative of real skill level which it will (but will take longer because it is ELO), then it'll definitely be used for seeding.
TL:DR we would like more data.
edit: if you disagree with elo, let me just say no video game community uses atp. Smash does, but no one cares about looking at their ranking because it is just a buildup of points and not a current indicator of skill (there is a difference). All of the big eSports communities use elo or most likely some variation of it
edit2: plz no more discussion on ranking, as this is a signup thread. I just wanted to answer your question, but I may have gone overkill or perhaps not at all (idk, w/e floats your boat). If you still disagree with it, you can post in the SCL group page

 

[Aweshucks]

The SCL rankings are simply not at the point where they can be used for seeding. Not enough sets have been played to accurately show where a team is, skill-wise. As more and more ranked sets are played, the rankings will become more accurate.
Also, we aren't going to just ignore the results from other tournaments when doing seeding.

If we were to use SCL rankings, C- would be next to last despite placing 4th at both previous SCL tournaments and performing admirably at other tournaments. SS-S and NSTC aren't even ranked through SCL yet, so I don't even know how that would work.

Ideally I would like to use SCL Rankings for seeding, but as of right now that isn't viable

Not to mention that the SS-C team playing in this tournament and the teams playing in the previous ones only share two members

TL:DR

lmao

 

[Ultramus]

I'd be fine with ELO as well, if we all have ELOs then that's fine. It just seemed like there wasn't any sort of ranking system at all.

That said, I think you'll find a point based system that only factors in the most recent X tournaments a better method, especially with how volatile team rosters are. ELO works best for individual games, IMO, like chess and StarCraft.

 

[Fightersword]

yeah, member turnover is a real problem for accuracy. Even with member switching a team would normally still end up where it deserves to be over time. However, for this to happen, 2 things have to be true:

1. Member turnover has to be limited to an extent so that teams don't constantly change out rosters.
2. Enough games have to be played to adjust the team's ranking after the roster changes.

Note that neither of these things are required in games like Chess where it's simply one person. Admittedly, this is a shortcoming for team based games.

Many larger and more established competitive setups have ways around the above two things, with teams playing rather constantly and not having a ton of member turnover, with rules to ensure that. In SCL teams are changing up their rosters a lot quite often (frankly more often than I expected), which is allowed with the change cooldown of 10 days aside, and scrims aren't being played extremely often. This means that to an extent, teams aren't getting into their proper places, at least quickly enough. In many ways this is an issue.

The original idea to use ELO, in fact, came from DNE who has at this point been gone a long time. For now it seems appropriate enough, but there are specific issues here such as the ones mentioned above that detract from its usefulness.

 

[Fightersword]

Anyway guys, all discussion of ELO and its shortcomings and advantages aside, it's just about one hour till the tourney begins! Roll call will likely start a bit before that, so it always helps to be early! Discord server is here for anyone that doesn't wanna rush over to the OP: https://discordapp.com/channels/91314877666177024/91314877666177024

 

[Nair]

Updated my original post:

TL;DL (Too long, don't look):

Name: I can't believe it's not Boo.
IGN: SS-C Boo
NNID: BooTheBun

Name: Sitri
IGN: Frank
NNID: ------

 

[Demiose]

Aether would like to add 2 members please:

Member: @XenoPixel
IGN: Æ☆Zoey
NNID: XenoPixel

Member: @Judd
IGN: Æ☆John
NNID: GreatLordChrom13

 

[Aweshucks]

Updated my original post:

TL;DL (Too long, don't look):

Name: I can't believe it's not Boo.
IGN: SS-C Boo
NNID: BooTheBun

I already had Boo on the roster...

Aether would like to add 2 members please:

Member: @XenoPixel
IGN: Æ☆Zoey
NNID: XenoPixel

Member: @Judd
IGN: Æ☆John
NNID: GreatLordChrom13

got it

 

[Hitzel]

Here are some Squid Squad Clubs and Spades streams:

SPADES: http://www.kadgar.net/live/thatsrb2dude/lilsounddj/

CLUBS: http://kadgar.net/live/goldenwolf2/boothebun/hitzelburger/ssupermario92

SPADES AND CLUBS OMG (seriously, don't click this): http://kadgar.net/live/goldenwolf2/boothebun/hitzelburger/giantpanther/thatsrb2dude/lilsounddj/

 

[Fightersword]

http://www.twitch.tv/deltafixer IU water is also streaming at that link.

 

[Fightersword]

Tournament is now over. Epic final game and games in general guys. Results thread will be up soon. Thanks for playing!

 

[Aweshucks]

Congrats to Squid Squad Spades for the win