Spawning thought

[Nabbit]

I was watching a video of the test run and i saw that you can go directly towards the spawn point and just destroy because there is just one set point. I don't know if this is a problem or not but I'd like to see what others think about this. You could probably have 1 or 2 rollers cover the spawn point and take care of the enemies while the others focus on covering the map. Would this be a legit type of style of play in the game where you push to the opponents spawn point before they can get to yours to cover the map?

 

[Dr. Peace]

No, because there's a infinite health shield protecting the enemy team while they stay on their spawn point. You simply could not stay near enough without them gunning you down. Sure, you may be able to buy yourself a couple kills by staying near their spawn point but ultimately it'd be better to move away after a short time to go and cover more space.

 

[RayneTheSkunk]

In order for this to be dominating the enemy team must manage to somehow kill all 4 members at once and then manage to get enough of their players at the point to pin you down. If even one of your team mates is outside the spawn you can super jump to them, and start covering everything they missed because they are busy trying to spawn camp you.

This could only work in the situation where you have all four enemies stuck in their spawn, AND have at least 3 of your players to keep them pinned down. This is a highly unlikely situation overall, and your team was probably already hopeless if this has somehow happened.

 

[Pusha]

only having 1 spawn point on each map probably limits the variety of possible gametypes but it doesn't seem like there will be too many anyway. It does pose a problem of spawn trapping on maps like walleye warehouse though. If there is a miss-match in team strength its probably pretty likely we see some bad spawn traps on that map

 

[FunkyLobster]

spawncamping is difficult in this game because of the huge impenetrable barrier surrounding the spawn plate's general area, but you can keep the other team suppressed within that area for sure. honestly spawn camping is worse in tf2, because even though you have infinite health and ammo refills, you still have to go outside the door to fight. the only time spawn camping is an issue in that game is when youre in a 12v12 match and getting absolutely steam rolled and you have 4 or 5 snipers and pyros. and since splatoon is 4v4 and there's no classes, it's very easy to make a comeback even if there's a large skill disparity

also, having one static spawn point is going to help establish a rollout meta for maps as well as establishing a theme of map control, which leads to a higher skill ceiling than if you just spawned randomly throughout the map on set points

 

[Pusha]

spawncamping is difficult in this game because of the huge impenetrable barrier surrounding the spawn plate's general area, but you can keep the other team suppressed within that area for sure. honestly spawn camping is worse in tf2, because even though you have infinite health and ammo refills, you still have to go outside the door to fight. the only time spawn camping is an issue in that game is when youre in a 12v12 match and getting absolutely steam rolled and you have 4 or 5 snipers and pyros. and since splatoon is 4v4 and there's no classes, it's very easy to make a comeback even if there's a large skill disparity

also, having one static spawn point is going to help establish a rollout meta for maps as well as establishing a theme of map control, which leads to a higher skill ceiling than if you just spawned randomly throughout the map on set points

I can't agree with you on the skill ceiling point, or as I like to call it, skill gap. Having more spawn points increases skill gap by quite a bit. You don't spawn randomly, it is based on where the enemy team is located. A big part of a lot of shooters is learning how to understand the spawn system so that you can predict and manipulate where the enemy team will spawn. Obviously that won't be the case in splatoon since there is only one spawn point, but in shooters like CoD or halo, knowing where the team will spawn and knowing how to make them spawn somewhere is key. Its a lot easier to keep a team in a spawn trap when there's only one available spawn point.

And yeah that's what i meant about spawn trapping, you can't obviously kill them right away on respawn but as soon as they exit their spawn zone they can be killed and if you have the whole team on respawn its very difficult to break out of that

 

[FunkyLobster]

I can't agree with you on the skill ceiling point, or as I like to call it, skill gap. Having more spawn points increases skill gap by quite a bit. You don't spawn randomly, it is based on where the enemy team is located. A big part of a lot of shooters is learning how to understand the spawn system so that you can predict and manipulate where the enemy team will spawn. Obviously that won't be the case in splatoon since there is only one spawn point, but in shooters like CoD or halo, knowing where the team will spawn and knowing how to make them spawn somewhere is key. Its a lot easier to keep a team in a spawn trap when there's only one available spawn point.

ah, that's actually a really good point

however i do think that having one set spawn point in splatoon is better than having something similar to cod or halo where you spawn in set points on the map, since it means you have a meta for getting to the firefight as fast as possible and map control is more emphasized (even if its easier)

 

[Pusha]

ah, that's actually a really good point

however i do think that having one set spawn point in splatoon is better than having something similar to cod or halo where you spawn in set points on the map, since it means you have a meta for getting to the firefight as fast as possible and map control is more emphasized (even if its easier)

I don't think having only one spawn point is terrible or anything, just different. I think it definitely hinders the variety of gametypes (example a capture the flag game type wouldn't work the greatest with one spawn i dont think) and i think it may open up easier opportunities for spawn trapping but overall with evenly matched teams it's not a huge deal.

I don't think have one spawn point necessarily promotes map control since map control is necessary even with multiple spawn points. Really for any shooter, controlling the map is key.

 

[RayneTheSkunk]

Okay so hypothetically all four of your team at are at the spawn, and at least 3 of the enemy is in front of you keeping pressure. In the case of Wall Eye Warehouse (which is why I'm assuming you're bringing this up) it is difficult to fight them because they can go down the slope.

In this situation I find it hard to believe that at least one of your team mades doesn't have a grenade of some sort. Since the spawn point has endless ink you can throw a grenade of some sort at the enemy and that will force them to scatter and they are out numbered which makes this an opportunity to fight them. or run away.

However I do not believe this hypothetical scenario will happen often. All 4 of you would have to be killed in a very short time, and then at least one enemy would have to be at your spawn for 2 more to jump to that player.

 

[Pusha]

Okay so hypothetically all four of your team at are at the spawn, and at least 3 of the enemy is in front of you keeping pressure. In the case of Wall Eye Warehouse (which is why I'm assuming you're bringing this up) it is difficult to fight them because they can go down the slope.

In this situation I find it hard to believe that at least one of your team mades doesn't have a grenade of some sort. Since the spawn point has endless ink you can throw a grenade of some sort at the enemy and that will force them to scatter and they are out numbered which makes this an opportunity to fight them. or run away.

However I do not believe this hypothetical scenario will happen often. All 4 of you would have to be killed in a very short time, and then at least one enemy would have to be at your spawn for 2 more to jump to that player.

Grenades don't seem to be that powerful in this game, nor do they seem to have a large radius for splash damage (although i haven't played that much maybe im wrong) but either way, its not like one grenade will scatter a whole team. Being in a spawn trap is tough to get out of. It's not impossible by any means and with a full team you will eventually get out but it's still a difficult situation and it appears as though it would come easier in Splatoon than in other shooters since you don't have to predict the enemies spawn and there's no chance of a split spawn (where some teammates spawn at one location and others spawn elsewhere).

A good team with good communication can kill all 4 enemies. It happens in all shooters and it will happen in Splatoon also. Knowing how many enemies are dead is a good indication of when to go for objectives. In a capture the flag game you should only go for a flag when 3 or 4 are respawning, In a moba you can attack an objective when 3 or 4 are respawning, In splatoon you can cover large areas of turf, or take the hill in KOTH when 3 or 4 are respawning. (Im not saying you can only do those things when enemies are dead, but those are the most opportune moments).

 

[FunkyLobster]

Grenades don't seem to be that powerful in this game, nor do they seem to have a large radius for splash damage (although i haven't played that much maybe im wrong) but either way, its not like one grenade will scatter a whole team.

this is actually completely wrong, default grenades (not the splat grenades splattershots had in the testfire) have a very wide radius the size of most gaps between walls and are a one hit kill. they're amazing area denial tools and force the players caught in them to give up territory or move up unsafely into yours.

but i definitely agree with your point that good team synergy and communication in competitive play will be the most deadly thing in this game

 

[Pusha]

this is actually completely wrong, default grenades (not the splat grenades splattershots had in the testfire) have a very wide radius the size of most gaps between walls and are a one hit kill. they're amazing area denial tools and force the players caught in them to give up territory or move up unsafely into yours.

Oh gotchya, good to know, thanks.

 

[Gsnap]

this is actually completely wrong, default grenades (not the splat grenades splattershots had in the testfire) have a very wide radius the size of most gaps between walls and are a one hit kill. they're amazing area denial tools and force the players caught in them to give up territory or move up unsafely into yours.

but i definitely agree with your point that good team synergy and communication in competitive play will be the most deadly thing in this game

Not to mention grenades are not your only possible subweapon.

I could see the bombchu-like subweapon being very good at helping teams get out of spawn-camping scenarios.

 

[RayneTheSkunk]

When I said "some sort of grenade" I was including all explosive subweapons. In a match where you are paired with all randoms it would be unlikely that all 4 of you have a non explosive subweapon. Its entirely possible, but I don't think its likely.

Also based on what we've seen of the different maps. This should only be a issue on Wall Eye Ware house which has the ramp in front of the spawn the enemy can take cover behind. The other maps seem to lack anything like this, so since the spawn is shielded taking out the enemy from within it shouldn't bee too difficult.

 

[Pusha]

When I said "some sort of grenade" I was including all explosive subweapons. In a match where you are paired with all randoms it would be unlikely that all 4 of you have a non explosive subweapon. Its entirely possible, but I don't think its likely.

Also based on what we've seen of the different maps. This should only be a issue on Wall Eye Ware house which has the ramp in front of the spawn the enemy can take cover behind. The other maps seem to lack anything like this, so since the spawn is shielded taking out the enemy from within it shouldn't bee too difficult.

Spawn trapping can be done on any map where a team has access to the enemy teams spawn. Saltspray rig is an example of a map where they dont have access, but walleye and blackbelly skate park are examples where they do.

 

[RayneTheSkunk]

But the thing is that the spawn point is shielded. The trap can only last so long. You can shoot at them but they can't really shoot at you. Its dis-advantageous of them because they are now focused on keeping you locked down instead of covering the map. and again this is only possible if all 4 members of a team are at the spawn. So that's four players in a shield that they can shoot you from but you can't shoot them from. The ones spawn trapping have no cover unluss one of them has a sprinkler shield.

A true spawn trap on any map other than Wall Eye because its so small AND has a natural sheild for the spawn trapping team would require. 1: Some how managing to get all four team mates in the spawn at once, so you'd have to kill them at roughly the same time. 2, Having a team mate waiting at the spawn so he can be jumped to. 3: a Srinkler shield to protect them from your fire.

Please inform me if I'm missing something, because this is a lot of effort and cordination to just for keeping the enemy in their spawn. Coordination that is based on the lucky chance you kill all four players at the same time.

 

[Pusha]

But the thing is that the spawn point is shielded. The trap can only last so long. You can shoot at them but they can't really shoot at you. Its dis-advantageous of them because they are now focused on keeping you locked down instead of covering the map. and again this is only possible if all 4 members of a team are at the spawn. So that's four players in a shield that they can shoot you from but you can't shoot them from. The ones spawn trapping have no cover unluss one of them has a sprinkler shield.

A true spawn trap on any map other than Wall Eye because its so small AND has a natural sheild for the spawn trapping team would require. 1: Some how managing to get all four team mates in the spawn at once, so you'd have to kill them at roughly the same time. 2, Having a team mate waiting at the spawn so he can be jumped to. 3: a Srinkler shield to protect them from your fire.

Please inform me if I'm missing something, because this is a lot of effort and cordination to just for keeping the enemy in their spawn. Coordination that is based on the lucky chance you kill all four players at the same time.

You don't have to be right next to the spawn to spawn trap, you just need to be in the general area. Being close enough that they can utilize the shield is a mistake. Let them come to you, you know where they're coming from, change positions after getting kills. Thats how you spawn trap. not just by standing there and shooting as they respawn.

 

[RespawningJesus]

If you think people will spawn trap you at the shields of your spawn, you are in for a rude awakening.

Also, in the test fire, people only have access to 4 weapon sets. So out of the 4, you had 1 that is nearly useless for pushing back a trap (Roller,) two of them that are okay for it (Shooters,) and one that is great at punching a hole through their trap. (Charger.) In reality, you just need to send one or two of the trapping team to spawn to push them out effectively, or to give that one teammate to push out of spawn, letting your team jump to their location..

In the full game, there will be a greater variety of weapons and sub weapons that can push back a trap more effectively. Not only that, but people will also gain experience with the game in general, so spawn traps could be pushed out with extreme ease, and will not be an issue. so long as your team doesn't end up with 4 rollers.

 

[Flammie]

You don't have to be right next to the spawn to spawn trap, you just need to be in the general area. Being close enough that they can utilize the shield is a mistake. Let them come to you, you know where they're coming from, change positions after getting kills. Thats how you spawn trap. not just by standing there and shooting as they respawn.

Having the echo locating gears and sub/special weapons would be pretty good idea to have to see when trying to ward the enemy off from the rest of the entire stage, haunting and stalking the enemy team to hinder their progress is very risky but much rewarding if you can hold off many of them at the same time, or as much as needed to have your team fill up the rest of the turf.

 

[Pusha]

Having the echo locating gears and sub/special weapons would be pretty good idea to have to see when trying to ward the enemy off from the rest of the entire stage, haunting and stalking the enemy team to hinder their progress is very risky but much rewarding if you can hold off many of them at the same time, or as much as needed to have your team fill up the rest of the turf.

I'm not saying spawn traps are impossible to get out of, they are very possible, but to just dismiss them and say "oh it's gonna be easy with gear" is a bit much. Don't forget the team that's sets up the trap could have specials too, and they always have the advantage because they know exactly where the other team is coming from. There's a spawn trap in Black Ops 2 where you can pick people off as they exit their spawn, and even though they know exactly where you'll be, you still have the advantage and will often get 3 or 4 more kills, enough to get a flag in CTF before dying. Sometimes you can even trap them for up to 30 seconds. I'm just pointing out that, by only having one spawn point it makes spawn trapping very easy since no spawn manipulating or predicting is needed. Yes, teams will be able to get out of a spawn trap, of course they will. But in the time the enemy team was able to kill all 4 and then kill 3 or 4 again of respawn, either a lot of hill time or a lot of ground was lost