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Supportive Roles and Ranked Mode

Discussion in 'Regular Discussion' started by dylan_not_bob, Jun 4, 2016.

  1. dylan_not_bob

    dylan_not_bob Stardust Crusquider

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    Awesome, I'll see what I can hash out!
     
  2. SupaTim

    SupaTim Prodigal Squid

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    Here is an example of some of Hitzel's high level Zimi play:


    And this is a bit old, but still relevant for the L-3. This is ThatSrb2DUDE, another top level player. HOWEVER, he doesn't really use the disruptor and it is all in turf war. Nevertheless, this might help you figure out spacing and movement with the nozzlenose.
     
    #22 SupaTim, Jun 19, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016
    Maave likes this.
  3. dylan_not_bob

    dylan_not_bob Stardust Crusquider

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    Sweet, thanks!
     
  4. Edgy Page

    Edgy Page Inkling

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    I don't know if playing to objective is classified as playing support but it feels like it. As a jr., I know that my k/d is going to be trash almost always because that weapon can't shoot straight so I always play to objective. I start bubble huddles near choke points in TC, I use splat bombs and my conical ink coverage to capture zones fast, and in RM I don't run jr.! The neo-sploosh is my go to for support in RM as you can mark enemies with point sensors and steal wins with kraken.

    Here's a breakdown of ways I play support/objective by mode:

    TC: Charge your bubbler. It is essential to keep your bubbler charged. Essential. Not an option. Get there however you like, special charge up, special saver, whatever, but that bubbler NEEDS to be charged by the time you or your team member gets to the choke point. Once that happens, start up the bubble huddle. It's cheap and it works. You're going to want to stick close to tower and use it as mobile cover since you lack the effective range of a mid-range weapon. Hop on tower as soon as you feel like the momentum is in your favor OR if you feel like you can generate momentum by moving the tower. That second part is very important since you said you want to play support. Very few things are more supportive than making the entire enemy team focus on one location. Don't push recklessly but don't be afraid to be the center of attention. If you see that your team is locked up in engagements across the map then pushing the tower will encourage the enemy team to turn their backs to deal with you. Since you play with disruptors, I'll assume you know how to toss bombs. Good. That's very important with vanilla jr. Use bombs to charge your special faster, cover enemy turf, and bomb advancing towers. You might be better with aiming with jr. but I know that I get almost half my splats, if not more, with splat bombs. It's a great tool so try to use it as much as possible since a jr. doesn't really need a full tank to cover turf or confirm kills. Be smart with your special, be aggressive with the objective, and never miss a bomb on to the tower.

    SZ: Here is where the jr. really shines. The most support thing you can do in this mode is cover zones because you'll probably be the one who can do it best. Use your splat bombs and your conical spray to capture zones. Throwing a bomb past your turf coverage range and shooting directly after can stop the timer on some larger zones in the time it takes for the fuse to blow while capturing most smaller zones without you having to shoot for longer than a second or two. Remember that you're a jr so your effective kill range is trash, garbage, a joke I tell small children. The less time that you have to expose yourself to long range weapons while capturing the zones, the better. Use your bombs to cover turf and charge special while not overextending. If you see a weapon on your team that can be locked out of the match like a hydra or an e-liter then try to be aware of them. They may need help to get in to an effective spot so give it to them if they're getting flanked; cut off flanking lanes for your opponents while using bombs to extend your effective turf coverage range. Some of the larger maps have areas that go unused in SZ, use them to charge special. Bubble huddles aren't super useful in SZ unless you're flanking or defending a point. Also, run speed up helps cover awkward zones zones juuust that little bit faster to get the capture synchronized with your bomb fuse. Look in to run speed up or sub saver to help cover zones faster. Ink recovery is also a good option if you plan on camping a zone as it lets you get more bombs out faster. Let your team support your captures, help your team advance with bubbler assisted flanks and general turf coverage, use your bombs and conical spray to capture zones or stop timers.

    RM: Don't run jr. Don't run jr. Don't run jr. Don't run jr. Don't run jr. Your signature says you want to learn sploosh? Good. Run speed-neo-sploosh. You need the speed to support your turf covering flank runs, your kraken's swim speed, and with rainmaker running. Point sensors help in marking your opponents for your kraken and your team mates. Nothing gets the attention of your team mates quite like marked opponents so it's a good way to support your team. With speed, you can also be the rainmaker runner if no one on your team is grabbing it. Ink resistance helps with rainmaker pushes because you can jump and skip past most minor obstacles so I'd recommend it. If you're not holding the rainmaker, then you should be flanking to support the rainmaker push while charging your kraken. This is the one mode where my support/objective play can reliably get a positive k/d with a short range weapon. Most enemies that you mark will be out of your range so you need to remember that you aren't marking them necessarily for your own benefit, you're marking them for your team's benefit, so remember to use them for others as well as for yourself. OH. And you have to get up in people's faces to get splats with the sploosh so just pretend you're using a jr. with a kill range that matches your turf coverage unlike the jr.'s. There isn't much more to say about this except that you need to remember to use your point sensors and hold on to your kraken, don't overextend with it. Mark your enemies, flank your enemies, create opportunities for rainmaker pushes.

    Wow. That was a lot more than I was expecting to write. Anyways, the gist of my post is that I think you need to reorient your support play style to a more focused objective based play style. I outlined what I do in each mode with weapons that you ought to feel familiar with so I hope that helps.
     
  5. BlackZero

    BlackZero Inkling Commander

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    TC was made for Chargers: you have both a predictable travel path and little room to dodge. Rainmaker isn't too bad for them. Splatlings do well in Splatzones, especially the Hydra. Depending on the map, a single Heavy Splat/Hydra can hold the enemy team off indefinitely. That's true for the other modes, but they can take an SZ really quickly too. I was able to hold both SZs in Flounder Heights once for most of the round because the Heavy could cover both of them, kill anyone who approached pretty fast, and had a splash wall to save you if you got rushed. Sometimes, the best thing you can do is hold a forward position for your teammates to jump to and let them do all the heroic stuff.

     
    Ansible likes this.
  6. Hitzel

    Hitzel Inkling Commander

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    @SweetBippy Hey whatsup. I'm Hitzel, the guy from the Zimi video.

    I don't mind giving you some advice, but let me start off saying that playing a support role isn't really meant for solo queue (Ranked Mode). Things won't always work because they generally require coordination and synergy with teammates and that's something you simply can't rely on in solo queue. It's up to you to not get upset by failure and be able to judge how well you're actually doing separate from what the game's result is. Simply put, just have fun and learn.

    Being a support player means making your team better and making the other team worse, and doing it in a way that doesn't stop you from carrying your weight.

    I'm going to tell you right now that you are going to have a lot of trouble doing this with the vanilla Inkbrush if you want to do it in solo queue or outside of Turf War in general. I am going to give you some ideas for using the Permanent Inkbrush as a support weapon in solo queue, because of the Innkbrushes I think it has the kit to be a support weapon in a solo queue environment, and it's the only Inkbrush that I actually have faith in being able to carry it's weight.

    I think that the permanent Inkbrush can pull off the double Splat Bomb build or something close to it. This means one of two builds (Just go for B if you don't gear edit.):

    A - exactly 3 mains and 2 subs of Ink Saver Sub, and as much Ink Recovery subs as possibly and maybe a few subs of Bomb Range (3 or less).

    B - As much Ink Saver Sub and Ink Recovery as possible with a few subs of Bomb Range.

    I know I am biased to bombs being used for a supportive role but I actually do believe that the build is viable.

    The problem with the vanilla Inkbrush is that it's great for Turf War because you can avoid the enemy and paint where the enemy isn't currently looking, but in Ranked Modes you HAVE to be able to confront the enemy directly. The Permanent Inkbrush is able to spam Splat Bombs to control space and help teammates get easier kills, all while building up Kraken and being able to turf uncontested ground quickly. Once you have Kraken, you can make plays on the objective or go for flanks by cutting through enemy ink.

    The most important thing about playing a support role in solo queue is making sure your teammates understand what you are doing. This is key! Pick a teammate with a good slaying weapon. Give them a little squidbag and a booyah, follow them around at the start of the match, and spam Splat Bombs at whoever they try to fight without getting yourself killed and watch his back. Don't follow them around all game, but do some of this with each teammate so they understand what you are doing, and be sure to come back and remind them over time. This lets your teammates know "Hey, this guy is going to support me with this bomb strategy, now I can make decisions based on that and work with him." Being a supportive player is useless if your team doesn't take advantage of it, and this is how you get your team to take advantage of it in solo queue.

    In general remember to stay alive, and outside of showing a teammate "Hey look, I can throw 2 splat bombs!" you generally never want to throw 2 bombs aside from situations where throwing two bombs is going to accomplish something (and I'm assuming you don't gear edit, so you probably won't be doing it anyway). What you want to do is gradually throw your bombs over time, never letting your tank fill all the way up. There's a little "WHOOP!" sound when you get enough ink to throw a bomb, your ink tank flashes white, and a red light glows on your back. Use that to know when you can throw a bomb, and whenever possible, find opportunities to wait a little bit longer to throw another bomb so that you can build up extra ink for when you need it. This will allow you to output a steady spam of Splat Bombs over time without being on empty too much. Throw them in choke points where they really can't be avoided, or throw them at enemies who are trying to fight a teammate. Control space for your team and make it unfair for the enemy team when they try to get kills by placing Splat Bombs at their feet.

    Maybe most importantly, don't forget that you need to spring into action at the right times, you can't be too passive! When you see opportunities to get aggressive, or sometimes when you simply have Kraken, you need to be able to shift gears into "Kill Mode." You also need to be able to punish people who try to come stop you from throwing bombs ─ when people try to flank you or a teammate, punish them by hiding in ink and jumping out at them in an unexpected way. Being able to get these kills will compliment your spacial control and firefight support with good old fashioned kills that take advantage of the Inkbrushes short range, in addition to making critical Kraken plays.

    Hopefully this helps you to get some ideas of how to use the Permanent Inkbrush as a support weapon. Have fun!
     
    #26 Hitzel, Jun 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
  7. PyrexO2

    PyrexO2 Senior Squid

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    Mate i think the problem with your support might have to do with the game mode your playing. Although inking turf is generally important on all game modes, some modes benefit more than others. Take tower control for example, your main focus is to get the tower from point A to B while still defending and trying to keep the lead. However spraying ink is still important to gain control over the map.

    Even things such as spreading ink to easily transport the rainmaker is still beneficial to the team.

    What I'm trying to say is that support in rank doesn't usually boil down to one thing, but rather separates and branches off into little separate things.
     
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  8. dylan_not_bob

    dylan_not_bob Stardust Crusquider

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    Hey man,

    Thanks a lot. This is great. Loved the Zimi vid, definitely got some major learning points from it as well.

    Would this build be different if I did want to learn to be more aggressive with the Permanent Inkbrush? I.E. Would you still focus on bomb range or add any damage up etc.? Also, I most likely will try to gear edit. I tried gear editing with Zimi (it was a lot different than what you had in the video, but I'll probably try something closer to what you had) before going back to Inkbrush.
     
  9. Hitzel

    Hitzel Inkling Commander

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    I'm honestly not the best person to ask, but I know Silver still uses sub saver on his aggro Brush builds (he's really not a support player at all) and iirc he uses ink resist.
     
  10. Airi

    Airi Inkling Commander

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    If you're looking to become more aggressive with the Permanent Inkbrush, I would really recommend using Ink Resistance above all else. When you're acting more aggressive, you will discover that you'll be rolling with the brush much more often to escape enemy attacks or using mind tricks to subdue them. Ink Resistance makes it much easier to play around with and escape your enemy when you're trying to be more aggressive with the Permanent Inkbrush.

    Besides Ink Resistance, Swim Speed and Special Charge can be useful for a more aggressive approach as you'll be relying on your Kraken fairly often for the kills. So I would recommend considering investing in some Swim Speed and Special Charge. Really... Most of being more aggressive with any of the Inkbrushes is how you move and react to things. Quick movements and good observation skills are essential to being able to survive in many encounters.

    You can also add Damage Up but personally, I don't think it helps much for the Inkbrush. In my experience, Damage Up is really only useful for the Octobrush but there are definitely better abilities to focus on for the Inkbrush. I've tried out different builds with Damage Up and always ended up removing them for more desired abilities to compliment the Splat Bombs and Kraken.

    The vanilla Inkbrush is really a very niche weapon. Honestly... It's best mode in Ranked is Splat Zones. It will definitely struggle in Rainmaker and Tower Control since they're more confrontational but it can still be a useful weapon. Your main thing would be keeping your team moving and being a thorn in the opponent's side. Annoy them. Aggravate them. Make them chase you. I've had matches where I've literally spent the entire time at the enemy base and no one managed to kill me... But they sure got distracted from the objective which gave my team an almost seamless path to victory. :p The Inkbrush isn't a confrontational or aggressive weapon. It is complete support that should focus on getting and keeping your team moving while hindering the other team.

    The Inkbrush Nouveau is very good for Rainmaker and Tower Control in my opinion. Your fast ability to build the Bubbler is a great skill to have on the team for both modes. But again, the Nouveau is complete support like the Inkbrush is. Focus more on keeping your team strong and hindering the other team .Your K/D may not always be incredible but what's important is to keep your team moving.
     
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  11. Hitzel

    Hitzel Inkling Commander

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    If you want to focus on swim speed and special charge there are very few excuses not to run Comeback.

    So Permanent Inkbrush @ Comeback, Ink Resist, 2m Swim, 2m Charge. Sounds good to me.
     
  12. dylan_not_bob

    dylan_not_bob Stardust Crusquider

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    Hobbled together a set that was able to toss two splatbombs with the permanent inkbrush. played with a buddy of mine who's been maining luna neo and i ended up doing really well the past few days we've played. majority of my matches i had higher K than D (even if Ks weren't astronomical or anything) and even made it to A+ for a bit.

    Going to work on L-3 for a bit i think. Thanks for all the help, guys!
     
  13. xXDR.SWOOCEXx

    xXDR.SWOOCEXx Inkling Cadet

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    For the record, I would try to learn the L-3 D before trying the vanilla L-3. The L-3 D has burst bombs which makes it much easier to secure kills and kraken is nice for opponents who get too close.
     
  14. dylan_not_bob

    dylan_not_bob Stardust Crusquider

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    Burst bombs have never been one of my strong points, but I'll give it a go.
     
  15. dylan_not_bob

    dylan_not_bob Stardust Crusquider

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    When you say "2m," are you just referring to 2 sub slots with that ability?
     
  16. Dessgeega

    Dessgeega Squid Savior From the Future

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    I'm pretty sure they mean 2 mains.
     
  17. dylan_not_bob

    dylan_not_bob Stardust Crusquider

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    Or the equivalent? Because Hitzel had Ink Resistance and Comeback and "2m" for both Swim Speed and Spec Charge which would be a total of 6 mains.

    I'm thinking 2m = 2 mains = 20 ability points? Or around that? Ink Resistance, Comeback, 20 Swim and 20 Spec Charge = 60 AP so just above the 57 limit?
     
  18. Hitzel

    Hitzel Inkling Commander

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    A main's worth, so a main or 3 subs.
     
  19. dylan_not_bob

    dylan_not_bob Stardust Crusquider

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    Cool. After playing around over the past week or so with some of recommendations here, I think I might really hone in on that ink saver sub/ink recovery building. I was able to get the 35 AP of saver sub on a set with just some random other stuff and i found that using the splat bombs to buff up my ranged game with the Permanent Inkbrush definitely helped.
     
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  20. dylan_not_bob

    dylan_not_bob Stardust Crusquider

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    Also, going to try using Zimi with something a little closer to what you had in the video, and also try to take some of what I'm learning with the perm Inkbrush to Splash or splash neo
     

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