TPP/TPIP - Aka SOPA Reloaded

[Paragon-Yoshi]

AGAIN?!?!?

Don't get me wrong.
I am not panicing. I am just annoyed


Just click the link.
It should perfectly speak for itself. <_<


I know it isn't exactly new.
But I still felt it should have its own thread, open for discussion.
Sorry... ;_;

 

[Noire]

Damn it USA (I assume they are behind this), stop trying to fight the internet. It'll only end badly for you.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Welp, you can worry, but don't panic.
As long as we keep spreading the word, it is destined to fail.

But seriously, like I said on my dA-journal, do they seriously keep wondering why people believe in the elitist-american stereotype, if they keep pulling stunts like these.
I mean, I no longer believe in stereotypes
But come on, this is ludicrous.

Especially the fact that they try and enforce it on other countrier, regardless of what laws they have, makes it look like they think they can do whatever they want, even outside of their homeland, perfectly depicting said stereotype.


Or like a friend of mine said:

This is what I've been warning about the nation I live in, Paragon.

The Democrats running the US are all about Control. Gun Control This, Copyright Control That, Nutrition Control this, Climate change that.

They seek to force their "regulations" upon all people, and will not stop until they have taken away All of our Freedoms.

As a Conservative, I know that the TPP is immoral and wrong, as it takes away Everyone's Right to Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Expression. And the only way we can stop this evil from being shoved down our throats is to take our voices and speak out in opposition endlessly.

The American people know this bill is a Piece of ³#§&§, but I doubt many have the courage to say it.

I must say this to all who come across this comment:
I am deeply sorry for what our nation is becoming. It is turning away from the principles and values it had established in 1776, and is becoming the enemy we promised to avoid.

There, I said it.

The United States of America is becoming the enemy we promised to Avoid.

I end my comment here.

Can't say anything about that, since I am german, not american.
But this sound really serious.

 

[Noire]

I am a full blooded American and I think this bill, like SOPA before it, is bull. And like SOPA, it will crash and burn just as hard.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

I am a full blooded American and I think this bill, like SOPA before it, is bull. And like SOPA, it will crash and burn just as hard.

Yes, provided the word is spread far enough.

But given how much internet-people care about their freedoms, I have faith.

 

[Ink Gunner Emily]

This is laughable. Even if this were to successfully be established, what makes them think that it'll stay there? There are always people that'll find way to break the system. Our worlds hackers are cleaver enough. Not to mention the massive Dank Web, which consists of 90% of the internet world. What makes them think that people will not end up going to the darkest depths of the internet to do their business. There are things that cannot be stopped exactly and the internet is one of them. Even if this bill does pass, it'll affect the clear web most likely, which is what... 1% of the internet? Whoppty ****in' do.

 

[Noire]

This is laughable. Even if this were to successfully be established, what makes them think that it'll stay there? There are always people that'll find way to break the system. Our worlds hackers are cleaver enough. Not to mention the massive Dank Web, which consists of 90% of the internet world. What makes them think that people will not end up going to the darkest depths of the internet to do their business. There are things that cannot be stopped exactly and the internet is one of them. Even if this bill does pass, it'll affect the clear web most likely, which is what... 1% of the internet? Whoppty ****in' do.

It won't pass. Like SOPA, there's too many factors to consider to even make it even possibly work and it goes against so many things our country stands for.

Also, if you pirate games on PC, you're just asking to get hacked. Buying games on Steam is so much easier and hassle free these days and they're cheap sometimes. So I have no idea why SOPA even was a thing.

 

[Ink Gunner Emily]

It won't pass. Like SOPA, there's too many factors to consider to even make it even possibly work and it goes against so many things our country stands for.

Also, if you pirate games on PC, you're just asking to get hacked. Buying games on Steam is so much easier and hassle free these days and they're cheap sometimes. So I have no idea why SOPA even was a thing.

I know, I'm just saying is all. The fact that people are still trying to make bills like this is rather pathetic. I really have no reason to worry or care what happens anymore. All this is doing is bringing out the internet warriors form their hibernation. All of us who share our voice, all of us who have hacker skills, all of us that use the Dank Web. We know the internet world and we are it's protectors. When we have bills like this that try to stop what the internet is known for and tries to kill out freedoms, it's facing insurmountable odds against it. Even if the clear web is affected by this bill's passing, we still have a large and very vast part of the web that has more freedoms than you would on the clear web. Unlike the clear web, the Dank Web has much greater dangers for those unprepared to pay the consequences. But for those courageous enough, that is a small price to pay for freedom.

 

[Noire]

I know, I'm just saying is all. The fact that people are still trying to make bills like this is rather pathetic. I really have no reason to worry or care what happens anymore. All this is doing is bringing out the internet warriors form their hibernation. All of us who share our voice, all of us who have hacker skills, all of us that use the Dank Web. We know the internet world and we are it's protectors. When we have bills like this that try to stop what the internet is known for and tries to kill out freedoms, it's facing insurmountable odds against it. Even if the clear web is affected by this bill's passing, we still have a large and very vast part of the web that has more freedoms than you would on the clear web. Unlike the clear web, the Dank Web has much greater dangers for those unprepared to pay the consequences. But for those courageous enough, that is a small price to pay for freedom.

I agree with your whole statement.

One thing that that I learned that these out of touch politicians haven't is, Don't. Mess. With. The. Internet. It's, by far. The most dangerous and unpredictable place you could possible be at. And while it's a wonderful and happy place, there's a rather dark and horrifying side to it as well. Threatening the Internet's culture will only bring the most powerful hackers out of the woodwork and they WILL retaliate. I don't think these politicians fully understand what they're dealing with. And sadly, they'll keep trying until hopefully, the next generation of politicians understand the Internet better and don't do this stuff.

 

[Ink Gunner Emily]

I agree with your whole statement.

One thing that that I learned that these out of touch politicians haven't is, Don't. Mess. With. The. Internet. It's, by far. The most dangerous and unpredictable place you could possible be at. And while it's a wonderful and happy place, there's a rather dark and horrifying side to it as well. Threatening the Internet's culture will only bring the most powerful hackers out of the woodwork and they WILL retaliate. I don't think these politicians fully understand what they're dealing with. And sadly, they'll keep trying until hopefully, the next generation of politicians understand the Internet better and don't do this stuff.

I wish we had internet savvy politicians too, but I do dought that will ever happen. I've been proven wrong before, but believing is seeing. As mush as I dislike saying this, we will probably have a good hundred years yet till politicians smarten up with the internet, and that's me giving a generous guesstimation.

 

[Noire]

I wish we had internet savvy politicians too, but I do dought that will ever happen. I've been proven wrong before, but believing is seeing. As mush as I dislike saying this, we will probably have a good hundred years yet till politicians smarten up with the internet, and that's me giving a generous guesstimation.

At this rate, that assumption isn't far off. I can't wait until my kids start complaining about a new BS Internet related bill like SOPA in the future. >_>

 

[Ink Gunner Emily]

At this rate, that assumption isn't far off. I can't wait until my kids start complaining about a new BS Internet related bill like SOPA in the future. >_>

lol I agree with that sentiment whole heartily~ It's not something that would be savored in our thoughts, but sadly it's becoming more of a reality as we progress toward our middle ages as adults. How our kids react to this stuff maybe disconserning but warning them about the dangers on the internet is the best we can do. The rest is up to them really.

 

[Noire]

lol I agree with that sentiment who heartily~ It's not something that would be savored in our thoughts, but sadly it's becoming more of a reality as we progress toward our middle ages as adults. How our kids react to this stuff maybe disconserning but warning them about the dangers on the internet is the best we can do. The rest is up to them really.

Yup. The ballpark lies with them, and all you can do once they hit a certain age is to encourage them to think and do the right thing.

 

[Pteropine]

I hate people, why do they want us to suffer by making the internet a boring place?

 

[Litagano Motscoud]

I still remain neutral on this issue, mostly because I personally don't know too much about it, and well...this wouldn't really be the first time I've seen people make something to be really bad when it's not.

A lot of the rhetoric I've seen has been against it, so I don't think the common sentiment is unbiased.

 

[Heroine of Squids]

Meh, it's gonna get shut down anyway. I'm not worried.

 

[SGM]

Finalizing a deal like the TPP behind closed doors is a bit suspicious, no?

 

[BlackZero]

TPP is more than mere digital rights legislation. It is arguably the most ambitious trade agreement ever attempted in US history. Here's an incredibly brief breakdown of what it supposedly does. Bear in mind that this is not a new piece of legislation. I believe TPP has been in the works since 2005.

First, it will lower barriers to trade between the US and East Asian/Pacific countries. For example, Japan has very high tariffs on certain industries (agriculture comes to mind), making it costly for US companies to sell there. This will significantly reduce tariffs, allowing US companies to compete in Japan on a more level playing field with Japanese companies.

One of the more controversial parts of TPP is the extension of already ridiculous US copyright protection. There is also the internet provisions. Oddly enough though, these aren't the real hot button issue.

The most terrifying provision in TPP, and what has people in an uproar most of all is that it will give companies the right to sue governments that pass legislation that damages their profits. Yes, you read that correctly. Companies will actually have a legal cause of action against governments that pass laws that harm profits. This has very troubling implications for laws addressing labor conditions, wages, and environmental protection if those laws increase operating costs and shrink profit margins.

The other hot issue is healthcare costs. TPP can effectively eliminate the generic drug market by allowing pharma companies to not only extend their patents indefinitely, but to also ban the manufacture of drugs that produce the same effect under a different brand name. This means that cheap generics could disappear and consumers will have no choice but to buy the more expensive brand-name drugs. There are also provisions that suggest companies would be able to patent natural processes and other ridiculous things like plants and animals. Yes, you also read that correctly.

So, while the SOPA aspects of TPP are worrisome, that is just the tip of the iceberg. Of course, we won't know how much of this will actually get implemented in the final draft or how these provisions will actually be enforced. As of now, TPP has already been fast-tracked in the US government. This means that Congress has 60 days to review the entire 11,000 page deal and say yes or no: they cannot accept certain parts and reject others. It's an all-or-nothing deal.
Edit: bear in mind that Congress received the deal a few weeks ago, so a chunk of those 60 days have already passed.

With all of that said, this deal has to pass in every country that is a party to the agreement. If even one does not pass TPP, it has to go back to the bargaining table. I encourage my fellow US Americans to read up on TPP and decide whether its something they can live with or not. From there, make as much noise as you can to elected officials.

I would also encourage citizens of other participating countries to do likewise. This isn't just an American law; all participating countries will be deciding on TPP.

If it does pass, I suppose the US can take comfort in one thing: it will have secured trade agreements with virtually all of China's neighbors, severely limiting its ability to compete with the US in markets in its own back yard. That could throw quite a monkey wrench into China's rise as an economic power. I don't know how much that will mean to the average citizen, but I suppose it will be a feather in some politician's cap.

Sauces:
ELI5: What is the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP), what are its pros and cons? How will it affect us?
ELI5: The Trans Pacific Partnership Deal

 

[Litagano Motscoud]

Finalizing a deal like the TPP behind closed doors is a bit suspicious, no?

Trade deals like this are always negotiated behind closed doors, so I've heard. There's no use in showing off something that's probably going to be changed later.

 

[BlackZero]

Trade deals like this are always negotiated behind closed doors, so I've heard. There's no use in showing off something that's probably going to be changed later.

Diplomacy in general is done in secret, and trade agreements are no different. There are legitimate reasons for doing it this way. First, secrecy allows negotiators to put things on the table that they may not do if their governments/companies knew they were bargaining with certain issues. Backdraft from compromise on sensitive or "sacred" issues can be a strong deal killer.

It also preserves negotiating strength. If Japanese companies know that US companies can afford to pay a 50% tariff, they will hold out for a figure closer to 50%. If they believe companies can only afford to pay 20% and they want to do business with those companies, they will be more willing to consider lower numbers. This ties in to the previous point of "safe anonymity:" the Japanese government may not be happy with their negotiator if they believe he proposed a low-ball figure. By keeping things secret, negotiators can be more flexible with the offers they accept while still avoiding backlash by making it impossible to determine who specifically is responsible for the terms the entire group agreed on.

The secrecy of the deal is not what bothers me. It's that it's being pushed through our government very quickly. It's a huge trade deal and our government has no time to actually review it. They also cannot pick and choose what parts they want to keep and what they want scrapped since it's fast-tracked. This puts a lot of pressure on Congress to push it through without really knowing what's in it given the economic benefits and the fact that it's a middle finger to China.