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Why Rainmaker Is Uncompetitive And Should Be Removed From Major Tournament Play

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by Acid, Dec 30, 2015.

  1. Kbot

    Kbot Full-time TO
    Event Organizer Moderator

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    Just because it's different doesn't mean it's bad. I can't say a whole lot on the issue since I'm not qualified. But trust me, it's been discussed many times before.
     
    Alpha359 likes this.
  2. BlackZero

    BlackZero Inkling Commander

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    Rain Maker is great if you like playing aggressively. I personally hate it because it's very hard to defend against someone running around with an Inkzooka the entire match. Corridor maps like Walleye or Hammerhead make this even worse. Most of the RM matches I've played in ended within one minute because the team that didn't get the RM couldn't stop the team that had it. It's not so bad on maps that aren't straightaways, but you still have a player running around with a charger-style Inkzooka. It's a great competitive mode if you like to play very aggressive, but I've had nothing but ****ty experiences with the mode. Definitely wouldn't mind if this wasn't in the sequel, and I think it's the worst of the three modes. If they changed the RM from an Inkzooka-style weapon to a standard Shooter-style weapon (like the Splattershot), I don't think it wouldn't be as bad.

    Of course, it could be that I downright suck at this mode...but that would be patently ridiculous. In all seriousness, I haven't found a single strategy that works for me in RM.
     
    #22 BlackZero, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  3. Njok

    Njok Bouncer

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    Lol it's far from an inkzooka man, come on. If anything I'd call it a Dynamo Slosher :p It's slow as f*ck and it's really not that hard to avoid if you see it coming. And you should, most of the time.

    Anyway that's just more reasons why someone personally doesn't like the mode. And that's fine. But let's not confuse that with why it would not be viable for competitive play.
     
    Icky likes this.
  4. BlackZero

    BlackZero Inkling Commander

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    It is objectively terrible for competitive play based on the quia ego sic dico principle.
     
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  5. SCX|P7

    SCX|P7 Inkling

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    I personally only like splat zones competitively. I find the other two to just be kinda strange and gimmicky.
     
    The ΩS likes this.
  6. Fightersword

    Fightersword Good TOs are Capitalists
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    to be fair TC is a lot like payload (if you've played TF2 it's basically escort-an-object, though in this one teams fight over one object rather than having it be attack defend or each team having their own object) and Rainmaker is reverse capture the flag with only one flag. Though if you haven't come from other shooters I can understand why these gametypes would be odd to you.
     
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  7. SCX|P7

    SCX|P7 Inkling

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    No, I love TF2. But tower control isn't terrible, splat zones just feels more solid and fun
     
  8. Fightersword

    Fightersword Good TOs are Capitalists
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    ah ok. I was just making a guess to why they feel odd. Some game modes just aren't people's cups of tea.

    Your opinion isn't weird either. RM in particular was very unpopular early on when it was released. People like it way more now than they used to. My series actually used to run it at lower rates due to its lack of popularity, something I should have fixed earlier than I did.
     
  9. Icky

    Icky Inkster Jr.

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    Hmmm, I'm sorry but this is a bad argument for several reasons:

    1. In many sports, different stadiums of varying surfaces, sizes and weather conditions call for a VERY different approach from all teams (in cricket you have the WACA and Lord's Oval, in AFL the SCG as examples). The fact that cricket games at the WACA are won by fast bowlers and not spinners or batsmen does not make the game/stadium broken, it means it's DIFFERENT. That's it, and if you can't adjust then you're going to lose.

    On maps like Saltspray and Blackbelly, you must prioritize popping the rainmaker and taking out the enemies, not building map control because the game can be won in one clean sweep if you are skilled enough as a team (these maps favour quick-fire shooters and blitz tactics). On maps like Camp Triggerfish and Flounder, it will take more thought and positioning to get a good push (these maps favour chargers and zoning weapons) - DIFFERENT! Neither map is broken, just require different tactics/loadouts.

    2. Rainmaker is like Soccer - you can easily reset the rm on most maps to the middle (like a clearance kick in soccer) if you're under pressure. You can build pressure by controlling the map (the pitch), but that pressure is also easily broken by one or two kills (good ball control and plays). Keeping possession of the rm (ball) to wind the clock down and build pressure is a viable and smart tactic - not exploiting the game (remember, both teams can use this tactic therefore it's not an exploit). Games can be won and lost in an instant through one powerful play which creates tension and pressure as well as always giving hope to a struggling team - again, it's not broken, just DIFFERENT to sz and tc. If you don't think soccer is broken, why would you say RM is broken as a mode?

    3. Contrary to popular (scrubby) opinion, RM is very balanced and arguably more-so than the other two modes. Splat Zones rewards excellent loadouts, communication about choke points, teamwork and map control. Tower Control rewards timing, communication around specials and pushes, defensive use of specials and patience. Rainmaker rewards speed and opportunism, coordination of specials for pushes, loadouts that are heavily geared towards the map and above all - a never give up attitude. More than either of the other modes, one mistake from the winning team can result in a loss and likewise one mistake from the losing team can cost them the game. This creates pressure, tension, hope and a never-give-up nature that the other 2 modes lack. 1 clean sweep can turn a game around in RM, whereas in TC and SZ it usually takes 2 or 3 clean sweeps to do the same.

    All in all, the argument to remove Rainmaker from competitions is ill informed and a little short-sighted
     
  10. Kvng_Ferg

    Kvng_Ferg Inkling

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    Rainmaker is a mode where you need to take risk and yet not all risks are worth it, you can easily get the win. Saying that tough Rainmaker
     
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  11. KayB

    KayB Semi-Pro Squid

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    Snipers eat the Rainkmaker for breakfast though, and you can't really get more defensive than that weapon. In fact, Hammerhead makes the Rainmaker pretty easy to pick off just because for pretty much half or more of the map you can't swim through. Inkwalls soak up at least one hit too, which gives you plenty of time to kill the Rainmaker.

    I find RM a lot more manageable than Splat Zones since I feel that Splat Zones is even more momentum based than RM.
     
    #31 KayB, Jan 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
    birdiebee likes this.
  12. Hinichii.ez.™

    Hinichii.ez.™ Is Splatoon an E-Sport or just a meme?

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    who gave you this meme and this place ded
     
  13. jsilva

    jsilva Inkling Cadet

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    Rainmaker has always been my favourite mode :)

    As BlackZero points out it requires a more aggressive playstyle. Someone who is normally a defensive player must play differently with the rainmaker. Additionally, they need to be more aggressive in splatting the player with the rainmaker—playing it safe can easily allow the rainmaker to push further. Since it fires so slowly and the player walks so slowly it's often easy to get in a position to splat the player with it, although it may mean sacrificing yourself. It's not unusual for me splat the rainmaker simply by throwing a splat bomb near them (intelligently) since they move so slowly.

    Maybe that's why some people don't like it. Perhaps it's more a reflection of personal play style?


     
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  14. Alpha359

    Alpha359 Full Squid

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    I've read through what you have to say Acid and I can definitely see where you're coming from. However on the whole I definitely agree with the majority of other players in that Rainmaker is fine. As brought out by various players just because it requires you to play more aggressively doesn't make the mode inherently wrong or otherwise flawed. I could go on to say more but I think at this point most of the arguments have been made.
     
  15. BlackZero

    BlackZero Inkling Commander

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    Ymmv, but I've found most of my RM teams have to have all 4 people going for the RM. In my experience, camp sniping puts them at a disadvantage and trying to snipe a carrier backed by 3 other teammates by yourself doesn't always go well. One on one or with your teammates there, sniping works great. That hasn't been the norm in my RM matches though. I'm usually stuck trying to snipe by myself because my team got whiped.

    Hit and run sniping is an option, but you might as well just use the .96 Gal Deco and attack with the rest of your team. You can still sneak attack the carrier from range (3 shots max) and use the wall to buy some time or cover your teammates if you need, and you don't put your team on a 3/4 disadvantage when they run up against the other team.

    Sniping is certainly an option, but you have to be on a team that can handle being a man down when fighting for the RM. In my experience, that is VERY rare.
     

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