Zones only vs all-modes

[zyf_]

we're so back
primers:
- flc and grey
- gem and chara

my personal stance at this point with my team is "play zones only rn—not because we can't put in an effort to learn other modes, but because most people only know how to play zones well, ESPECIALLY in pickups (e.g. sendouq). if we play anything else, we're getting an inaccurate read on what actually works. if we want to get better at the other modes, we'll have to find specific people to scrim that explicitly dedicate time to trying to learn the other modes as much as we are, otherwise it's just not that good a use of time"

 

[ThatsSo]

Sorry but you couldn't pay me to watch a video from any of these people

 

[zyf_]

Sorry but you couldn't pay me to watch a video from any of these people

ok mr jamesthatsso do u even boot up the game anymore

 

[ThatsSo]

ok mr jamesthatsso do u even boot up the game anymore

I'm sorry to tell you that I do, yes

 

[Ceviche]

SZ has been my least favorite mode for a while but I would be willing to try the SZ favored tournaments, as long as we don’t get rid of the other modes.

 

[tapout]

hipster edgy contrarian mr "i don't watch some of the most respected creators in this community" aside,

i genuinely think zones only is only being considered because the devs don't know how to make more than like 2 good maps for rm and tc. from a design standpoint, sz is the mode which most encourages defensive play and limited weapon choices.

zones cheese like slider and tristrike are also just way too rewarding if they work because of how important and punishing penalty points are in zones

 

[Alphine_Agnitio]

Zones only just sounds boring really, I'm prepping my team for Minnow Cup this Saturday and I'm already starting to get a bit bored of RM just cause playing the same mode over and over and over gets you to pick up on the less nuanced parts of the mode and focus more on the repetitive gameplay bits(get picks, pop rain, paint control, grab rain, go go go) and the team I scrimmed with to practice it a few days ago also expressed similar issues.

Variety is the spice of life as they say. I think all the modes of the game are about even that I have no real concrete issue with any of them, not enough to say "I don't want to play this mode ever"(I was that way with Clam Blitz but then I actually tried Clam Blitz, what a wonder that does sometimes)

 

[DrunkDoctor]

Even as a splat zones hater its the mode with the highest highs in terms of map/mode quality in the game right now, but also the mode with some of the lowest lows. I dislike zones only as the standard for competitive play, but there's nothing wrong with running single mode tournaments.

Looking past just "are the maps on this mode good/bad", if a mode has something to it that makes it not competitively viable, then be the team that abuses it and wins every tournament by abusing the mechanics of the mode. Prove that if two teams match up, one better than the other, that the worse team can consistently win using gimmick strats or abusing the mechanics of the mode to overcome a skill differential.

 

[Sambews]

Clam blitz is such an interesting and complex game mode, I wish it were more popular

 

[Zeatehk]

i think no matter your stance on the mode a single mode being the only one played in major tournaments would get stale rather quickly, at least for me

 

[Alphine_Agnitio]

Clam blitz is such an interesting and complex game mode, I wish it were more popular

The biggest issue is the mode is extremely counter intuitive

Unlike sz rm and tc instead of it being a simple "focus objective, do thing with objective til score hits 0" 2 step process, Clam Blitz is more like a 4 step one "grab clams, make a ball, toss ball at basket, grab more clams and toss those into the basket til score reaches 0" and for CB specifically theres a lot of extra contrivances like how much overtime you get, the pity clam, tossing the clam so your not giving your location away ex.

It really deserves it's own in game tutorial ala like what Salmon Run does the first time you play it, maybe the recon staffer puts you into a recon mode and explains how to get clams, make a ball, and score

 

[leonidasxlii]

there's already enough people being pushed away from the game because they're losing interest, or having less fun with the game; imo zones only is less fun and will only push away more people if continued in that direction. it's arguable whether zones is more competitively balanced, or initial inertia makes it so that people spend more time on zones and are better at it, as was said in the OP. But in the long run you need the playerbase to stay and clearly the devs aren't doing a good enough job at that.

 

[DrunkDoctor]

Clam blitz is such an interesting and complex game mode, I wish it were more popular

Clams blitz requires a level of coordination and team skills not seen in the other 3 modes. Major skill gaps aside, I'd argue a team with less mechanical skill but better team coordination and strat planning should win the mode more often than a team that has mediocre coordination but better mechanical skill.

 

[zyf_]

there's already enough people being pushed away from the game because they're losing interest, or having less fun with the game; imo zones only is less fun and will only push away more people if continued in that direction. it's arguable whether zones is more competitively balanced, or initial inertia makes it so that people spend more time on zones and are better at it, as was said in the OP. But in the long run you need the playerbase to stay and clearly the devs aren't doing a good enough job at that.

valid take which is why i think we have the status quo (high level ppl are practicing zones only and playing sz only tourneys, others are not)

 

[Whale with Ginger Ale]

we're so back
primers:
- flc and grey
- gem and chara

my personal stance at this point with my team is "play zones only rn—not because we can't put in an effort to learn other modes, but because most people only know how to play zones well, ESPECIALLY in pickups (e.g. sendouq). if we play anything else, we're getting an inaccurate read on what actually works. if we want to get better at the other modes, we'll have to find specific people to scrim that explicitly dedicate time to trying to learn the other modes as much as we are, otherwise it's just not that good a use of time"

If I remember gems video correctly then I completely agree with him. We are not JP, JP plays zones only because it is simpler and requires less coordination than the other modes (not to say you don't need those things but it does require less). This is because JP focuses more on pick-ups and less on pre-existing teams. In the west we focus way more on well established teams and less on pick-ups so we're able to practice the game and strategies with people we know and are comfortable playing with.

We don't have to play zones only and personally I do find zones pretty boring compared to the other modes so I hope we don't switch to zones only.

 

[WIP Riley]

we're so back
primers:
- flc and grey
- gem and chara

my personal stance at this point with my team is "play zones only rn—not because we can't put in an effort to learn other modes, but because most people only know how to play zones well, ESPECIALLY in pickups (e.g. sendouq). if we play anything else, we're getting an inaccurate read on what actually works. if we want to get better at the other modes, we'll have to find specific people to scrim that explicitly dedicate time to trying to learn the other modes as much as we are, otherwise it's just not that good a use of time"

I feel like zones only kinda sucks the fun put of comp, especially with how bad zones is in this game compared to 2

 

[joe???]

I always thought all modes was the better format in Splatoon 2 and early Splatoon 3 but now I am starting to lean towards zones only. Rainmaker and tower control have a horrible lack of competitively viable maps in this game, which is sad because the removal of sting ray should've saved these modes. Clam blitz has gotten worse in this game too, kraken has really eaten away at my enjoyment of the mode and the community's insistence on playing it on maps like crableg doesn't help either. I think zones is better in this game than 2 though. Maybe if the last couple maps they add to this game save the other 3 modes I'll change my mind but the odds look bleak.

 

[Zonink]

I played a lot of zones only in splatoon 2 since there was an even larger push for it back then. A lot of that was facilitated by a friend group who were really active in the +server at the time

Zones is a lot less swingy than other modes which makes it much less stressful imo than something like RM. The "better" team nearly always wins in zones where as random upsets are much more common on all modes.

Zones only originated in s1 since rm and tc were jokes modes with the special design in that game, but between the revamp of tower in 2 and the revamp of rainmaker with checkpoints in 3. I don't think zones only is the correct way to go forward. I played enough vjet in 2 to know that zones only can go REALLY wrong.

 

[zyf_]

If I remember gems video correctly then I completely agree with him. We are not JP, JP plays zones only because it is simpler and requires less coordination than the other modes (not to say you don't need those things but it does require less). This is because JP focuses more on pick-ups and less on pre-existing teams. In the west we focus way more on well established teams and less on pick-ups so we're able to practice the game and strategies with people we know and are comfortable playing with.

We don't have to play zones only and personally I do find zones pretty boring compared to the other modes so I hope we don't switch to zones only.

this makes sense until you get to around + level where the density of players and teams on at any given time is too low for practice to always be full-team vs full-team

i should've qualified my initial conclusion with "given our [my team's] current level, we should..."

 

[liligravybread]

as far as I can tell, zones only is great for pickups and generally getting practice in regarding fights. because the objective is so simple (it's just a matter of having mid under your control) all your focus goes towards consistently winning fights to maintain that control.

i'm probably just repeating similar things a lot of other people have said but i've been trying to put some time into understanding map pools recently, what players look for and what is considered to be a balanced, worthwhile competitive experience in a tournament and i've learnt a lot from watching and commentating teams and talking to top players and other TOs to come to how i currently think about this topic.

there's a drawback to zones as there's a lot of depth in other modes of the game, such as tc highlighting certain areas of the map, the speed you may have to be able to react as a team when defending in rm, and being able to coordinate things outside of just fighting in clams. each of those other modes gives various other disadvantages and advantages to either team.

regarding disadvantages in zones it comes down purely to map geometry and i think maps in splatoon 3 on average are just... kinda average? robo zones is probably the best map mode in the entire game because of the options available regarding map geometry. but something like scorch zones is not only stupid to cap but stupid to gain more control over because taking up more space on the map means... walking across grates. getting punished there is massively unbalanced and not really anything a team should have to worry about in a well-balanced map pool designed to test a range of skills fairly. but then scorch rainmaker is better because there are more, safer options to push and quickly retake, with pushing to the final KO being extremely risky due to the advantageous positions the defending team has. Map geometry is just better in other modes sometimes and zones only doesn't necessarily allow for that balance or variety of gameplay options and skill expression. what exactly is the skill being expressed in walking across grates in single file on scorch zones when you can have... other options in a more varied map pool

if youre playing with a goal of winning various tournaments, youre always going to have to consider all modes. but zones in particular is great if you want to focus on what it's good for and what it tests in a team or group of players in a pickup.


my biggest thought on this:

zones-only tests specific skills (ie. team fights where the only advantage or disadvantage is the map terrain that zones maps offer) and at least partially ignores particular skills and possibilities to test them in a fair and balanced way that other modes offer.