What Weapons do you feel need Buffs or Nerfs and how would they change them?

[Cuttleshock]

Seekers....the part of me that likes to splat with seekers makes me agree it should move faster. The part of me that likes hiding in the ink trail to flank makes me think that would ruin it's main utility :)

They can still be sped up, I believe. If I'm not mistaken, it doesn't take any Swim Speed to outspeed a running Seeker already, although you need to catch up at the start of the race. So how about causing them to start slower and accelerate quickly to a hard-capped maximum of, say, 15% greater than the present speed? It only would take a single Main of Swim Speed to keep up with that.

 

[Award]

Honestly in all my battles against dynamos the only weapon that I've see that can counter it (midrange) are the squiffers, and bambis with good aim, most times I manage to splat them as they begin the swing before the flick animation fully comes out although honestly though unless the fix the netcode or improve everyone connection dynamos and lunas are going to be a source of complaint at all times.

So how about we move on to the tentatek which I feel just need a nerf to it's range or the speed of it's shots (or your movement speed while shooting) the only nerf so far has been to slightly mitigate damage, and the inkzooka nerf and I just feel that it is in need a slight adjustment

Yeah, that's just the thing, the netcode issue. Maybe the best fix for the dynamo is to give it a massive buff? Make it's fling as fast as a carbon (but still just as ink intensive). It's a Trojan buff. On paper it gives them what they had, faster and deadlier. In practice it lets them run out of ink faster and removes their lag advantage because the fling and wave are connected - if you attack at the start of the swing you attacked during the swing and flick - instead of now where if you attack at the start of the fling you might be attacking just after the main swing of the NEXT one. In some ways the problem is lags interaction with the weapons forced handicap resulting in a massive lag advantage. Take away their handicap, take away their lag advantage :)

Splattershot. The ohko splattershot has become universal, but it's not much less so with most other shooters, really. I wish they'd nerf it some, but then the same could be said for so many shooters. Making it less ink efficient might be the way to go. Same kill stats, but requires more frequent breaks/retreats.

A better solution would be to buff weapons it's strong against, like the n-zap etc.

The problem with buffing a few weapons that have specific trouble dealing with specific other weapons is, you've now created new imbalances in a round-about attempt to solve one specific problem. Buff nzaps and splooshes to fix the dynamo issue, now nzaps and splooshes have an unintentional overpowering counter against, say, DS. Round-about solutions to a very specific problem tend to cause worse problems. Look at the charger nerfs to fix the problem with stacking. We ended up STILL having a stacking problem and a lot of unhappy carbon players with burst bombs when the burst bombs were mostly nerfed to fix eliter. (Disclaimer: I prefer the new burst bombs, but I know I'm in the minority there.)

 

[Leronne]

The problem with buffing a few weapons that have specific trouble dealing with specific other weapons is, you've now created new imbalances in a round-about attempt to solve one specific problem. Buff nzaps and splooshes to fix the dynamo issue, now nzaps and splooshes have an unintentional overpowering counter against, say, DS. Round-about solutions to a very specific problem tend to cause worse problems. Look at the charger nerfs to fix the problem with stacking. We ended up STILL having a stacking problem and a lot of unhappy carbon players with burst bombs when the burst bombs were mostly nerfed to fix eliter. (Disclaimer: I prefer the new burst bombs, but I know I'm in the minority there.)

I'm talking about generally buffing weaker weapons, not just the ones the splattershot beats out. And from my experience, i've only seen e-litre and other chargers stacking up to three mains worth of damage up. Those stacking more than three are very few and far between.

 

[Award]

I'm talking about generally buffing weaker weapons, not just the ones the splattershot beats out. And from my experience, i've only seen e-litre and other chargers stacking up to three mains worth of damage up. Those stacking more than three are very few and far between.

Heck I use 3 mains, and don't consider it even close to stacking. I regularly encounter stackers of 4-5 mains. Not just chargers with damage up, but any weapon with def up, any weapon with stacked swim or run speed. I don't see as many stacking ink savers/recoveries, so the former are the main culprits, and the 4-6 main run or swim speeds are just annoying as anything, it's almost the play-time equivalent of squidbagging.

nzap isn't really a weak weapon though. It's range and firing rate and mobility are pretty formidable despite the low damage per shot, and the increased turfing last patch really made it a much better weapon. It outranges the splattershot, does it not?

 

[Leronne]

Heck I use 3 mains, and don't consider it even close to stacking. I regularly encounter stackers of 4-5 mains. Not just chargers with damage up, but any weapon with def up, any weapon with stacked swim or run speed. I don't see as many stacking ink savers/recoveries, so the former are the main culprits, and the 4-6 main run or swim speeds are just annoying as anything, it's almost the play-time equivalent of squidbagging.

nzap isn't really a weak weapon though. It's range and firing rate and mobility are pretty formidable despite the low damage per shot, and the increased turfing last patch really made it a much better weapon. It outranges the splattershot, does it not?

Same range. And the splattershot kills faster than it.

 

[Award]

Hmm, so same range, splattershot kills faster but with slower RoF - so the splattershot can take advantage of being laggy better while the nzap can better resist laggy opponents. (Or do I have that backward?) Of course nzap is more mobile isn't it? Oddly nzap always feels like it has more range to me than splattershot. I suppose that means I underestimate splattershot's range.

 

[binx]

When I said common weapons (mid/short range) were a bad match against dynamos, I was thinking "like a Jr is a bad match against a .96". I mean, of course, if you lack range you need to work around. If you're saying "you can counter snipers", then it's the same for dynamos. There are several ways, and some were given here. I don't have a hard time against dynamos, or not more than against any other weapon. You just have to think about how to fight against each weapon.

Btw, lots of people have a bad timing against dynamo (myself included until recently). Basically, you are in stealth, you're waiting for the good timing to attack the dynamo: don't wait for the end of the flick. That's how you'll die or exchange with the next one, it's too late (unless you're in front of him, but you're not being that stealthy nor smart then). And that's not latency, I saw it in some videos too.

Dynamos are pitiful for long range weapons, more or less pitiful for half of the blasters, weak to any kind of bombs, and disrupting them is priceless. Add some moves, some stealth, some skills, and where is the problem? Sometimes I feel people are saying "I play the easiest weapon in the game, but this other weapon is really hard to take on, please nerf it so that I can still win without improving please". Or they are just sad because their easy-to-learn weapons (splattershot, .52, luna) are not that great against it. Oh, so sad. Would the long range weapons more played, everyone would possibly go "dynamo are bad, maybe make them faster?"

 

[UnChosen]

When I said common weapons (mid/short range) were a bad match against dynamos, I was thinking "like a Jr is a bad match against a .96". I mean, of course, if you lack range you need to work around. If you're saying "you can counter snipers", then it's the same for dynamos. There are several ways, and some were given here. I don't have a hard time against dynamos, or not more than against any other weapon. You just have to think about how to fight against each weapon.

Btw, lots of people have a bad timing against dynamo (myself included until recently). Basically, you are in stealth, you're waiting for the good timing to attack the dynamo: don't wait for the end of the flick. That's how you'll die or exchange with the next one, it's too late (unless you're in front of him, but you're not being that stealthy nor smart then). And that's not latency, I saw it in some videos too.

Dynamos are pitiful for long range weapons, more or less pitiful for half of the blasters, weak to any kind of bombs, and disrupting them is priceless. Add some moves, some stealth, some skills, and where is the problem? Sometimes I feel people are saying "I play the easiest weapon in the game, but this other weapon is really hard to take on, please nerf it so that I can still win without improving please". Or they are just sad because their easy-to-learn weapons (splattershot, .52, luna) are not that great against it. Oh, so sad. Would the long range weapons more played, everyone would possibly go "dynamo are bad, maybe make them faster?"

But that is exactly it, forcing people into mid/long range weapons with bomb/disrupter/splash wall is already a big problem, because it excludes half the weapons in the game from being played. Not to mention all the stealth jump+quick respawn Dynamos making this whole discussion pointless.

It is also not very convincing that 80%+ of weapons I see in all the S+ and Squad Battles I have played have at least the range of the Tentatek. The videos of the top tournament players? Same thing. If there is a short range weapon used it's usually in specifically for fast charging Kraken/Bubbler, and blasters for tower control.

I am almost certain most of the Neo Sploosh I see will switch to the new N-Zap, since it's essentially the same kit with better range and even faster special charge, assuming light special depletion.

The Dynamo isn't even the biggest culprit, the .96 Gal Deco is even worse at forcing the long range+bomb meta.

So IMO either the Dynamo/.96 Gal Deco gets a nerf, OR over a dozen weapons needs a buff.

 

[binx]

Well it seems the dynamo stealth jumping should be reduced by a lot, if the update is true. But I don't think the dynamo should be nerfed more than that. Half the weapons have a proble with dynamo? I would say this is very wrong. If you have the range of a dual or more, you're not bad. If you have a fast TTK like .52 or tentatec, you still aren't that bad. If you have these subs you're not bad either... Really, only a few have nothing against dynamo. And most weapon have some weapons they are bad against, that's only natural.

In tournaments plays, I'm pretty sure you can find good examples of dynamo being killed by tentatek or .52. Dynamo isn't even that common in competitive scene, unless it's a specific map/mode combination.

 

[Saber]

I am almost certain most of the Neo Sploosh see will switch to the new N-Zap, since it's essentially the same kit with better range and even faster special charge, assuming light special depletion.[/QUOTE]

Honestly the neo sploosh plays so much differently from the n-zap and even though they have a similar set there are no real comparison between the 2, n-zap focus on objective and splatting enemies while neo sploosh (at least the ones I've met) focus on flanking the enemy team and overall map coverage.

So IMO either the Dynamo/.96 Gal Deco gets a nerf, OR over a dozen weapons needs a buff.[/QUOTE]

Honestly they nerf the .96 so much already, and honestly all I've seen is an increase is skill of players using this weapon, I feel it should be left alone for now, it is a good weapon that takes time to master but nerfing it anymore will just make it as unusable as greninja was (pre-patch), as Award said buffing weapons to fix one problem will just result in a whole other problem I'd prefer not to deal with.

 

[Award]

Btw, lots of people have a bad timing against dynamo (myself included until recently). Basically, you are in stealth, you're waiting for the good timing to attack the dynamo: don't wait for the end of the flick. That's how you'll die or exchange with the next one, it's too late (unless you're in front of him, but you're not being that stealthy nor smart then). And that's not latency, I saw it in some videos too.

I'm going to guess that either the folks that have the problem with dynamos are the ones on the laggy side of the connection, or the ones such as yourself that don't have as much problem with dynamo are the ones with the lag advantage over them. What you describe here "don't wait until the end of the flick" - that's the thing that's broken. Based on what you SEE the timing of attacking a dynamo should mean that you ahve the all clear after their flick. If the weapon depends on running INTO the flick because that means you're REALLY avoiding the flick, there's a big problem to address. It also means only the "in the know" crowd in more competitive arenas like this have any idea what to do about it. While any weapon has the lag issue, they don't have such a broad zone that "might or might not be the invisible zone of insta-death that you have no way of knowing about." If we were playing on LAN we wouldn't be debating it. Honestly if dynamo hadn't become so popular at the S/S+ tier we wouldn't be debating it. The problem is dynamo has a massively exploitable lag advantage, many high level players know this, and thus many high level players are using that weapon to exploit that lag advantage. If it would become a lot less popular I wouldn't even mind some abuse of it that much. But we're talking about splatfests where 5/8 players are using a dynamo and half the map is a zone you randomly splat for no reason from an ink wave with no living source. And then there's zones...

I am almost certain most of the Neo Sploosh see will switch to the new N-Zap, since it's essentially the same kit with better range and even faster special charge, assuming light special depletion.

As a die-hard #SplooshRevolooshionary I'm looking forward to the new Sploosh myself...you can keep the N-Zap. You just can't move non-stop like you can with a sploosh with any other weapon ;)

Well it seems the dynamo stealth jumping should be reduced by a lot, if the update is true. But I don't think the dynamo should be nerfed more than that. Half the weapons have a proble with dynamo? I would say this is very wrong. If you have the range of a dual or more, you're not bad. If you have a fast TTK like .52 or tentatec, you still aren't that bad. If you have these subs you're not bad either... Really, only a few have nothing against dynamo. And most weapon have some weapons they are bad against, that's only natural.

In tournaments plays, I'm pretty sure you can find good examples of dynamo being killed by tentatek or .52. Dynamo isn't even that common in competitive scene, unless it's a specific map/mode combination.

I don't think counting the ultra-meta weapons of TTK and .52 really addresses the issue. Of course they're capable, they're the ultra-meta weapons. "Stick to the prominent meta" isn't a good solution where the devs are trying to foster weapon diversity, and trying at great effort and expense with the Sheldon's Picks packs. As others have pointed out the real problem with dynamo becomes apparent when you watch your kill cam if you were working as a team. Magi-death from a disembodied wave after you kill them is bad enough - but when you get killed by them when you had the element of surprise and they never even had a swing animation, and then you watch not one but two teammates shooting at them on your killcam, and their shots are going through them, and they both die in a wave from a swing that occurred after they were splatted by it. If you look at my mains list, certainly dynamos give my splatterscope and eliters no problems. Nor hydra. Bamboozler is iffy at best, particularly Mk1. Squiffer gets suction bombs, so it can (sort of )deal with it but you still have to get darned close for that finishing shot. Sploosh, Jr (sans bubble), and the rollers have a lot bigger problems. The idea of "well the long weapons on your team can deal with it" is fine and good, if you could pick the weapons in your team mix. It still remains the only weapon in the game without an effective counter by all other weapons.

However, my thought of making it swing FASTER, like I said, might actually solve some of the lag issues. it would make it faster to kill but would make it a lot more fair a weapon in a lot of ways. At least make the wave travel faster.

Honestly the neo sploosh plays so much differently from the n-zap and even though they have a similar set there are no real comparison between the 2, n-zap focus on objective and splatting enemies while neo sploosh (at least the ones I've met) focus on flanking the enemy team and overall map coverage.

I tend to think of it in reverse actually. Sploosh's inking rate and maneuverability make it an excellent zone turfer, though you do have to enter the zone to do it, so it's high risk. And given splooshes already high mobility, given some speed boost it's one of the fastest RM carriers in the game. Also it's pathmaking is a great escort/vanguard. TC is the only one where Sploosh doesn't always live up to the best objective handler. NZaps range makes it a better tower rider and is possibly a superior zone inker since it doesn't have to enter the zone.

 

[Elecmaw]

Sometimes I feel people are saying "I play the easiest weapon in the game, but this other weapon is really hard to take on, please nerf it so that I can still win without improving please". Or they are just sad because their easy-to-learn weapons (splattershot, .52, luna) are not that great against it. Oh, so sad. Would the long range weapons more played, everyone would possibly go "dynamo are bad, maybe make them faster?"

Looks like somebody's been lurking around GameFAQs.

 

[Award]

Looks like somebody's been lurking around GameFAQs.

:D:D So true.


So then I look at the patch notes and see they're not buffing H3 except for popping the shield, they're not changing dynamo or sloshing machine, and they're flipping buffing the Luna. Why, Nintendo, why?

 

[Dessgeega]

I'm going to ignore the many walls of text up there and just give my two cents: I think the dual squelcher could use a buff, in the form of a third set with literally anything. The only reason I use the Splattershot Pro over the Dual is because I like those loadouts more.

 

[UnChosen]

It also means only the "in the know" crowd in more competitive arenas like this have any idea what to do about it.

Well, as long as I am using the "right" weapons it is rather easy to deal with Dynamo during Squad Battles when I have teammates calling out its position.

Not easy in solo queue when I have to check for stealth Dynamo myself, people keep saying "just throw a bomb and out-range it" as if Dynamo users just walk around mindlessly swinging and do not play the stealth game as well.

The worst is in Splatfests because the entire map is the Dynamo's hiding place, good luck trying to bomb and our-range a Dynamo that could be hiding anywhere.

Not a very good idea to leave the game's most advertised mode unbalanced since not everyone plays competitive squads all the time. I prefer play all the modes with as many weapons as possible.

 

[Award]

Well, as long as I am using the "right" weapons it is rather easy to deal with Dynamo during Squad Battles when I have teammates calling out its position.

Not easy in solo queue when I have to check for stealth Dynamo myself, people keep saying "just throw a bomb and out-range it" as if Dynamo users just walk around mindlessly swinging and do not play the stealth game as well.

The worst is in Splatfests because the entire map is the Dynamo's hiding place, good luck trying to bomb and our-range a Dynamo that could be hiding anywhere.

Not a very good idea to leave the game's most advertised mode unbalanced since not everyone plays competitive squads all the time. I prefer play all the modes with as many weapons as possible.

Exactly, and when we talk about game balance we really have to talk in terms of solo queue and TW/Splatfest. It's all fine and dandy to say "but squad/tourney is where the balance matters" but that line of thinking comes from those who primarily play squad/tourneys which is the overwhelming minority of the player base, and even that pool of players had to play solo up to their A or S or S+ to get into their tourney clans to begin with. Everyone plays solo, so solo has to actually work. Only some play squad.

And you bring up a great point - especially with something like Sploosh or Jr. You have to go stepping up to enemy turf to find out if there's an enemy or not- but unlike with a carbon, if you suddenly see movement just at the edge of your coverage, you can't flee, they have you. But I wouldn't even mind the role of dynamo so much even in solo if it at a minimum showed what it was doing accurately. It would still present problems, but if it were all lan play without the lag, any weapon could measure the swing times and counter accordingly. They'd be annoying to face but they would be a real problem like they are now.

Splatfests. IMO Splatfest is probably what made me utterly hate dynamos. Especially after the Tempered came out and the new scoring system. In S & S+ tier Splatfest the only thing you do is spend 5 hours grinding against fields full of dynamos you can't approach unless you go meta. I love my hydras, and I love my hydras for splatfests. But still...

 

[Eclipsc70]

Im not understanding what it is about the dynamo that seems so unfair that it deserves another nerf. After the 2.7.0(?) patch that nerfed all the rollers, i feel like the dynamo has become pretty balaced for what it is, along with the .96 deco. I mainly use the ink brush(one of the shortest ranges in the game) and I generally dont have too many issues with the dynamo. I dont run head first into the tidalwave of ink, and trying to attack it mid swing leaves me with a trade so in the dynamos case I usually flank it if im not using the PermaBrush (id just roll a splat bomb when its in mid swing and get a free kill). unfortunately not all weapons can be overcome by proper strafing and gunning since not all weapons approach the same.

Speaking of the ink brush... Were finally getting a direct buff! My gosh, I feel like the ink brushes have been ignored the whole lifespan of the game except for that one 10% ink buff we got in the first balance patch. So apparently now we can lay ink under feet? Im not sure if they mean under my feet, like blasters do, or the enemy's feet like sloshers do, but either way it sounds good. If it ends up being both then halleluja! And theres another untranslated part of that ink brush buff that im curious about "change in ground ink pattern made by flinging rapidly" That may mean that the brushes get an increase in blotches sent out when swinging. Octobrush shoots out 5 blotches per swing of its brush while the ink brush shoots out 3... but then again I may be completely wrong.

 

[Leronne]

Im not understanding what it is about the dynamo that seems so unfair that it deserves another nerf. After the 2.7.0(?) patch that nerfed all the rollers, i feel like the dynamo has become pretty balaced for what it is, along with the .96 deco. I mainly use the ink brush(one of the shortest ranges in the game) and I generally dont have too many issues with the dynamo. I dont run head first into the tidalwave of ink, and trying to attack it mid swing leaves me with a trade so in the dynamos case I usually flank it if im not using the PermaBrush (id just roll a splat bomb when its in mid swing and get a free kill). unfortunately not all weapons can be overcome by proper strafing and gunning since not all weapons approach the same.

Speaking of the ink brush... Were finally getting a direct buff! My gosh, I feel like the ink brushes have been ignored the whole lifespan of the game except for that one 10% ink buff we got in the first balance patch. So apparently now we can lay ink under feet? Im not sure if they mean under my feet, like blasters do, or the enemy's feet like sloshers do, but either way it sounds good. If it ends up being both then halleluja! And theres another untranslated part of that ink brush buff that im curious about "change in ground ink pattern made by flinging rapidly" That may mean that the brushes get an increase in blotches sent out when swinging. Octobrush shoots out 5 blotches per swing of its brush while the ink brush shoots out 3... but then again I may be completely wrong.

The buff is basically that swinging sends ink under your feet as well.

 

[UnChosen]

Im not understanding what it is about the dynamo that seems so unfair that it deserves another nerf. After the 2.7.0(?) patch that nerfed all the rollers, i feel like the dynamo has become pretty balaced for what it is, along with the .96 deco. I mainly use the ink brush(one of the shortest ranges in the game) and I generally dont have too many issues with the dynamo. I dont run head first into the tidalwave of ink, and trying to attack it mid swing leaves me with a trade so in the dynamos case I usually flank it if im not using the PermaBrush (id just roll a splat bomb when its in mid swing and get a free kill). unfortunately not all weapons can be overcome by proper strafing and gunning since not all weapons approach the same.

Speaking of the ink brush... Were finally getting a direct buff! My gosh, I feel like the ink brushes have been ignored the whole lifespan of the game except for that one 10% ink buff we got in the first balance patch. So apparently now we can lay ink under feet? Im not sure if they mean under my feet, like blasters do, or the enemy's feet like sloshers do, but either way it sounds good. If it ends up being both then halleluja! And theres another untranslated part of that ink brush buff that im curious about "change in ground ink pattern made by flinging rapidly" That may mean that the brushes get an increase in blotches sent out when swinging. Octobrush shoots out 5 blotches per swing of its brush while the ink brush shoots out 3... but then again I may be completely wrong.

When I play Dynamo I can turn on reaction to a flank and still at least trade with an Inkbrush, and that is when they are mashing like they are playing Mario Party. It is probably partially due to lag, but the brush's low damage doesn't help. High level Dynamo players also don't stay in one place mindlessly swinging and know how to bait out bombs. The Kraken on the perma-brush, however, does cause major problems for Dynamos, but it needs to be charged first.

I am liking the upcoming Inkbrush buff though, assuming the the feet painting is as at least as reliable as that of the Aerospray, if it inks the feet like the blasters it would be even better :).

 

[Lonely_Dolphin]

Can we get a damage increase for Rapid Blasters so I don't have to use so much damage up? :L
Also I want more range for Sloshing Machines, Ink Mines to be manually detnateable, and H-3 n Inkstrike to have less lag. Other than that I don't really mind what they do, I'm just happy for any changes that keep this game fresh!

Hey they buffed everything I asked for besides Inkstrike... except all in the wrong ways! <(T_T<)