A small thing that I think is a problem with Saltspray Rig

[Chaos_Knight]

I dunno if it's me, but I've seen people rush to the top of the map and try to take control of it, but when the match ends one team wins because they ink the rest of the map while the other only cared for the top.

 

[TheSquidling]

On Zones it is too hard to get back to the middle unless you flank and go up their alleyway.

 

[Miirisa]

I feel like the problem with saltspray rig is that games get way too campy. In splatzones and turfwars it`s all about getting the mid. In tower control its people falling off the ****** tower. I`ve never played rainmaker in Slatspray so I don`t know how it is. I feel like that it needs some changes so it can be possible to make an actual come back. I still love that stage but splatzones is just..no.Well at least it has an appropriate name :D

 

[Nero86]

For splat zones the top area behind the zone is somewhere I aim to place all my beakons and keep insisting on it until my team finally dominates it.
As a support player I fiercely play to dominate that area and support a safe return point to my teammates.
If they don't come or don't understand I wait until charging Kraken them push to the middle calling them.

 

[birdiebee]

By extension the whole of Saltspray is kind of wonky being the only map with reflective symmetry.

It was one of the first stages conceived during the earlier development of the game, so I don't think they could foresee many of the issues that would come to arise out of its.. unique.. design.

In a way, I kind of like that its different, but the stage is just rough around the edges competitively. It suffers from so many balance issues due to its layout, that it's pretty dreadful in just about every mode. I wish it wasn't, but alas.

 

[Spiderface]

In tower control its people falling off the ****** tower. I`ve never played rainmaker in Slatspray so I don`t know how it is.

Count yourself lucky, it's awful. I've played it twice.... I've only ever seen it in rotation twice actually. And it was within the space of a couple of days. Maybe the people choosing the stages were smoking something. It's terrible because it's fought mostly along the narrow walkways near spawn, so if you're a roller or brush you're screwed because you can't really sneak up on anyone, you can't really flank and if you're cornered there's not really many ways to escape.

I love Rainmaker to death and I'll play it on any other stage, but I hated it on Saltspray so much I just wouldn't ever play if that's what's on rotation.

 

[Anaru]

Maybe the people choosing the stages were smoking something.

I'm pretty sure the stages are randomly generated, excluding the rotations right after a new map, since it would would be weird for Nintendo workers to constantly update the stages manually. Saltspray has been removed from RM and maybe, which is why you don't see it there much. It's the least balanced map since one side can peek and one side can't, and also, the ranked modes don't make much use of the area in the back, so it's pretty much the smallest map, except maybe Blackbelly.

 

[モモコ]

I dunno if it's me, but I've seen people rush to the top of the map and try to take control of it, but when the match ends one team wins because they ink the rest of the map while the other only cared for the top.

that is why i like it for turf war, you can have one team clinging to the top for dear life so ill be like fine ill ink everything else, then a last second push for top to win

on the other side of things i do rush for top first and if i win it I try hold it and ink it all, once trying to defend/cover I go defend it by pushing the paths outside it and climbing those little tower things as needed. So there is no sure win or lose doing either, just whoever does what well is the one that wins.

For RM though it can go rot with the dead octopai I splatted during 1 player never to return to spread anger to us inklings.

I do not see a big issue with rig tc, pit tc has more issues then it, in my view. splatzones though.. seems to favor charger/ dynamo too much.

 

[birdiebee]

I do not see a big issue with rig tc, pit tc has more issues then it

What are your issues with Pit?

 

[モモコ]

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[Flareth]

Funny, I always found the problem to be the opposite: whoever has the upper areas is almost guaranteed to win the game, even if everything else belongs to the other team. Which can be pretty aggravating, as every match there ends up devolving into a ferocious tug-of-war for just that area.

It wouldn't be such a problem if there was more inkable turf to balance things out. That little platform on the bottom and the various ramps & pathways don't really cut it.

 

[モモコ]

Funny, I always found the problem to be the opposite: whoever has the upper areas is almost guaranteed to win the game, even if everything else belongs to the other team. Which can be pretty aggravating, as every match there ends up devolving into a ferocious tug-of-war for just that area.

It wouldn't be such a problem if there was more inkable turf to balance things out. That little platform on the bottom and the various ramps & pathways don't really cut it.

most of the time yes , but what can happen is say 3 v4 the top and able make it a stalemate while the 4th grabs the rest of the map, then at the end (since the 3 v 4 was enough to have a stalemate) now with the 4th actually helping, push a bit at the end for the top and there is nothing the other team can do because most if not all the complete bottom is covered, sometimes the top team does push back a little (superjump/breakons, whatever) but because the bottom team claimed a bit of the top they win. top alone is like about 40%? so you need a bit more then just that section. (most of the time the team holding the top gets some kind of path claimed like the natural route to it from thier spawn.)

But ya as said if the bottom team has everything on the bottom including the natural path of the other team, then they can win without the top.

 

[birdiebee]

Here is my proposed fix for all of the balance issues in this map. Regarding right side peeking, west side advantage, dominance via the top area, anything else.
I think it should undergo an Urchin treatment, but a little more dramatic. Rotate the map instead of reflect it, to make it match the rest of the maps in the game. Saltspray has taught us that reflectional symmetry poses balance issues to the meta in a number of ways, and would be better off undergoing a design change to make it fit the rotational symmetrical design which works so well for all the other maps.

In my attachment, you can see a visual of how this would play out. One change would need to be to make the layout of the blocks in the former "top area" symmetrical on both sides. Since the "top area" is accessed by a ramp, the now halved area would be elevated about to the level of the sniper perches overlooking mid. They could either make the wall inkable or not, but either way, this design looks sound in my opinion.

What do you think about this? Do you think it would fix Saltspray's issues? Are there any other changes you'd make to the layout to accommodate this change?

 

[モモコ]

Here is my proposed fix for all of the balance issues in this map. Regarding right side peeking, west side advantage, dominance via the top area, anything else.
I think it should undergo an Urchin treatment, but a little more dramatic. Rotate the map instead of reflect it, to make it match the rest of the maps in the game. Saltspray has taught us that reflectional symmetry poses balance issues to the meta in a number of ways, and would be better off undergoing a design change to make it fit the rotational symmetrical design which works so well for all the other maps.

In my attachment, you can see a visual of how this would play out. One change would need to be to make the layout of the blocks in the former "top area" symmetrical on both sides. Since the "top area" is accessed by a ramp, the now halved area would be elevated about to the level of the sniper perches overlooking mid. They could either make the wall inkable or not, but either way, this design looks sound in my opinion.

What do you think about this? Do you think it would fix Saltspray's issues? Are there any other changes you'd make to the layout to accommodate this change?View attachment 2976

i say keep tw as is, this change can be for rank, or at least rm, the current rig in rm is pretty unplayable

 

[Flareth]

@モモコ

Right, right, disconnects would make that even more hellish. But, I'd imagine a team with a disconnected player would be pretty swiftly booted from that area. Then the situation gets flipped on its head: the unaffected team can afford to have only 3 squids defending the top area, while the 4th squid can run around the map inking the bottom half.

Now I've never played Ranked Battles on the Rig (save for a few games of Tower Control), so I'll trust your judgement regarding Rainmaker. But I find that Turf Wars are where that particular problem rears its ugly head the most. So I'd be down for @birdiebee's suggestion, albeit I'd see it done a little bit differently (I know at least that the former lower platform should still be full size on each end).

 

[モモコ]

@モモコ

Right, right, disconnects would make that even more hellish. But, I'd imagine a team with a disconnected player would be pretty swiftly booted from that area. Then the situation gets flipped on its head: the unaffected team can afford to have only 3 squids defending the top area, while the 4th squid can run around the map inking the bottom half.

Now I've never played Ranked Battles on the Rig (save for a few games of Tower Control), so I'll trust your judgement regarding Rainmaker. But I find that Turf Wars are where that particular problem rears its ugly head the most. So I'd be down for @birdiebee's suggestion, albeit I'd see it done a little bit differently (I know at least that the former lower platform should still be full size on each end).

This is stupid:

look how little time I took the lead (and look at time left on the clock) We where pretty much losing the full match >.>
c- vs itself wen one team only had short range weapon:

and this is leaving out back end holding. (even with the no rm zone you can still do it) So some videos to see first hand XD so what ya think? (also look at map with all the unink area, even 2 way different situation, random battle is old without RM zone + 4 min match/comback, and second is endgame squad, short match, the ink area is pretty close to being EXACTLY the same) (also compare the dome and rig comeback, in rig i grab in 1:08 time to :54 time to get lead (34 opponent to 30 ours, 136 travel, 2 charge shot. dome, 2:50 to 2:38, where i charge second shot would be around same point, but on rig if it was already ink like dome and escort to help i path, i wouldn't need the second shot. also on rig I stood still a bit while holding charge to try splat opponent because i had no one with me. This is trying to show how small it is and how easy it is to travel 100+ score from goal to goal, they are too close together.) Compare those travels to:

The reason it is fine in tw is because a short range turfing weapon can ink enough turf without charger worry (using both sides, not going in middle, so on) unless the charger is some mlg that is shooting from all spots (like even from the edges of the spawn down) Unlike Rm where most of the battle is in narrow spot where you have no room to move around.

 

[SquiliamTentacles]

I think the main problem with Saltspray is that they tried to adapt a map made for Turf War into a map made for Ranked. In Turf War, I find it a fun, unique map, the giant area at the top brings a new focal point into play, while the narrow passageways and many sniping points give it a lot of variety. Yes, the ledge peeking may be a minor problem, but I find it negligible. The rotational symmetry works well for TW, given the fact TW makes the entire map useful.

In SZ, the map is somewhat crowded and awkward. You are given very few ways to enter the zone, either climbing the wall, dangerously walking up the hill, or going around and taking time to try to flank the other team. Plus, the mode does not use either the bottom, smaller area or the large, upper area, and instead focuses on the crowded middle area. All in all, it is just too crowded for the mode.

TC would be fine if not for the fact that the tower starts moving towards your base. It should be that the farther one goes in TC, the more dangerous it is for the attacking team (as it goes closer to the opponents spawn but farther from yours.) Instead, this reverses the trend, and the already crowded lanes of Saltspray and the awkward angles to shoot the tower make it a poor choice in the mode.

RM suffers the same flaws of Port Mackerel and Blackbelly Skatepark, the main path is too narrow and short. 80% of the time, people try to cross through the bottom lane, which is a crowded mess of boxes and turns. Have fun dodging attacks here, especially the blasts from the Rainmaker. Secondly, the path is so short, it makes it too easy to score points.

 

[NovaScienceNever]

Here is my proposed fix for all of the balance issues in this map. Regarding right side peeking, west side advantage, dominance via the top area, anything else.
I think it should undergo an Urchin treatment, but a little more dramatic. Rotate the map instead of reflect it, to make it match the rest of the maps in the game. Saltspray has taught us that reflectional symmetry poses balance issues to the meta in a number of ways, and would be better off undergoing a design change to make it fit the rotational symmetrical design which works so well for all the other maps.

In my attachment, you can see a visual of how this would play out. One change would need to be to make the layout of the blocks in the former "top area" symmetrical on both sides. Since the "top area" is accessed by a ramp, the now halved area would be elevated about to the level of the sniper perches overlooking mid. They could either make the wall inkable or not, but either way, this design looks sound in my opinion.

What do you think about this? Do you think it would fix Saltspray's issues? Are there any other changes you'd make to the layout to accommodate this change?View attachment 2976

But it doesn't really look like an oil rig anymore, similar to how urchin underpass just barely looks like an underpass after the redesign. You'd have to keep it's somewhat squarish dimensions intact so that it actually feels like you're on an oil rig.

 

[birdiebee]

But it doesn't really look like an oil rig anymore, similar to how urchin underpass just barely looks like an underpass after the redesign. You'd have to keep it's somewhat squarish dimensions intact so that it actually feels like you're on an oil rig.

I realized that, and I agree, I just think for the sake of balance and playability it should be changed first and foremost. But very true and good point.

 

[Chaos_Knight]

Here is my proposed fix for all of the balance issues in this map. Regarding right side peeking, west side advantage, dominance via the top area, anything else.
I think it should undergo an Urchin treatment, but a little more dramatic. Rotate the map instead of reflect it, to make it match the rest of the maps in the game. Saltspray has taught us that reflectional symmetry poses balance issues to the meta in a number of ways, and would be better off undergoing a design change to make it fit the rotational symmetrical design which works so well for all the other maps.

In my attachment, you can see a visual of how this would play out. One change would need to be to make the layout of the blocks in the former "top area" symmetrical on both sides. Since the "top area" is accessed by a ramp, the now halved area would be elevated about to the level of the sniper perches overlooking mid. They could either make the wall inkable or not, but either way, this design looks sound in my opinion.

What do you think about this? Do you think it would fix Saltspray's issues? Are there any other changes you'd make to the layout to accommodate this change?View attachment 2976

Hmm...I dunno. That layout makes me think of the old Urchin Underpass a little bit. You know, where you would lock out the other team in their own base with small space to go through.

I see what you're going for, but for some reason it just makes the map kinda crowded now.