Bomb Trickery

[Ryuji]

With seekers I rarely see anyone besides carbon rollers use them. Rarer still, I hardly see anyone swimming in a seeker's ink trail. Does anyone does this at all/anymore?

It happens but I dont see it very often. I dont think people 'ride' the seeker anymore because it makes you an open target. People expect you to be there and therefore start shooting at the seeker. You can't really escape when that happens so it's basically a free kill.

 

[MeTaGross]

I would not judge something useful or not just because you quote low skill play/low observant? the point in trying to explain all the short comings is oping they are more likely to buff it, not accepting something with a so low use and you can say oh you use it here or there. Ink mines are not completely useless sure and some creative use can actually make some use of them but it is still the weakest sub by far. Most if not all, you can use splat bombs, suction bombs and even splash walls (super jump trap) can be used the same ways you can use ink mines but they have other uses on top of it. ink mines are simply too narrow use.

Well, seekers are awful too, but we haven't hated on them yet. Seekers are good for making a path and maybe pressure, but that is it. They are easy to dodge, only travel on the ground, only seek when the enemy isn't hiding and explode when they touch anything. The last part is bad because you can hit a rail or corner and they explode too early, essentially wasting them. Point sensors have also been naturally buffed by the meta. Almost everybody has cold blooded, so you can see them for a few seconds and then it is gone. Suction bombs can pressure, that is all they do.

Splat bombs are very versatile and can be used well in many ways, but burst bombs are easily the best bomb. They can kill the fastest and you can always hit with them.

Besides, if ink mines were buffed then people would have to start using bomb sniffer. *Sarcasm*

 

[Squix]

Lol, I spam seekers and everywhere, and I usually swim in their trails. Not into a sea of enemy ink, obviously, but I still swim in them. Just make sure to stack a ton of swim speed ups. Otherwise, it's not really useful for too much, maybe aside from pressuring the opponents and killing players when they are not looking. Seeker bomb rush however... that's a whole other subject. Like, you're spawncamped on, let's say, Alfonsino. You get your special, and then go down undr your spawn. You activate it, start strafing and spamming seekers while doing it. Then you move forward, and you'll have flushed out the whole enemy team.

 

[モモコ]

Well, seekers are awful too, but we haven't hated on them yet. Seekers are good for making a path and maybe pressure, but that is it. They are easy to dodge, only travel on the ground, only seek when the enemy isn't hiding and explode when they touch anything. The last part is bad because you can hit a rail or corner and they explode too early, essentially wasting them. Point sensors have also been naturally buffed by the meta. Almost everybody has cold blooded, so you can see them for a few seconds and then it is gone. Suction bombs can pressure, that is all they do.

Splat bombs are very versatile and can be used well in many ways, but burst bombs are easily the best bomb. They can kill the fastest and you can always hit with them.

Besides, if ink mines were buffed then people would have to start using bomb sniffer. *Sarcasm*

burst bombs make use bomb sniffer, not ink mines. I really do not understand why someone will call seekers weak.. if you use them at the right time, everything you said does not become "easy"

 

[buttfield]

General Tech:
Flushing - Opponents concealing themselves behind cover can be forced from their hiding spots with Splat/Suction/Burst Bombs.

Burst Bombs:
Quick Kills - Burst Bombs can often deal a single hit with greater damage, speed, and consistency than some main weapons, reducing kill times significantly. This ability is improved by Damage Up, and can be used to great effect with the SS, L-3 D, and Slosher.

Splat Bombs:
Rolling - Throwing a Splat Bomb at a low horizontal angle allows it to roll on the ground for a significant distance, often detonating around the time it rolls to a stop, which can be used to great effect in mid-range combat.

Ink Mines:
:^) - Mines are best placed in spots where enemies will not suspect until it's too late, most notably around blind corners and underneath ledges.

 

[Spiderface]

I love burst bombs. As a Carbon Roller main, I love splatting long ranged weapons with them. I sneak up on chargers at their little camp and burst bomb them. I also love throwing them over things to pressure opponents.

If I'm far away from someone I want to splat, I usually throw a bomb at them first and then jump all up in their face to splat them with my roller.

I get a crazy amount of kills just randomly hurling a bunch of them over a wall where I know the enemy's hiding.

I like to intimidate the other team and I think they really help.

 

[MeTaGross]

Ink mines are not completely useless sure and some creative use can actually make some use of them but it is still the weakest sub by far.

if you use them at the right time, everything you said does not become "easy"

Notice how you say "at the right time" just like I can say use them in the right way. Seekers are an offensive sub and ink mines are a defensive sub, and they are both bad if you use them the wrong way. You can't say something is bad without giving reasons. I gave reasons I don't like seekers and you gave one reason ink mines are bad.

 

[buttfield]

ink mines are simply too narrow use.

I wouldn't say the issue with Mines stems from lack of versatility. Its problems are more attributable to the single-mine limit, and the absolute inability to place another until the first detonates. While spammable mines would obviously be problematic, Mines with a higher ink cost and less stifling number limit (knowing their lifespan, a cost of 85-90% would probably limit the maximum mines at once to ~4-5, even with nothing but Saver Sub/Recovery) might be more workable than what's currently around.

Seekers are an offensive sub and ink mines are a defensive sub, and they are both bad if you use them the wrong way. You can't say something is bad without giving reasons. I gave reasons I don't like seekers and you gave one reason ink mines are bad.

Seekers aren't much for direct killing, certainly, but they're good for pressuring and setup, particularly due to spreading so much ink without many real countermeasures, and how the most reliable means of dodging them requires that you step into their trail.

 

[Skoodge]

Many people forget that seekers are great at popping the rainmaker shield. I think this is why I am seeing a resurgence of the aerospray is in S+, since seeker/inkzooka is a powerful combination in that mode. I also like it, since it feels closest to the single player for me, since I speed run a bit, and you pretty much only use seekers and inkzooka.

I personally think that the new fresh squiffer is going to be great, since you can force enemies into easy shots with the suction bombs. Suction bombs will also allow it to pop the rainmaker insanely fast, probably the fastest of any weapon. Also let it combat the .96 deco well, since the suction bomb will destroy the wall, or player quickly, and then get a snipe. These are more specific observations than this thread had intended, but they are relevant to the bombs in general.

 

[buttfield]

Many people forget that seekers are great at popping the rainmaker shield. I think this is why I am seeing a resurgence of the aerospray is in S+, since seeker/inkzooka is a powerful combination in that mode.

I'd be hesitant to say this, honestly. While Seekers can break the shield akin to Splat/Suction Bombs, they're also costlier, have a longer delay between throws in a Rush, and are really only useful for a final blow to the shield.

 

[TeaBee]

These are more specific observations than this thread had intended, but they are relevant to the bombs in general.

That may be, but I find all of this helpful. It's good to hear from someone else's perspective on this.

 

[Saber]

Splat Bomb tech:
Reverse bomb jump- this one isn't all that hard if you can do the "getaway driver" technique, if someone spots you on a ledge, jump and quickly push back and land back on the ledge, drop the bomb on the edge of the ledge and jump off again.
Most people will notice you jump off and chance after you without realize you did this and swim/ jump right into the bomb

 

[Floating Eyeball]

I think Seekers main benefit isn't splatting (though you can still get quite a few in the right situations), but pressure. Throw some down a longer passage and they have to switch routes or wait for it to pass. And with enough and , you can do this pretty regularly. Port Mackerel's a good example of this, but most zones have some sort of route for it.

You can also use that pressure to splat someone. A Seeker on its own isn't great for splatting, but throw one out and start shooting and people have to pick their poison or stay hidden, and since it inks up, their area for hiding gets narrowed down.

TC can actually work out somewhat well for Seekers. Since Seekers explode on contact, it's easier to hit someone with them on the tower, where they work like OHKO Burst Bombs. But I wouldn't ever pick them over something like Suction Bombs, and since those're pretty common, it's not really worth trying.

Seekers actually can go up the wall in some zones, as long as there's somewhat of a ramp there. It's not majorly useful, but it's nice in some zones. Arowana Mall is a pretty obvious place for this (it's good for most tricks involving Seekers), especially in RM: There are two ramps to the side that usually offer nice perches, so someone is usually already up there and coming down to try to get the RM away from the goal. A seeker up the ramp might not splat them, but you can at least stop them from coming down stealthily, and you can keep them from charging straight ahead from their spawn.

Bluefin Depot is another good spot. That wall with the boards in front of it? Those actually work as a ramp. Again, not a great trick, since it doesn't go up all the way, but in Splat Zones, it's good for closing off an entrance, and keeping a charger a little distracted. And if you can make it up throwing from the far end, you can climb up with a fairly full tank of ink without worrying about getting splatted as you shoot at the wall.

Both these zones have a couple tricks of their own as well: Arowana Mall's ramps can make the Seeker more of a surprise, and Bluefin Depot RM usually passes over a grate by the water, so there's no easy way to dodge them.

Walleye Warehouse is one I'm surprised Seekers don't show up in more often. There's a ramp up to their spawn for RM, and that narrow passage people like, and the extra speed at getting to the center is great for most ranked. You can hide off to the side and splat enemies from there rather than get into the battle and hope you can get around the boxes. Since most of them will be focused on the goal, getting splatted will be a little more unexpected, and you can usually either take them by surprise or get them distracted enough for your team to take control.

The lock-on can be avoided, but like the Seeker itself, you don't have to use it for the original offensive purpose. Hold R before sending it out and look around a little, and you can get an easier way to see any enemies nearby. Naturally, someone could be swimming, but without knowing that they're being watched, they're bound to pop out for at least a little bit, so you can know how many enemies to expect.

And if any of these tricks are new to your opponent, things are much easier for you.
The huge ink cost is a big problem for Seekers, obviously. I usually run a main of and never realized how bad it got until I was using a new set. I think that and the rareness of Seekers leaves us without many real reasons to try to get creative with them, and so there's not much to try to counter, so it ends up being less useful. The situational-ness of it doesn't help, either. (Hammerhead Bridge is awful for them)
(I've repeated some of these points elsewhere on the boards, sorry for that)

 

[Vitezen]

@Floating Eyeball You claim that seekers lock down long corridors, but all a player has to do is jump over them. I will never go down a different passage if I know I'm staring someone down whose only strategy is to throw easily dodged projectiles. You could say that they're easy to use to kill someone when they turn a corner and run into them, but the same can be said for almost every weapon and sub in the game.

 

[TeaBee]

(I've repeated some of these points elsewhere on the boards, sorry for that)

That's okay, it's nice to hear more ideas about seekers. They're useful on flat terrain, corridors, or ramps. I'd use them more, if it weren't for walls.

 

[TeaBee]

@Floating Eyeball You claim that seekers lock down long corridors, but all a player has to do is jump over them.

Do you mean one seeker or a group of them? Yesterday, I took a chance and tried to jump pass three seekers in Port Mackerel. Let's just say it didn't end well.

 

[Skoodge]

Actually one other use for seekers, is that they are the only sub weapon that instantly explodes on the tower, and can one hit kill, since you can throw them at the pole on the tower. Otherwise splat bombs, and mines take about the same time, suction bombs a long time, and then burst bombs take at fewest 2 hits to kill. So yes seekers have some use, but to be better they would need to use way less ink than they do now.

 

[Floating Eyeball]

You claim that seekers lock down long corridors, but all a player has to do is jump over them. I will never go down a different passage if I know I'm staring someone down whose only strategy is to throw easily dodged projectiles. You could say that they're easy to use to kill someone when they turn a corner and run into them, but the same can be said for almost every weapon and sub in the game.

You're right that you can jump over them, and you're right that it's not going to do much on its own. But the Seeker doesn't have to be used without anything to back it up, that's why I talked about it being useful more for pressure rather than just being offensive. It'd be bad to rely on just a Seeker to totally stop someone, and it couldn't hold down a corridor, but it will certainly slow them from going that way, and it leaves you with a better opportunity to go in and splat them yourself.

(I realize how little I talked about this and how I made it seem like the Seeker was enough on its own, I should have elaborated more on this situation, my apologies.)

Personally, I think swimming to get away is a better habit to have with Seekers rather than jumping. Jumping still leaves you clearly visible and has the risk of misjudging it somehow and getting splatted or falling, while swimming ensures it won't hit you (as long as you don't run into it) and can send it going down a path where it won't be as useful. I can certainly see the benefits of jumping, though, you can continue to shoot at them and don't rely on being in ink as much, which is good for being on grates or against someone who knows how to find someone in their ink.

Actually one other use for seekers, is that they are the only sub weapon that instantly explodes on the tower, and can one hit kill, since you can throw them at the pole on the tower. Otherwise splat bombs, and mines take about the same time, suction bombs a long time, and then burst bombs take at fewest 2 hits to kill. So yes seekers have some use, but to be better they would need to use way less ink than they do now.

It can be useful, but I would only take Seekers for TC in a zone where I know they'll be useful as well or where there's a chance for Seekers to land on the tower or can be thrown off of it fairly well. Otherwise, most other subs are better, lesser ink cost and they can be thrown through the air, which is better for defending the tower at a distance.

 

[MeTaGross]

I've finally gone mainstream and started using the neo luna instead of the regular. I will say splat bombs use much less ink than I thought and can be used a pressure very easily just by throwing them at the ground and forward. Plus there are multiple weapons with splat bomb rush. That's cool.

 

[Vitezen]

@Floating Eyeball I understand what you're saying about pressure, but I wouldn't consider seekers to be a weapon that exerts much pressure. They demand attention, because you have to jump over them to continue your approach, but this doesn't prevent you from doing important actions like shooting, dodging, or watching your sides.

A great example of a pressure tool is the bubbler. If you trigger the bubbler while in combat, you are always putting your opponent in a bad position, by forcing them to choose between two suboptimal options. They can either shoot you away, which will protect them from you but allow them to be flanked by another enemy who they probably won't notice, or flee from an invincible opponent with a full ink tank who is probably already in close range. Now compare these two options to seekers, where the opponent can simply jump over them and continue as usual. Sure, there is the possibility that they may make a mistake and die, but relying on your opponent to have bad motor skills or guess wrong isn't a consistent strategy.