coolerless comps

RubberCF

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I think that an interesting way to kind of replicate the effects of cooler without having cooler would be tenacity and stacking a bit of special saver. One of the big reasons cooler is so effective is how it effects resources, i.e. special charge. Dying usually slows down a team by reducing their speial charge, but if everyone has tenacity on, dying (or more specifically going into a numbers disadvantage) gives everyone 4.32 points per second per down teammate, which is more than the passive charge you get from riding tower. And if players stack some special saver (which stacks very well so you dont need a bunch), even if they also die after a teammate does theyll retain a good portion of the points they gained, and it will further reduce the resources lost from dying.
Its mostly just an interesting idea ive had for a while, but since tenacity got buffed (it was literally doubled in effectiveness) i think it has potential as a legitimate way to effect the natural flow of a game, in a kinda similar way to how cooler does. And if you arent using cooler, everyone who dies is down for the full 7.5 seconds, which helps tenacity get more use. I think if a team did try this theyd be suprised by their special output and ability to counterpush, assuming the team is good at not wiping when things go bad.
To add a bit to this, i think this would fit best for rm specifically, bc unless you get to a checkpoint/goal, every rm push *will* result in a downed teammate
 

Akainacephalus

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yeh like i said
i literally play coolerless and we went 2-3 vs seed 2 of sfpk today so it can be done and if you like eliter by all means do what u want

i will say u should strongly consider picking up firefin, the wall and faster charge time will help tremendously against faster teams that cooler rush you, strikes is all around better than wb, and wall will also let you push up on the map to give you more chances to hunt the pencil

there are chargers around my level that also avoid pencil, but they usually only play liter on the maps where it's super hard to displace (e.g. museum zones)
im not a fan of firefin, ill run vcharger for rm and some clams maps but im more consistent with liter. idk if its a placebo thing but im way more consistent with liter, i swear it has better shot velocity or something. its a skill issue it takes too much thinking to use a wall, i'd rather just be out of their range than to worry about placing a good wall, or have bombs for displacing/forcing people into my line of sight
 

RubberCF

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im not a fan of firefin, ill run vcharger for rm and some clams maps but im more consistent with liter. idk if its a placebo thing but im way more consistent with liter, i swear it has better shot velocity or something. its a skill issue it takes too much thinking to use a wall, i'd rather just be out of their range than to worry about placing a good wall, or have bombs for displacing/forcing people into my line of sight
Fully charged liter shots move at 9.6 units per frame, fully charged splat charger shots only move at 4.8 units per frame. 4.8 is still super fast, like, second only to liter.
 

Akainacephalus

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Fully charged liter shots move at 9.6 units per frame, fully charged splat charger shots only move at 4.8 units per frame. 4.8 is still super fast, like, second only to liter.
thats probably why, i used to play through a capture card until recently, delay and all, so i was probably carried by liter's shot velocity when i had to predict movement more xD
 

Tornado

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my team, eggshells, has been experimenting with coolerless comps since we only had one dedicated cooler player who would often sub out due to IRL circumstances. i was the second candidate for playing cooler as the charger player (i'd switch to pencil), but i HATED it. so, a few days ago we decided, screw cooler, lets just play without it. it was very successful in scrims, and today we tested it out in tournament (Squids for Palestinian Kids) and we went 3-0 in groups and tied for 9th in top cut! we lost to seed 2 but the games didn't even feel unwinnable. we've all had a resurgence in motivation for the game and even had an upset on a team we've struggled to beat previously while running coolerless.

what's your opinion on coolerless comps? do they work for you or do you depend on them?
To put it quite simply

Cooler isnt mandatory for Low-Mid level teams and some High level teams may have a work around but considering cooler is a special that only gets better and better the more coordinated you become almost exponetialy it does say alot for how good it is at top level

its been so good infact that some teams are running double cooler, and ik this isnt a big thing in the west but competative turf war is seeing alot more double cooler

the thing cooler does is it reduces the impact of errors while offering new strategies such as rapid super jumping, specails straight back after death and ability to rush down players with the improved mobility.
 

SnowySprig

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my team, eggshells, has been experimenting with coolerless comps since we only had one dedicated cooler player who would often sub out due to IRL circumstances. i was the second candidate for playing cooler as the charger player (i'd switch to pencil), but i HATED it. so, a few days ago we decided, screw cooler, lets just play without it. it was very successful in scrims, and today we tested it out in tournament (Squids for Palestinian Kids) and we went 3-0 in groups and tied for 9th in top cut! we lost to seed 2 but the games didn't even feel unwinnable. we've all had a resurgence in motivation for the game and even had an upset on a team we've struggled to beat previously while running coolerless.

what's your opinion on coolerless comps? do they work for you or do you depend on them?
my personal playstyle leans a lot more towards how coolerless would play, but i still find success with cooler. i think the biggest issue rn with cooler is people constantly running it to cover up bad habits, and therefore not improving in the places they need to be (which also kinda leads into people not knowing when to differentiate between experimenting/improving and playing to win but thats a whole other discussion i could start). that's one reason why i was really interested when i heard from bear you guys were going coolerless, i knew for a fact your team would improve a lot more quickly because of it (and grats on that btw!).

i think cooler being "required" is a scam anywhere beyond top level and maybe high high level, but I suspect it is very much required at top level

the thing about cooler is that it's super broken when you're playing on the bleeding edge of efficiency, because I think it just totally breaks your team's special output and continuous fighting capacity (in a good way)

but unless everyone on your team knows how to jump in + give jumps + is extremely efficient about their special use and everything else, i really don't feel like it's necessary
cooler being "required" has been a huge scam for a while now, and like i said i think it gets in the way of people actually improving because of how cooler obscures bad habits by making them less punishing and leading people to think theyre smaller issues. but i do agree that at/near top level, when youre maximally effecient with your time and space, cooler is most likely required. I just wish people understood more that if youre not at/near that top level, youd get more out of playing without cooler, especially if your weapon doesnt benefit much from it.
 

zyf_

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cooler being "required" has been a huge scam for a while now, and like i said i think it gets in the way of people actually improving because of how cooler obscures bad habits by making them less punishing and leading people to think theyre smaller issues. but i do agree that at/near top level, when youre maximally effecient with your time and space, cooler is most likely required. I just wish people understood more that if youre not at/near that top level, youd get more out of playing without cooler, especially if your weapon doesnt benefit much from it.
i mean i don't fully agree with that either lol, I think cooler is strong for a reason and i think it's unfair to call it just a crutch/claim that you should intentionally avoid running it to "get better faster"
really I wish people would stop giving so much importance to comps in general

starburst or jackpot could probably beat you running quad big swig and thats b/c they're better at the game than you, just learn the tools you want to use well and get used to that learning process
but also be cognizant that if they're not meta it's cuz they have shortcomings, and in the longer term it's foolish to overlook that

I onetricked jr for like 2 years, including at the beginning of s3, but I dropped it when I recognized I wasn't getting the value I wanted out of it due to several bad patches
so now i'm on tek
 

SnowySprig

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i mean i don't fully agree with that either lol, I think cooler is strong for a reason and i think it's unfair to call it just a crutch/claim that you should intentionally avoid running it to "get better faster"
sorry if my language was vague, cus thats not exactly what i was getting at /gen. what i more meant was people are using cooler as a crutch, not that it inherently is one. but still because of that, its harder for people to understand where they need to improve at because of how cooler works. as a midlevel player, its something i see a lot of people stuck with, because they constantly play with cooler and only in pickups, and dont really see how some of their faults are affecting their games because of cooler's effect on teamplay. theres a bigger discussion to be had about effectively playing to improve over playing to purely win, but a lot of what i see in midlevel would be fixed if people played less to win with cooler constantly and more to improve their awareness, teamplay, or coordination. we can agree to disagree on this, because like i said, this is mostly based on my observations of midlevel players lacking everything but mechanics, as a midlevel player who is the inverse of that.

starburst or jackpot could probably beat you running quad big swig and thats b/c they're better at the game than you, just learn the tools you want to use well and get used to that learning process
i never claimed those top teams wouldnt beat me, and im more talking about improvement here (this point just feels out of left field to me in general?). my point is there are tools (ie map awareness, teammate awareness, playstyle synergy, fight coordination, etc) that you use in this game regardless of specific strategy, regardless of having cooler or not, that you will have to get as good at as you possibly can to be at the top, and cooler often obscures those tools to many players. said players put less focus on those tools, and think cooler will fill in for their shortcomings in those tools, when in reality what wins most often is cooler in tandem with said tools. therefore, if these players want to improve more, they should use cooler less to make them less reliant on how they use it as a crutch. again, this is mostly based off my observations of other midlevel players, as a midlevel player, but it seems to be a thought process people bring from low level and dont think twice about.
 

zyf_

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sorry if my language was vague, cus thats not exactly what i was getting at /gen. what i more meant was people are using cooler as a crutch, not that it inherently is one. but still because of that, its harder for people to understand where they need to improve at because of how cooler works. as a midlevel player, its something i see a lot of people stuck with, because they constantly play with cooler and only in pickups, and dont really see how some of their faults are affecting their games because of cooler's effect on teamplay. theres a bigger discussion to be had about effectively playing to improve over playing to purely win, but a lot of what i see in midlevel would be fixed if people played less to win with cooler constantly and more to improve their awareness, teamplay, or coordination. we can agree to disagree on this, because like i said, this is mostly based on my observations of midlevel players lacking everything but mechanics, as a midlevel player who is the inverse of that.



i never claimed those top teams wouldnt beat me, and im more talking about improvement here (this point just feels out of left field to me in general?). my point is there are tools (ie map awareness, teammate awareness, playstyle synergy, fight coordination, etc) that you use in this game regardless of specific strategy, regardless of having cooler or not, that you will have to get as good at as you possibly can to be at the top, and cooler often obscures those tools to many players. said players put less focus on those tools, and think cooler will fill in for their shortcomings in those tools, when in reality what wins most often is cooler in tandem with said tools. therefore, if these players want to improve more, they should use cooler less to make them less reliant on how they use it as a crutch. again, this is mostly based off my observations of other midlevel players, as a midlevel player, but it seems to be a thought process people bring from low level and dont think twice about.
sorry, the second part of my comment was directed at the general "you" of people that focus (imo too much) on making "good" comps, I think you and I are on the same page about that

my contention to your post was that you seemed (seem) to be suggesting that people are using cooler as a crutch, therefore they should stop running cooler

my point is, use cooler cuz its really friggin strong, unless you have an explicit reason not to, but also, focus on the other things you're talking about
imo not running cooler will not fix anything for those types of ppl using it as a crutch cuz theyll find a new one somehow
so if you're gonna be a crutch player, you may as well use the best crutch, and if you wanna get off your crutches, you don't need to make a change to your comp to learn, and you'll probably do better along the way if you're using the strongest tools
 

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