Early Thoughts on Balance Changes (Ver. 9.0.0)

[isaac4]

There's not a lot to say but I'll list my separate thoughts on how I feel about the balance changes now that we've gotten a chance to try them out.

• I don't play Squeezer so it's hard for me to tell how big of a change the nerfs were just from using the weapon but it's definitely been hit the hardest. It'll still be a pain to fight though and will obviously stay top tier but the nerfs it got were good.
• The radius nerf is definitely felt if you play enough RB but I don't think it's anything too noticeable. Other weapons will be able to escape from being two-shot more easily especially with the paint nerf but RB should be fine. I will say that the PFS nerf on CRB did end up affecting some of my matches where I was close to getting Kraken but died before I could. Not sure how much that actually matters though but I thought it was worth mentioning here.
• The paint nerf on Pencil was harsher than I thought it would be so that seems like it'll actually impact its Cooler output. The weapon still has a lot of gear freedom though so it won't be hard to stack a lot of SCU to make up for it. They should have also made Cooler 220p but I guess Machine with Booyah was a bigger problem for them.
• Slosher ink efficiency nerf isn't that bad but it does make it harder for Slosher to fight against multiple enemy players. Something that Machine also struggles with so the transition here shouldn't be difficult for me, especially since Slosher has some gear freedom to work with. The real nerf here is Tri-Strike output because of 210p on top of the weaker ink efficiency but Slosher shouldn't have been farming for Strikes anyway.
• I can't tell the difference for how Edit paints now but from what I've heard it isn't a significant change. I wish I had more to say about it but I don't play this weapon.
• I have to be honest, I didn't even bother testing out Wellstring. Not sure why it would matter when your specials are Ultra Stamp and Wave Breaker.
• They finally nerfed the startup of Zooka and I have to say, I can definitely feel the difference. Those 5 frames really did end up mattering (rip Machine) and I could see it forcing better positioning from players before using it but I don't think the nerf makes the startup slow enough for panic Zooka to stop being a thing.

 

[OnePotWonder]

I personally quite like the Squeezer and Range Blaster nerfs. Both weapons have been rebalanced such that I can remove them from the list of weapons I dislike.

The Snipewriter and Heavy Edit Splatling nerfs seem reasonable for their respective weapons, I only wish that they would have also nerfed N-ZAP. Now the weapon is equally viable compared to the other two despite not deserving it in the slightest.

I don’t hate the Slosher and Wellstring V nerfs, but some compensation buffs would have been nice, such as 10p less for Slosher Deco’s Zipcaster and a bit more direct damage for Wellstring V’s fully charged arrows.

Overall, good patch. I still crave more changes, however.

 

[Grushi]

There's honestly not much I've noticed after the patch came out except for the squeezer and RB nerfs being more meaningful than I thought.

After fighting a few of these, the squeezer strafe speed nerf was definitely understated. That's a big mobility nerf, even on run speed squeezers the weapon is significantly easier to hit. It actually feels kind of vulnerable up close.

And RB definitely has its moments where I'm expecting to get hit but I don't. It's also easier to close the gap to not get hit by the aoe anymore. I've heard from Miky (one of the best RB players) that he doesn't really feel the nerf but while fighting RBs it's noticeable for sure.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

The Snipewriter and Heavy Edit Splatling nerfs seem reasonable for their respective weapons, I only wish that they would have also nerfed N-ZAP. Now the weapon is equally viable compared to the other two despite not deserving it in the slightest.

Most of your post I agree with, but... isn't them being equally viable the goal? Does n-zap somehow "deserve" to be worse?

 

[McSquid82]

I would say that the Snipewriter's paint nerf was exactly what it needed. It's still a solid painting charger, just not OP like it used to be. I'm also glad it kept its range because while it might be the same range as Splatterscope it can't 1 shot like that weapon can. This patch toned back the more annoying aspects of this weapon while preserving its fighting capability which is how it should be.

 

[OnePotWonder]

Most of your post I agree with, but... isn't them being equally viable the goal? Does n-zap somehow "deserve" to be worse?

It will be explained in my shooter post, but ultimately N-ZAP is far too easy to deserve being as viable as the charging Tacticooler weapons, or any of the other ones for that matter.

 

[DzNutsKong]

A few random thoughts. Assume I can't comment on anything that isn't explicitly mentioned here, mostly from a lack of experience against some things after the patch.

• I know two different Squeezer players who are both quite good at the game and both of them have said they don't really feel the nerfs. One of them in particular was afraid of the Stamper matchup but I think Splash Wall will just become all the more important there. The nerfs are there for sure but Squeezer should still be playable.
• Slosher's changes seem negligible which is good honestly. It'll definitely still be a slap on the wrist but the weapon doesn't need to be toned back.
• I find it pretty funny how surprised the general public was that Wellstring got nerfed yet several people here predicted it lmao. Haven't run into one of these so I can't say how much the nerf did but good stuff people
• Apparently the latency buff was huge for Ultra Stamp?? Apparently it can actually block Shooter or Shooter-adjacent shots from the front now. It still sucks against Chargers and I have to imagine Snipewriter is still at least viable but if the opposing team doesn't have one it might not be bad as an actual entry tool, especially on maps like Robo ROM-en where a lot of people bunch together fairly easily.

Not much else to say really. I hope backline diversity goes up after this but am fine with the game not changing super drastically.

 

[OnePotWonder]

The Ultra Stamp buffs have got me a little worried, but also a little excited. There are a lot of weapons that would benefit greatly from having their Ultra Stamps be usable, and the only one I don't like is Sploosh. I don't like the special itself much either, but it might be able to redeem itself.

 

[chaotik0]

squeezer's range nerf was so noticeable it was the first thing i checked and i instantly saw a difference (maybe i just play it too much). i wish i got a more exact point of where it was before but i forgot to. now, at the point where your cursor tells you your shots connect (which means you get your full damage shot no falloff) is the same range that forge hits its farthest falloff shots
i used to be able to get away with a lot that felt like shouldnt have been possible, thats the part that feels a little harder which i think is really good, other than that it doesnt feel that bad

as for zooka this change did not seem to do much at all. im still able to get away with the most bs instant zooka picks, i didnt even have to think about how i should use it slightly earlier to compensate for the nerf. it did not change how i use the special at all which is see good zooka spot and murder instantly and i feel like thats what was wanted to be changed the most, right?

i also dont notice anything with rb making it feel worse or harder to play
the radius is still very good and i havent had a moment where i thought something that should hit didnt (or maybe im just so insane at hitting my shots i never noticed the change hehe )
the biggest thing that feels worse is the special output but even then it isnt that bad, and its specials are only a wavebreaker and kraken anyway

to be fair none of the weapons i play the most have ever been hit by as giant a nerf as, just as an example here, machine's firerate getting nerfed to be 5/60 of a second (5 frames) slower in patch 4.0.0 released on may 30th 2023, so maybe this are how most nerfs are supposed to be

actually the kraken nerf did make it feel a lot worse to play that was still so stupid of a change they didnt even try to do something actually good

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

machine's firerate getting nerfed to be 12/60 of a second (5 frames)

...12/60 of a second would be 12 frames?

 

[chaotik0]

...12/60 of a second would be 12 frames?

i uhmmm brain malfunction my bad lol
i literally checked the patch to see what it said and immediately misremembered it as i was typing it in how is it even possible to be that st

 

[briank913]

I love how Dread and Ultra Stamp are unintentional winners of this, and so marks the beginning of Sploosh's ascension to godhood. I also love that Stamper remains untouched despite being a popular candidate for nerf speculations.

I've been hearing from some people that HEdit is basically gutted now. In the training lobby, the difference doesn't seem to be much. However, after playing Edit yesterday, I can see why some people would think this. I need to do more testing myself but the difference honestly may be bigger than I thought, at least in practice.

As for Trizooka, the difference seems negligible really. I can hardly tell the difference between 8.1 Zooka and 9.0. Granted 5 frames isn't a lot but I'm not sure if that'll make as big of an impact as people hope.

Pencil does have a noticeable difference. However, because I don't play Pencil, I'm not sure if this will affect its presence. I would love to see other backline weapons at a tournament setting.

All the others I have absolutely 0 authority to say anything about.

 

[OnePotWonder]

So. I tried out recently-nerfed Squeezer.
I am now a Foil Squeezer player. Unabashedly and unashamedly, now that it’s no longer a completely overpowered ultraweapon. It feels nice to finally have all three semi-autos in a state where they can be called well-designed, even if not all of them are good. Though it does seem that L-3 D has been added to the list.
This may be a very fun patch for me specifically.