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How often is it worth it to hop on the tower

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by Mar$el, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. Mar$el

    Mar$el Inkling Commander

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    I've been thinking about this for a while. I don't really do it all that often and I keep thinking about it since my brother was watching me play tower control and him being a more aggressive player he was saying to get on the tower and then again like 45 seconds later. It hit me then that I never get on the tower unless it's like the last 30 seconds of the match and we're losing. I always hang back and kill people and wait for someone else to hop on and then depending on weapon I shark around or kill flankers or just offer support in general maybe hopping on if it's all clear during a push.

    Anyways, in the first situation, he was totally right. It was Manta Maria, we were in the lead in like the last third of the match. I just killed 2 or 3 people with a range blaster and it was 3v1 (the last person was nowhere to be found). I was caught dumbfound by my brother as I was waiting on the wall under the middle rail to shark someone. I realized I was just waiting for someone else and by the time I realized I should have they respawned and came from another way and I traded with a roller getting on the tower. They then proceeded to push overwhelmed our team to take the lead. In the midst of the overwhelming they left the tower when they were about 15 points away from the lead so my reaction was to keep killing the mob of people so we can take back control and everything will be fine. I was 1v1ing someone with the tower between us and my brother again said to hop on the tower and hop off to send it back. I killed the guy but immediately after the roller confronted me and I died. They got the tower back and pushed to the lead. So in the moment I decided what I was doing was more important than pushing the objective. I was a range blaster and we had a brush that could help kill people around the tower during a push, and a forge pro that could be on the tower and then using bubbles or something (I don't remember the last one).

    ANYWAYS, I thought about it. I was the only person in mid in the first instance. My teammates were almost there. Should I have gotten on? Still don't really know but probably. I could've gotten ambushed by the one guy alive or my teammates could've caught up and we would have pushed the tower further.
    In the second instance, had I hopped on it would have been suicide. I know that much.

    BUT HERE ARE THE ACTUAL QUESTIONS
    : When should you hop on the tower? When shouldn't you hop on the tower? When should you really try to push (as opposed to just making the tower further from mid so the other team has to push further for the lead)? When should you just hop on to send it back? When do you sacrifice yourself for the objective?
     
  2. Super Nintendo Chalmers

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    Lots of variables but a couple of things I look out for:

    Numerical advantage:
    Usually there is a better chance of having a good run with more significant numbers(4>2, etc), so that is a good time to get on the tower if suitable. Always keeping an eye on how many players are active.

    Match conditions:
    If you hold a significant lead with 15 seconds to go it does not make sense to rush and try for a knockout, play defensive, build up your special and use if necessary to repel any prospective attack (hopefully other teammates are on your wavelength!) then control the tower to confirm the win. The losing team will most likely be taking risks to push forth, which can be an advantage.

    Your weapon set up and style of play:
    Some weapons and set ups are better suited to defending themselves on the tower and pushing than others. Tri Slosher with Ink Armor is a good example of being able to hold their own against direct attacks and eke out a few precious points.
     
  3. ItzJusGameZ

    ItzJusGameZ Inkling

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    Yep you should have gotten on..,I honestly think you should always get on the tower. You can't win if you don't and that's the bottom line. I get frustrated when my teammates Just watch it go by.

    Like idc if you get splat, get your butt on the tower. Lol.. It makes the tower move further away from your side which gives you the better advantage. Even snipers. I understand you hang back but we need them to get on the tower also. I find that we often lose when players just wait for something to happen.

    I'm always going to attempt to push forward because I want to win. Can't control the tower of you're not on it. I rank out so much because I cannot be my team. Lol.

    And as for weapons, i love that weak splash o matic. I always play Tower Control with a weapon that has a Suction bomb so that if I jump to the tower I can drop my bomb to get whomever off. I get splat a lot But when I push my team we always win...

    I'm only s rank trying to get to s+
     
    thundasi likes this.
  4. KrackHead

    KrackHead Inkling

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    Some thoughts.

    As already mentioned, if you have a 4v2 or better situation you should probably be pushing the objective.

    Unless you get past a choke point and have a winning lead, you shouldn't stop pushing the objective when you have an opportunity to do so. I don't know how many times I have seen my team push a little ways, then play defensively for the rest of the game, only to be wiped out at the end of the game and lose the lead and ultimately the game. It will go on like this even in 4v2 or better situations like you described.

    Finally, just because you should get on the tower, it doesn't mean it always makes since to stay on. I will often times get on the tower, push it a ways and thenot hop off to avoid a bomb or splat a few squids to get the advantage again before getting right back on.

    S+ rank in all modes
     
    Ember-Wisp likes this.
  5. KrackHead

    KrackHead Inkling

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    Ironically, the current mode is TC. In the last 10 games, most of them ended in a knock out. In each game, I played exactly how I suggest above. There was even a few games where I mostly just rode tower whole time while the team did the splating. I of course took out a few whIle I was in the tower, but my main focus during those games was to stay alive on the tower.

    Also goes to show that you need to adjust to your team.
     
    #5 KrackHead, Nov 28, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  6. J'Wiz

    J'Wiz Inkling Cadet

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    I generally don't ride the tower that much. I will if I think I need to, but with the Ranged Blaster and my lackluster aim with it, I am a sitting duck on the thing. I usually swim near the tower and try to splat anyone who comes close. If it is a stage I can effectively camp with the Ranged Blaster, like Humpback or Inkblot, I will go in enemy territory after we've gained fair control, and be a nuisance over there.

    Of course this is coming from someone stuck in S, so make of that what you will.
     
    Ember-Wisp likes this.
  7. Reila

    Reila Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    It is not that simple. Riding the tower when two or all of your teammates are nowhere to be seen and the whole opponent team is alive is just asking to be splatted. Instead of riding it, you could be making sure the opponent team doesn't have as much as an easy time pushing back, by harassing them with bombs (if you have) or shooting with a medium/long range weapon, again, if you play with such weapons.

    I do hop on the tower if the circumstances ask, but most of the time I prefer to keep the surroundings as safe as possible and I do a very good job at it.
     
  8. MindWanderer

    MindWanderer Inkling Commander

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    I get on only when it's safe to do so, then push it until it's clear that it's suicide. However, I usually play rapid blasters, which can't really defend themselves and are better at picking off attackers. I'm much more likely to get on when using a tri-slosher, for instance.
     
  9. Mar$el

    Mar$el Inkling Commander

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    This is one of those deciding factors that define your playstyle. You have your people that start something, and the people who follow, aggressive and non-aggressive, offensive and defensive. There are multiple ways to play, and if I have someone on my team who knows when and how to push the tower, I will follow and shark and defend the tower, but I'm just not good at pushing objective. If you have 4 people on a team as you described it's chaos. If you have 4 people on a team who play like I do and wait for someone else, it's chaos. I know how to defend the objective (and how to suicide for zone :) ) but sometimes all other 3 players are in the same boat (or just dead or inattentive in which case I question their ability to get to S+). It takes someone like you or someone to give up their play style which is why I appreciate you saying you gotta adjust to the team. I don't always realize how my team plays so I don't adjust as much but I'll try to now. I think there's an extent to which pushing the objective should be your main focus, and that separates skilled players from unskilled. If everyone just books it to be on the tower and nothing else, why, that's your average C- match right there. It's like watching little kids swarm to the ball in t-ball or basketball or soccer (football for you non-americans). I'd say my role in tower is mostly defending against pushes and killing people, so I wait for others to push. I don't think there's anything wrong with that but I just failed to adjust in the moment, which is what's key in solo-queue.
     
    Mr. 9 likes this.
  10. Tofuvia

    Tofuvia Inkling

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    When should you hop onto the tower?

    I always hop onto the tower when it's 4v2, or when the tower is just so close to taking the lead, and I'm the only one able to take it there. It also depends on what weapon you have. Personally, I believe the tower should have a shooter on it as a priority. It is the most versatile weapon in terms of range.

    When shouldn't you hop onto the tower?

    Never get on the tower if there are already two people there, focus on clearing the way so they can stay on it safely. Load your special, ink turf and the popular focus on kills. If you ink enough turf, it's safe to say the win is yours since ambush will be near impossible. At the same time don't be shy about jumping off the tower to retreat, especially if your special is ready. A few sacrificed seconds will pay off in the long run for the victory. Of course, that doesn't always work that way.

    When should you really try to push (as opposed to just making the tower further from mid so the other team has to push further for the lead)? / When should you just hop on to send it back?

    Always. Always push, the second you let up you lose, (from my experience at least, curse you online) your priority should always try to be getting a knock out because undisputable victory is the best kind. Now, there's always going to be the team that can put just as much pressure as you, and of course, trying to get a knock out would be a risky bet because that one member whose respawning can really change the tide of the match. If you have a safe lead and know you can't maintain it by playing offensive, playing defensive is also the best you can do, stay near the tower, keep them away from it and ink and much as you can so they can't bamboozel you. Sending the tower back would also be a safe defensive play, but I personally think that should be more of a 4v2 situation where you know you can't force the tower forward without compromising your lead.

    When do you sacrifice yourself for the objective?
    Personally, I think you should always do that, communication is a key too. If I could thank every team member that said 'Ouch...' after getting splatted I would because it told me, someone, probably survived and depending on how much turf my team owns tells me how on my toes I should be. Not to mention the ink hits you, and not the person behind you so being a shield to get that one point during overtime is the best.


    Now, randomly it also depends on how well you use your weapon and what your normal play style. I prefer a shooter on the tower but during Tower Control I main a slosher, and not to brag but do a damn good job with it. As long as my team is actively moving and keeping me up with where everyone is I usually can stay on the tower for a long time, Tenta Missles help me force the opposite team off the tower and suction bomb keeps them from trying to sneak on it. Because even if they didn't get splatted by it I still know they're nearby with the sound they make when hit by the impact.


    TL;DR practice makes perfect, TC was my worst mode in S1, managed to be A- in S2.
     
    Mr. 9 likes this.
  11. Zak98

    Zak98 Pro Squid

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    You should try running ink resistance up on tower control, also when your in a dangerous situation on the tower try squid bagging because it makes it more difficult for anyone to hit you. Also, the more people on the tower means the tower will ride faster which helps a lot.
     
  12. vanille987

    vanille987 Inkling Cadet

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    General speaking, I mostly look how many of my ally's are and how many enemy's are there.
    If we got the numerical advantage, i get on the tower.

    But really i rarely stay on the tower with enemy's or even a risk of enemy's nearby, this may be due my supportive playstyle but i rather keep enemy's off the tower and possibly splat them.
    Even using the tower as bait to achieve that. (usually works pretty well)
    Staying on the tower with enemy's nearby is just too risky for my unless we are clearly dominating and have specials ready.
    I mean, an sloshing machine or blaster or sudden special *cough*splashdown*cough* can solo handedly ruin your day. (Also reason why i prefer to play supportive, so i can prevent players 'ruining' a match like this)

    Now this isn't really good advice as playstyle is personal, but really, there are so many variables its pretty much a split second decsion.
    Playstyle does depend how much you stand on the tower but in a skirmish and your teammates aren't doing a good job at repeling enemy's,, you really don't want to stay on it as your basicly a sitting duck, especially to long range weapons.
    The ony exception is when your close to a knockout or lead change, a 'suicide' mission is actually smart.



    Though some more tips:
    If 2 members are already on the tower, don't join unless there's no enemy threat.

    Watch the enemy specials, a push is really risky if the enemy team has their specials ready, consider being more defensive.

    On the other hand, if your team has alot of specials ready, do a push.
    Good use of them can really help and you can afford yourself to stay more on the tower and in the worst case, even the odds against the enemy team that had their specials ready.

    Especially on maps like moray towers who have a accessible spawn..
    One or team teammates schould get away from the the tower and advance in the enemy territory or atleast repel vantage points so you want be overwhelmed but the enemy's terrain advantage.


    Hope this helped even if slightly. :)
     
  13. Mar$el

    Mar$el Inkling Commander

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    This is all things I do. I'm on the same boat. I'm a very supportive player and I focus on killing to lower threats to my teammates, myself and the objective. Because of this when I die not only do we lose map control but I lose my positioning and the game goes downhill. I just failed to compensate in that situation. There's times when I do compensate for my team despite my play style and there's times I fail. I suicide for the objective to get lead usually I do all of this but I realized I only look at enemy specials. I look at who's alive and playing what on both teams but I don't notice who has specials on my team only on the enemy team (which is probably more important but still)
     
  14. Dark Sage Walker

    Dark Sage Walker Inkling Commander

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    Your best bet is to read the situation. Know when making a push would be a bad idea and when it's time to go gung-ho! Examples of bad times to get on the tower and push:

    ~Enemy team has a greater numbers than your team and no one is on the tower.
    ~Enemy team has specials ready. Especially dangerous if there is more than one special ready.
    ~Enemy team has more map control.

    Now some examples of good times to push the tower:

    ~Your team has a number advantage.
    ~Your team has specials ready that can help clear the way for your advance.
    ~Your team has more map control.

    I know these things seem vague, but it all comes back to one, centralizing point. Situational awareness. You need to be aware of what is going on around you at all times in the chaotic mess of flying ink that is Splatoon battling. The best thing I can say about this is to remember to check your map! Your map can and will show you who is where on your team as well as changes to the ink on the ground in real time. This can let you get an idea of what is being planned by your enemies or simply just allow you to check who is downed on your team. Of course, you don't want your map up at all times. Only when you aren't engaged in a firefight or otherwise have some breathing room. Your map can either be your best friend or your worst enemy. Try not to let it be the latter.

    Lastly, the most practical of advice, just keep practicing. No one is going to be perfect at something without putting some work into it. You have to keep playing to learn to make good judgments. Learning to make good judgments comes as a result of making bad judgments. Just keep at it!
     
  15. vanille987

    vanille987 Inkling Cadet

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    If things always go downhill if you die and your team fails to keep control.
    That has more to do with the skill level of them rather on you.

    Though what you can work on is regaining your position.
    Supportive playstyle’s are not going rambo and take over the objective yourself but synergize with your teammates.
    Wait for your team before pushing and regaining the control.
    In the meantime, you can use subs or ‘annoy’ them so they’re open for a ambush while charging your special.

    Only if the enemy is going to do a gamechanger in their favor, you schould consider attempting to stop them alone by a surprise attack/special use.
    And out of curiousity, what weapon do you usually use?
     
  16. Mar$el

    Mar$el Inkling Commander

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    Range blaster, firefin and vanilla chargers mostly (scoped and unscoped). These are my serious weapons that I use most of the time. Usually dependent on map and mode
     
  17. Koopon

    Koopon Roller/Blaster Main

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    When you're scoring points, get on the tower. When you're on defense, shark. The reason for this is you can stall the tower when it's in enemy territory and organize a push. But when the tower crosses over onto your side of the map you want to splat the other team and outnumber them. The tower goes back to mid by itself so you don't need to waste a body on it. And if you have nothing to do, you want to be on the tower no matter where it is.
     
  18. MindWanderer

    MindWanderer Inkling Commander

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    That being said, the tower does take several seconds to start returning to the center when no one's on it. If the tower's on your side, unoccupied, and it's safe to do so, it's a good idea to get on it for just a moment so it starts moving.
     
  19. vanille987

    vanille987 Inkling Cadet

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    Okay a charger is hard support so you really need your team for doing well.
    But it’s good at long range support so you can take pot shots until you re-group.

    Range blaster is much more solo oriented though, if you attack at the right moment you can deal some serious damage to an enemy occupied tower before you get splatted.
     
  20. Green Waffles

    Green Waffles Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    Actually, they changed this in splatoon 2.
    The tower no longer moves faster the more squids are on it.
    Now, having more squids on tower clears checkpoints faster.

    I'd link the video showing this, but I can't remember where it is xP

    EDIT: Well at the very least here's the inkipedia page saying the same thing.
    Info on here is only added with video proof and/or hard numbers dug up from the game files. ( no video on the page, but the website is dang reputable)
    https://splatoonwiki.org/wiki/Tower_Control#Splatoon_2
     
    #20 Green Waffles, Dec 3, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017

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