I updated my stupid ****ing tier list.

[Hitzel]

Click the link to the Google Doc below for the tier list and notes on what it's supposed to be.

Link:
Have fun.

 

[Kowai Yume]

Something tells me you've been bombarded with tier list messages and cracked like I did with the issue of gear-editing.

 

[Hitzel]

Something tells me you've been bombarded with tier list messages and cracked like I did with the issue of gear-editing.

Nah, I just got bored this morning and wrote it down lol.

I will probably split up High Tier into a few different viability levels because it's kinda big and varied right now.

 

[Kowai Yume]

I'm wondering if someone should make an abilities tier list along side weapon tier list. I'm sure some are used more often than others. I would make it but I feel I'm not qualified enough as I only played one season of LUTI.

 

[Mr. 9]

Click the link to the Google Doc below for the tier list and notes on what it's supposed to be.

Link:
Have fun.

WHAAAAAAAT!!!??? Whadaya mean the _____ <- [insert rando weapon no.1] is better than the _____ <-[insert rando weapon no.2].

You !)@(#*$*%*!!&, don’t you know that…[rabble, rabble, rabble]…[general discontent]?

You’re a bad person and you should feel bad.

 

[ultra777]

I'm wondering if someone should make an abilities tier list along side weapon tier list. I'm sure some are used more often than others. I would make it but I feel I'm not qualified enough as I only played one season of LUTI.

There shouldn't be a tier list for abilities because you use different abilities for different weapons.An example is Aerospray sucks with damage up but most chargers need it.

 

[Ansible]

Don't care about tier lists but they can be useful in knowing what sort of nonsense I'm going to have to cope with while everyone tries to demolish me with the "ged gud shrub" hammer.

And like @ultra777, I'm thinking it'd be really difficult to have an ability teir list due to the variety of weapons, their kits, their stats, and generally intended playstyle.

 

[Box]

Last night I was talking about the Splash-o-matic vs the Berry Pro. That discussion didn't provide many good arguments for the Berry as most people thought the Splash was better. You've rated the Berry as a top tier while the Splash didn't even make the cut. Care to provide more details?

 

[Green Waffles]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

You left out uber-god tier, which is above god tier and includes custom splattershot jr., dynamos, and H3 nozzlenoses ">_"> you'veruinedsplatoonwithyoursillybumblehumblejumblefrumble

dumble gumble plumble fumble =P

edit: POST 100!!!

I am now a "professional squid"
Squidboards confirmed

 

[Hitzel]

Last night I was talking about the Splash-o-matic vs the Berry Pro. That discussion didn't provide many good arguments for the Berry as most people thought the Splash was better. You've rated the Berry as a top tier while the Splash didn't even make the cut. Care to provide more details?

Funnily enough I was having a talk about vanilla Splash last night as well.

IMO the first thing to mention about Splash is that Neo Splash is pretty much superior. Burst Bombs give it a longer effective range than the other SMG's it shares a class with, and light depletion Inkzooka combined with great coverage helps it compete with tentatek specifically (although that isn't a unique trait).

Vanilla Splash on the other hand starts having issues with range once it loses Burst Bombs, and as a CQC weapon trying to get in Bomb Rush can force you to shift gears in order to use it effectively. It is, however, definitely worth using on double Bomb Rush comps. In fact I feel that double Bomb Rush is the vanilla Splash's true niche because the end result is a ton of map control.

It's really not in the same weapon class as Berry, but Berry is good because it is a consistent and powerful midrange rifle that has a good sub and a good supportive special for a weapon of its range. It is simply a safe and straightforward weapon with killing power and supportive qualities at long ranges, while at the same time being able to handle itself up close. It's overall solid and doesn't have much trouble at all fitting on teams or functioning on specific maps, and that's why it's top tier.

 

[Elecmaw]

I know I'll get my *** kicked for this but this isn't really much better than the random monthly tier list.

The reason i like reading tier lists isn't because somebody picked a list of weapons which are generally considered best to worst, but reading the arguments about why they are there. I don't need a wall of text on every single weapon to get the general point, but something would be nice even if it's just an update how weapon useage shifted since the last few patches. Like, why is the E-Liter considered superior over the Splatterscopes? Why is the Vanilla Pro considered better than Forge now? Opinions on Sheldon's picks v 2?

Unless of course this is intended to be a big screw you to people who treat tiers as the gospel, then my bad lol

(edited, post was a bit too caustic in tone)

 

[Box]

Funnily enough I was having a talk about vanilla Splash last night as well.

IMO the first thing to mention about Splash is that Neo Splash is pretty much superior. Burst Bombs give it a longer effective range than the other SMG's it shares a class with, and light depletion Inkzooka combined with great coverage helps it compete with tentatek specifically (although that isn't a unique trait).

Vanilla Splash on the other hand starts having issues with range once it loses Burst Bombs, and as a CQC weapon trying to get in Bomb Rush can force you to shift gears in order to use it effectively. It is, however, definitely worth using on double Bomb Rush comps. In fact I feel that double Bomb Rush is the vanilla Splash's true niche because the end result is a ton of map control.

It's really not in the same weapon class as Berry, but Berry is good because it is a consistent and powerful midrange rifle that has a good sub and a good supportive special for a weapon of its range. It is simply a safe and straightforward weapon with killing power and supportive qualities at long ranges, while at the same time being able to handle itself up close. It's overall solid and doesn't have much trouble at all fitting on teams or functioning on specific maps, and that's why it's top tier.

If you don't mind, I'd like to play devil's advocate and relate some of the arguments that were being made in favor of the Splash.

One of the big drawbacks to using the Splattershot Pro is it's distinction as a very poor weapon for claiming territory. It particularly suffers when you want to quickly claim as much turf as possible after getting a few picks and when you need to quickly cover your immediate vicinity to give yourself room to maneuver. It's actually decidedly mediocre as a close range weapon. It needs to place 3 shots with poor run speed and mediocre time to kill.

The Splash-o-matic is obviously much stronger these situations. It can quickly claim unguarded territory and it has much more maneuverability at close range. The suction bombs, which can be augmented with the bomb range up ability, give it presence at range and the ability to claim turf and charge special safely. Light depletion is a big deal as well, especially on a special requiring only 180 points from a weapon that is very quick to charge special.

Range isn't always about what your weapon can kill. Suction bombs are dangerous even if they don't immediately damage you. Using its bombs, the Splash-o-matic can provide support at range while being dangerous up close. With ink recovery, it can throw bomb after bomb. This is part of what makes the Tentatek so strong even though it has short range. Unlike the Tentatek though, it's a light depletion weapon with a faster charging special.

 

[Mr. 9]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

You left out uber-god tier, which is above god tier and includes custom splattershot jr., dynamos, and H3 nozzlenoses ">_"> you'veruinedsplatoonwithyoursillybumblehumblejumblefrumble

dumble gumble plumble fumble =P

edit: POST 100!!!

I am now a "professional squid"
Squidboards confirmed

I don't' know (or care) where you come up with these completely ridiculous videos, but please keep them coming.

 

[binx]

As everyone talks about the splash... Just wanted to add, about the rush specials, that the very last bombs you throw will explode *after* your special ended, and that will charge the next rush. So I conclude the rush are the fastest specials to charge (maybe with the wail especially in rainmaker), especially the suction one (as the bombs will explode later and cover more).

About the regular splash, I always feel the weapon is a bit redundant. I mean, you can claim a lot of turf with your weapon, then you can... claim a lot of turf with your special. Of course, with a small range, you can't really claim the opponent's turf that well while they're alive as other weapons could (gatlings, sprinklers...). But I don't really like it for this reason, though it definitely is helpful. And as it was said, the neo version is quite appealing. Plus the inkzooka is strong with burst bombs (you keep some manoeuvrability).

That being said I'm kinda curious and have two questions:

- Why are E-Liters above everything else? There are maps where you don't really want them, and they still kinda sucks at close range, are not flexible and so on. I'm not saying they're bad obviously, but "god" seems kinda too good... Is it because you can't really play without thinking about where they are?

- Isn't it kinda incoherent not to separate scope and no-scope versions (yes I read the bottom text)? I ask because if we're looking at competitive play (or even ranked anyway), the scope versions are way more used. And there is this range difference, too. Like, how a scope E-Liter can kill a non-scope E-Liter if they both went in the left of Arowana for instance. (Of course, the no-scope can just stay back a little, but he has to deal with his opponent, while the opposite isn't true. And it's kinda unfair, especially when the zoom has no drawback if you're opponent if very far, as it will be in a sniper duel.)

The list is interesting. My personal opinion would be to remove bamboo and add soda slosher, custom (bubble) blaster and tri-slosher in high I think.

PS: encoutered you in 4-squad last week. Your full range up vanilla blaster was doubtful I believe, but maybe you were just in fun mode. Did you try that with rapid pro deco? Would be more coherent I think, because range.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Interesting that you list the Bamboozlers as a result of their high skill ceiling but not the Cherry H-3. The sub/special and inking potential seems to do a lot for holding ground and supporting, and if anyone could manage its spacing well, it can probably do useful stuff unique to itself.

I understand that getting the three hits it needs is generally unreliable, but something like Run Speed Up could potentially mitigate its problem of relatively easy flanking.

 

[Heart of Ice]

I know I'll get my *** kicked for this but this isn't really much better than the random monthly tier list.

The reason i like reading tier lists isn't because somebody picked a list of weapons which are generally considered best to worst, but reading the arguments about why they are there. I don't need a wall of text on every single weapon to get the general point, but something would be nice even if it's just an update how weapon useage shifted since the last few patches. Like, why is the E-Liter considered superior over the Splatterscopes? Why is the Vanilla Pro considered better than Forge now? Opinions on Sheldon's picks v 2?

Unless of course this is intended to be a big screw you to people who treat tiers as the gospel, then my bad lol

(edited, post was a bit too caustic in tone)

Yeah I consider the Vanilla Pro to easily be the worst of the bunch. Having an ink hungry sub on a weapon that already guzzles ink like it's diesel fuel really isn't a good fit for it. The special doesn't really help either, because Inkstrike is pretty mediocre. The Forge on the other hand has an excellent special and an energy efficient sub that helps mitigate it's weakness to getting flanked. I don't think the Berry is as good as the Forge, because Suction Bomb once again eats up a lot of ink on a weapon that can't afford it. However the Berry's special, Suction Bomb Rush really does help it, since the Pro isn't very good at covering turf. I have used both the Splatterscope and the E-liter and I can say that the Splatterscope is probably better, because it's more mobile and versatile than the E-liter. Again, I don't take tier lists too seriously, but I just wanted to weigh in on this topic.

 

[NeoSeth]

Gosh I love this thread. Polite tier discussion is the bomb!

That said, I'm going to respond to the question about why E-liters are better than Splatterscopes. First off, the E-Liters offer much more range than the Splatterscopes, which is the whole point of chargers in the first place. This allows E-Liters to exert pressure over and control a great area of the map than the Splatterscope - again, the reason you use a charger. Chargers are also great at killing other chargers, and in a sniper vs. Sniper battle the E-liter can wreck a Splatterscope before even entering the Splatterscope's range. The extra range also gives the E-liter more perches from which it can effectively snipe, giving it more options.

Then we can look at the kits. The standard E-liter has burst bombs and echo, a PHENOMENAL support kit. Burst Bombs are the best close range defense sub you could ask for and benefit from the Damage Up chargers are running anyway. Burst Bombs are so good on the E-liter that you can actually run into the fray with them and emerge victorious. Then there's Echolocator, an AMAZING sniper special. Not only can it flush out enemy shooters and catch flankers, but it also reveals the enemy sniper to you so they can be disposed of. The Custom E-liter is the best Beakon weapon in the game, providing terrific team support. Snipers are living beakons themselves, so again we see that the E-Liter is equipped to excel in the areas where you want a sniper to excel. Kraken is icing on the cake, giving you a powerful out in close combat situations and allowing you to make key plays to push and stop the Tower and Rainmaker. The Custom E-Liter is one of the best tower riding weapons in the game, as it can shield itself with Beakons, snipe enemies before they have a chance to approach tower and Kraken for those key extra points or securing the win.

All these points are backed up by the fact that top teams use E-liters an overwhelming majority of the time. Contrary to popular belief, top players are not sticks in the mud who hate change and stick to "the meta." Top players experiment. It's how they stay on top. And the E-Liter has proven overwhelmingly to be a superior option to the Splatterscopes, to the point where almost every team runs an E-liter on almost every map/mode. They're the most important weapons in the meta and often the most important in a match. Everything chages when an E-liter is down.

This isn't to say that Splatterscopes are bad. They're pretty good. But without VERY SPECIFIC reasoning and team composition, there is almost no way to justify using a Splatterscope over an E-liter in competitive play.

I personally think E-liters are actually TOO over-centralizing and could use yet another nerf, but that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[Heart of Ice]

Gosh I love this thread. Polite tier discussion is the bomb!

That said, I'm going to respond to the question about why E-liters are better than Splatterscopes. First off, the E-Liters offer much more range than the Splatterscopes, which is the whole point of chargers in the first place. This allows E-Liters to exert pressure over and control a great area of the map than the Splatterscope - again, the reason you use a charger. Chargers are also great at killing other chargers, and in a sniper vs. Sniper battle the E-liter can wreck a Splatterscope before even entering the Splatterscope's range. The extra range also gives the E-liter more perches from which it can effectively snipe, giving it more options.

Then we can look at the kits. The standard E-liter has burst bombs and echo, a PHENOMENAL support kit. Burst Bombs are the best close range defense sub you could ask for and benefit from the Damage Up chargers are running anyway. Burst Bombs are so good on the E-liter that you can actually run into the fray with them and emerge victorious. Then there's Echolocator, an AMAZING sniper special. Not only can it flush out enemy shooters and catch flankers, but it also reveals the enemy sniper to you so they can be disposed of. The Custom E-liter is the best Beakon weapon in the game, providing terrific team support. Snipers are living beakons themselves, so again we see that the E-Liter is equipped to excel in the areas where you want a sniper to excel. Kraken is icing on the cake, giving you a powerful out in close combat situations and allowing you to make key plays to push and stop the Tower and Rainmaker. The Custom E-Liter is one of the best tower riding weapons in the game, as it can shield itself with Beakons, snipe enemies before they have a chance to approach tower and Kraken for those key extra points or securing the win.

All these points are backed up by the fact that top teams use E-liters an overwhelming majority of the time. Contrary to popular belief, top players are not sticks in the mud who hate change and stick to "the meta." Top players experiment. It's how they stay on top. And the E-Liter has proven overwhelmingly to be a superior option to the Splatterscopes, to the point where almost every team runs an E-liter on almost every map/mode. They're the most important weapons in the meta and often the most important in a match. Everything chages when an E-liter is down.

This isn't to say that Splatterscopes are bad. They're pretty good. But without VERY SPECIFIC reasoning and team composition, there is almost no way to justify using a Splatterscope over an E-liter in competitive play.

I personally think E-liters are actually TOO over-centralizing and could use yet another nerf, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Eh, I'm not saying that E-liters are bad (They're still quite good!), but I don't believe they have the same flexibility as Splatterscopes do. I can change between playing offensively and defensively with a spatterscope quite fluidly and go 7-0. I tried playing an E-liter offensively and ended up going 1-6, because there's simply too much of a startup time even with Damage-Ups.

Burst Bombs have been pretty substantially nerfed and are no longer a reliable way to defend oneself when somebody gets too close. You now have to score two direct hits with the burst bombs to secure the kill and without any abilities you can only use two burst bombs on a full tank. It also now has a speed drop in addition to the already existing nerfs. Meaning that if your opponent manages to close the gap and you miss with your Burst Bombs then it's unlikely you will even be able to escape outside of super jumping.

As for the Custom E-liter while I think they're a viable alternative to the vanilla E-liter Squid Beakons aren't a real great sub to have for such an ink-hungry weapon. (I think they consume like 90%?). The E-liter isn't really mobile enough to even reliably place the Beakons in useful places without giving up a lot of time that could be spent pressuring the enemy team.

And while this is only from personal experience I win ~80% of my charger duels with E-liters and I've only been using chargers for about two weeks. So I think it's safe to say that you can play around the E-liter's Range provided you have a general idea where there blind spots are.

 

[NeoSeth]

Your own performance is just anecdotal evidence and doesn't really amount to much when making a competitive tier list though. You might personally be better with the Splatterscope but that doesn't change the E-liter's viability. There is a reason the E-liter is as ubiquitous as it is on competitive teams, and it's not because they just haven't realized the power of the Splatterscopes. When making an argument for a tier list, saying "I go X-O" isn't really a valid argument. Solo queue isn't a great representation of competitive play anyway.

Burst Bombs are also still amazing CQC tools. You have to actually aim now, but good E-liters were already doing that anyway. As for beakons, the high ink demand isn't that much of a hindrance. You can easily drop a beakon and have your ink back by the time you need it.

 

[Heart of Ice]

Your own performance is just anecdotal evidence and doesn't really amount to much when making a competitive tier list though. You might personally be better with the Splatterscope but that doesn't change the E-liter's viability. There is a reason the E-liter is as ubiquitous as it is on competitive teams, and it's not because they just haven't realized the power of the Splatterscopes. When making an argument for a tier list, saying "I go X-O" isn't really a valid argument. Solo queue isn't a great representation of competitive play anyway.

Burst Bombs are also still amazing CQC tools. You have to actually aim now, but good E-liters were already doing that anyway. As for beakons, the high ink demand isn't that much of a hindrance. You can easily drop a beakon and have your ink back by the time you need it.

Ok fair point I suppose! Using anecdotal evidence was stupid of me.

The reason I prefer the Splatterscope (specifically the Kelp one) is because I can use both the sprinkler and Killer Wail to get the opposing sniper to play into my hand.

The E-liter simply doesn't have the tools necessary to reliably win a fight with a Kelp Splatterscope. The range advantage that the E-liter has is negligible since the scopeless E-liter has a range that's only about one line longer than the Splatterscope, so the range deficit isn't quite as large as you're implying. Meaning that if I AM out of range I won't have to move too far forward before I can hit the E-liter back. And neither variant of E-liter has anything capable of forcing an opponent out of cover like the Kelp Splatterscope does, which makes charger duels significantly more difficult.

The Killer Wail not only outranges the E-liter, but if properly aimed forces them to evacuate their position. And if you combine that with the sprinkler to limit their movement options, it's a very easy splat!

It's also worth noting that the sprinkler can also serve as a light shield to block incoming shots. If a Splatterscope misses it's not the end of the world. But if a shot from an E-liter fails to connect that can be very bad, because the E-liter has a longer charge time which means a larger opening for the enemy team (including the Splatterscope) to advance.

Another cool thing about the sprinkler is that it can also be used as an effective distraction. I like to throw it at an opposing wall and then splat inklings when they turn their back on me to destroy it. The E-liter doesn't have any silly distractions to cheese kills off of like the Kelp Splatterscope does.

I still think that burst bombs still definitely help the E-liter especially if you activate Echolocator after chucking your first two bombs to refill your tank, so you can chuck two more. While the Vanilla E-liter has a semi-reliable panic button over the Kelp Splatterscope it still lacks the tools to force its enemies into vulnerable positions.

Please understand that I still believe that the E-liter is still a very solid weapon, but it's not so amazing that it deserves its own tier above everything else.

I also think it's too early to say for sure that the E-liter is better than the Kelp Splatterscope at the moment and I believe that once people see all the neat set-ups you can do with the sprinkler that the Kelp Splatterscope will see a rise in popularity.