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I updated my stupid ****ing tier list.

binx

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I don't know many top teams and so on, but I've been said top japanese teams don't run E-Liters as often as western top teams these days, and that gatlings are kinda subbing them on a number of maps. I saw double japanese E-Liter comp' once too (SZ Mahi). So I guess we're talking about western meta... But well I don't know enough about the top level (japanese or not) to be sure.
 

Archæa

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Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the Hydra? I personally do not use it, however when discussing it with some friends, we came to the conclusion that on certain maps, it could most likely surpass the sheer area covering ability of the Dynamo (its main draw). If this is true (you're the expert here, we could be completely wrong) why isn't the Hydra considered on par with the Dynamo? It also has the ability to 3-shot kill, and has a range of over 120% the Dynamo.

This plus the possession of a Bubble and the Dynamo's lack of any invincibility specials seems like it would make up any drawbacks to the Hydra, even though the Hydra can become special reliant at close ranges. The benefit of god-tier ink coverage combined with light depletion is just another added plus.

Just a little curious, especially since I'm a stranger to the Hydra, Thanks!
 

Heart of Ice

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Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the Hydra? I personally do not use it, however when discussing it with some friends, we came to the conclusion that on certain maps, it could most likely surpass the sheer area covering ability of the Dynamo (its main draw). If this is true (you're the expert here, we could be completely wrong) why isn't the Hydra considered on par with the Dynamo? It also has the ability to 3-shot kill, and has a range of over 120% the Dynamo.

This plus the possession of a Bubble and the Dynamo's lack of any invincibility specials seems like it would make up any drawbacks to the Hydra, even though the Hydra can become special reliant at close ranges. The benefit of god-tier ink coverage combined with light depletion is just another added plus.

Just a little curious, especially since I'm a stranger to the Hydra, Thanks!
While not as common as E-liters, I honestly have much more trouble with these guys. That's probably because unlike the E-liter there's not a giant laser beam pointing to their location, so tracking a Hydra is much more difficult.

Hydra's also have the same range as my splatterscope so there's nowhere I can go to comfortably outrange it.

Usually by the time I notice a good Hydra player's presence it's already too late.
 

sammich

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While not as common as E-liters, I honestly have much more trouble with these guys. That's probably because unlike the E-liter there's not a giant laser beam pointing to their location, so tracking a Hydra is much more difficult.

Hydra's also have the same range as my splatterscope so there's nowhere I can go to comfortably outrange it.

Usually by the time I notice a good Hydra player's presence it's already too late.
hydras are the devil. hard to get within in their range without getting taken out, then when i've finally done it and caught them at the exact wrong time, they pull out bubbler.

they're especially difficult to take out because of their high run speed while shooting,
but as long as they're alive they dominate the area they've chosen to cover and can re-ink an area in a heartbeat.

they're pretty much the worst thing i can be up against when i'm squiffing/bamboozling.
 

binx

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From my point of view, custom hydra is just a little too strong. The problem when you go against it is that almost every weapon needs to approach it because, you know, range. But, if you take too long to approach it, it has a bubble ready and all of a sudden you’re pretty much powerless. That, and it kills fairly fast even with a partial charge (needs some skills of course). I noticed this while I was going against a hydra who had absolutely no bonus special-related… And even if you do kill a hydra before he activates his bubble, or before he has it, the light depletion is there anyway. I think the weapon would be more balanced with a medium depletion.
 

sammich

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From my point of view, custom hydra is just a little too strong. The problem when you go against it is that almost every weapon needs to approach it because, you know, range. But, if you take too long to approach it, it has a bubble ready and all of a sudden you’re pretty much powerless. That, and it kills fairly fast even with a partial charge (needs some skills of course). I noticed this while I was going against a hydra who had absolutely no bonus special-related… And even if you do kill a hydra before he activates his bubble, or before he has it, the light depletion is there anyway. I think the weapon would be more balanced with a medium depletion.
oh, it's seriously light depletion? no wonder they always seem to come back from a splat just fine.
 

Green Waffles

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Yeah, I played hydra splatlings since their release. Very power, much splats.

I've said it many times already but...
WHY did they buff its damage at full charge again? It already had the highest DPS in the game, shared only by the other splatlings yet outclassing them with sheer firing duration.
I guess because not enough people were interested in the weapon before, but I don't think that alone is a good reason.

Also that special depletion nerf would make me a little sad, but I somewhat agree.
 

ThatOneGuy

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I'm sorry everyone, but how is the custom hydra "overpowered"? I'm experienced at using the weapon, as well as some snipers, and I've reached S+ with those.
However I've seen a hydra a couple times, but they aren't much of a trouble to me. They're extremely slow, are rather horrid at close combat without bubble, and they're one of the easiest things to snipe as a charger. Sure it's a solid choice of a weapon, but it is no means overpowered.
"But they're not slow, they run so much run speed up!" That just means their gear slots are being used up by that ability, most hydras I meet usually have two main equivalents of run speed, which doesn't allow them to run other abilities like swim speed or ink recovery up.

While not as common as E-liters, I honestly have much more trouble with these guys. That's probably because unlike the E-liter there's not a giant laser beam pointing to their location, so tracking a Hydra is much more difficult.
If you see an E-liter's laser constantly like that, they're not using the weapon nearly effectively. In fact that's a terrible way to use the E-liter.

Hydra's also have the same range as my splatterscope so there's nowhere I can go to comfortably outrange it.
Actually the splatterscope barely outranges the hydra, but I can see where you're going.

why isn't the Hydra considered on par with the Dynamo? It also has the ability to 3-shot kill, and has a range of over 120% the Dynamo.
Why the hydra isn't considered to be on par with the dynamo is because the dynamo has a HUGE one-flick kill that goes a great distance, also the dynamo is a very good weapon to trade with, and it has a better kit than the vanilla hydra. Meanwhile the hydra plays differently, it plays as a defensive turf manager who can maintain a part of a map, however a hydra doesn't just go into mid, it stays back and earns its keep.

Honestly the custom hydra is a great weapon, but to deem it as overpowered with it's awful mobility, monstrous ink consumption, and their pitiful close combat abilities without bubble, just doesn't make me see it as overpowered, at least in my eyes anyway. Sorry about the long post, and somewhat ramble, but I had to disagree.
 

Heart of Ice

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If you see an E-liter's laser constantly like that, they're not using the weapon nearly effectively. In fact that's a terrible way to use the E-liter.
Actually the splatterscope barely outranges the hydra, but I can see where you're going.
Well I don't constantly see their laser, but I only need to see it once to get a general feel of where the sniper is. Even techs like flicking, dragging, and peeking can only go so far when it comes to hiding your laser. They might let you take one player by surprise, but in doing so your laser is revealed to any other players in the vicinity. Heck they don't even have to land the shot to alert somebody to their position. E-liters have a pretty lengthy charge time, so even if you miss once you can still be punished pretty hard for it.

I'm also glad to hear some input from a more experienced charger player than I. Any additional thoughts on either weapon?
 

WeirdChillFever

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I'm sorry everyone, but how is the custom hydra "overpowered"? I'm experienced at using the weapon, as well as some snipers, and I've reached S+ with those.
However I've seen a hydra a couple times, but they aren't much of a trouble to me. They're extremely slow, are rather horrid at close combat without bubble, and they're one of the easiest things to snipe as a charger. Sure it's a solid choice of a weapon, but it is no means overpowered.
"But they're not slow, they run so much run speed up!" That just means their gear slots are being used up by that ability, most hydras I meet usually have two main equivalents of run speed, which doesn't allow them to run other abilities like swim speed or ink recovery up.



If you see an E-liter's laser constantly like that, they're not using the weapon nearly effectively. In fact that's a terrible way to use the E-liter.


Actually the splatterscope barely outranges the hydra, but I can see where you're going.



Why the hydra isn't considered to be on par with the dynamo is because the dynamo has a HUGE one-flick kill that goes a great distance, also the dynamo is a very good weapon to trade with, and it has a better kit than the vanilla hydra. Meanwhile the hydra plays differently, it plays as a defensive turf manager who can maintain a part of a map, however a hydra doesn't just go into mid, it stays back and earns its keep.

Honestly the custom hydra is a great weapon, but to deem it as overpowered with it's awful mobility, monstrous ink consumption, and their pitiful close combat abilities without bubble, just doesn't make me see it as overpowered, at least in my eyes anyway. Sorry about the long post, and somewhat ramble, but I had to disagree.
While I agree with you in that Hydras aren't as OP as other weapons were/are, I feel that a part of your verdict hinges on the fact you main snipers, who are hard counters to Hydras.
For a main of the low-range weapons who can't countersnipe, getting to a Hydras perch can be very frustrating especially when taking surprise Bubblers into account.
 

Magnus0

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So, what about the cherry?

Its kit is monstrous on tower control, and still quite decent at the other modes depending on the map. It's a fairly map specific weapon, bu I think kt's unmatched pushing power on TC and nice turd
 

ThatOneGuy

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I feel that a part of your verdict hinges on the fact you main snipers, who are hard counters to Hydras.
Yeah, I was kind of thinking about it in terms of other weapons, but I don't get too much of a grip of the short range problem. Still, I must say my response is rather charger-biased, because I'm familiar with it. And yes, snipers are extremely hard counters to hydras, making them not nearly to the rank of "Overpowered status"
Still, I think short ranged weapons can get rid of a hydra if they flank it before it gets bubble, or if it does get bubble, there's the 1 hit KO of a roller, blaster, or you could burst cancel the hydra before it even gets a chance to bubble. However you'll have to be accurate to pull these strategies off, but getting rid of a hydra is extremely beneficial to your advancement.

@Heart of Ice, I've seen some of the arguments before hand about the E-liter and it's variants, and the E-liter is an amazing support weapon. It's sheer range is enough to make some teams absolutely helpless against a good user. It's presence on some maps allows it to be able to completely secure the middle ground all by itself, also it fits well on most teams being that long-ranged defensive weapon. However, I feel that it's not overpowered in the slightest, and that it does not deserve to be put in a tier above every other weapon in the game. It has weaknesses.

Firstly, this weapon's ink usage is atrocious. It can only shoot 3 and 3/4ths worth of fully charged shots, before it runs out of ink. This means, without damage up, you'll have to always fully charge to get the one-shot on a foe. To get 4 fully charged shots, you'll need at least: a main of ink saver main and one sub to get the forth consecutive shot in. With this in mind, your gear loadout is already leaning towards damage up and ink saver main/ink recovery up, already limiting your choices in abilities to use. Most E-liters typically use about 1 main 2 subs of damage up ranging to 3 mains of damage up. So with this in mind, you've probably sacrificed half (most likely more than that) of your gear loadout to just those perks. Meaning if you want Tenacity or Cold Blooded, you're probably going to miss out on mobility perks or vice versa.

Secondly, the E-liter is not immediately superior to other snipers. I know it has quite a bit more range than the splatterscopes, but it doesn't make them inferior by any means. The splatterscope line has about two lines less than an E-liter scope, making quite the difference here, however if you can get the opposing E-liter into your optimal range as a splatterscope, you've turned the tables and the gun fight is now in your favor.

Your charge time as a splatterscope is much faster than an E-liter's full charge, also partial charging for the E-liter isn't an option because they nerfed the range on that. Another factor on the splatterscope's side is that they have much more shots to try and kill the opposing E-liter with, having just over 5 fully charged shots at your disposal, instead of the aforementioned slow 3 and 3/4ths of a shot.

Also for combating other snipers, the Bento splatterscope and the Kelp Splatterscope are great choices for combating other long-ranged weapons. The Kelp has a killer wail, which makes the charger move out of their peak/position, and gives the kelp some time to predict where the other sniper will be. Meanwhile, the Bento is amazing at dealing with other chargers, the splash wall makes the other sniper either wait until the wall is out, or makes the other sniper waste a shot on the sub weapon, meanwhile the Bento user can either challenge the sniper with the protection of a wall, or use the wall just to see where the other sniper is. Other than that, echolocator is a great tool for any sniper, allowing you to see where the enemies are, and it instantly refills your tank with its non-existent cooldown.

Other than that, the E-liter is still a dominant force in the metagame with it's unstoppable range and amazing kits on both of the variants, it can literally tear up teams that aren't ready for it. However deeming it as overpowered with its limited mobility, awful ink usage, and long charge time is a bit ridiculous to me.

This is just my current thought about the E-liter, and the custom hydra, however I somewhat ranted on about the E-liter, and I'm sorry about that, and for this insanely long post. But hope you guys enjoy this wall of text. :D
 

MoonLover101

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In a shooter game tier are pointless. Tier list can make the player be more worried about how good a (insert here) is and be way more focused on that than anything else and don't try the lower/weaker part of the (insert here)/cast. Tier list shouldn't be used. Just saying my opinion on tier list
 

Lyn

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In a shooter game tier are pointless. Tier list can make the player be more worried about how good a (insert here) is and be way more focused on that than anything else and don't try the lower/weaker part of the (insert here)/cast. Tier list shouldn't be used. Just saying my opinion on tier list
You must not have played many shooter games with loadouts, then.

Weapons can be viable, unviable, and overpowered just like any fighting game, just look at TF2 for example.
 

MoonLover101

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In Splatoon how can a weapon be overpowered when a HDN might be able to defeat and octoshot. No weapon can be bad, good, or overpowered in this game. Every weapon goes even.
 

Lyn

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In Splatoon how can a weapon be overpowered when a HDN might be able to defeat and octoshot. No weapon can be bad, good, or overpowered in this game. Every weapon goes even.
There is an edit button, try not to double post.

Also, that's really not how balance works at all. No, not all weapons are even. This tier list isn't fact, and shouldn't be taken as the 'definitive list', but saying every weapon is exactly the same in terms of competitive viability is simply wrong.

(Hypothetically) That's like saying because Lucas (who in this hypothetical scenario is low tier) has a winning matchup against Rosalina (a top tier), this makes them even characters, and nobody can be bad or overpowered.
 

MoonLover101

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Though he may be a low tier, but every character/weapon has a weakness. Top tiers in smash for example have a weakness that doesn't make them low tier. Everything must have a weakness. So everything is fair.
 

binx

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Even if you had a weapon with sploosh's range, .96's fire rate, aerospray's accuracy and damage vs a 1HKO carbon roller with the range of a dynamo, the first still has a chance to kill the latter. Yet you can't say the weapons are balanced just because the chance exists... The problem is, if a weapon gives just a bit more chances to win, then it's stronger.

From my point of view it's plain impossible to make all the weapons balanced, there are too many differences between *all* these weapons. So you'll still have weapon slighty better than others, and weapons you can use only if some conditions are met (about map, mode, partners,...). It does make sense to compare the weapons, and it's often interesting to discuss it.

But well, that aside, the very author of the tier list made a disclaimer to prevent these discussions, so... Let's not talk about that. If you did not see the disclaimer, it's at the end of the "have fun" link. Yeah, "have fun", it's a hint.
 

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