line marker sucks, let’s make it better!

[chaotik0]

i already talked about sub weapon reworks but in that one i chose sprinkler, so this time i will talk about the next worst sub weapon, line marker! let us know your thoughts or suggest your own reworks for the sub, that would be pretty cool

also here is what i said about sprinkler for the people interested, so they dont have to dig through my profile https://squidboards.com/threads/what-sub-weapon-reworks-do-you-want-to-see.43593/

anyway, here is my idea

increase range and speed that the marker travels at, and it now pierces through players you hit
paints a thin trail under its line
a direct now deals 55 damage (old 45), and the tripwire now deals 30 damage (old 0)
you can take multiple hits of the marker if you move through the tripwire multiple times, but also now that the marker pierces, you can direct someone and have it bounce off a wall to hit them again, which will kill (but that would be difficult to actually pull off)
also make the aiming actually line up with the main reticle

if that sounds like a lot, this is just what i think the weapon needs to be as good as at least most of the other subs like splat bomb instead of the bare minimum it needs to be just decent

also it would still be difficult to use, but now the value you get would match the difficulty to use, but also now it can deal damage just by being set up even if you don’t hit anyone, so it is still easier to use than before, but doing it that way might not get max value

 

[Grushi]

I don't know how I feel about dart two shotting, since a lot of time you have enough range to essentially throw them from spawn and hitting two in a row isn't that hard with the location effect: every dart weapon would just get to have a mini unreactable eliter on their kit which sounds insane but also kind of hilarious. But for the sake of everyone's sanity I think it should do 45 damage max, which also helps against sub defence killing some combos rahhhghhhgdfuzfdh

And this thing has basically liter range as is so idk if more range is really that healthy a buff

But I don't want to seem too negative with your ideas, I like basically everything else and the line should 2000% deal damage that would make it way more interesting to use and to fight!

I totally agree that it would need a LOT in order to be a strong sub you'd actually want on your weapon, but the more I've used it, the more I realize... I kind of love dart lmao, this might be my favourite sub, I wish I was joking, but strong dart might be a pain in the spaghetti to fight since it's completely unreactable, unlike bombs at least

 

[chaotik0]

I don't know how I feel about dart two shotting, since a lot of time you have enough range to essentially throw them from spawn and hitting two in a row isn't that hard with the location effect: every dart weapon would just get to have a mini unreactable eliter on their kit which sounds insane but also kind of hilarious. But for the sake of everyone's sanity I think it should do 45 damage max, which also helps against sub defence killing some combos rahhhghhhgdfuzfdh

And this thing has basically liter range as is so idk if more range is really that healthy a buff

But I don't want to seem too negative with your ideas, I like basically everything else and the line should 2000% deal damage that would make it way more interesting to use and to fight!

I totally agree that it would need a LOT in order to be a strong sub you'd actually want on your weapon, but the more I've used it, the more I realize... I kind of love dart lmao, this might be my favourite sub, I wish I was joking, but strong dart might be a pain in the spaghetti to fight since it's completely unreactable, unlike bombs at least

you are kinda right about the range, i only said that because then it would have more potential to bounce a lot and still have range to hit people, but that isn’t the main way the sub is used so maybe more range shouldn’t be a thing

maybe it can gain a little range each time it bounces but that seems complicated for a sub weapon

also it is really fun to use and that’s why i want it to be actually good

oh yeah and the 55 damage for a two shot was supposed to be for ricochet shots that hit the same target twice, but that isn’t the main way this sub is used and that doesn’t work on most maps
plus it takes 80% ink tank to throw 2 line markers, so if you hit both, i think it should kill

 

[Grushi]

you are kinda right about the range, i only said that because then it would have more potential to bounce a lot and still have range to hit people, but that isn’t the main way the sub is used so maybe more range shouldn’t be a thing

maybe it can gain a little range each time it bounces but that seems complicated for a sub weapon

also it is really fun to use and that’s why i want it to be actually good

oh yeah and the 55 damage for a two shot was supposed to be for ricochet shots that hit the same target twice, but that isn’t the main way this sub is used and that doesn’t work on most maps
plus it takes 80% ink tank to throw 2 line markers, so if you hit both, i think it should kill

I see what you mean with making it bounce further, that would be fun

And yeah, throwing two darts is really commital, so maybe it should be rewarded if you manage to hit both, but it definitely makes it WAY more threatening to fight damn

 

[the splatling kid]

I think it should drain 10% of your ink-tank on a direct hit and only 5% if you touch the tripwire.

I don't know if that's taking it to far but I think it would be fun that way.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I like giving it more range when it bounces. However I think it should get less extra range each time, or else it might be possible for it to bounce back and forth in a small space essentially forever. For example, mid in inkblot zones.

I also think being able to kill with 2 darts would be broken. Or, even if it's not, it would still feel insanely unfair to fight. Your only warning before getting killed is the first dart, and you have less than half a second to react and get behind cover before dying. Even if the user takes time to aim them, they don't have a laser like chargers do. Killing with one dart is even worse. It might be hard to pull off, but it would be literally unreactable.

What if it only cost 30% of the ink tank? Killing with only darts would still be possible with a three shot, but it would be harder and easier to react to. It would also make dart easier to use for other things, like feet painting and chip damage. Also, missing would be less punishing because you didn't waste as much of your ink tank.

 

[Babab]

i already talked about sub weapon reworks but in that one i chose sprinkler, so this time i will talk about the next worst sub weapon, line marker! let us know your thoughts or suggest your own reworks for the sub, that would be pretty cool

also here is what i said about sprinkler for the people interested, so they dont have to dig through my profile https://squidboards.com/threads/what-sub-weapon-reworks-do-you-want-to-see.43593/

anyway, here is my idea

increase range and speed that the marker travels at, and it now pierces through players you hit
paints a thin trail under its line
a direct now deals 55 damage (old 45), and the tripwire now deals 30 damage (old 0)
you can take multiple hits of the marker if you move through the tripwire multiple times, but also now that the marker pierces, you can direct someone and have it bounce off a wall to hit them again, which will kill (but that would be difficult to actually pull off)
also make the aiming actually line up with the main reticle

if that sounds like a lot, this is just what i think the weapon needs to be as good as at least most of the other subs like splat bomb instead of the bare minimum it needs to be just decent

also it would still be difficult to use, but now the value you get would match the difficulty to use, but also now it can deal damage just by being set up even if you don’t hit anyone, so it is still easier to use than before, but doing it that way might not get max value

Maybe you have all those buffs but also a consumption nerf so you can’t throw 2 on one tank- maybe if it took 55% of your ink tank

 

[chaotik0]

Maybe you have all those buffs but also a consumption nerf so you can’t throw 2 on one tank- maybe if it took 55% of your ink tank

oh yeah thats actually a good idea why didnt i think of that (because brain mush)

 

[chaotik0]

I think it should drain 10% of your ink-tank on a direct hit and only 5% if you touch the tripwire.

I don't know if that's taking it to far but I think it would be fun that way.

that is really interesting, it gives ink draining effects to dart like toxic mist has

however line marker is already a jack of all trades, master of none. giving it more stuff to do doesn’t make it good if all of those things aren’t that good.

 

[QuagSass]

I'm not sure how I feel about the marker trail having a lingering hitbox that can damage you multiple times. I could see it making some small chokepoints into a death trap that you can't see coming like you can with a bomb. Do you have to move out of the trail to make it do damage again? What if the marker paints your feet, forcing you to be in it's trail for a bit. Are you still taking damage that entire time like with a Sprinkler?
Maybe if the trail did less damage that could work, but then it just becomes useless outside of those chokes since anything less than 30 doesn't really combo anymore.
I'd say keep the 30 damage but only make it do that damage once, like the Wave Breaker. Maybe bump the trail damage to 45 while you're at it. Make the direct 55 and trail 45.

I like a bunch of the other stuff here. Making the marker pierce and potentially have it skewer multiple people would be pretty silly. Fish kebab

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

oh yeah thats actually a good idea why didnt i think of that (because brain mush)

This would only make the sub's problems worse.
Why would you use more than half of your ink tank just for the potential to do 55 damage?

I'm not sure how I feel about the marker trail having a lingering hitbox that can damage you multiple times. I could see it making some small chokepoints into a death trap that you can't see coming like you can with a bomb. Do you have to move out of the trail to make it do damage again? What if the marker paints your feet, forcing you to be in it's trail for a bit. Are you still taking damage that entire time like with a Sprinkler?

I agree with this sentiment. I think each dart should only be able to damage you 1 time.

 

[QueueS]

I think that the tripwire ability is a must and it would be really cool to see what people do with that. I think only being able to hit once for 35-40 damage would be ok?
Also, what if directs had a similar effect to disruptor from s1 (nerfed of course)?

 

[chaotik0]

This would only make the sub's problems worse.
Why would you use more than half of your ink tank just for the potential to do 55 damage?


I agree with this sentiment. I think each dart should only be able to damage you 1 time.

i used line marker a lot, the difficulty to actually hit is a bit exaggerated (but at top level players actually play around sight lines so that’s probably what was being talked about)
its not so difficult to hit that it is only a “potential” for 55 damage, but it still isn’t the easiest thing. the problem with it is that the value you get out of the hit was barely anything and the tripwire effect did basically nothing
with these buffs, the extra ink cost would make the 55% cost so much less obnoxious to fight and probably feel more fair

 

[Grushi]

What if it only cost 30% of the ink tank? Killing with only darts would still be possible with a three shot, but it would be harder and easier to react to. It would also make dart easier to use for other things, like feet painting and chip damage. Also, missing would be less punishing because you didn't waste as much of your ink tank.

I really like this idea actually, it's not like triple dart would be broken and hell, it would probably be a good thing, punishing backlines that never move the whole game.

Plus we've never really had this before, a sub weapon that doesn't have nearly as much power as the others but trades that for having a really cheap cost, allowing you to use a lot of them to make up for that. I don't know if that'd make it more valuable in comps, but it's an interesting concept

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

i used line marker a lot, the difficulty to actually hit is a bit exaggerated (but at top level players actually play around sight lines so that’s probably what was being talked about)
its not so difficult to hit that it is only a “potential” for 55 damage, but it still isn’t the easiest thing. the problem with it is that the value you get out of the hit was barely anything and the tripwire effect did basically nothing
with these buffs, the extra ink cost would make the 55% cost so much less obnoxious to fight and probably feel more fair

Even if it's not as hard to hit as I made it sound, you're still going to miss sometimes. And those times, you will have accomplished not very much

I also think that if dart is buffed this way, and enough to be good, it wouldn't really be great for the game. Like, imagine getting hit by a slosher or .52 or something, and then someone snipes you from across the map with angle shooter. It might be funny the first few times, but it would get really annoying. Especially with the maps being like they are.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

Plus we've never really had this before, a sub weapon that doesn't have nearly as much power as the others but trades that for having a really cheap cost, allowing you to use a lot of them to make up for that. I don't know if that'd make it more valuable in comps, but it's an interesting concept

I'm pretty sure this is what they were going for with burst bomb in S1 (it cost 25% initially), but it ended up being not as low power as they thought.

I didn't play S1 until after it stopped getting patches though, and it would be really fun to throw 3 subs in a row

 

[chaotik0]

Even if it's not as hard to hit as I made it sound, you're still going to miss sometimes. And those times, you will have accomplished not very much

I also think that if dart is buffed this way, and enough to be good, it wouldn't really be great for the game. Like, imagine getting hit by a slosher or .52 or something, and then someone snipes you from across the map with angle shooter. It might be funny the first few times, but it would get really annoying. Especially with the maps being like they are.

imagine getting hit by a slosher or stamper charge slash and someone burst bombs you from around a corner
or imagine trying to shark and someone covers the entire mid of hammerhead with 2 point sensors
imagine turning a corner or dropping a ledge only to instantly get exploded by a hidden splat bomb
imagine having to shoot 1 time at a sprinkler that was being mildly inconvenient
okay that last one was a joke but hopefully im getting a point across

also the 45 damage is already enough to combo with 1 slosh or inderect blaster shot or stamper charge slash or rapid direct or burst bomb direct (unless bdu) or dynamo vertical at a certain range

oh and also i went back on the extra range because that probably is a bit much, it's range is fine already, i just wanted it to be able to bounce a lot and still have the range to hit someone (i dont remember if i said that to you or someone else)

making up for your teammates missing shots and letting the enemy get away is cool, but yeah at too much range that would be kinda annoying i guess, but combined with the other buffs i said, yeah that would be too good

also this is what i think would make the sub be close to the same strength as something like splat bomb

also (genuinely realizing how much i say also, someone hand me a thesaurus) there is no way they would actually give these buffs and honestly im not expecting any buffs. not really related to this particularly but it makes me sad

 

[DzNutsKong]

Also, what if directs had a similar effect to disruptor from s1 (nerfed of course)?

I've seen this idea floating around and as it currently stands this how I'd want to see them buff it the most. I don't think it should last nearly as long as Disruptor, the damage should probably be lowered a bit, and the ink tank usage should be like 70%, but something this difficult to hit should be very high-reward if you actually do manage to hit it. Ideally you'd need to actually follow up on it quickly in order for it to do anything so it can't just be used as a Hail Mary where you absolutely need pinpoint aim but guarantee a kill if you hit someone with it.

Ultimately that could get pretty annoying for some people and I don't know how else I'd make it better. There's no way it'll ever truly be a GOOD subweapon. Bombs just do way too much for a team in a way that I don't know if this will ever reach without going completely overboard and being stupid like that one Angle Shooter challenge they had. Maybe you could just make the hitbox bigger, and then make it get even bigger again after it touches a wall? Could help it go around corners to threaten people you can't see even if it's still never gonna be consistent.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I've seen this idea floating around and as it currently stands this how I'd want to see them buff it the most. I don't think it should last nearly as long as Disruptor, the damage should probably be lowered a bit, and the ink tank usage should be like 70%, but something this difficult to hit should be very high-reward if you actually do manage to hit it. Ideally you'd need to actually follow up on it quickly in order for it to do anything so it can't just be used as a Hail Mary where you absolutely need pinpoint aim but guarantee a kill if you hit someone with it.

Ultimately that could get pretty annoying for some people and I don't know how else I'd make it better. There's no way it'll ever truly be a GOOD subweapon. Bombs just do way too much for a team in a way that I don't know if this will ever reach without going completely overboard and being stupid like that one Angle Shooter challenge they had. Maybe you could just make the hitbox bigger, and then make it get even bigger again after it touches a wall? Could help it go around corners to threaten people you can't see even if it's still never gonna be consistent.

I think it is possible for bombs and utility subs to be equal. Give toxic mist something insane, like opponents in it move 90% slower than before, and it is better than bombs. Then gradually tone it back. Somewhere between mist's current state and the insane buffed version is a version that is equal in strength to bombs.

The challenge is buffing it in a way that both makes the sub better balance-wise while still being fun to play against, and also healthy for the game. The example I mentioned fails this test.

 

[Reefsnappr]

i already talked about sub weapon reworks but in that one i chose sprinkler, so this time i will talk about the next worst sub weapon, line marker! let us know your thoughts or suggest your own reworks for the sub, that would be pretty cool

also here is what i said about sprinkler for the people interested, so they dont have to dig through my profile https://squidboards.com/threads/what-sub-weapon-reworks-do-you-want-to-see.43593/

anyway, here is my idea

increase range and speed that the marker travels at, and it now pierces through players you hit
paints a thin trail under its line
a direct now deals 55 damage (old 45), and the tripwire now deals 30 damage (old 0)
you can take multiple hits of the marker if you move through the tripwire multiple times, but also now that the marker pierces, you can direct someone and have it bounce off a wall to hit them again, which will kill (but that would be difficult to actually pull off)
also make the aiming actually line up with the main reticle

if that sounds like a lot, this is just what i think the weapon needs to be as good as at least most of the other subs like splat bomb instead of the bare minimum it needs to be just decent

also it would still be difficult to use, but now the value you get would match the difficulty to use, but also now it can deal damage just by being set up even if you don’t hit anyone, so it is still easier to use than before, but doing it that way might not get max value

This are great buffs but if it were to have this much power it would need to be more expensive of a sub. Being able to spam 30 damage trip lines would need to be a more costly effort and less incentivized so the one shot would also be worth it.