Mouse functionality on Joycons has been confirmed for Switch 2. I have stuff to say about this

[DzNutsKong]

Earlier today, for I think the first time, Switch 2 Joycon patents have been shown to the public and have basically hard confirmed this as opposed to it just being a rumor? Maybe I missed something in the timeline since I haven't been keeping super close tabs on Switch 2 stuff. I figured I'd make a new thread because I have a lot to say about it and much of it wouldn't fit in a month-old thread about leaks.

First up, this is a straight-up good thing for Splatoon and I don't think there's much of an argument otherwise. Adding a new, popular control scheme that people familiar with most other shooters are already comfortable with is a huge deal. Even though the center of gravity on the Joycon might be a bit too high for this to be super comfortable I could totally see some third-party companies making some Joycon attachment or some entirely separate controller for this.

I have had not one, but multiple friends who are interested in Nintendo but don't play Splatoon very often tell me that they straight-up would play this game if not for gyro controls being uncomfortable for them. One of them plays Fortnite once a week minimum, one of them played Overwatch like crazy at its peak. I don't play either of these games and so I can't say how similar they are for sure, but I'm confident both of them have decent enough understandings of how positioning works and could totally adjust to Splatoon if given enough time.

My one big concern (other than the possibility that Nintendo, for some ungodly reason, does not put mouse controls into Splatoon) is that they screw up the sensitivity and people who like mouse controls end up hating it still. I know they made sticks way too slow for the people that like those since even on the highest sensitivity they have it's straight-up not possible for you to turn quickly enough for a lot of situations the game throws at you at higher levels. If they mess up this first time then I could see a bunch of first-time onlookers feeling burned and not wanting to give the series a second chance even if they fix it in a later installment. If this becomes a big issue then maybe they could fix it in an update but their half fix for and subsequent ignoring of Splattercolor Screen doesn't leave me confident that they can handle it.

For those of you who don't know how to play mouse like I do, don't worry about it making motion controls obsolete like how sticks are right now. I don't see this happening. I'll give a heads up that mouse controls will probably be better unless they seriously mess something up, and as a result a bunch of people may start parroting this without thinking much deeper, but the difference between the two won't be nearly as bad. The physical movement of mouse will always be a little bit faster and may probably leave less room for error than rotating a big controller around but I don't see the difference being anything more than marginal. On weapons with a slower fire rate or easier aiming the difference will likely end up physically unnoticeable. Mouse will still be both a tiny bit faster in practice and will be easier to learn if you aren't already accustomed to motion, but it'll only change your game speed by like a few frames anyways.

I guess the one counterargument someone could make is that a lot of diehard shooter communities are known for being pretty toxic and that we could see more of that here, but being honest, Splatoon's community isn't perfect about that either. It's WAY better than those games but it's not like we don't see some nonsense here already and it's not like Nintendo doesn't have stuff in place keeping it from ever getting too bad. There's a reason there aren't any super direct ways of chatting with your teammates outside of weird friendlist stuff that as far as we're concerned might end up getting removed as well.

And as great as it sounds for Splatoon to potentially have a big opening into the biggest broader community in all of gaming, it won't play out quite like that in practice for reasons that I'm sure many of you already know. "Person who plays other shooters and is willing to try Nintendo games" is simply not a very big demographic. Not all of them, but a huge chunk of those people are still under the stigma that Nintendo is for kids and this colorful game shouldn't be enjoyed by anyone over the age of 12.

I literally watched a video a month or two ago about a pro in some other shooter who even went as far to say that he doesn't think Nintendo consoles are capable of having competitive crowds! An opinion that obtuse can only come from a deep-rooted misunderstanding on top of years of being in an in-group where nobody "worth your respect" has disagreed with you. Sure enough, I went to the most recent comments of that video. Of the people who weren't first-time viewers of his channel from the Splatoon community, many of them saw no issue with that statement or were even going as far as saying that they "know this guy has the right opinion so often that I don't even need to fact check him."


Starting to get off topic but the state of gaming as a whole is really quite upsetting to me. You've got all these people nonstop telling everyone how video games aren't fun anymore, that there's nothing to play these days and that everything feels the same and what have you. In that video I mentioned a second ago the guy said that there's a big chunk of the shooter playerbase that apparently wants a new movement shooter! There's a shooter right here for you that ticks all of these boxes but apparently you're completely unwilling to give it a shot.

I heard a quote the other day that I'm going to get very wrong, but the bottom line was something along the lines of this... "Feeling the need to keep yourself away from certain things because you need to be more adult does not make you more adult. Becoming an adult will naturally happen on its own and by thinking this, your brain is trying to tie fun to something that needs removed from your life." I don't completely agree with this quote, especially because of the later half, but locking yourself out of experiences that otherwise might be enjoyable because of something that has no impact on the game's function is kind of a sad way to look at things.

I think the thing that ties all of this together is the big influencers getting like this. People are setting up a vicious cycle where a new generation of young gamers plays a shooter game because it's "not for kids," then getting hooked because these other shooters probably have a decent gameplay loop too, then looking up whatever YouTuber plays their favorite game only to hear their horrible takes on gaming as a whole. Those kids grow up to become the next influencers, rinse and repeat. It's especially baffling to me that all of this has started geting more and more popular as video games have started getting more and more accessible, with good PCs being in more households than consoles and game development being easier than ever.


Looping back to the main point of the thread, despite what you might be thinking from all of this, I don't really care whether or not Splatoon is more popular from this whole mouse Joycon thing. We already have our own little community of players and that's plenty for you to play and enjoy it as normal. There would be differences for sure, with metas probably being solved more quickly and random solo queue encounters being less common for example, but no matter how dead some people claim the game is there are still hundreds of thousands of people active in X-Rank alone.

ProChara made a pretty interesting point about how Splatoon will likely see some big support earlier on because this is exactly the kind of game that Nintendo should want to push with the added mouse functionality. I mean, what genre of games is known for mouse and keyboard controls better than shooters? The one hole in his argument for me is that there's nothing stopping Nintendo from making a 1-2-Switch or Wii Sports or Nintendo Land sort of equivalent to try and show off the console on launch and leaving it there. Plus I don't think shooters are as big in the east?? Maybe I'm wrong though and there's no way Nintendo of America wouldn't share some tips about how well Fortnite, CoD, and so on are doing even in the worst case.

Still though, it would make more sense for Nintendo to do something for Splatoon on the Switch 2's launch than for them to not. It's not like Nintendo hasn't done anything completely nonsensical like this before, but I'm not gonna act like they don't know what they're doing either. Highest-earning company in Japan for good reason. And spoilers I guess, but

Spoiler

it's not like we didn't just get a datamine that HEAVILY implies some kind of new content coming soon for Splatoon 3.

Bottom line is that I can only see good things happening for Splatoon from this feature. More people will give the game some time which will only say good things to the developers and there's a high likelihood we'll be getting more new content sooner rather than later. I don't expect too many responses to this thread since we already had one on mouse controls but maybe I've put an idea forward here that'll spark some discussion. Hope this was an interesting read for a few of you either way.

 

[Tinybitt]

I feel like I want to throw my two cents in, since it is (or was at least) a controversial topic for consoles specifically.

There was a big and messy argument about using mouse and keyboard for shooters on consoles. Mainly in competitive first person shooters on ps4/xOne. There was almost a literal mouse (and like... half a keyboard XD) that would plug into the usb slot on the console that let users ignore the joystick and play with m&k. While it seemed like a perfect thing, it was Severely hated by the community and everyone who used one would be thrown under one group and ignored. Some people claimed that it was way easier to aim, other people said that it broke the competitiveness since people were not equalized by having the same setups and etc. It was pretty messy.

Aside from this argument though, I remember seeing reviews of these kits for consoles (I believe it was from LGR on YouTube) and his general opinion of it was: "It's cool for the novelty, but the games are literally not made for these controls." Since a lot of console games have various aim assists, and m&k breaks that by making the mouse imprecise by nature. Also, in games that do not use aim assist (Such as competitive console shooters), it still isn't perfect due to the mechanics of the game accounting for stick deadzones. Like, the very slight mouse movements will not be registered by the game. I also remember seeing reviews for m&k adapters in the specific context of the comp. games on consoles and that was pretty much their verdict as well.

This also might be a personal opinion as well and may not turn out to be true, but I also believe that it would not be super comfortable using the left joy con as the "keyboard" in this metaphor. It's not as ergonomic to be held by only one hand. Also, if Splat 4 does ship with joy-con mouse support, there would be a slight challenge of not being able to access the face buttons.

Reading this post, some people might think that I don't want mouse support in Splat 4, but I think it would be awesome, to be completely honest. This is a literal game changer for chargers (E-Liter meta incoming) and it would be very nice for people who do not want or can't use gyro aiming. I just think it would be very difficult to implement without making the game unplayable for stick players or mouse players. HOWEVER, if the game has specific modes for both m&k and stick&gyro, it would be possible.

Also regarding the potential toxicity and influx of new players and whatnot. The absolutely toxic players from those consoles are extremely conservative in the games they play and they also primarily stick to the same platform. I don't think that we would have to deal with them all that much since Splatoon is way too much of a deviation for them. For other players however, it might be a different story. I think the addition of mouse controls might compel them to try the game but from my understanding, a lot of casual players play only for about 10 hours and after that move on to something else, not because they hated what they played but simply because they had their fill of experiences. It is also kind of unfortunate that there was an opinion about splatoon 3 that basically sounded like "Why do we need another splatoon when we already have splatoon 2 on switch?" which I could also understand in a way. From a casual fan's point of view, it's not super different aside from having tricolor battles and a few new specials and weapon classes. I feel like this would in term lead to people ignoring the game without giving it a chance and potentially getting hooked on it.

Anyway, this is a pretty big ramble. I am very curious though as to what Nintendo would do with a joy-con mouse. I really really hope that it would be supported way more than HD-rumble or the IR camera. They both had a few neat experiences but that's about it.

 

[LemonBoy]

WARNING this post will contain leaks, if you do not wish to see any of it, please stop reading

Spoiler: LEAKS

If we want to get into leaks, patents were leaked today, on how the joy cons will work AND pro controllers with this same mouse functionality. From the little we have, I think the pro con will attach (probably with magnets like the joy cons to the switch 2 itself), and detatch to work as such. This could very well make the joy cons almost invalid (again) because of the better comfort that the pro controller will probably have.

Also I got the images from the following article: https://www.theverge.com/news/608018/nintendo-switch-2-patents-joy-con-pro-controller-mouse-magnets

 

[sly_snivy]

I am cautiously optimistic about the Joy-Con mouse. I do think it is great for drawing new players in, and a lot of cool new ideas can be made with the feature. We will have to see how it affects Splatoon 4, or perhaps how it will affect Splatoon 3 if Joy-Con mouse will be allowed on Switch 1 games. I just really hope it doesn't devolve into a certain aim option being better than another if they are allowed to play matches together. I almost think it would be worse if they take the approach other shooters have taken like Marvel Rivals and completely splitting the playerbase. That would make the queuing situation even worse if nothing changes, and gives Nintendo a great chance to make the problem worse via changes. On the face of it though, it is a great idea and I hope they take care in implementing it properly, because this could do numbers for Splatoon's exposure in the West, even if many don't stick around.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

There was a big and messy argument about using mouse and keyboard for shooters on consoles. Mainly in competitive first person shooters on ps4/xOne. There was almost a literal mouse (and like... half a keyboard XD) that would plug into the usb slot on the console that let users ignore the joystick and play with m&k. While it seemed like a perfect thing, it was Severely hated by the community and everyone who used one would be thrown under one group and ignored. Some people claimed that it was way easier to aim, other people said that it broke the competitiveness since people were not equalized by having the same setups and etc. It was pretty messy.

Aside from this argument though, I remember seeing reviews of these kits for consoles (I believe it was from LGR on YouTube) and his general opinion of it was: "It's cool for the novelty, but the games are literally not made for these controls." Since a lot of console games have various aim assists, and m&k breaks that by making the mouse imprecise by nature. Also, in games that do not use aim assist (Such as competitive console shooters), it still isn't perfect due to the mechanics of the game accounting for stick deadzones. Like, the very slight mouse movements will not be registered by the game. I also remember seeing reviews for m&k adapters in the specific context of the comp. games on consoles and that was pretty much their verdict as well.

I don't think mouse controls will be hated in the same way, for a few reasons. The biggest one is that it comes with the console; the joycon is the mouse, so it's not an extra advantage to anyone because anyone who's playing the game already has it. If they release a separate mouse as a peripheral that is significantly more ergonomic, I could see this being an issue, but to me that feels like the mouse equivalent of buying a pro controller. I don't know if the general community will see it that way though.

The other reason is that I can already see the community's reaction to it. I'm not active on a ton of social media but everything I've seen has been basically the same reaction. People recognize that this will bring in new people that wouldn't have been willing to give the game a try otherwise, and that's a huge deal for a game that's often seen as a kids' shooter.

If they do release a separate mouse, which wouldn't surprise me, I could definitely see people complaining about it, but I don't think it'll be more than people complaining about their opponents being sweaty, which they would do anyway. We'll have to see though.

 

[missingno]

The problem with third party mouse adapters is that it's outright cheating. You're using an input scheme that's not meant to be supported in order to have a distinct advantage over players on controller. If you wanted a level playing field, you'd go use that mouse on PC against other mouse users, doing it on console really means you're doing it to cheat.

But if Nintendo officially supports mouse-like input, then it's official. Just like with gyro vs sticks, it's an adapt-or-die situation. We accept that it's on players to pick the better option, if you choose to play on sticks that was your choice and you forfeit all right to complain.

But unlike gyro vs sticks, mouse and gyro are theoretically equivalent in that they're both positional input schemes. You can move a precise distance, and your reticle will instantly move that same distance. Stick sucks because it doesn't work this way, you can only control the velocity of your reticle rather than its exact position, which means both speed and precision suffer.

In practice though, I think mouse is arguably easier for a human player to be both fast and precise with. If you want to improve, you should probably play mouse in S4. I just wonder what the gap will look like at top level.

I expect it to be like pad vs. stick vs. leverless in fighting games - on paper they're all theoretically equivalent, but there's a reason more and more top players are swearing by leverless these days. But we also still see pad and stick players who are perfectly competitive, they're not extinct.

 

[Tinybitt]

It is kind of interesting since if you play comp. shooters on console with a mouse it is considered cheating, while if you play PC comp. shooters with a gamepad, you would most likely be laughed at even though they're both the case of "Using an input scheme that's not really supported" In any case, there still are a lot of people who are good with sticks, even though motion controls are an option. Also people who are good with joy cons instead of the pro-controller. I just hope that the mouse implementation in Splatoon 4 would be an actual implementation instead of "Let's replace the stick controls with a mouse."

This is a bit of an extreme example, but I hope it makes sense. Super Mario 64 was made to be played with a joystick on the N64 controller. It was later ported to the DS but instead of using the joystick, you had to use the D-pad and the game was adjusted accordingly. If you play SM64 on the 3DS with the circle pad, sure you have a joystick that can move 360 degrees, but the game was ported and adjusted for the use with the D-pad, so it doesn't really matter that you can now control it with the joystick. It will still behave as if you're pressing the D-pad buttons. Based on that example, I hope that Splat 4 will be adjusted to work natively with the mouse instead of the mouse "emulating" joystick movements, if that makes sense.

As for third party mouse accessories, I think it entirely depends on how much Nintendo will invest into making games that use the mouse. I feel like if it will be one or two games, frankly I don't think it will be worth it.

The other reason is that I can already see the community's reaction to it. I'm not active on a ton of social media but everything I've seen has been basically the same reaction. People recognize that this will bring in new people that wouldn't have been willing to give the game a try otherwise, and that's a huge deal for a game that's often seen as a kids' shooter.

That could also absolutely be true. I know from my own experience in the beginning of splat 2 and even splat 3, I was like: "Who in their right mind uses motion controls? That is just a headache factory" when I first had to go through the tutorial and that could scare people away. It still took me a while to adjust to motion and even then, sometimes it is way too sensitive and dizzying even after playing for 2 years.

 

[Aiko.Octo]

For those of you who don't know how to play mouse like I do, don't worry about it making motion controls obsolete like how sticks are right now. I don't see this happening. I'll give a heads up that mouse controls will probably be better unless they seriously mess something up, and as a result a bunch of people may start parroting this without thinking much deeper, but the difference between the two won't be nearly as bad. The physical movement of mouse will always be a little bit faster and may probably leave less room for error than rotating a big controller around but I don't see the difference being anything more than marginal. On weapons with a slower fire rate or easier aiming the difference will likely end up physically unnoticeable. Mouse will still be both a tiny bit faster in practice and will be easier to learn if you aren't already accustomed to motion, but it'll only change your game speed by like a few frames anyways.

This is kind of my main concern; I really like motion controls and I feel like if mouse is universally better, even by a bit, I'm going to feel forced to switch to it and that's annoying. I mean I'll get over it but I'll whine about it in the meantime, lol.

I haven't watched/read other people's takes on this yet so maybe this is already addressed but like... what are the logistics of using a mouse-like controller if you want to play on the couch or something? surely using it on a soft uneven surface is going to be sub-optimal, right? I worry that might potentially be limiting.

My other concern is just how using this impacts your wrists and joints over the long haul. I use the heck out of keyboard shortcuts on PC because my hand and wrist easily start to get uncomfortable after a few hours of mouse-clicking but I need to play many more hours on the pro controller before I start feeling it. It does look like you end up gripping the joy-con-mouse (or whatever you'd call it) more like a controller than a traditional mouse but you are kind of at a weird angle so like.... I just wonder how that might all end up panning out. I'm sure if it's bad there will be 3rd party things that are better but will they be good enough? We'll see I guess.

As with most New and Upcoming things though I tend to take a wait-and-see approach, so I'm not gonna worry too much before it's here.

 

[missingno]

It is kind of interesting since if you play comp. shooters on console with a mouse it is considered cheating, while if you play PC comp. shooters with a gamepad, you would most likely be laughed at even though they're both the case of "Using an input scheme that's not really supported"

One is putting yourself at an unfair advantage, the other is willingly putting yourself at a disadvantage.

Also I'm fairly sure most PC shooters do support controller if you really want to, it's an option. Just not an option that's a good idea to use knowing full well that all your opponents are on mouse.

 

[Masked_Katz]

I'd love to give Splatoon with mouse controls a try (I eagerly will if we are able!) though I will admit, if we have to constantly hold such a small and thin controller on its side like in the trailer, I imagine it'd feel pretty uncomfortable or flimsy? If I pretend to use a current joycon as a mouse and try flicking my wrist, it easily gives way and the bottom of the controller swipes off my table. I hope the bigger joycons and their new straps will elevate that, assuming that this isn't just for some new web browser.

 

[Alphine_Agnitio]

I think the leverless v stick comparision is basically perfect, imo mouse controls in s4 would allow for more accessibility(which is something we desperately need) for people where mouse n keyboard is more famaliar and or comftorable, but it wouldn't 100% urusp motion as a viable control method - if anything I'd wager re-learning everything for mnk would be basically pointless if you alrady have 1000s of hours worth on motion, its exactly like playing on a dpad controller then switching to a stick fightpad - it takes a non-neglible amount of time to adjust and that becomes a relavent consideration when choosing controller and control scheme.

 

[Kise Ryota]

I dropped the game after splatoon 2, mainly because of the p2p connection, but secondly because the motion controls got worse than on wii u.

At the same time I was playing Splatoon 2 on Switch, I was starting my journey with motion controls on PC VR. That had a huge impact on my enjoyment with poor motion control implementations (like the Switch with the joy-cons). In 2020 I got my first VR standalone headset (Quest 2), which was mind-blowing for me; to think I was getting that level of tracking on a standalone headset... my goodness.

After that, the least I could expect from Nintendo would be a 6DoF controller too. I mean, they started this whole thing with the Wii, but after that the tech was just getting objectively worse (drift, latency, low polling rate, too aggressive smoothing... c'mon, Nintendo) when what they should have been doing was getting to the next level, which VR did.

Well, it seems all we are getting for Switch 2 is a magnetometer (again, because the wii u gamepad already had one and they removed it). I'm not holding any hopes for them releasing a camera solution that could be connected to the USB to track IR LEDs add-ons connected to the joy-cons 2.0, so at the best scenario what I'll probably end up getting could be a higher polling rate, no perceived latency (like it was on wii u), less drift (thanks to a — possibly — improved sealing for the magnetometer, having less interference), and minimal filtering/motion smoothing. If I get the whole package that will already be marvelous, although still not enough.

Like I said, I'm totally used to what VR brought to me. I can't go back now. If they do all what I said above, I'll be happy for those who will stick to motion controls, because I know it's going to improve their overall performance (specially consistence). If everyone gets better, it's better for the game.

For me, though, I'll admit that even if they keep the p2p, I'll give it another try just because of the mouse functionality (if they end up supporting it, which, to be honest, I'm not even 70% sure they will lol). If the motion aiming was as good as on my Meta Quest, I would prefer it over the mouse because, for me, it's a lot more fun than aiming with a mouse.

Now, about the p2p, if the next Mario Kart has indeed races with 24 players, and it's normal online races, that can only mean dedicated servers. Even for cheap Nintendo, it's impossible to make p2p to work in a game like Mario Kart having 24 peers.

If they are coming with dedicated servers for MK, why not to dream with Splatoon also getting it? With dedicated servers they can sell cosmetics like every other online game (which will help to pay the bills, while also giving that good profit of course). Everyone wins IMO.

So, yeah, I'm kind of excited for what Switch 2 will bring. For years now I have been expecting Nintendo to separate the singleplayer and multiplayer modes, thus releasing the multiplayer first (second half of 2025 or first half of 2026). Also, I would like them go make it f2p. One game (Splatoon Online) being available for everyone for the whole Switch 2's lifespan. That's how you make people to throw a lot of money on skins and things like that. I know that most people hate just to entertain the idea of microtransactions, but I really believe it's a needed path.

Anyway, let's see what will happen. I just want to go back to a game whose concept I truly love, but I want it to be a better game, just as better as it deserves to be IMO.

PS: post edited because I accidentally posted it too early lol