NA Splatfest is not Nintedo's Fault

[MeTaGross]

A while back I read a thread about what Nintendo can do to fix North American splatfests. I am now convinced that they can do nothing to prevent the massively lopsided games. I am on team snowman because I thought the new update would help matchmaking. It didn't

In total, I had a net win of 1 battle, and only because I switched to the kelp charger. Even with a splatfest power starting at 1600 my teams were almost always awful. The only reason I started winning was because I found a team that went 6-0. I also used my alt to check team sand around 1600 points, and nearly every battle was sand v sand. This means people are only choosing the team they think will have fewer kids, so it doesn't matter which team would have a better/worse player base, one team is always filled with A through S+ players.

 

[Coleo&Idea]

Makes sense.
Go to the less popular team as a S player. -> many other S players do the same. -> team less popular will now have many S players but they will fight against each other and not the enemy since the power doesn't allow matches vs lower ranks.
I'm really looking forward to NA result.
In 4hrs? I'm not sure, off sleeping x-)

 

[Color]

I just wish I knew exactly how matchmaking works though, because I feel like the people I'm being matched with are lower ranks. I've managed to get to Sandcastle Queen fairly easily but I had my fair deal of completely incompetent players that I had to carry. But unfortunately you are right about the whole popularity issue, but wouldn't Nintendo just be able to fix that by changing the algorithm they use to calculate wins/loses and popularity? The only splatfest I can remember where popularity won was art vs science, and that used a different calculation system because shortly after Nintendo changed it so popularity didn't matter as much. It's kind of obvious that the more popular the team the more they're going to lose, especially since they're more likely to be paired against themselves.

 

[SquiliamTentacles]

The thing is, the system is flawed.
One, the whole initial splatfest power is kind of broken. They lumped all the C's together (which do seem to have similar skill levels) all the B's together (Somewhat unbalanced from what I remember.) all the A's together (Most A games are a mix anyways, not a big deal) and all the S's together (There is a large disparity between S and S+). I am currently in S rank, but I imagine B rank must be absolute crap, and I know S rank is pretty unpredictable.
Two, basing all the results on ranked is not really the best for Turf Wars. I have had some bad games turf wise, only getting around 500 points, and I am the top scorer on my team. I think a lot of people play ranked only (as seen for all the people with the Turf War is casual mentality) and still play like that, bringing their rank-centric weapons (so many custom-e-liters) and not focusing enough on turf.
Thirdly, the matchmaking favors the less skilled team. Suppose Team Sandcastles has 2 S/ players for one on Team Snowmen (not saying this is true). Many of the S players will get stuck facing their own team, while the ones in battles have about an equal chance to win. Then, suppose the opposite scenario is true for the C players; despite the greater number of unskilled players, the matchmaking system just matches them with their own team. This trend will likely lead to the win rate being very similar, and maybe popularity might be the deciding factor (Remember how much people complained after Cats vs Dogs?)
Lastly, especially for us higher leveled players, we are used to being able to carry our team and win after win in splatfests. I think part of this salt is that now, the teams are (usually) more equal and players will not win most of the time, unless they find a really good team. The idea of losing more than usual may just be part of one's bias, people take Splatfest more seriously, and emphasize and remember the losses.
I am not saying this is Nintendo's fault, I thought it was a good idea beforehand. Still, they can do some things to improve the process (making separate initial powers for all the + and - ranks is easy, but I don't know what to do about the skill thing.)

 

[Color]

The thing is, the system is flawed.
I am currently in S rank, but I imagine B rank must be absolute crap, and I know S rank is pretty unpredictable.

Yeah there is definitely a huge skill gap in S, unfortunately there are a lot of S player who got carried there and don't actually belong.

 

[MeTaGross]

The thing is, this was a response to everyone complaining about splatfest! Everybody said the matches were always lopsided, and I still had lopsided battles. This helps, but the only way popularity will win is if the multiplier is changed so it is equal or wins are only x2. Splatfest is still broken because of the players though. If people would pick the team they want to win and not the "winning team," then we would never have a problem. Cats v dogs was during the early days and art v science was really hard for people to predict, that is why it was so good. If people chose the way they did then, then the problem would be fixed.

 

[subata]

The thing is, this was a response to everyone complaining about splatfest! Everybody said the matches were always lopsided, and I still had lopsided battles. This helps, but the only way popularity will win is if the multiplier is changed so it is equal or wins are only x2. Splatfest is still broken because of the players though. If people would pick the team they want to win and not the "winning team," then we would never have a problem. Cats v dogs was during the early days and art v science was really hard for people to predict, that is why it was so good. If people chose the way they did then, then the problem would be fixed.

People joining a team for the sake of winning instead of enjoying splatfest ruined it, pretty much.

 

[Dessgeega]

Lastly, especially for us higher leveled players, we are used to being able to carry our team and win after win in splatfests. I think part of this salt is that now, the teams are (usually) more equal and players will not win most of the time, unless they find a really good team. The idea of losing more than usual may just be part of one's bias, people take Splatfest more seriously, and emphasize and remember the losses.

This seems to be the crux of many complaints I'm hearing. People have to actually fight those around their skill level instead of having the entire spectrum of player level pop up in matches. I've yet to hear about any newbies being put against S ranks, no, it's only high level people groaning about actually having to put in effort.

 

[モモコ]

It actually is, a good part of it could be designing the game better:
Having weapons splat slower or have expectations of some lag and dealing with it properly, not making a game pace so fast it is only suited to LAN. Also the hit detection differences of main/sub/RM, cuz you know I actually depend on seeing the person get splatted by the whatever when I see it so they do not make unfair trade (having slower splat times could hep with this though) Also the weird lag of stuff passing though splash wall from the delay it has of going down. Still I do not get the thinking of the different hit detection and even with that sometimes you are still hitting people 5 times or bouncing of people with a normal roller when you run over them. So there is something wrong in the code that allows lag to bug the game like it does. I also seen a tower score for the opponents with no one on it because one of my teammates wailed it so I got on it solo, it went backwards for like 10 points with me alone on it.

Having rank saved on Nintendo end
Having squads not effect rank (people do these for money/fun/ find high skill or play with friends?)
If they changed how rank is saved, they should basically reset everyone to C-

This would help balance teams more, along with the matchmaking should a large group of players think "Oh all the kids pick A so I pick B) be more willing for mirror matches.I shouldn't be paired with people 1400-1600 if I am 1700 vs the other team average being 1600+
dealing with connection issues during match making better, maybe option to wait to pair up last played teammate? Anyways I should not get a connection error just because the game loses a packet or something, along with 1-2 hit shot splattershots when it should be 4 hits with my defense setup

the reason of the huge skill gaps of A/S/S+ is from flippin savesscum/and or squad carries. The game is simply more fun if 8 people are the same skill, not 4 true S+ vs a B rank carry, C rank savescum,A random A rank that was thrown in there because matchmaking could not find anyone, then me S.....(I am not sure if I am true S+ or not, lag does not help this =.=) No reason S and S+ should start at the same points since it takes a lot to break out of S..... compared to other ranks.

From my carry attempts this is how i see the general skill level of ranks:
All C (same) > gap B-,B, > gap> B+ >> gap >A-, A, >gap> A+, Gap>> S, >Gap >>>S+

 

[chubbypickle]

ok so i maxed out 3 of my squids 1 sand and 2 snowman

obviously this took time and all 3 was a completely different experience all 3 guys s ranked

1. i did the sand and about halfway through i found a decent team we won more than we lost and we played ourselves more than i played blue, and this i don't get sand was less popular and i played many sand team...........

2.snowman this went well until i hit 1700 then it was like no one knew how to play turf war luckily by the time i got to 1700 i didn't have much left to finish i actually had to switch my gun due to my team putting no ink down so i agree many ranked guys to head over to turf wars enough and forget the concept.

3. snowman this was a nightmare from the beggining at 1600 and i can't believe i maxed out but i was on a mission to do so, the entire way i didn't find a group to stay with i tried a group for 2 games then moved on ... over and over again.

thoughts

with snowmen being most popular i can't believe i never played my own team but on team sand i did many times
maybe put turf wars in the rotation of ranked because many s ranked guys definitely forgot how to play the game
maybe instead of giving us choice of who we pic take that away and allow them to choose to keep teams fair and get rid of popularity
for me this was by far the hardest splatfest ever so the changes are probably for the better but just frustrating at times

 

[モモコ]

1

ok so i maxed out 3 of my squids 1 sand and 2 snowman

obviously this took time and all 3 was a completely different experience all 3 guys s ranked

1. i did the sand and about halfway through i found a decent team we won more than we lost and we played ourselves more than i played blue, and this i don't get sand was less popular and i played many sand team...........

2.snowman this went well until i hit 1700 then it was like no one knew how to play turf war luckily by the time i got to 1700 i didn't have much left to finish i actually had to switch my gun due to my team putting no ink down so i agree many ranked guys to head over to turf wars enough and forget the concept.

3. snowman this was a nightmare from the beggining at 1600 and i can't believe i maxed out but i was on a mission to do so, the entire way i didn't find a group to stay with i tried a group for 2 games then moved on ... over and over again.

thoughts

with snowmen being most popular i can't believe i never played my own team but on team sand i did many times
maybe put turf wars in the rotation of ranked because many s ranked guys definitely forgot how to play the game
maybe instead of giving us choice of who we pic take that away and allow them to choose to keep teams fair and get rid of popularity
for me this was by far the hardest splatfest ever so the changes are probably for the better but just frustrating at times

ya i saw that too, i think that is another reflection that in general the more skilled players pick sandcastle. (great frequency of mirror in high ranks) but it still was not enough seeing gaps in the points that would favor sandcastle most of the time or being put on a squad with less points then me.

 

[dubious]

From my carry attempts this is how i see the general skill level of ranks:
All C (same) > gap B-,B, > gap> B+ >> gap >A-, A, >gap> A+, Gap>> S, >Gap >>>S+

As one who is in C+ (and had to start with every other C), as well as from experience in playing ranked, we have a difference from at least the C- people, and I'd go so far to say even C as well. That, or I'm really lazy and should play ranked more and actually go into B- (or a higher rank in general). Maybe someone else who doesn't play ranked much and/or is in that rank group could give more insight on that?

Either way, there were lopsided matches within 1100-1200 area too. There were times I would be on a team with an average of ~1100, then get paired against a team with, say, 990. Those matches almost always ended with the weaker end getting totally ruined. On the other hand, the opposite would happen too in being in the same average group but getting tossed against 1200+ players. The only plus side to the latter though is it was actually still feasible to win when paired with the right team (for the most part anyway), but the general point is reiterating the matching definitely has some issues.

The other thing... in that level group, I didn't have a single mirror match against Sandcastle players. I'm going to assume from this that while Snowman was most popular, the people who picked it are essentially at the low end of the ranks, or didn't have ranks and were forced to the 750-1000 point start. Mostly noting this since others pointed out higher ranks seemed to have Sandcastle mirrors and a lack of such for Snowman players.

 

[Flareth]

Either way, there were lopsided matches within 1100-1200 area too. There were times I would be on a team with an average of ~1100, then get paired against a team with, say, 990. Those matches almost always ended with the weaker end getting totally ruined. On the other hand, the opposite would happen too in being in the same average group but getting tossed against 1200+ players. The only plus side to the latter though is it was actually still feasible to win when paired with the right team (for the most part anyway), but the general point is reiterating the matching definitely has some issues.

This is along the lines of what I went through, though in the 1200 bracket and not as drastic numeric disparity. Occasionally we'd play against a team with 1190 power, then a couple games later face a team with 1290 power. Weaker teams we could handle, and stronger teams forced us to work for our victory.

Overall, it's sounding to me like the new system works well for the weaker/disadvantaged players, and less so for the better players. Splatfest communism, basically. So it's a worthwhile concept, it just needs tweaking to ensure that the top-tier squidfolk can still enjoy Splatfests. The idea rolling around in my head is to give out some bonus Sea Snail to players in the S(+) ranks, but I don't know how much of a consolation it would be.

 

[モモコ]

As one who is in C+ (and had to start with every other C), as well as from experience in playing ranked, we have a difference from at least the C- people, and I'd go so far to say even C as well. That, or I'm really lazy and should play ranked more and actually go into B- (or a higher rank in general). Maybe someone else who doesn't play ranked much and/or is in that rank group could give more insight on that?

Either way, there were lopsided matches within 1100-1200 area too. There were times I would be on a team with an average of ~1100, then get paired against a team with, say, 990. Those matches almost always ended with the weaker end getting totally ruined. On the other hand, the opposite would happen too in being in the same average group but getting tossed against 1200+ players. The only plus side to the latter though is it was actually still feasible to win when paired with the right team (for the most part anyway), but the general point is reiterating the matching definitely has some issues.

The other thing... in that level group, I didn't have a single mirror match against Sandcastle players. I'm going to assume from this that while Snowman was most popular, the people who picked it are essentially at the low end of the ranks, or didn't have ranks and were forced to the 750-1000 point start. Mostly noting this since others pointed out higher ranks seemed to have Sandcastle mirrors and a lack of such for Snowman players.

well that is my view going back to it, also if you are new to the game? you might not know how to spot alts and that might skew your view. example I had a VERY HARD match once in a C+ room before getting b- because there was an alt on the other team.

Interesting viewpoint regardless since I would not know what it was like that low..

This is along the lines of what I went through, though in the 1200 bracket and not as drastic numeric disparity. Occasionally we'd play against a team with 1190 power, then a couple games later face a team with 1290 power. Weaker teams we could handle, and stronger teams forced us to work for our victory.

Overall, it's sounding to me like the new system works well for the weaker/disadvantaged players, and less so for the better players. Splatfest communism, basically. So it's a worthwhile concept, it just needs tweaking to ensure that the top-tier squidfolk can still enjoy Splatfests. The idea rolling around in my head is to give out some bonus Sea Snail to players in the S(+) ranks, but I don't know how much of a consolation it would be.

as said I am fairly sure a lot of complaints comes from people being carried/scavescum to ranks they do not belong. I am sure if people stop worry about a flippin letter and have fun with the game it would be more enjoyable overall having 8 people same skill. Save rank on nintendo server, maybe even have seasons where they reset after like 2-4 months? so this way whatever people get put in, it would be from "current play" and not be rusty.

 

[Либра]

as said I am fairly sure a lot of complaints comes from people being carried/scavescum to ranks they do not belong.

Oh god, every time I played twin squads with a friend (we were equal ranks at all times mind you) I've seen so many C, B, etc. ranks being carried by an S-rank person. It was beyond aggravating because that explains how there's enough people in the A-spectrum who simply don't belong there. It'd be real nice if people stopped cheating their way up and started playing the game like intended. |D

 

[モモコ]

Oh god, every time I played twin squads with a friend (we were equal ranks at all times mind you) I've seen so many C, B, etc. ranks being carried by an S-rank person. It was beyond aggravating because that explains how there's enough people in the A-spectrum who simply don't belong there. It'd be real nice if people stopped cheating their way up and started playing the game like intended. |D

oh ya that reminds me, once I was in a quad with c- (clan name) vs some team i doono i thought it had a real c rank on it but the person was a? I have to find the video to be sure and idk what it was anymore =.= regardless it was way off.

It is strange though, I find carrying randoms much easier then squads, when someone asks to squad with me I play a few matches more as observer and give them tips on improving. (though it may not seem like it watching my recordings, I just put an extra focus on awareness then normal) I think it is a good use of using my awareness to help people, since for the most part I am a support player more then going all out splatting people, so I may be a bit more team dependent then some heree and doing things just to help the team more, then myself.

back to the point though, your post supports the idea how we really need rank save on nintendo side, squads not effect rank, and rank reset. this splatfest really should see the effects of being in squads or leagues way outside someone's skill. it is not fun to completely stomp someone, it is not fun being splatted all the time and it is not fun doing 1 v4 so much (big problem in NA huge pop gaps, airplanes was a real nightmare)

 

[Crystal C]

A while back I read a thread about what Nintendo can do to fix North American splatfests. I am now convinced that they can do nothing to prevent the massively lopsided games. I am on team snowman because I thought the new update would help matchmaking. It didn't

In total, I had a net win of 1 battle, and only because I switched to the kelp charger. Even with a splatfest power starting at 1600 my teams were almost always awful. The only reason I started winning was because I found a team that went 6-0. I also used my alt to check team sand around 1600 points, and nearly every battle was sand v sand. This means people are only choosing the team they think will have fewer kids, so it doesn't matter which team would have a better/worse player base, one team is always filled with A through S+ players.

That's wierd I was on team sandcastle and I thought that we were the ones getting destroyed. Allot of my matches
We're against people who had a higher splatfest power and I started at 1600. Most of the time we would have like a 50/50 chance of winning until like my last 8 matches where we won the majority of them.

 

[chubbypickle]

at the end of the day splatfest is about finding a team that suits your game play and stick together and hopefully the skilled players next time are more spread out the majority were on team sand this time i maxed out three characters so i'm pretty positive on this one.

 

[MeTaGross]

at the end of the day splatfest is about finding a team that suits your game play and stick together and hopefully the skilled players next time are more spread out the majority were on team sand this time i maxed out three characters so i'm pretty positive on this one.

The only problem is, splatfest has the most internet problems in the game. I started with the aerospray mg for the first time in months thinking it would be easier, but I lost at least 8 matches with maybe 2 wins. I finally got a team, won about 6 battles and was disconnected right before it started in the lobby. It is impossible to find a good team, especially when everybody leaves at the end.

 

[MeTaGross]

I forgot, they needed to change the win multiplier, the main reason there is a problem! If wins and popularity were equal or near equal then we would never have had this problem in the first place.