No On-Screen Map

[Pusha]

For anyone who's played shooter's a lot, especially in a competitive setting, you should know how important it is for map awareness. Having to look down at the game pad is pretty hindering since you have to take your eyes off the main screen. With an on screen map you can always be watching it in your peripheral vision.

It's a shame there isn't an on screen map in the game, maybe eventually one could get patched in?

 

[Gsnap]

But in other shooters, the on screen map only shows a portion of the map because you only need to know who's within a certain distance of you.

With Splatoon you need to be aware of the entire map, so putting the entire map on screen might take up too much space.

Also, the designers have probably considered this. There is a distinct risk/reward factor when viewing the map in Splatoon. That might actually be the point.

I'm not gonna say I'm against it, but I also don't really see the need for it.

 

[Draayder]

I think if you could see the map all the time it'd make it much easier to figure out where your opponents are since you can see the ink changing, so I think the game pad works well for this since you have to watch the map for a few seconds to see where people might be and give up seeing what's happening right in front of you.

 

[Pusha]

But in other shooters, the on screen map only shows a portion of the map because you only need to know who's within a certain distance of you.

With Splatoon you need to be aware of the entire map, so putting the entire map on screen might take up too much space.

That's not true that you only need to know who's within a certain distance of you. In any shooter you need to have a good idea of where the enemy team is anywhere on the map. And even a limited-area-mini-map gives you information about that. Im not saying to replace the gamepad map, just to add an on screen one.

 

[Ranias]

I like on-screen maps for map awareness as well. I think it'll just take some getting used to to look downwards every now and then, not too big of a deal.

 

[Gsnap]

That's not true that you only need to know who's within a certain distance of you. In any shooter you need to have a good idea of where the enemy team is anywhere on the map. And even a limited-area-mini-map gives you information about that. Im not saying to replace the gamepad map, just to add an on screen one.

Maybe so. But it is true that those maps will only show a small portion of the map.

So which are you suggesting? A small portion of the map on screen and the full map on the gamepad? Or the full map on both screens? In the first scenario, well I imagine that will end up being completely useless. In a game like Splatoon, having a map that only shows you a small portion of what's going on within a few feet of you is useless. It's right in front of your eyes, so you don't need to see it on the map. And if it's the second scenario, then like I said, the map will probably be too big and take up too much of the screen.

I understand where you're coming from, though. It's natural to question design ideas that deviate from the norm. But that doesn't mean that those ideas are immediately bad. I think it's a good design decision, personally.

 

[Pusha]

Maybe so. But it is true that those maps will only show a small portion of the map.

So which are you suggesting? A small portion of the map on screen and the full map on the gamepad? Or the full map on both screens? In the first scenario, well I imagine that will end up being completely useless. In a game like Splatoon, having a map that only shows you a small portion of what's going on within a few feet of you is useless. It's right in front of your eyes, so you don't need to see it on the map. And if it's the second scenario, then like I said, the map will probably be too big and take up too much of the screen.

I understand where you're coming from, though. It's natural to question design ideas that deviate from the norm. But that doesn't mean that those ideas are immediately bad. I think it's a good design decision, personally.

Both scenarios would be fine. If it's a full map then it would have to be sized accordingly and if that can't be done then thats fine. A small map doesn't only show "a few feet in front of you". generally you are shown in the center of the mini map and you can see quite a decent range around you, more than enough to give you a good sense of awareness.

Here is an example:

If you're wondering, thats roughly a third of the whole map, and takes up very little on-screen space

Edit: Also, if you think mini maps are useless i question your shooter experience.

 

[Gsnap]

Yeah, that's fine and all.

But like I said, the design of the Splatoon deviates from the norm, so it's natural that people would be opposed to that. But the developers probably did that for a reason. So we'll see how it plays out once we have the game.

 

[Pusha]

Yeah, that's fine and all.

But like I said, the design of the Splatoon deviates from the norm, so it's natural that people would be opposed to that. But the developers probably did that for a reason. So we'll see how it plays out once we have the game.

I don't know that the developers did it for any other reason other than the fact that they wanted to integrate super jumps and figured they only needed 1 map. The lack of mini map was probably the first thing i noticed in the testfire and especially with the lack of voice chat online, I think the lack of a mini map will be hindering to the online experience, and skill gap.

 

[Gsnap]

I don't know that the developers did it for any other reason other than the fact that they wanted to integrate super jumps and figured they only needed 1 map. The lack of mini map was probably the first thing i noticed in the testfire and especially with the lack of voice chat online, I think the lack of a mini map will be hindering to the online experience, and skill gap.

Eh. I disagree. The map in Splatoon gives you a ton of information. It's a vital part of the game, for both super jumps and seeing ink coverage. So that gives it a high value. By taking it off the screen, you take that value and add risk to it. This then increases the reward of proper map usage. So the player needs to learn when the risk is worth it and when it's not. That's legitimate design that tests the players decision making skills. Having a map on screen takes away from that, and it may not be the right decision.

Like I said, we'll see how it all plays out when the full game comes out. But for now, let's just allow Splatoon to be unique. If it doesn't work out, then things can be re-evaluated in the future.

 

[GamingWarthog]

I prefer the Gamepad map, less clutter on the main screen. Plus it gives you a lot more information, you can use the map to detect a backdoor while your entire team is nowhere near that part of the map. Since the entire map is the objective seeing where everything is needs to have some risk.

 

[Captain Norris]

but in addition to the onscreen map. you gotta have space to show where each of your teammates are, including their names and such. And I asume you will have to have the d-pad have the super jumps synced with it as well.

 

[Zoot]

If you want an idea of what an on-screen map would look like, the Aerospray-MG showcase video is a good example (starting at 1:05):

I think the map is just too big and detailed to fit comfortably on the screen. I agree it might be helpful if they found an elegant way to fit it in there, but it's really not a big deal.

 

[Pivi]

The entire game pad is a map, the amount of time it takes to look at an onscreen map can just as easily be used to check the gamepad. Plus you can't see your enemies unless they walk in your ink, even moreso, when you super jump, you get a very clear shot of the entire field where you can spot enemies .On top of this, the basic gameplay of splatoon naturally draws you to whatever direction you see a color that isn't yours, you don't need a minimap to see that area is covered with the other team's ink.

Splatoon =/= other shooters.

 

[Draayder]

TF2 gets away just fine without a mini-map, even at a competitive level. It's also got more comparable level design compared to a lot of shooters I think.

 

[Yaezakura]

Spending any meaningful amount of time looking at a minimap for icons is no different than looking away from the screen entirely. We can only really focus on one thing at a time, meaning looking at a minimap is taking your focus off the portion of the screen used for displaying the action.

 

[Nabbit]

I think the risk would be higher in this game if you went to look at the map even for a split second given how you have to be more aware of your surroundings then other fps games.

 

[Pusha]

I think people are missing the point. I am aware that there is a map on the gamepad and that it's a perfectly good map. What I'm saying is that it takes more time and takes your eyes away from the screen to look down at the map than it does in other shooters with on screen maps. In those shooters you can view the map in your peripheral vision very easily. For anyone who thinks glancing at mini map takes a significant amount of time, you probably haven't played many (or any) shooters. Gathering information from your mini map is done simultaneously while playing the game and doesn't take more than a very small fraction of a second.

For example, I can be shooting at someone in front of me while seeing shots on the mini map behind me. Get the kill, turn, get the second kill.

 

[Pusha]

TF2 gets away just fine without a mini-map, even at a competitive level. It's also got more comparable level design compared to a lot of shooters I think.

TF2 is a much more slowly paced shooter. Also within, competitive maps aren't as important because there is team communication, but with splatoon we're talking about a game that doesn't have voice chat. And we're talking about a game where you can hide in ink and super jump behind people. So an on-screen mini map seems more necessary to me for splatoon than it would for other shooters.

 

[Gis4Gamer]

For example, I can be shooting at someone in front of me while seeing shots on the mini map behind me. Get the kill, turn, get the second kill.

Here is the same example from the 2nd squid's perspective: You are using your roller and you see a player shooting your teammate with his back to you. You roll towards him expecting to kill him, but after he killed your teammate he quickly turned around and killed you.

If they added a map on the screen then it would hinder the stealth and sunrise tactics in the game, escpecially the rollers. Rollers won't be able to get kills because the enemy will see their big paint trail on the map. Any roller painting ink on the ground might as well have a sign over their head saying "come get me! I can't fight back from a distance!" I know what you mean by map awareness, but in other shooters you don't have to worry about the enemy knowing where you are unless you shoot, however in Splatoon whenever you put down ink, which is almost all the time, the enemy will know where you are.

Although you have the same advantage, the game will become about killing the other players because you want to stop them from laying down ink. The mindset will go from "ink as much territory as possible and if you find an enemy, kill them," to "head toward the enemy players and kill them, then ink as much territory as possible." The game will become kill first, ink territory second. The only use for the map is to super jump, which helps you get back to inking faster, and locating enemies. The super jump is only used ever so often, so you don't have to see the map constantly, and locating enemies isn't the priority of the game so the developers made it so you don't see the map constantly, because that will encourage killing enemies and not inking territory. There is only one benefit to putting the map on the TV and that is to help you locate enemies and kill them, but that is not the priority of the game. The priority is to ink territory and the developers designed it such that it encourages that mindset and hinders the other.

TL;DR: Putting a map on the screen will encourage killing instead of inking territory, which is not the direction Nintendo wanted to go with this game. It will also hinder most of the stealth and sunrise tactics in the game, escpecially for the rollers.