• Welcome to SquidBoards, the largest forum dedicated to Splatoon! Over 25,000 Splatoon fans from around the world have come to discuss this fantastic game with over 250,000 posts!

    Start on your journey in the Splatoon community!

No On-Screen Map

Hope

Inkling Cadet
Joined
May 9, 2015
Messages
296
NNID
Agrexis
It shouldn't be that bad to glance while moving around the map, in fact it will probably be one of the things that separates the good and bad players. Being able to go from looking at the map to killing an enemy in a 1v1 in a split second will be one of those awareness skills you'll want to learn. Anyways, coming from the experience of using item spy on the gamepad while playing Mario Kart 8 (which is a game that destroys you for making any mistake), I'd say it is totally feasible
 

Pusha

Inkling Cadet
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
155
Here is the same example from the 2nd squid's perspective: You are using your roller and you see a player shooting your teammate with his back to you. You roll towards him expecting to kill him, but after he killed your teammate he quickly turned around and killed you.

If they added a map on the screen then it would hinder the stealth and sunrise tactics in the game, escpecially the rollers. Rollers won't be able to get kills because the enemy will see their big paint trail on the map. Any roller painting ink on the ground might as well have a sign over their head saying "come get me! I can't fight back from a distance!" I know what you mean by map awareness, but in other shooters you don't have to worry about the enemy knowing where you are unless you shoot, however in Splatoon whenever you put down ink, which is almost all the time, the enemy will know where you are.

Although you have the same advantage, the game will become about killing the other players because you want to stop them from laying down ink. The mindset will go from "ink as much territory as possible and if you find an enemy, kill them," to "head toward the enemy players and kill them, then ink as much territory as possible." The game will become kill first, ink territory second. The only use for the map is to super jump, which helps you get back to inking faster, and locating enemies. The super jump is only used ever so often, so you don't have to see the map constantly, and locating enemies isn't the priority of the game so the developers made it so you don't see the map constantly, because that will encourage killing enemies and not inking territory. There is only one benefit to putting the map on the TV and that is to help you locate enemies and kill them, but that is not the priority of the game. The priority is to ink territory and the developers designed it such that it encourages that mindset and hinders the other.

TL;DR: Putting a map on the screen will encourage killing instead of inking territory, which is not the direction Nintendo wanted to go with this game. It will also hinder most of the stealth and sunrise tactics in the game, escpecially for the rollers.
If you're using a roller you should already know that you have no range and that your priority should be covering ground not getting kills. If you get turned on by someone and killed then its your fault for trying to chase someone down from too far. Adding a map doesn't change the objective of the game from covering ground to killing people. All that matters is the win, and killing people, not dying and covering ground all contribute to that. There are plenty of objective gametypes in shooters and in none of them is it "Go for the objective and if you happen to see someone kill them" as you suggest. Thats not how shooters work. You kill the enemy team so that it becomes easier to go for the objective. If 3 or 4 of the enemies are respawning then your team gets to cover a bunch of ground for free. Just because you don't win based on kills doesn't mean killing isn't important, and just because you add a map to main screen doesn't mean it will shift the focus of the game.

It's not removing stealth either, it's just making it easier to be aware of your surroundings without taken your eyes off the screen. The other player still needs to react quickly enough to turn around and hit their shots. You shouldn't always get a free kill just for being behind someone

Also, no you don't only see people when they shoot in other shooters. In halo for example, the radar (not a full map but serves the same purpose) shows enemy movements within a radius.
 

WaifuRaccoonBL

Inkling Fleet Admiral
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
601
Location
Wuhu Island
Splatoon isn't too hectic of a game, so having to look down at the map isn't too bad. The maps are relatively small, so they are easier to memorize. Most people will probably be looking at it to see what needs to be inked and where their teammates are.

Also, like previously stated, on-screen map would cause clutter.
 

Pusha

Inkling Cadet
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
155
Splatoon isn't too hectic of a game, so having to look down at the map isn't too bad. The maps are relatively small, so they are easier to memorize. Most people will probably be looking at it to see what needs to be inked and where their teammates are.

Also, like previously stated, on-screen map would cause clutter.
Really you don't find it hectic? I found it very fast paced with super quick movement and kill times. On larger maps you might find yourself alone for a while but as players get better and especially within the competitive community, that won't happen often. Also an on-screen map really doesn't cause clutter, They're used in countless, countless games and really don;t affect visibility. Not even just in shooters too, in mobas like DOTA 2 or Smite or LoL they're also used.
 

Gis4Gamer

Inkster Jr.
Joined
May 9, 2015
Messages
22
NNID
Gis4Gamer
If you're using a roller you should already know that you have no range and that your priority should be covering ground not getting kills. If you get turned on by someone and killed then its your fault for trying to chase someone down from too far. Adding a map doesn't change the objective of the game from covering ground to killing people. All that matters is the win, and killing people, not dying and covering ground all contribute to that. There are plenty of objective gametypes in shooters and in none of them is it "Go for the objective and if you happen to see someone kill them" as you suggest. Thats not how shooters work. You kill the enemy team so that it becomes easier to go for the objective. If 3 or 4 of the enemies are respawning then your team gets to cover a bunch of ground for free. Just because you don't win based on kills doesn't mean killing isn't important, and just because you add a map to main screen doesn't mean it will shift the focus of the game.

It's not removing stealth either, it's just making it easier to be aware of your surroundings without taken your eyes off the screen. The other player still needs to react quickly enough to turn around and hit their shots. You shouldn't always get a free kill just for being behind someone

Also, no you don't only see people when they shoot in other shooters. In halo for example, the radar (not a full map but serves the same purpose) shows enemy movements within a radius.
You're right, maybe it won't cause a dramatic change in way people play, but there is still no need to add a mini map. The only benefit for adding a mini map is so you can tell where the enemy is based on the ink changing color. If the mini map were added it would hinder the rollers because they aren't good at combat. Players would head after rollers because they are easy to kill and they cover a lot of ink. They are easy to tell apart from the other enemies so hunting them down is easy. The roller's strength comes from laying down large amount of ink in a short time. The best strategy for the roller is to avoid combat and cover as much area as possible. With the mini map players will easily be able to identify enemy rollers and head after them. Rollers won't be able to avoid combat because the enemy will constantly attacking them to try and stop them.

There are two main strategies that are used in Splatoon. One is killing the enemy so that you can safely ink territory while they respawn and then there is inking territory while the enemy is fighting your teammates. There are some players that prefer to ink territory and avoid confrontations while their teammates fight the enemies. If the mini map was added it will hinder that play style because the enemy will know that they are inking territory in a forgotten corner. Now the players that prefer to ink territory over fighting have to fight in order to ink territory. They will be forced to play the same play style as the other players. It will emphasis killing in order to ink territory over inking territory while avoiding combat.

The mini map in Splatoon has more information than in other shooters. In other shooters you can tell where the enemy is, but in Splatoon not only do you know there location, but also who your fighting. Based on the way the ink is being covered you can determine who they are based on the weapon they have before you even fight them. At the beginning you know the weapons of the enemy team, but with the mini map you can tell which player from the enemy team is coming your way. You can see what weapon they have based on the way the ink is being covered. You can easily tell the difference between a splat charger's shot and a roller's ink spread. You know how to fight them before you even see them. This will make it more difficult for some weapons to fight back if the enemy already knows how to beat them. Rollers can't fight unless they catch the enemy by surprise, but if the enemy not only knows where they are but what weapon they are using, then there is no way a rollers can get a single kill.

You keep saying map awareness, but that doesn't mean you need to have a bird's eye view the entire time to be aware of what is going on. Just because you can't see what is happening behind you doesn't put you at a disadvantage. You can already have a pretty good understanding of what is going on by looking around. While super jumping you can get a huge amount of information, such as enemy locations, ink coverage, and openings. There is already tons of information you can gather by just looking. If you see your team's ink entering into a corridor and the other team's ink entering into the other end then you know that an enemy might be in there. Even if they aren't you can still cover the ink that is there so there is no reason not to. I know it would be nice to see if a player is coming up from behind you, but know that there are players who like to sneak up on enemy players too. Just because it would benefit you and your play style doesn't mean it won't hinder other people's play style. Stealth is something that I greatly enjoy and adding a mini map would allow the enemy to see me coming before I even have a chance to kill them. Being able to slip past opponents and start covering their base in your ink is something I like to do, but I won't be able to do it because the enemy will see me try to slip past and stop me.
 

WaifuRaccoonBL

Inkling Fleet Admiral
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
601
Location
Wuhu Island
Really you don't find it hectic? I found it very fast paced with super quick movement and kill times. On larger maps you might find yourself alone for a while but as players get better and especially within the competitive community, that won't happen often. Also an on-screen map really doesn't cause clutter, They're used in countless, countless games and really don;t affect visibility. Not even just in shooters too, in mobas like DOTA 2 or Smite or LoL they're also used.
Ok, let me rephrase, you don't have to worry as much about being killed like in most shooters. Mainly because no one is actively looking for you. So if you can find a spot they won't try to ink, you can easily have a chance to look at the game pad.

And for how much detail the map would need, it would cause a decent amount of clutter. You also have to remember the D-pad signal things are at the bottom left corner, so in addition to that being on the screen, it would too.

You will also notice the d-pad signal thing is also transparent. That is to have it so there isn't a blind spot in your camera. The on-screen map wouldn't unfortunately add a blind spot into the game. Something that actually matters in this game.
 

Lyn

Squid Savior From the Future
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2015
Messages
2,277
I don't think it's too much of an issue. Looking down doesn't take too much time but I would definitely have preferred an on-screen map, since split-screen doesn't exist sadly. :(
 

ndayadn

yeah
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
235
Location
MI
NNID
Seabass
My theory is that they locked themselves into the gamepad as the main controller and every design choice stems from that.

So, I do believe it was a design choice not to have an onscreen map. I think it could be argued that it is not a great choice though, as the only thing onscreen map would be bad for is field of view (fixed by having an appropriate opacity and size). Devs likely decided that it is a sort of risk/reward system to have the map on the gamepad and it would not provide a fair advantage to have it onscreen as there ARE advantages to it being there, mainly in seeing ink coverage and knowing how to react better. (post #25, Gis4Gamer's 1st and 3rd paragraphs)
 

Kosaki

Pro Squid
Joined
May 30, 2014
Messages
114
Location
France
NNID
Kosaki-0
I also think it is a design choice.
The map is quite strong in Splatoon. Enemies are never shown on it, but with the map you can know where they are almost constantly by seeing where their ink is and where their ink is being spread, also consider that they can't possibly be on your team's ink color. The game relies a lot on individual awareness, a mini map on the main screen would have been quite OP since it's that easy to spot an opponent approching for a smart player, it would also pretty much ruin any form of stealth approach.
Taking your guard off to watch the map is how it is being balanced. I think it's a decent choice they have made, I'd also add that it was necessary.
Plus, you can teleport yourself near a ally to an advantaging location after that glimpse on your Gamepad.

Action is very confined in Splatoon, so you'll know when an enemy is nearby, you can also clearly see ink bullets flying all around. We have to try our best preventing blind spots.

If you're having a really easy time covering an area, then you should know another area is probably in need of your attention since the action is inevitably somewhere else. Squid form is fast and the maps not really big, so you can react quick enough to that kind of situation. Teleport yourself otherwise.

Also, you can know who has the upper hand on turf by looking at the squids icons on the top of the screen. The team with the bigger squids is currently winning.

What really convinced me for good about this is that the Wii U Pro Controller is not supported, while you can still play dual-stick style with the Gamepad.
Pro Controller support would have implied a map being shown on the HUD. They could have made a full map you can toggle on the main screen, but the dev team probably wants to promote the use of the Gamepad screen instead, so they cut the option.
 
Last edited:

StormPhrax

Full Squid
Joined
May 17, 2015
Messages
38
Location
Torquay, United Kingdom
NNID
joelsmart01
I don't think on-screen mini maps should be a thing, they'd just drain the uncertainty from turf war, by letting you know what ares your enemies are taking. Therefore, i would say it is a deliberate design choice bythe devs, and one i agree with.
 

ndayadn

yeah
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
235
Location
MI
NNID
Seabass
Also, you can know who has the upper hand on turf by looking at the squids icons on the top of the screen. The team with the bigger squids is currently winning.
I agree with the entirety of your post, but a small nitpick. This is just how the icons are, it is not an indicator of who is winning. The further from the center of the screen, the larger the squid.
 

Pusha

Inkling Cadet
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
155
You're right, maybe it won't cause a dramatic change in way people play, but there is still no need to add a mini map. The only benefit for adding a mini map is so you can tell where the enemy is based on the ink changing color. If the mini map were added it would hinder the rollers because they aren't good at combat. Players would head after rollers because they are easy to kill and they cover a lot of ink. They are easy to tell apart from the other enemies so hunting them down is easy. The roller's strength comes from laying down large amount of ink in a short time. The best strategy for the roller is to avoid combat and cover as much area as possible. With the mini map players will easily be able to identify enemy rollers and head after them. Rollers won't be able to avoid combat because the enemy will constantly attacking them to try and stop them.

There are two main strategies that are used in Splatoon. One is killing the enemy so that you can safely ink territory while they respawn and then there is inking territory while the enemy is fighting your teammates. There are some players that prefer to ink territory and avoid confrontations while their teammates fight the enemies. If the mini map was added it will hinder that play style because the enemy will know that they are inking territory in a forgotten corner. Now the players that prefer to ink territory over fighting have to fight in order to ink territory. They will be forced to play the same play style as the other players. It will emphasis killing in order to ink territory over inking territory while avoiding combat.

The mini map in Splatoon has more information than in other shooters. In other shooters you can tell where the enemy is, but in Splatoon not only do you know there location, but also who your fighting. Based on the way the ink is being covered you can determine who they are based on the weapon they have before you even fight them. At the beginning you know the weapons of the enemy team, but with the mini map you can tell which player from the enemy team is coming your way. You can see what weapon they have based on the way the ink is being covered. You can easily tell the difference between a splat charger's shot and a roller's ink spread. You know how to fight them before you even see them. This will make it more difficult for some weapons to fight back if the enemy already knows how to beat them. Rollers can't fight unless they catch the enemy by surprise, but if the enemy not only knows where they are but what weapon they are using, then there is no way a rollers can get a single kill.

You keep saying map awareness, but that doesn't mean you need to have a bird's eye view the entire time to be aware of what is going on. Just because you can't see what is happening behind you doesn't put you at a disadvantage. You can already have a pretty good understanding of what is going on by looking around. While super jumping you can get a huge amount of information, such as enemy locations, ink coverage, and openings. There is already tons of information you can gather by just looking. If you see your team's ink entering into a corridor and the other team's ink entering into the other end then you know that an enemy might be in there. Even if they aren't you can still cover the ink that is there so there is no reason not to. I know it would be nice to see if a player is coming up from behind you, but know that there are players who like to sneak up on enemy players too. Just because it would benefit you and your play style doesn't mean it won't hinder other people's play style. Stealth is something that I greatly enjoy and adding a mini map would allow the enemy to see me coming before I even have a chance to kill them. Being able to slip past opponents and start covering their base in your ink is something I like to do, but I won't be able to do it because the enemy will see me try to slip past and stop me.
I wouldn't say it hinders my playstyle, i just think that combined with a lack of voice chat, it doesn't lend well to competitive play. If i could be communicating with my teammates consistently then its not a huge deal, so in tournaments its fine, but for online everyday use its not the best. Don't say Team Speak or skype because not everyone is going to want to organize a team on skype before playing every time and there's just no easy way of organizing a party on skype or TS once you match a game. Even a reduced mini map that only shows enemy shots could be beneficial (no paint on map). Also, again speaking of competitive (yes there is a reason i posted this thread here and not in multiplayer discussion), players who decide to not worry about kills at all and just cover turf will begin to get trampled by better teams. I can't predict how the meta will evolve but i do know that a team who is able to consistently out-slay another will win pretty much any gametype. I'm confident that eventually that will become the norm. The longer the other team is on respawn the easier it is to capture objectives and cover ground. Competitive splatoon (if it ever gets anywhere, lets hope) is going to look much different than the testfire has looked. You won't be superjumping onto the map just anywhere, you'll be communicating with your team constantly and yes, if you don't go for kills (meaning if you entirely ignore the other team) you will lose. Playing a shooter competitively is about knowing when to push, when to defend, when to go for the kills, when to ignore and go for the objective.

On-screen map = better competitive online experience
No On-screen map = fun online experience but a bit of a smaller skill gap and a bit more unfortunate randomness
 

Kosaki

Pro Squid
Joined
May 30, 2014
Messages
114
Location
France
NNID
Kosaki-0
I agree with the entirety of your post, but a small nitpick. This is just how the icons are, it is not an indicator of who is winning. The further from the center of the screen, the larger the squid.
That section of the HUD still shows who has the current lead though, that was my point.
(The green squids actually grow bigger as you can see)
The VS icon shifts left or right according to who has the more turf in real time. It's even indicating "Danger" to the losing team.
Without this, I think the game would have left the players with too much uncertainty on the situation of the game, and that would force players to take a look on the Gamepad map only to get a little overview.
It seems the VS icon doesn't shift at all when scores are close enough, so we still get that thrill for the final results for close games, which is great.

Maybe I misinterpreted that part of the HUD though, but I don't see what it would indicate otherwise.

@Pusha : I disagree with your statement.
Only considering what we are now dealing with, what makes a good competitive experience on this aspect is how the game is handled to give enough informations to the players.
Showing too much would hurt the game in a manner that it limits options or ease players' efforts in playing smart and good, then it would lessen the competitive potential of the game.

Having a mini map that shows someone shooting in any regular shooter game is a legitimate tool, since otherwise you can only rely on sound when an enemy is hidden, which is a big issue when several enemies are shooting around out of your sight, and since the game is supposed to be flowing well, developers put that in the HUD.

In Splatoon you have a quite some hints to know where non visible opponents are :
  • Ink bullets flying being very visible
  • Areas painted in their color, and they can't be on your ink color
  • Looking at the Gamepad map, considering the previous point
I consider the first two points are already most of time quite enough given informations. The map is eventually reserved for times when the action is being slow down on your part, which I expect to be rarely the case given a certain level.
I'll add that maps are quite small in Splatoon, action is condensed, and you'll frequently run into players.
You also know when players got splattered.

A mini map with ink spread being showed would be OP, denying any form of stealth approach and makes it too easy to localize people like I said earlier.
Only showing ink shots on it would also be as OP, since you have to constantly shoot ink, for combat, movement or the objective.
Sure it would have been confortable but it would have cost some depth to the game.

And unfortunate randomness is just an excuse for players that neglected their blind spots. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Last edited:

Nukichuu

Inkling Cadet
Joined
May 8, 2015
Messages
279
NNID
Nukikero
Why are we comparing Splatoon with "normal" shooters again?

Im totally fine with the Map on the Gamepad. And yes it would be way too easy to see where the enemys are
 

Kosaki

Pro Squid
Joined
May 30, 2014
Messages
114
Location
France
NNID
Kosaki-0
@Nukichuu
If you are referring to my post, I'm doing a comparison to state why traditional shooters have a mini map, why Splatoon hasn't and why it's a legitimate design choice for both.
 

ndayadn

yeah
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
235
Location
MI
NNID
Seabass
Thanks. I had only known about the Vs. bar from before the Testfire and review copies so it wasn't as obvious. Nice that the "mystery" aspect is still there for close games, and alerts you when there is a noticeable lead.
 

Gis4Gamer

Inkster Jr.
Joined
May 9, 2015
Messages
22
NNID
Gis4Gamer
I wouldn't say it hinders my playstyle, i just think that combined with a lack of voice chat, it doesn't lend well to competitive play. If i could be communicating with my teammates consistently then its not a huge deal, so in tournaments its fine, but for online everyday use its not the best. Don't say Team Speak or skype because not everyone is going to want to organize a team on skype before playing every time and there's just no easy way of organizing a party on skype or TS once you match a game. Even a reduced mini map that only shows enemy shots could be beneficial (no paint on map). Also, again speaking of competitive (yes there is a reason i posted this thread here and not in multiplayer discussion), players who decide to not worry about kills at all and just cover turf will begin to get trampled by better teams. I can't predict how the meta will evolve but i do know that a team who is able to consistently out-slay another will win pretty much any gametype. I'm confident that eventually that will become the norm. The longer the other team is on respawn the easier it is to capture objectives and cover ground. Competitive splatoon (if it ever gets anywhere, lets hope) is going to look much different than the testfire has looked. You won't be superjumping onto the map just anywhere, you'll be communicating with your team constantly and yes, if you don't go for kills (meaning if you entirely ignore the other team) you will lose. Playing a shooter competitively is about knowing when to push, when to defend, when to go for the kills, when to ignore and go for the objective.

On-screen map = better competitive online experience
No On-screen map = fun online experience but a bit of a smaller skill gap and a bit more unfortunate randomness
I'm not saying the entire team should focus solely on covering turf, but have at least one of them focus mainly on covering turf and the rest focus on engaging the enemy team over the more contested areas. In turf wars, one player should be actively going for the areas players don't often frequent, the side paths and such, while their teammates attack the enemy players and fight for the center. In splash zones, one player (or more) should focus on capturing the zone while their teammates should focus on defending it. Once captured, he should focus on covering any ink that lands in zone while his teammates neutralize any threats. Of course these roles aren't set in stone. If the player has too he can freely change roles and focus on defense and let another player take care of the zone. Personally I don't see any use the minimap will bring in splash zone, since there aren't many options for the enemy to choose to approach from. There are usually three or four routes they can come from. Even in testfire I have no problem knowing where the enemy could be because they can only swim through their own ink. Wherever your ink is, the enemy isn't there. If you look for the enemies ink then you will most likely find an enemy there. I have never had a game where I got attacked from behind because I always kept my back to my own ink. I also don't see how there would be a smaller skill gap because there is no minimap. Without the map you are forced to pay attention to your surroundings and seeing the bigger picture without the aid of a little map in the corner. Besides locating enemy players, I don't see much use the minimap can have that simple observation can make up. If there are other ways the minimap can help the player then please tell me. I'm not going to discuss whether voice chat is needed or not because that isn't the topic that is being discussed here.
 

Pusha

Inkling Cadet
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
155
@Pusha : I disagree with your statement.
Only considering what we are now dealing with, what makes a good competitive experience on this aspect is how the game is handled to give enough informations to the players.
Showing too much would hurt the game in a manner that it limits options or ease players' efforts in playing smart and good, then it would lessen the competitive potential of the game.

Having a mini map that shows someone shooting in any regular shooter game is a legitimate tool, since otherwise you can only rely on sound when an enemy is hidden, which is a big issue when several enemies are shooting around out of your sight, and since the game is supposed to be flowing well, developers put that in the HUD.

In Splatoon you have a quite some hints to know where non visible opponents are :
  • Ink bullets flying being very visible
  • Areas painted in their color, and they can't be on your ink color
  • Looking at the Gamepad map, considering the previous point
I consider the first two points are already most of time quite enough given informations. The map is eventually reserved for times when the action is being slow down on your part, which I expect to be rarely the case given a certain level.
I'll add that maps are quite small in Splatoon, action is condensed, and you'll frequently run into players.
You also know when players got splattered.

A mini map with ink spread being showed would be OP, denying any form of stealth approach and makes it too easy to localize people like I said earlier.
Only showing ink shots on it would also be as OP, since you have to constantly shoot ink, for combat, movement or the objective.
Sure it would have been confortable but it would have cost some depth to the game.

And unfortunate randomness is just an excuse for players that neglected their blind spots. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No, what makes any game competitive is a skill gap. No skill gap = No competitive game. Anything that increases that gap is beneficial for competitive and anything that decreases the gap is detrimental to competitive. Giving people some form of mini-map first of all implies everyone has the same map, so it doesn't somehow create unfair situations out of the blue. It also doesn't remove stealth from the game, you can still hide in ink, you can still approach from behind, but it makes it appropriately more difficult.
If you are behind someone and you don't get a kill it is your fault and your fault alone. If they turn and get a kill on you, you screwed up and whether they turned because of a map or team communication or because their magic 8 ball told them too doesn't matter. What mini-maps help with are players camping or hiding or flanking. It makes it more difficult to do those things, which is good because it increases skill gap. It doesn't eliminate playing "smart and good" as you call it, it just makes you also have to have gunskill to earn your kills.

Either a motion sensor within a radius, a mini map with ink or a mini map with shots registering would all add a simple extra layer to the game that would be beneficial to competitive play.

Again, i reiterate, it is largely due to the lack of voice chat that this problem might arise. No opportunity to give callouts online is silly and sucks for competitive because it greatly reduces your ability for map awareness. In other games the mini-map can fill part of the void, but not in splatoon.

And no, unfortunate randomness is another term for "skill gap decreasing".

Playing with "stealth" is just a way for bad players to avoid direct gun fights ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

PHIL Master 227

Inkling
Joined
May 8, 2015
Messages
11
NNID
PHILMaster227
When I was playing the global test fire, I found myself holding the gamepad right below my TV. That way I could easily check the map without having to look away from the TV. I know some people may just want to kick back while playing, but if you want a good competitive game experience, I recommend it.
 

Kosaki

Pro Squid
Joined
May 30, 2014
Messages
114
Location
France
NNID
Kosaki-0
@Pusha
To be honest, I find it quite bothersome to highlight and answer to every points of your statement, especially since I have to repeat myself. But I'm enclined to do it to clear out my point of view.

No, what makes any game competitive is a skill gap. No skill gap = No competitive game. Anything that increases that gap is beneficial for competitive and anything that decreases the gap is detrimental to competitive. Giving people some form of mini-map first of all implies everyone has the same map, so it doesn't somehow create unfair situations out of the blue. It also doesn't remove stealth from the game, you can still hide in ink, you can still approach from behind, but it makes it appropriately more difficult.
Having a mini map in Splatoon actually decrease the skill gap between players if we follow your logic, since players have a lot more ease to localize themselves. Thus, we lose a decent part of thought-processing that goes into map control and situation awareness. Thought-processing and mindgames also add to the skill gaps and it's important, skill gaps aren't all about direct confrontation and movements.
Having a mini map in regular shooters is necessary, because sounds on their own aren't enough for players to localize non visible foes, it's confusing and it might slow down the pace of the game, or worse, games get stale. On the other hand, Splatoon has pretty visible ink bullets or trail going through the small map, you can see ink everywhere and eventually, it's not your team's ink, and that's probably not a good sign and this place is dangerous. That's basically your alternative to a mini map, and a smart alternative imo.

Stealth is completely pointless if you know an opponent has a good chance of being there in the first place. At least, without a mini map, you can sneak from behind setting yourself up crossing a wall, for example, and that'll possibly work because there won't be a mini map to reveal your plan since your potential target won't see ink being spread in his direction. This adds depth, and depth contributes in creating skill gaps, because the better player knows how to take advantages of options the other player might not expect.

If you are behind someone and you don't get a kill it is your fault and your fault alone. If they turn and get a kill on you, you screwed up and whether they turned because of a map or team communication or because their magic 8 ball told them too doesn't matter. What mini-maps help with are players camping or hiding or flanking. It makes it more difficult to do those things, which is good because it increases skill gap. It doesn't eliminate playing "smart and good" as you call it, it just makes you also have to have gunskill to earn your kills.
I don't know why you see flanking as a cheap option. I don't see why you must rely on a mini map to prevent being flanked. Actually I see why, it's just blatant lazyness when it comes to covering options.
To me, it just seems like you're the kind of player to whine when someone screws you as you didn't expect it, since the game doesn't clearly show the danger to you. That's just neglecting options, a lack of lucidity, not respecting the possible unfavorable outcomes you might face, even though every hints are shown to indicate you an hostile area, including being near a wall that might hide a player, who can possibly take you off guard a few seconds later.
Having a mini map in that case puts you way too safe. I kinda understand that you prefer direct confrontation, but again, not everything is about this.

Camping more than 10 seconds is useless in Turf war, you can just ignore a camper to focus on areas he or she doesn't cover, which is a lot since weapons range is limited in Splatoon, even for Charger weapons. A camper is definitely a deadweight for his team, and basically free turf to take all around the map.

Either a motion sensor within a radius, a mini map with ink or a mini map with shots registering would all add a simple extra layer to the game that would be beneficial to competitive play.
Good news for you, there's actually a secondary or special weapon that can localize foes for you and all your teammates. It's basically a temporary wallhack.

Again, i reiterate, it is largely due to the lack of voice chat that this problem might arise. No opportunity to give callouts online is silly and sucks for competitive because it greatly reduces your ability for map awareness. In other games the mini-map can fill part of the void, but not in splatoon.
I disagree, and I already said several times that Splatoon gives you all the visual hints to determine the situation on the map. I'd rather think not being able to acknowledge that is proof of lacking individual awareness. I find myself not having real issues dealing with all this, I always know where I must go, and what I should be aware of danger when approaching certains areas of a map, am I a genius or something ? Probably not.
I also do think the lack of voice chat in public rooms is not as essential and dramatic as overstated by some people, which seems to include yourself.
Serious players will always find a way to communicate with Skype, TS, Mumble or anything else like everytime. If Mario Kart players can, die-hard Splatoon players won't really have any problems dealing with this. The lack of voice chat is still very regrettable for those who really lack options on this matter though, not denying it.

If you still can't take these arguments, then there's no point in continuing this discussion with you, I won't change your mind, you'll still be pissed off by the lack of mini map, even though there's no real concern to have on this aspect, given you put enough efforts playing the game as it should be played.
We'll then just let the meta talk for itself once the game comes out. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom