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Ranked is a Stacker Machine.

Dessgeega

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Maybe you keep seeing the same comments from multiple people because they're points that should be considered. "Not every variable is in your control", and it never will be in online competitive gaming. You have to accept the element of chaos that is other people to play these games, that minor element of unpredictability which is why people play these games so much.

And yes, "attitude" will get you further than threads like this will. Everyone gets salty, sure, but comparing the game to a stacker machine? Come on man.
 

ZainreFang

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Maybe you keep seeing the same comments from multiple people because they're points that should be considered. "Not every variable is in your control", and it never will be in online competitive gaming. You have to accept the element of chaos that is other people to play these games, that minor element of unpredictability which is why people play these games so much.

And yes, "attitude" will get you further than threads like this will. Everyone gets salty, sure, but comparing the game to a stacker machine? Come on man.
"You have to accept the element of chaos that is other people to play these games, that minor element of unpredictability which is why people play these games so much." No choice but to. But in order to accept it, you have to acknowledge that it exists.
 

Akamia

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I don't see sufficient reason to believe the ranked mode of any game, Splatoon included, is comparable to a Stacker machine. Success at these games is almost entirely dependent on your skill (as well as that of your teammates) relative to the opposing team, connectivity variables notwithstanding.

Stacker machines, on the other hand, are actually rigged against the players. Sure, you can guarantee a minor prize if you're good enough; those are easy, but most people don't want the cheap prizes the minor prize tends to give out. The Major Prize is effectively a dice roll if you make it that far. It's how those prize machines make money. I actually detest those machines for that reason.
 

binx

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I'd like to say like several other wise people here, but it seems it would be useless as it doesn't get him anywhere. So instead, I have two things I want to say:

- It's an *online* ranking. It's not like an offline game (let's say mario one) where you can end the game at 100% and say "I've cleared it all". Basically, the best players (the ones who wins the most I should say) are getting the points. Their opponents are getting minus points. Not every player can be S+: to be an S+ you need to win more than most of the other players. If you can't, you can blame what you want, but it means you're not good enough.

- If you want to have the S+ level, it means you have to win with "somewhat weak" teams. It's the same for every rank. When you're A, you need more than 50% victory ratio to go A+. You don't need good teams, you just need to be strong enough to win with medium teams (you'll win with good teams and lose with bad ones anyway).

The problem is that you need too much. When you're with a medium team you consider it to be a bad team because it's convenient and explain everything. The truth is, if you're good enough, you can go from S to S+ with very few losses. I'm talking about myself, about some streaming players, about most of the best competitive players, about a teammate of mine.

Currently I'm in a war with my ISP, basically I don't have internet since I moves, 5 weeks ago. I had to find a way to play, so basically I share the connection from a mobile phone. I had a lot of disconnections (but it seems it's not only this, several players had them the last week). Because of this I went back to S30, losing lots of points from dozens of disconnections. But once the disconnections stop, I go back to S+ in less than one day. Because I don't need special teams.

You're talking about ratio and different ways of playing (aggressive, defensive, objective,...), but you probably have a more general problem. Like, being bad when pressured for instance, or dying unnecessarily at the worst times because of bad choices.

And before ending this, what would you say to a B- player saying the exact same thing than you? "I'm B- because my teams are bad, the game is screwing me up, I tried everything and I'm stronger than this actually". Would you say "you're right, I got to S because the game loves me more than you, but it doesn't love me enough to go S+"?
 

Dessgeega

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but you probably have a more general problem. Like, being bad when pressured for instance
Oh god, haha, I feel the need to comment on this. I know my faults and THIS right here is my number one problem, fighting when under pressure or ambushed and the like. If I ever got better at dealing with opponents playing peek-a-boo-you-die-now and kept my aim steady, I would become an UNSTOPPABLE GOD OF MURDER AND DEATH or you know, maybe I'd just get better at driving off/splatting people that interrupt my sniping and probably rank up accordingly :P
 

ZainreFang

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I don't see sufficient reason to believe the ranked mode of any game, Splatoon included, is comparable to a Stacker machine. Success at these games is almost entirely dependent on your skill (as well as that of your teammates) relative to the opposing team, connectivity variables notwithstanding.

Stacker machines, on the other hand, are actually rigged against the players. Sure, you can guarantee a minor prize if you're good enough; those are easy, but most people don't want the cheap prizes the minor prize tends to give out. The Major Prize is effectively a dice roll if you make it that far. It's how those prize machines make money. I actually detest those machines for that reason.
I just feel cheated when I put forth respectable efforts to keep things from going south, only to plummet quickly back down to A+ Rank once again (getting pretty good K/Ds in the process). The pattern usually is along the lines of 30>25>30>25>30>25>30>35>30>25>20>15>10.....

Happens over and over again. Nonetheless, the grind will continue.
 

Akamia

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Oh god, haha, I feel the need to comment on this. I know my faults and THIS right here is my number one problem, fighting when under pressure or ambushed and the like. If I ever got better at dealing with opponents playing peek-a-boo-you-die-now and kept my aim steady, I would become an UNSTOPPABLE GOD OF MURDER AND DEATH or you know, maybe I'd just get better at driving off/splatting people that interrupt my sniping and probably rank up accordingly :p
Kind of reminds me of my habits as a Mega Man main in Smash. I can fight pretty well – nowhere near StylesX2's level, but I hold my own – but when I get desperate during a match, my friend tells me I become the most generic Mega Man main ever. :P
 

ZainreFang

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I'd like to say like several other wise people here, but it seems it would be useless as it doesn't get him anywhere. So instead, I have two things I want to say:

- It's an *online* ranking. It's not like an offline game (let's say mario one) where you can end the game at 100% and say "I've cleared it all". Basically, the best players (the ones who wins the most I should say) are getting the points. Their opponents are getting minus points. Not every player can be S+: to be an S+ you need to win more than most of the other players. If you can't, you can blame what you want, but it means you're not good enough.

- If you want to have the S+ level, it means you have to win with "somewhat weak" teams. It's the same for every rank. When you're A, you need more than 50% victory ratio to go A+. You don't need good teams, you just need to be strong enough to win with medium teams (you'll win with good teams and lose with bad ones anyway).

The problem is that you need too much. When you're with a medium team you consider it to be a bad team because it's convenient and explain everything. The truth is, if you're good enough, you can go from S to S+ with very few losses. I'm talking about myself, about some streaming players, about most of the best competitive players, about a teammate of mine.

Currently I'm in a war with my ISP, basically I don't have internet since I moves, 5 weeks ago. I had to find a way to play, so basically I share the connection from a mobile phone. I had a lot of disconnections (but it seems it's not only this, several players had them the last week). Because of this I went back to S30, losing lots of points from dozens of disconnections. But once the disconnections stop, I go back to S+ in less than one day. Because I don't need special teams.

You're talking about ratio and different ways of playing (aggressive, defensive, objective,...), but you probably have a more general problem. Like, being bad when pressured for instance, or dying unnecessarily at the worst times because of bad choices.

And before ending this, what would you say to a B- player saying the exact same thing than you? "I'm B- because my teams are bad, the game is screwing me up, I tried everything and I'm stronger than this actually". Would you say "you're right, I got to S because the game loves me more than you, but it doesn't love me enough to go S+"?
"Pressure" situations basically define my losestreaks. Usually what happens is that my entire team dies, and it leaves me in situations where I have to find out how to kill the entire enemy team (while 70% of the map is covered by enemy ink) by myself. I don't like to jump into pools of enemy ink because 99% of the time you'll get shot from the side, so I usually take a slower approach, waiting until an enemy is in range to attack. My team will usually keep dying consistently through the game causing me to be the only one on the team by the end with a positive ratio and over 5 kills. This happens 5 or 6 times in a row causing my S Rank to be shaved off pretty quickly. I might need to pick up the Wasabi Splattershot and see if Splat Bombs can help with taking down multiple enemies in a quicker timeframe.
 

Award

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After about over 1000 hours of Splatoon playtime, I have come to this realization. Ranked is a Stacker Machine.

I've watched the videos. I've seen the strats. I've employed Offensive, Defensive, Support, and Objective Focused Roles. I've used all the weapons. I've gotten double digit K/Ds. I've avoided dying at all. None of these things will stop the constant losing streaks.

You notice that the developers are very concerned with keeping people playing the game? Well, Splatoon is designed with that in mind. I've noticed a pretty consistent trend of the matchmaking placing me in all around inferior teams, in terms of weapons and rank, leading to disproportionately long losing streaks. Consistently, i've seen a trend of my team being completely wiped at least 3 times a game. Why is this? Because the developers use the Ranking system as motivation for players to keep playing. They know that if players can reach S+, they will not have anywhere else to go. So the matchmaking creates a disadvantageous environment where it will put you on teams with the lowest kills/coverage/rank etc., in order to make it more likely you'll have to lose and try again. Some players are able to reach S+ because even if the chances of reaching S+ are low, they are still there. Just like how Stacker Machines still have a chance of winning. The fact is that Nintendo is a group of class-A video game designers, and as such, they know how to reach their development goals. In spite of all of these techniques,their design has grabbed me hook, line, and sinker. Kudos, Nintendo. I'll be there for another 4000 hours, hoping for that small chance i'll gain S+, just like you intended.
It's no secret around here that I've been involved in various topics trying to identify the inner workings of the matchmaking system for quite a long time. There are some very obvious signs and patterns that there's something not quite right with it, or that not all is as it seems, but though a number of us have tried, we've often fallen short in our assumptions - things didn't add up. For a while we presumed there was a simple Elo system in play and we were trying to explain the patterns through the randomness of Elo and how disastrious it woudl be applied to a team game with team scoring. But the way Elo would mess with the game don't seem to be applicable under closer observation. I no do not believe Elo is involved in any way, as W/L ratios would cause Elo to shift your standing and that doesn't seem to occur.

I'd considered the "stacker machine" idea that you put forth here. I don't believe that's quite it either, though I would NOT rule out that it is a component. Nintendo would have significant reason from a business AND a player experience standpoint of maintining the player base, and Nintendo is a master of fueling addictive behavior through gaming (video today, gambling yesteryear.) But as others here have said, if it were doing that it would make S and S+ more of a revolving door than it is. The players that get there and stay there and/or easily get back to it would not have such an easy time doing so if it were simply shifting people down to appeal to compulsive behavior (or at least not if doing so exclusively.)

I had also considered, and still don't rule out the potential that they were merely load balancing the limited population across the different ranks to ensure sufficient populations in each lobby. Again, that still might be a factor, but it doesn't explain some of the sudden swings.

Recently I believe I've made a breakthrough in understanding how things work. As I posted in the salt thread last week I had the interesting experience where, after a rotation change, I changed weapons to a midrange shooter from my usual chargers/brushes/rollers. As a result of not playing shooters much I was doing awful. With bamboozler I was going 13/6. With the shooter I was going 1/3, 3/5....I sucked...because it's not something I play. I was contributing fairly little. After 2 weeks of losing all too much and seeming fixated in A- (this is my 2nd alt) where I'd get to A-70 then lose to A-8 then A-70 then A-8 or thereabouts) suddenly I won EVERY SINGLE GAME all the way to A30. Most by KO. All while playing much WORSE than I had been due to using a weapon I'm largely unfamiliar with and never practice with the whole class.

Suck more, win more! Lead your team, lose. Contribute little, get carried by your team! Not quite. Then when I got to A the pattern resumed....win to 70, lose to 8, win to 70, lose to 8. Not always 70 and 8, but somewhere around that range. As others have observed it seems like it keeps trying to keep you in the rank you're in. That's commonly seen.

Now, the common thread here is "find ways to improve, if you're losing too much it's because you're contributing to the losses" blah blah, stuff that S+ ranked players around here can often point out. But what I've observed, is, in the losing streaks, I'm often the best at k/d on my team. I'm also the only one that seems focused on the objective at ALL. In the rounds i'm not the best k/d I'll have the teammate that went 12/10, I'll have the ones that went 9/6. But the catch is, in, say, Splatzones, while I was at the zone non-stop, I didn't see one of them, ever. I'd go 3/12 because I'd be divebombing the zone half the time, meanwhile my team was at the FAR corners in the side alleys in the enemy base. I'd watch them walk AROUND the enemy controlled zone....not to make a push from a different angle...but to simply go looking for foes to splat. Tower? Forget it. In such losing streaks I've seen horrible cases such as playing eliter on Moray. MORAY. I'd watch a blaster on my team on one of the little perches blast someone off the tower as it's parked right under his feet. Then ignore the tower and let it reset to mid. We spend half the game 98-40. The 2 points was me. Finally I gave up the sniping and just took up dedicated tower riding as the only player on my team willing to ride it. MANY of these games go 98-x. Or 100-x. NOBODY will ride the tower. Nobody will run the RM. So I become the dedicated rider/carrier. It really doesn't matter what weapon I play - I never use it, I spend the whole thing on the tower as the designated rider. As my team follws BEHIND the tower. But it doesn't matter. The 3 of them get wiped over and over and over anyway. Numerous RM rounds yesterday, I was the one that ran the RM. Didn't get KO but bot pretty darn far, teens/20's in Museum etc. I'd make the same run (alone with no escort of course) into the lead 2, 3 times a match. Push the lead further. Then in the last minute the team squanders the lead, slacks off, gets wiped during the enemy push. I can bail them out and kill the carrier once, twice, 3 times.....but eventually I'll falter...I'll get splatted first. And if I do, it's over, we lose the lead. So I did some experimenting. I took up krakon for a while. I just roamed around the edges and painted. Sure I splatted some foes when they came around. I chased them with a kraken a few times....but I didn't touch the RM at all. I didn't even help pop the shield. I didn't escort it. I stayed far away from it and did my own thing. MY W/L ratio was the same as if I'd participated! It didn't MATTER what I did - W/L was determined for me by the other 3. If I leave them on their own and don't try to carry them some of them seem to figure out they're on their own and THEY do it. The ones that don't are too bad to be carried anyway. The result is relatively similar. Then I was on a losing streak yesterday. Got to A+70-something or A+80 something 3 times yesterday. Then the losing streak down to A8. Then suddenly back to A80. On that winning streak to A80 I noticed that the tables were turned. My opponents had the trio of incompetents that I could slaughter over and over again and distract with the slightest feign....and one really good player that just couldn't carry them. 3 & 1. Always 3 bad and 1 good.

Now the above is not the CAUSE of the issues. It's the symptom. Watching the patterns, the types of team pairing which as you pointed out in your OP, the teams are AWFUL. The issue here is, it's not random. The losing streak where you are chained with bad players non-stop no matter the lobby. Random matchmaking can't work that way. It wouldn't be consistent. Then the winning streaks. Good players and/or bad opponents non-stop no matter the lobby. A few stray games here or there but generally it's continuous. random matchmaking, even broken matchmaking would not be so consistent in pairing all good or all bad players. This is intentional. There is no pattern to random matchmaking - this follows patterns.

My theory from all this and some extra data gathering not discussed in this text wall, in terms of the broad stroke of how ranked matchmaking works is thus: The ranking system does not work the way it makes you think it works. Most people here are assuming, it works as presented. That better players win more than they lose and can carry weaker teams and thus get more points and rank up. My theory is that's not accurate. Wins and losses are merely the tool used for allocating/removing points, but are not how your rank is determined. I believe your rank is determined behind the scenes, by invisible metrics gathering. If you are an A+ it's because the system has calculated you are an A+. It then hands you favorable team matchups or, at a minimum, doesn't interfere in your ability to win until you arrive at A+. Then once there it will hand you favorable/unfavorable matchups designed to keep you in that position it has determined is your real rank. If it recalculates that you're now an S, it will hand you favorable matches or stop restricting your ability to win through planned unfavorable matches until you arrive at S, then will return to alternating waves of favorable/unfavorable pairings to keep you maintained there. The reason the whole team is usually bad is because that whole team consists of players who have been slated to move down, likely against players who have been slated to move up. The more even hard contested matches are where all players are slated to stay in place. This facilitates the "losing streaks" from, say, upper A+ to mid to low A. It really rapidly moved you down a rank because the invisible system decided that you're now in that lower rank so it acted to quckly move you there....then keep you there until it decides you should move up or down.
This system makes sense in a lot of ways. It fits pretty much all the nonsensical holes and patterns that have been observed in matchmaking. it addresses the problem of how do you rate an individual players rank in a team scored game? Answer: You're not REALLY scored as a team, you're scored individually after all - the team score just distributes to points.) If this is true, this should also address the backlash from the S+ crowd who likes to say "if you're moving down it's because you're not doing well enough, don't blame your teammates etc, etc." There's some truth to what you guys are saying after all if this theory is true. It would mean your loss really IS because of your bad teammates, but also means the system INTENDED that to happen, they were the vehicle assembled to move you down with them to your new assigned rank, but that your new assigned rank was assigned to you based on the system's evaluation of your OWN skill - I.E. your teammates did not rob you, the system gave you the awful teammates because it decided the next lower rank is where you need to be moved to be in your right skill.

I.E. in that system, you're scored on your own merits, NOT your team wins/losses - the wins/losses are almost pre-determiend (when there's a wide skill gap) to make you win/lose to settle you in the "correct" rank for you based on your individual skill. So it really IS based on you and you alone. Not to say it's always correct of fair however (that's part 2.) To a degree it IS a single player game in terms of rank determination in this case.

So why is it the commentating, statically S+ players haven't experienced this? The ones with the "10 hours to S+ using only H3 Nozzlenose" videos? Simple. They're right, their skill earned them their spot. But not in the way they think it did in a way that's reasonable for them to comment on the effect on others. Whatever determines your rank calculated them as properly S+ early on. Therefore it presented them no undue resistance on their road to S+. That's not to say they didn't earn it through wins. They did. But they system didn't give them any stacked, rigged matches designed for failure to intentionally block them in S or A+ - it permitted them to advance naturally to S+ without forcing them down. But make no mistake, there ARE S+ players that the system reevaluates as S, or A+ and it WILL arrange similar bad matches to shove them back down. The ones who stay there have stayed within whatever parameters are used to determine rank.

If you are in S, and seem to be perpetually stuck in S with arranged losses to low S and arranged wins to high S. You probably have been determined by the system to be an S. Your'e not going to S+ (or A+) until it determines that you now belong in that bracket.

Now here's the trick and where it becomes unfair. What DOES it use to determine your rank? It's not k/d. As you pointed out playing as the top k/d in every lobby doesn't seem to move you ahead. Playing with trying not to get killed doesn't seem to reliably do it either. Neither does being the only one focused on the objective of the one who most often pushes it to the lead. So what DOES it use to calculate skill? I'm thinking it must be more metadata based. How many shots fired that landed hits, reaction times to events, things like that. more complex subtle things and without knowing what, there's no way to game the system, but there's also no way to work on what really affects it, too. The S+ players that tell you to get better obviously have the right responses built into their playstyle. Some of us who might be good players who can get results apparently do NOT have the right reactions built into our playstyles....so we confuse the system and it often doesn't know where to place us.

I'm no S+. Never have been, never will be. But the system can't seem to figure out if I'm S, A+, or A. Or B+ some days. It seems to shove me back and forth too often based on some random calculation. Considering in squads without artificially restricted teams I can do very well against S & S+ teams (or get shut out by others) I still believe in "real" skill I'm properly an S. But in terms of what the system MEASURES, and maybe lag affects it, I don't seem to always be according to how it counts (even when I'm leading the team.)

There's one other factor. The difficulty spikes. Yesterday struck again. The Sunday curse. Sunday afternoon suddenly it gets WAY more difficult. Or more specifically, it starts assigning me to lower ranks and forces me there through long series of unfavorable matchups. My suspicion is that your assigned "correct" rank is not a fixed value based on the data of the entire player base, but is basically using average values of the player base CURRENTLY ONLINE as the divisor. Thus, if many people jump online with much higher calculated skill relative to you on a given rotation or day, your relative rank is lower than it was 3 hours before when different people online - so you get forced down, only to get forced back up again a day or two later when the average ONLINE player skill is lower again. For the S+ folks at the top, your player skill is probably among the OVERALL top, so you never get forced down based on who is online.

The good news if this is all true is that your rank is NOT arbitrarily ruined by teammates. The bad news is the horrible appearance it gives, and possibly bad ratings for certain players with certain playstyles, leads to the intense frustration of seemingly undeserved losses and series of losses is built right into the system by the design of how it works.

But I am now quite convinced this is how it really works. Sadly I don't believe I'll ever figure out what metrics it actually uses to determine which rank you "should" be in.
 

Goolloom

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Jesus Christ, you went balls deep into that, Award.

To put it very blunt, going in ranked with such a mindset is probably the reason why many people won't ever make it to S+. Simple as that
I don't think any game dev would put the effort to track all of those things to make an overcomplicated matchmaking system to rig the matches.
 

Award

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Jesus Christ, you went balls deep into that, Award.

To put it very blunt, going in ranked with such a mindset is probably the reason why many people won't ever make it to S+. Simple as that
I don't think any game dev would put the effort to track all of those things to make an overcomplicated matchmaking system to rig the matches.
Actually MOST games track those kinds of "overcomplicated" things purely for the matchmaking. That was a topic that came up early on when we were debating whether the game (properly) used that type of system or simple Elo. The type of system that tracks tiny details like that is based on a Microsoft patent and is named TrueSkill. It's the system used by Halo, and many other competitive online games. Initially we'd ruled out that system based on an earlier glance at how the system worked and the patterns that emerged. The trouble with TrueSkill is that it's designed for matchmaking of 1v1 and FFA games, where its goal is to match players of similar skill characteristics at a macro level. It never seemed a good fit for Splatoon's team based play.

However we were at the time merely attempting to figure out why Splatoon's matchmaking was so BAD, we weren't viewing it from the angle that it might in fact be "good" but good at doing something other than what it presents itself as doing. When we assumed it was NOT using TrueSkill or a TrueSkill derivative (Nintendo likes doing everything in-house after all) (which is designed for multiplayer games) and instead was using Elo (designed for chess) we lamented that Nintendo was indeed cheaping out and not using a sophisticated system used by many other games. This theory turns that assumption on it's head by positing that the game does INDEED use a complex TrueSkill or TrueSkill-like system and uses it to creatively evaluate INDIVIDUAL performance just as it was designed to do. We just hadn't considered that your rank is determined based on that tracking, and that they "upended the teatable" by, instead of using TrueSkill to create matches, uses it to determined your rank and then creates matches to deliver you to that appropriate rank.

It creates bad optics for sure...but if it uses that...it's actually not a half bad system, so long as they can work on fixing the things that confuses it. Many have called for the game to rate you individually rather than as a team. Ironic if it's actually been doing that all along....but just falters sometimes in valuing a player. It's a somewhat DISHONEST system if that's what it does, but keep in mind the game, nor Nintendo ever did say that your rank is derived by win/loss ratios. We ASSUME that as we're intended to assume that based on the way points are allocated. But never did the game claim that's how ranks are determined.
 

ultra777

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On my alternate account while I was in S rank I was going up pretty easily. Then the rotation changed and the weapons I play suck at this rotation. I kept playing and went to a long lose streak and lost a good amount of points. I didn't blame my teammates, only myself because I know I'm bad at this rotation. Next day I played Splatoon and it was one of my favorite rotations. I won most of my matches and got to the high S rank. Then the next rotation was one I was also pretty good on and I got to S+.
 

Dessgeega

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Award wrote a 2700 word essay without really saying anything at all. That's impressive in it's pointlessness. Ever hear the phrase "less is more"?
 

TheChillyGuy

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If you really feel like your having losing streaks, just take a break and/or wait for a more favorable rotation. There is no special " Trick " to ranked. Just take breaks if your losing too much, k'?
 

Cuttleshock

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There's evidence on both sides, definitely, and if I were more of a statistician, I might try to analyse match results based on objective metrics (K/D, how overwhelming a win/loss is, how many small/middling/large pushes each team made) to see if it does seem improbable and hence somehow rigged. But as it stands, I really don't know - I want to believe that Splatoon wouldn't rig games in the manner that Award laudably describes it (I give him a Like out of respect for the work he's put in, not necessarily out of agreement).

If you don't think that Ranked is accurately assessing your skills at the game, I'd suggest finding a squad. Competitive or casual, as long as it's one that allows you to play Ranked with people whose skill level is reliable (whether good, mediocre or bad, at least not fluctuating), it should remove most undesirable factors outside of your control.
 

jsilva

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I think what Award has said, more so in his longer post, is important to at least seriously consider.

From the perspective of my own experience, testing, and some record taking, I think it makes sense to say the matchmaker influences game outcomes to achieve an end result—that is, to have players end up in the rank it believes they should be in, based on semi-sophisticated metrics it uses to determine player skill, and that it accomplishes this by skill imbalancing the teams. Also, it is not incompatible with my experience to say it fuels an addiction through losing and winning streaks.

Like several people have said, you need to focus on yourself. The attitudes shown in this thread will not get you to S+.
To put it very blunt, going in ranked with such a mindset is probably the reason why many people won't ever make it to S+. Simple as that
I have similar thoughts to Award and yet I have two accounts at S+... ;) I think though that you guys may be misunderstanding Award because of his frustration which is why you are seeing it as an issue of mindset.
 
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Goolloom

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I have similar thoughts to Award and yet I have two accounts at S+... ;) I think though that you guys may be misunderstanding Award because of his frustration which is why you are seeing it as an issue of mindset.
Yeah, it might be that. But I tell you, going in with a negative attitude in general does really affect your gameplay. Take my story for example, I hated Splat Zones to no end (and is still my least favorite mode to be honest). And I kept blaming the game mode that it doesn't work properly on my end to make the other team win and keep me in A/A+ forever, in a similar fashion on how some of you blame the whole game's matchmaking system for your losses.

No less than a month ago, I was convinced that I would be stuck in A/A+ forever because of Splat Zones and that it was the game's way of telling me ''screw you, you ain't getting to S!'' But instead of going in with a ''goddamn it, it's zones, I'm bound to lose again.'' I went in with more motivation and an overall positive attitude, and guess what, I made it to S+!

Have you watched this video from DUDE? (assuming you know who he is)
I watched it more than once, and I beleive the tips and tricks said in that video can help anyone that truly wants to improve.
 

EP2274

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I (mostly) agree with ZainreFang on part of this matter. The video I have just seen (above) is correct. Everything he says is true. The fact is though, that not all players think this way, and therefore, act in the wrong manner.
With today's Splat Zones session (around the time of posting), I've seen things in S rank I shouldn't even see. Whole teams going off individually into different parts of the map with no support, bad area control, and to top it all off, just bad combat skills.
Now, I'm not saying that I'm perfect at the game or something on the lines of that, but the fact is that the A+ ranking system is probably causing a good deal of these problems.
The A+ ranking system is a very bad system. You usually go up 10 points a victory and down 8 points for a defeat. This alone makes it so that people who shouldn't have been in S rank get back in. And yeah, it's probably so that if you get a losing you can get back to S rank, but in my opinion, it's broken.
And yeah, I would say the system is kindof a stacking machine. If you want to actually see your skill, then get a 4 or 2 player squad and do it that way.
Just keep in mind that some people are using new weapons or from A+ rank. We've all been there before. (Also Splat Zones is terrible :P)
 

binx

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As usual, Award likes to put lots of English words. I might die from this amount one day, as a poor French guy. Even though I write quite a bit myself.

Honestly, I think it’s kinda amazing. If I got what you meant, I kinda can’t do a single thing to prove you’re wrong, even though I still think you are. Because at first I thought “what if you gave your account to some strong guy, and see if he can go to S+ easily?”, but then by reading it whole, I understand you would just say the “hidden-system” would just see he is S+ quite fast and put him with good teams.

So, I still think it’s wrong, but what can I do to prove it… Well, I only have my own experience.

So, I’m an S+ player. I can be S+ and stay S+ with most shooters, probably rollers other than dynamo (I didn’t try them that much), most blasters, probably most sloshers. But there are a few weapons I can be S+ and not stay in with, and there is especially one weapon I know I’m S with. More precisely, S40 is the rank I’m stable in: E-Liter (classic with scope). Cause I’m “bad” with chargers.

So let’s say I’m S+80 with one of my best weapons. Your hidden-system must see me as strong (with some criteria we don’t know of), and then I pick the E-Liter. Normally the hidden-system should give me good teams, but how fast will it see I suck? Cause honestly I’ll go pretty fast to S40. Some wins here and there (I don’t know losing streaks personally, even with this weapon I always finally get a win. I’m especially good at keeping a won game… won). Does that mean this hidden-system can evaluate me with very few games? I don’t buy this. It’s way too hard.

Another point now, which I believe is pretty good. Let’s say I make a game, and I make a ranking system of my own, which evaluates a lot of things. And I rank guys based on that. But what if? What if someone who doesn’t do well by my criterias… still win A LOT? If that happens, I’m forced to consider he is something. He does something. He is strong by a way I didn’t anticipate. So what I’m saying is… Even if this hidden-system exists, it has to take the victories/losses into account. It can’t work without it. You can’t just say a guy is bad if he keeps winning anyway.

Now, why not taking only this? Personally I believe it would be more than viable, and easy. Plus for Splatoon, it’s kinda hard to “spy” actions of the players. The player has bad accuracy? Well, he was turfing and suppressing a lot, he is a support. The player didn’t move a lot? Still doesn’t mean he was bad. Didn’t kill a lot? Eh, so what, I played great games without killing much. Died a lot? He played objective. It’s fairly hard to evaluate the actions without human-intervention.

So anyway, even if there is a hidden-system, which I think is wrong as it’s complicated for nothing, just keep winning. Of course you’ll say you’re with bad mates, but then I’ll say give your alt to some S+ guy and I’m pretty sure he’ll go up fast enough.

My point of view: there three kinds of matches you can be in. 1 = your team is quite weaker than the other one ; 2 = quite stronger ; 3 = more or less the same level. In 1, you’ll lose most of the games anyway (or you’re making an alt), in 2 you’ll win most of your games anyway. So the only thing needed is to win in 3. And pro-tip: a normal team looks like a weak one actually.

I saw a lot of people complaining and basically saying (without even realizing it sometimes) “I’m better than my rank”. I believe this kind of feeling is born from the “I need to do everything” games. Like, you need to push the objective, you need to kill, you need to turf, you feel like you need to do everything. To be the guy on the tower (with the rainmaker) and the one protecting it, and so on. There are some games where your mates are so bad that indeed it’s what it looks like. But most of the times, you’re just to hasty. With more patience, you can slowly make the game better and better, and so obvious than even your “bad” mates will play what you want them to. It’s kinda hard to explain, but I would recommend anyone not to try so much to win, because it will do you harm on the long run.

I see someone talked about the DUDE, well, if you watch him enough, you’ll see that even when the game is hell and will end because the KO is near, he won’t just jump in expecting to kill everyone. He’ll stay calm, take a good decision, and if it doesn’t work he’ll just say “well I tried”. This attitude will make him play way better in a lot of situation, while jumping in (even if you succeed once) will make you think poorly of your teammates (“they made me do it”, “this is their fault I needed to try such a bad action and died for nothing”) and won’t change the result most of the time.

If you say your mates are bad, you’re implying two things: you’re better than them, obviously, and you are kinda better than the opponents too, as you’d win with a “normal” team. Then, don’t try impossible or hard things to compensate your supposedly bad mates. On the contrary, stay calm, fight only in areas you covered by yourself, only in advantageous positions. If you see a good time to make a push go for it, else wait the whole game if needed. If you *really* are better than your opponents, you should be able to calmly pick kills and wait for the good opportunity without ruining it all by trying to force the game. This is the kind of things that will make you salty, and some people will never get it. You can hear their story at any rank, too, not only A or S (or even S+).

Haha, I made it kinda long in the end… I wonder if Award and me have a kind of illness, forcing us to write lots of words. I hope some will read it. Sorry if the grammar isn’t great.
 

Akamia

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I'd considered the "stacker machine" idea that you put forth here. I don't believe that's quite it either, though I would NOT rule out that it is a component. Nintendo would have significant reason from a business AND a player experience standpoint of maintining the player base, and Nintendo is a master of fueling addictive behavior through gaming (video today, gambling yesteryear.) But as others here have said, if it were doing that it would make S and S+ more of a revolving door than it is. The players that get there and stay there and/or easily get back to it would not have such an easy time doing so if it were simply shifting people down to appeal to compulsive behavior (or at least not if doing so exclusively.)
I'd say the "Stacker Machine" idea falls (completely) flat in a very important way; in Stacker, it's literally you VS the machine's RNG, at least if you're really good enough to get to the prize that matters; most, if not all, prize machines of that nature do that. Crane games do it, Key Master does it... Pretty much every prize machine where a major, expensive prize (a 3DS, iPod, etc.) is at stake will do that; if you were previously unaware of this fact and are therefore skeptical, you can read the manuals for each of these things for yourself; the one for Stacker at least is available publicly online, all it takes is a Google search. I find it dishonest for a plethora of reasons, particularly in how these machines tend to advertise themselves, and have sworn off giving these machines my quarters and $1 bills for that reason. In Splatoon, there are very human elements besides you, and you really do have a decent shot at beating the other team if you're good enough; you're not at some malevolent Random Number God's mercy. The "Stacker Machine" idea really has no merit as an analogy for the situation.

I really have nothing to say about the rest of your post. I'm not in any position to critically evaluate it, or examine any evidence for or against it, as it's 3AM as I'm writing this, and I need to go to bed. :P Cheers.
 

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