Respectable Weapons

[Holidaze]

Disconnects man. Disconnects are so meta right now.

2 stronk.

 

[BlackZero]

People think certain weapons are OP simply because they haven't found a way to counter them. Once you figure out how to defeat a weapon, it isn't too bad. The best way to handle E-liters is to wait until they zero in on someone else, and harass them. With a Gal, you have a good chance of killing them. With anything else, you'll probably just drive them off. Either way, they aren't shooting at your team anymore.

I play defensively, which is a fancy way of saying I'm too lazy to push the attack unless I have to. I use the H.Splat and Gals mostly. I've been practicing with Splat Charger though.

The most dishonorable tatics currently involve burst bombs. You know when that bad sniper player throws 3 at his feet in hopes to kill you? Call it a versatile tatic but it is still barbaric. It's not interesting or difficult to pull off and whenever I have the chance to do it the only thought that goes through my head is ok I have to abuse this.

It's up to each player whether he wants to lose "honorably" or win by using every tool at his disposal. Moral superiority < tactical superiority, imo.

 

[Award]

Tentatek is a well balanced weapon capable of leading the attack in skilled hands. They give it to you early in the game, not because it's "scrubby" but because it's the most standard, utilitarian jack of all trades weapon in the game. They give you the all-purpose tools early and the highly specialized tools later on. You're not supposed to move on later on, it's just that more specialized variety is open to you later on. That's why splattershots are $500 and $2000G. To make sure everyone can play the "standard weapon" early. It's also the weapon in the solo campaign for a reason. I just find "standard weapons" kind of boring in a game where crazy options exist.

Jr. I respect anyone who can figure out the Jr. it's played by noobs, it's played at the highest competitive level. It's the only weapon in the game along with Hydra that I can't hit a darned thing with. I love close weapons. I play luna, I play carbon roller, I play Nozzlenose, I play sploosh. I'm great with close weapons. I cant hit a bloody thing with the darned Jr! IMO it's one of the hardest weapons in the game to kill with unless you're shooting a total scrub. They give it to you early because it's a great PAINTER, and because it makes little difference if you can aim it or not, not because it's easy to use to kill with. Even with disruptors!

I like what you said, but every time i use a weapon i like, i see tenteteks, bubblers, 96. gals riding my ***, then if i manage to escape them, i end up just getting sniped by some ***** charger, camping so hard i can smell them roasting marshmellows.

Of course the chargers are camping, what else are they going to do, lead an assault into an enemy base? Rollers, brushes, splooshes, etc also camp, though they camp differently. The best way to learn how to counter a weapon is to play that weapon. You can't understand it if you haven't played it. You get hit by .96 a lot? Play .96 for a while. Learn how it can be hard to land your two hits with the slow rate of fire and get outgunned at close range by faster weapons. Then you know how to go after .96s! Play chargers and learn how hard it is to steadily aim at a moving target, then you know how to avoid it. You probably can't kill the sniper. Few things kill snipers that are perched far away. But you can bypass him. or distract him. Or chase him off the perch.

There is almost no balance in the weapons... who would win, a tentetek or a bamboozler? the

Bamboozler has superior range, superior kill speed with an accurate player, and might have a splash wall of invincibility or a disruptor to keep the tentatek held at range. My vote is bamboozler every time between players of equal skill. If the bamboozler player can't hit a barn the TTK will probably win. The difference is the bamboozler can't rush into an enemy base unaware of of positioning and "figure it out on the fly." It needs a deliberate approach. The bamboozler user needs to figure out where the enemy is and how the attack will be approached before launching an attack. The tentatek can zoom around less prepared and figure it out upon seeing an enemy. Bamboozler has to be tactical, tentatek can go aggro and win by surprise bluster. Different weapon, different tactic, both deadly. Bamboozler can win 1v1 pretty easily if not unprepared.

With anything else, you'll probably just drive them off. Either way, they aren't shooting at your team anymore.

Not me. I will take my dishonorable burst balloons and run you down! ;)

I had a fun run on hammerhead. Some shooter, forget what one decided to take me off my center tower perch with killer wail, which I evaded and saw him proceed toward our spawn, flanking me. I dropped down the perch sped after him half way to the base and force fed him some well deserved balloons, hopped up on the perch back there and took out his team mate advancing from the next tower up. Who said eliter isn't a melee weapon? :D

The most dishonorable tatics currently involve burst bombs. You know when that bad sniper player throws 3 at his feet in hopes to kill you? Call it a versatile tatic but it is still barbaric.

Properly using beacons could be argued as more dishonorable than bomb subs. But the sub is how the weapon is meant to be used. The sub is part of the main weapon, that's the point of to versions of every weapon. If the unscoped eliter let you get so close he had to drop bombs at his feet, he probably didn't do well overall. If a scoped eliter let you get that close, well, that's what the bombs are for. He's lucky he saw you sneak up at all! True story, I was playing scoped eliter last week on Depot camping in the upper ledge on our side playing cat & mouse with an opponent below. After it was said and done and I decided to retreat I realized the entire platform I was on was covered in enemy ink. Somehow they came through while I was aiming, painted the whole thing, managed to not kill me, and I had NO idea any of this went on, I was so focused on my battle (And good job team, letting the enemy up the right hand side and flank me, while I had the whole left side covered by myself....Great work....)

You use splatterscope, right? I'm sure you use your splat bombs well (or use sprinklers as decoys....isn't that dishonorable? ;) )

The tactic I personally find more "dishonorable" than the above is intentionally charging your special the whole match to just spam it as your main weapon. I know that's a valid tactic....but so few people seem to play Krak-On roller, they just play Kraken and it comes with a free roller for charging it. That and an immediate rush to the enemy base to try to take it and camp it first thing in the game. Both of those just seem cheap. It's valid, but it's not really the back and forth battle that the game is supposed to be about. It's worse when it's a team strategy and suddenly 3 ink strikes open up over your base one after another like armageddon is unfolding.

 

[DekuKitty]

Before the 2.30 patch, I would have said Dynamos and the Krak-on roller in a heartbeat, but now I find all the weapons pretty balanced to an extent. Some weapons are more easy than others to get good with, but every weapon takes real skills to become great at, and although some weapons are widly accepted as better, you can pick up any weapon and do great with it if you practice.

 

[Elecmaw]

The game is fairly balanced atm and I definitely would have called out some weapons in the past.
The most dishonorable tatics currently involve burst bombs. You know when that bad sniper player throws 3 at his feet in hopes to kill you? Call it a versatile tatic but it is still barbaric. It's not interesting or difficult to pull off and whenever I have the chance to do it the only thought that goes through my head is ok I have to abuse this.

Here's a tip for you:

The moment you actively try to hunt an enemy who's hiding in enemy ink(As in, you're firing wildly at enemy ink while an enemy just squidded and is somewhere close to you) and you absolutely cannot see them anymore, your chances of winning the conflict are so astronomically small you're better off retreating. A good E-Liter knows this, and will hide when they see someone's coming. The moment you appear to hunt them down they'll pelt you with bursts untill you die from your sides/back, not because bursts are a good main offensive weapon mind you, but because they caught you off guard while you were thinking you caught them off guard. It's not just exclusive to E-Liters as a good splatterscope user will try to trap you with Splat Bombs instead, but they can just as easily spam panic shots in your face.

You cannot expect to try to flank a player and expect a free splat for your effort, you have to be far more careful when you ran up behind them and you can't see them anymore.

 

[Drip Bam Boozle]

You use splatterscope, right? I'm sure you use your splat bombs well (or use sprinklers as decoys....isn't that dishonorable? ;) )

There are a ton of degenerate tatics with sub weapons that shouldn't garner much respect. The burst bomb the ground tactic in particular is among the easiest and It puts both players on a timer. No accuracy involved. And the other player basically has to retreat because there is no nuance to dodging AOE explosions.

It's up to each player whether he wants to lose "honorably" or win by using every tool at his disposal. Moral superiority < tactical superiority, imo.

Yeah, no one is arguing that. Just whether or not you should respect a player for the way he/she is playing. Some tactics have merit and reflect a players skill clearly and some any old nooby could do.

Here's a tip for you:

The moment you actively try to hunt an enemy who's hiding in enemy ink(As in, you're firing wildly at enemy ink while an enemy just squidded and is somewhere close to you) and you absolutely cannot see them anymore, your chances of winning the conflict are so astronomically small you're better off retreating. A good E-Liter knows this, and will hide when they see someone's coming. The moment you appear to hunt them down they'll pelt you with bursts untill you die from your sides/back, not because bursts are a good main offensive weapon mind you, but because they caught you off guard while you were thinking you caught them off guard. It's not just exclusive to E-Liters as a good splatterscope user will try to trap you with Splat Bombs instead, but they can just as easily spam panic shots in your face.

You cannot expect to try to flank a player and expect a free splat for your effort, you have to be far more careful when you ran up behind them and you can't see them anymore.

Yes, I understand how to deal with the tactic. Which is to hopefully avoid triggering the event, but youre incredibly undermining how offensive this tactic can be and what an easy alternative it is at mid to close range. It is the closest thing to a kamakazi tactic in this game. Most people in online videos game and real life don't have respect for anything resembling a suicide attack.


Imagine if you were trying to get your friend into splatoon and he/she's been critical of it in past. That is the absolute last thing you probably want them to experience. It is the worst example of Splatoon's general gameplay. IMO of course.

<---- YOUR FRIEND

 

[ThatsSo]

Probably the worst post I've ever read

 

[Drip Bam Boozle]

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Again, how is using the only CQC weapon in your arsenal something that is deserving of disrespect? So any time someone pops off a Kraken or Bubbler when you think you've gotten the upper hand is that also something deserving of disrespect? Just curious.

Also, I'd just tell my friend to try and refrain from being a punk, putting it lightly.

 

[BlackZero]

Not me. I will take my dishonorable burst balloons and run you down! ;)

That's too much work. Also, any halfway competent Charger will drop a splat bomb at their feet and bolt. If you chase after them, you might eat a grenade.

Yeah, no one is arguing that. Just whether or not you should respect a player for the way he/she is playing. Some tactics have merit and reflect a players skill clearly and some any old nooby could do.

If something works, who cares? It's also cheap for a .96 Gal to two-shot enemies and outrange most weapons in the game. Does that mean we should dump on Gals? Nah, you just find ways to counter them. If it's a noob trick, it shouldn't be hard to do.

 

[Award]

There are a ton of degenerate tatics with sub weapons that shouldn't garner much respect. The burst bomb the ground tactic in particular is among the easiest and It puts both players on a timer. No accuracy involved. And the other player basically has to retreat because there is no nuance to dodging AOE explosions.

LOL, you make it sound so easy....if using burst bombs were that powerful my k/d with eliter would be way better than it is ;) The reality is it actually does take skill to do it right. And I'm in definite need of acquiring more of that skill! I'm still kind of "meh" with burst bombs. I have some great instant replay moments, but I also have more than enough empty splats, missed AoE that would have taken a 5th bomb to hit (and I had no ink) etc.

And if AoE were so easy to use effectively, blasters would be the ultimate noob weapon. Instead they're a high skill floor weapon.

Again, how is using the only CQC weapon in your arsenal something that is deserving of disrespect? So any time someone pops off a Kraken or Bubbler when you think you've gotten the upper hand is that also something deserving of disrespect? Just curious.

I understand where @Drip Bam Boozle is coming from somewhat with being annoyed at cheap tactics or disrespectable strategies. I can't wholesale disagree with his premise. The Krakens and Bubblers are my pet peeves. I think that's a lot more cheap than bombs that you do actually have to aim like a blaster with an arc (that you only have 2-4 shots of.) It's frustrating to assess the field, line up an attack, only to have the terms of battle change by bubblers popping up. Lag makes it worse. I can't overstate how many times I've cornered an opponent, am shooting right at him, nothing happens while I'm shooting 4 shots of a 1-2kho weapon at him and nothing happens, and suddenly they become a kraken and I'm splatted, indicating they were already a kraken before I even shot at them but the lag never told me it happened. (Similar to getting sniped by an eliter that was aiming somewhere else.) At times I think the specials break the game. They add strategy on one hand, but on the other, it stops being a fair competition of using the 70-some weapons in the game when it comes down to who can spam the same 3-4 specials the most. But it's like the blue shell in Mario Kart - it's part of the design, it's annoying, it's cheap, it's unfair, but it's part of how the balance of the game was designed.

I just personally disagree that sub+main weapon can count as cheap. The specials break things in some cases, but the sub+main is a part of the careful balancing and the reason for the slow release of weapons, and the reason for the duality of weapons with how it changes playstyle. It's an unusual concept in a shooter that "the weapons" is its combination of main+sub and the combination changes how you play it. I don't think you can separate the pairing. Lobbing grenades, decoys (sprinklers), firing mortars, and sometimes suicide missions (including sacrificing a warship & crew to hold a position, storming Normandy, etc.) have been part of even "honorable" conventional warfare in the real world since each has existed.

So I agree with DDB's concept, but disagree with the specific cause of ire. of all the subs, none of the grenade/bomb types are the one's I'd consider cheap. Sprinkler decoys can be deadly, but are very hard to pull off convincingly. Disruptors are probably the cheapest, and yet there not all that different from flashbang grenades in SF & even SWAT operations for both lethal & non-lethal disabling of a target. Beacons can be cheap, effectively spawning right in the enemy base. yet they're advertised on the map. I hate those things, but it's hard to blame the game since it lights up where they are for me. it still catches me unaware though.

 

[Award]

That's too much work. Also, any halfway competent Charger will drop a splat bomb at their feet and bolt. If you chase after them, you might eat a grenade.

Yeah, I'm like that. Most of my teammates think getting on the tower and grabbing the rainmaker is too much work too...but I'll do it :p

Well there was 1:00 on the match and my only options were bolting to a location with a worse vantage point for watching for attack, or waiting where I was and waiting for the inevitable ambush by the guy that just flanked me. Flaking him was the better bet. Hammerhead doesn't give a lot of options to relocate when the enemy is in front AND behind.

 

[BlackZero]

They add strategy on one hand, but on the other, it stops being a fair competition of using the 70-some weapons in the game when it comes down to who can spam the same 3-4 specials the most. But it's like the blue shell in Mario Kart - it's part of the design, it's annoying, it's cheap, it's unfair, but it's part of how the balance of the game was designed.

Kraken is very easy to counter. Just swim away or superjump. They are much slower than you, and I've been able to avoid them long enough for their special to run out many times. If you can, lure them into a huge patch of your team's ink so that they trap themselves when their special runs out. If they're smart, they won't do that. If they aren't, just cover their ink trail so that they're trapped. Either way, you've made them either waste their special, or punished them for using it.

Bubbler is the same thing: just avoid them. If you can, lure them into a spot where they screw themselves when their Bubbler expires. Otherwise, just stay away from them. Let them push ahead, then drive them back with a counterattack or flank.

People, 90% of the specials in this game are easy to counter if you just run away when you see one trigger. Seriously, learn how to run away. It's one of the most important skills you can develop.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

People, 90% of the specials in this game are easy to counter if you just run away when you see one trigger. Seriously, learn how to run away. It's one of the most important skills you can develop.

This was more so my point. Just because something stops you from going face first into battle doesn't make it automatically a "cheap tactic". It's just a tactic. If you're getting bombarded by Burst Bombs, that's your own doing. You got too close to something you shouldn't have and you weren't sneaky enough. I throw Burst Bombs that don't kill all the time, you know why it doesn't kill? Because they know when to get the hell away from me. Don't chase the dude, clearly he's going to come out on top. Wait for him to throw his 4, and then try and get him.

You can't get upset and declare something "cheap" because something didn't go the way you wanted it to. Think about things before you go balls to the wall.

 

[Drip Bam Boozle]

Man this thread is bumping.

I don't have much else to say about it. Next time you or I see this tactic we will certainly be thinking about this thread. I really think it's bordering that line of cheese tactics, but not quite there. And I want to be clear I'm not trying to make up a pejorative term to describe this.

 

[Award]

Kraken is very easy to counter. Just swim away or superjump. They are much slower than you, and I've been able to avoid them long enough for their special to run out many times. If you can, lure them into a huge patch of your team's ink so that they trap themselves when their special runs out. If they're smart, they won't do that. If they aren't, just cover their ink trail so that they're trapped. Either way, you've made them either waste their special, or punished them for using it.

Bubbler is the same thing: just avoid them. If you can, lure them into a spot where they screw themselves when their Bubbler expires. Otherwise, just stay away from them. Let them push ahead, then drive them back with a counterattack or flank.

People, 90% of the specials in this game are easy to counter if you just run away when you see one trigger. Seriously, learn how to run away. It's one of the most important skills you can develop.

Oh, I'm not saying I don't run from them and do exactly as you describe 90% of the time. I get annoyed by the ones that pop out right when I'm landing the attack, but I'll also acknowledge lag is the bigger infuriator. Too many times they go kraken/bubbler *AFTER* I should have splatted them, only for them to turn around and splat me. I.E. I run up to you, slap you 3x in the face with a roller, you just stand still in one place, I turn to retreat, then I hear the "bling" sound and am splatted by you as a kraken. If it showed me the kraken BEFORE I attacked you I could have run instead of it letting me close in, attack and then find out that you weren't even there to begin with. When it's not lag induced, yes, I do as you do, and usually splat the kraken/bubble wielder.

But the one I find really annoying is when there's a pair of krakens incoming into the base. I generally don't get splatted by the one, or even by the two. But most of the time I've seen the tactic, especially on Piranha where they can just charge up specials over and over, every time you see them, they're bubbled, or when there is one or more specials incoming to our base at the same time with the full team with them. When the special comes you have no choice but to retreat. And once you do they've secured the spawn and it's virtually impossible to gain it back with that much territory in TW at least (haven't played Piranha ranked). I think I have Piranha specifically in my mind when I complain about this, now that I think about it. I don't have this problem on other maps nearly as much. It may be more of a map exploit than a specials exploit. And seems to be a tactic mostly of A+ and beyond players.