Savescuming: Why it's the worst thing ever... other than you know, murder and well, lots of things.

[Jugglec]

First off, savescuming for gear is fine. I think the lottery based gear system is lame and does nothing more than teach kids to gamble, so working around that does not bother me. I still haven’t done it but that’s just cause I’m lazy and my gear is good enough.

Savescuming for rank however is terrible and here’s why. It allows you to count only your wins and not your losses to achieve the highest rank you want. All you have to do is put in the time. Even the worst players will win a match eventually. So a player that may really be an A or B can be S+99 if they put in the time. I use to think this was a personal thing. Well, some people “cheat” to get their rank but I don’t, so this does not affect me. No, this affects all of us. Because now when I’m in an S+ lobby I have to worry about being put on a team with players of lower skill level. When I lose my rank goes down, but when they lose, they can just scum it away. What’s worse when I win I may have only won because I was playing against scumers, making my wins and therefore my rank less valid. So, just the fact that some people are doing it makes all our ranks less of a true measure of skill.

It’s very much like an economy. There are only so many rank points to go around. When a match ends the winners get points and the losers lose points so the total points that exist stays about the same. But when scumers erase losses that, in effect, creates more rank points. It’s much like when the Fed makes more money and pumps it into the market. The effect is that all money then has less value and you get inflation. We are in a situation where scumers are pumping the game full of rank points that devalue all rank points and causes rank inflation. So while I may be S+, I have to wonder how valid that is because if we all scumed we could all be S+ at the same time.

If the game saved our rank on the cloud we could avoid this. That would be nice, but I don’t expect it to change any time soon. My only hope of writing this is to get people to realize that scuming up your rank is bad for the whole game and anyone who does it deserves a bad stigma. Rant over.

 

[Jugglec]

I'm going on a screen-less, tech free vacation for a week, so I will not respond to any comments on this thread for the next 7 days. I will join in the conversation after that though. Sorry to post and run.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Came in here preparing my fingers for a longwinded post. . . Glad you put that clarification in the very first sentence. Otherwise, I completely agree with you. Savescumming for rank is absolutely trashy. Your ranking is nothing more than a letter displaying the possibility you've gotten paired with good teams. I mean, I've seen some terrible S ranked players. People take it too serious, much like Splatfests.

 

[Smashling79]

Yeah I agree. It makes me sick thinking of all the bad players posting on miiverse asking for help from the pros to reach S rank with no effort at all.

 

[Aristeia]

Same...I got to S on my own hard work (not there currently, lol). I personally get frustrated when I lose rank, but I also understand the subjectivity of it. Really what I get frustrated with is bad decision-making...as in why the hell are there S players still Super-Jumping without Stealth Jump repeatedly into the middle of the battlefield? Lol stinkin' scummers.

 

[SupaTim]

Is that why A- seems more competitive than S?

 

[Hero of Lime]

Definitely agree regarding the scumming for rank. I got to S+ naturally, and it was super tough. Knowing that others did so just by constantly reloading old saves is pretty annoying. Losing points always sucked, but that's part of the deal. If you want a high rank, you gotta work for it, even if it means losing a rank due to having lame teammates, or mismatched team weapon loadouts.

Of course I do save scum for abilities, even doing so does not mean I get the ability spread I want. It's all still random. You can be rerolling for hours and still not get the desired abilities you want.

 

[Smashling79]

Definitely agree regarding the scumming for rank. I got to S+ naturally, and it was super tough. Knowing that others did so just by constantly reloading old saves is pretty annoying. Losing points always sucked, but that's part of the deal. If you want a high rank, you gotta work for it, even if it means losing a rank due to having lame teammates, or mismatched team weapon loadouts.

Of course I do save scum for abilities, even doing so does not mean I get the ability spread I want. It's all still random. You can be rerolling for hours and still not get the desired abilities you want.

I dont really pay much attention to the sub abilities on clothes unless its 3 in a row of something. I just worry about the main ones.

 

[lostleader]

Wow people do that. What a bunch of jokers.

 

[jsilva]

Why is savescumming for gear ok? Only a minority of people will do it, so in making the gear better that person gains an advantage over other players who don't have 'lucky' rolls (a small advantage but enough of one to merit the effort of it).

I personally don't think savescumming for either is ok, but at least doing it for rank doesn't give that person any advantage over other players...

Also, I suspect when we see bad S/S+ players they're possibly just having an off game/day. I know that happens to me, as I embarrassingly look at my K/D ratio of 1/10 and try and make myself feel better by saying 'Well at least I splatted the dude with rainmaker at the end right before they got the lead' :)

 

[Deleted Member]

Mental gymnastics. That's why.

 

[Your Wii]

Hard work is always satisfactory. Those who scum for rank should be ashamed of themselves. Honestly. Ever heard on integrity?

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Why is savescumming for gear ok? Only a minority of people will do it, so in making the gear better that person gains an advantage over other players who don't have 'lucky' rolls (a small advantage but enough of one to merit the effort of it).

I personally don't think savescumming for either is ok, but at least doing it for rank doesn't give that person any advantage over other players..

Because that "advantage" is entirely luck based. So is it fair if someone rolls exactly what they want but without the use of savescumming? They are still at that same "advantage"? Should they reroll to not be at an "advantage" so it's all nice and fair for everyone? We aren't going into the games code and forcing it to be what we want it to be. We spend hours, even days, rolling for the gear we want. Something that could take Months on top of Months. It does not put us at any "advantage" it simply saves time and money. Because regardless whether I could save scum or not, I'm going to try and roll for the abilities I want.

Also scumming for rank also puts you in a rank you should not be in, thus hindering those of us that got to said rank without the use of scumming, therefore, causing losses, knockouts, etc. I think it's pretty clear why scumming for Rank is far more detrimental than scumming for gear.

 

[jsilva]

Because that "advantage" is entirely luck based. So is it fair if someone rolls exactly what they want but without the use of savescumming? They are still at that same "advantage"? Should they reroll to not be at an "advantage" so it's all nice and fair for everyone? We aren't going into the games code and forcing it to be what we want it to be. We spend hours, even days, rolling for the gear we want. Something that could take Months on top of Months. It does not put us at any "advantage" it simply saves time and money. Because regardless whether I could save scum or not, I'm going to try and roll for the abilities I want.

Also scumming for rank also puts you in a rank you should not be in, thus hindering those of us that got to said rank without the use of scumming, therefore, causing losses, knockouts, etc. I think it's pretty clear why scumming for Rank is far more detrimental than scumming for gear.

I understand what you're saying, but how many people are getting 'perfect' rolls not using savescumming so that others feel like they're at a disadvantage and need to remedy it by savescumming? I don't think it's a widespread problem in search of a solution. Instead, what I have seen is players with an identical main and three subs for each gear item. That's hardly a fair solution to a very small problem in practice, and instead creates a new problem.

And personally I think there is a certain charm to being excited with your random positive roll, knowing the limitations.

As far as people being in a rank they don't deserve to be in, I don't see that as a big problem. It assumes there are enough rubbish players savescumming to be concerned about it. If it were entirely a case of someone not being good but being an S+ in rank, they'd be losing more games than winning (overall) and would be constantly saving and reloading their save file. That seems really tedious, really tedious, and while I wouldn't put it past some people to do it I also think it's probably a minuscule percentage of people actually playing who are willing to go to that effort.

What we probably see more of with savescumming in rank is players who are good and can more or less hold their own, but want to avoid undeserved losing streaks or would rather just erase a series of losses that made their rank progress hindered. Yes they are probably not as good as those that went through the process naturally, but I doubt it's a serious issue in need of concern.

Nintendo should certainly make it so that savescumming isn't possible, though...

 

[Elecmaw]

I understand what you're saying, but how many people are getting 'perfect' rolls not using savescumming so that others feel like they're at a disadvantage and need to remedy it by savescumming? I don't think it's a widespread problem in search of a solution. Instead, what I have seen is players with an identical main and three subs for each gear item. That's hardly a fair solution to a very small problem in practice, and instead creates a new problem.

And personally I think there is a certain charm to being excited with your random positive roll, knowing the limitations.

As far as people being in a rank they don't deserve to be in, I don't see that as a big problem. It assumes there are enough rubbish players savescumming to be concerned about it. If it were entirely a case of someone not being good but being an S+ in rank, they'd be losing more games than winning (overall) and would be constantly saving and reloading their save file. That seems really tedious, really tedious, and while I wouldn't put it past some people to do it I also think it's probably a minuscule percentage of people actually playing who are willing to go to that effort.

What we probably see more of with savescumming in rank is players who are good and can more or less hold their own, but want to avoid undeserved losing streaks or would rather just erase a series of losses that made their rank progress hindered. Yes they are probably not as good as those that went through the process naturally, but I doubt it's a serious issue in need of concern.

Nintendo should certainly make it so that savescumming isn't possible, though...

I personally really wished rolling had a cosmetic effect over one that actually distributes your perks. This way people can still feel happy about getting something rare while people don't have the frustration of getting saddled with a bunch of useless buffs for their main.

And also, if you happen to rank up from S to S+ it still takes 6 losses at least to de-rank back to S, which is a lot.

 

[Nihabz]

Savescumming whether you like it or not is imperative if you want perfect gear due to the reroll system being completely broken and unreliable.

 

[BlackZero]

Savescuming for rank however is terrible and here’s why. It allows you to count only your wins and not your losses to achieve the highest rank you want. All you have to do is put in the time. Even the worst players will win a match eventually. So a player that may really be an A or B can be S+99 if they put in the time. I use to think this was a personal thing. Well, some people “cheat” to get their rank but I don’t, so this does not affect me. No, this affects all of us. Because now when I’m in an S+ lobby I have to worry about being put on a team with players of lower skill level. When I lose my rank goes down, but when they lose, they can just scum it away. What’s worse when I win I may have only won because I was playing against scumers, making my wins and therefore my rank less valid. So, just the fact that some people are doing it makes all our ranks less of a true measure of skill.

Welcome to random online matching. You are going to get people who actually have skill and you're going to get people who cut corners. You're better off playing in a squad or with friends where you know you're going to have good teammates who are in your league. Complaining about randoms is like pissing in the ocean: you might feel better, but it doesn't change anything.

It’s very much like an economy. There are only so many rank points to go around. When a match ends the winners get points and the losers lose points so the total points that exist stays about the same. But when scumers erase losses that, in effect, creates more rank points. It’s much like when the Fed makes more money and pumps it into the market. The effect is that all money then has less value and you get inflation. We are in a situation where scumers are pumping the game full of rank points that devalue all rank points and causes rank inflation. So while I may be S+, I have to wonder how valid that is because if we all scumed we could all be S+ at the same time.

Eh, I don't think that follows. Save scumming is like any other ranking exploit used in online shooters or power-leveling used in MMOs. People can brag about their level, but they haven't developed the skills or strategy necessary to perform on that level. They aren't devaluing ranks: they're flooding them with incompetents. Again, this is why squads/guilds/clans emerged: people got tired of dealing with other players who exploited their way up the ladder. They put themselves in an environment where they didn't have to deal with those people. If you don't want to deal with these people, surround yourself with serious players and play with them. Join a group and leave randoms behind.

If the game saved our rank on the cloud we could avoid this. That would be nice, but I don’t expect it to change any time soon. My only hope of writing this is to get people to realize that scuming up your rank is bad for the whole game and anyone who does it deserves a bad stigma. Rant over.

Feel better? I think you're preaching to the choir.

 

[Roger1954]

How do you savescum for gear? Id like to know

 

[SquiliamTentacles]

How do you savescum for gear? Id like to know

Get a USB drive and transfer your save (with a ton of cash/sea snails) to it. Roll your gear, and if you are not satisfied with what you ended up with, just reapply the old save and try again. I don't know too much, but that's the gist of it.

Back on topic, rank is supposed to be an indicator of skill level, to help match you with similarly skilled opponents. Savescuming for rank basically makes higher ranks less valuable, and throws off the balance. S+ is supposed to be a incredibly hard to reach rank for people to work towards, and the lower-caliber savescumers just make it less of a challenge. And even if you get to a higher rank by savescuming, is there really a benefit? Chances are, an unskilled player will lose more than they win in the high ranks, meaning not only they will not make more money by playing but force them to delete their saves whenever they lose if they want to keep rank. Seems too complicated for little payout.

I think Savescuming for gear, though, is a totally different story. I don't savescum personally, but gear rolls are entirely luck based. Savescuming gear would actually make the meta more balanced, as everyone would have good odds to get ideal gear with enough time.

 

[Roger1954]

Get a USB drive and transfer your save (with a ton of cash/sea snails) to it. Roll your gear, and if you are not satisfied with what you ended up with, just reapply the old save and try again. I don't know too much, but that's the gist of it.

Back on topic, rank is supposed to be an indicator of skill level, to help match you with similarly skilled opponents. Savescuming for rank basically makes higher ranks less valuable, and throws off the balance. S+ is supposed to be a incredibly hard to reach rank for people to work towards, and the lower-caliber savescumers just make it less of a challenge. And even if you get to a higher rank by savescuming, is there really a benefit? Chances are, an unskilled player will lose more than they win in the high ranks, meaning not only they will not make more money by playing but force them to delete their saves whenever they lose if they want to keep rank. Seems too complicated for little payout.

I think Savescuming for gear, though, is a totally different story. I don't savescum personally, but gear rolls are entirely luck based. Savescuming gear would actually make the meta more balanced, as everyone would have good odds to get ideal gear with enough time.

So you make a copy, play the copy, and if you dont get what you want, delete it the copy, and copy from the original and repeat?